Today Michael Shanks revealed that he was to be a series regular in Martin Gero’s fourth Stargate series. With that cat out of the bag, we wanted you to have additional context, along with David’s thoughts.

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Timecodes
0:00 – Opening Credits
0:30 – Michael Shanks Was Going to Be in SG4
2:30 – How David Found Out
3:49 – BC-307, the Argo
5:19 – SG4 Was Set in an Alternate Reality
9:42 – William’s Thoughts on the Premise
11:30 – The First Season Could Have Been Just the Beginning
12:27 – How Much Would SG4 Have Cost?
13:43 – Michael Shared This Information at Stargate Ascension Convention
14:58 – Amazon Didn’t Think SG4 Would Appeal to New Fans
16:13 – Several Original Cast Members Were Expected to Return
16:56 – There’s More to Unpack About This Premise
19:13 – The Original Vision for the Franchise May Never Be Told
22:02 – Michael’s Very Passionate
23:00 – Why Having Daniel in SG4 Made Perfect Sense
23:56 – Upcoming Dragon Con
26:00 – Thank You, William
26:26 – Post-Interview Housekeeping
30:56 – End Credits

***
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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Welcome, everyone, to Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. I’m David Read, and I’m here with my broski, William Murphy. How are you, buddy?

William Murphy:
Hey, how are you doing?

David Read:
I’m all right. I just told you I didn’t expect to have this on my bingo card this morning.

William Murphy:
[inaudible]

David Read:
Michael Shanks was going to be in the fourth Stargate series. I just revealed that to you about half an hour ago, didn’t I?

William Murphy:
Yes.

David Read:
What do you think about that?

William Murphy:
I have a lot of questions, feelings, emotions. It makes sense. First off, it’s well-earned. I’m happy that anything that Michael gets involvement with, and we get to see more of him, is great. But as far as the character goes and not only his growth but going back to his original role in the feature film, he was that critical protagonist/the audience’s vehicle into this new and fantastic world. Even as eminently qualified as the character was. And every appearance he’s had, even on the subsequent entries into the franchise, he’s always had that element to him. Even in his brief appearance in Atlantis and then briefer still in Universe, but he’s always been that gateway, no pun intended. So, it makes perfect sense, checking every box that they would wanna include that character again.

David Read:
I had always hoped that there would’ve been involvement from some of the cast. Let me go ahead and preface this right here. Let me tell my story, and then let the new information slide into place.

William Murphy:
Appropriate for the History Project.

David Read:
Exactly right, and I didn’t want to do it alone. So, I really appreciate you being here with me in case I …

William Murphy:
It’s a privilege. Thank you for having me.

David Read:
… decide to set myself on fire. I’ve known about this for some time now. I have not read any of the scripts for the new series. Michael approached me in early to mid-July, wanting to partner for a podcast. And I went to a couple of my contacts inside of MGM, and I said, “OK. Before I have my meeting with him, there are certain pieces of information that I would like to know.” They were like, “OK.” And I said, “Was Michael going to be involved in the new show?” And they said, “Yes. He would’ve been a series regular.” BC-307 U.S. Air Force vessel Argo appears in Earth orbit. I don’t know the status of her crew. I think that they may be dead, so that’s not verified. But who is aboard is Daniel. USS Argo, so that’s a BC-307. The Daedalus would’ve been old at this point.

William Murphy:
Dave, real quick. Some folks in chat are asking for you to up your volume a little bit.

David Read:
Mine? All right.

William Murphy:
Yes. At least compared to mine. I don’t wanna interrupt your flow here. This is intriguing information.

David Read:
Just a second here.

William Murphy:
It’s the fun of live broadcasts.

David Read:
All the settings have been recently tweaked, so I’m trying to figure things out. I do appreciate everyone for bearing with me here.

William Murphy:
So, while you’re tinkering with that, the 3-0-X series is the class of vessel.

David Read:
Yes.

William Murphy:
It’s not individual ships.

David Read:
So, it would’ve been a BC-307, the Argo.

William Murphy:
That’s three generations past the Daedalus class. That’s incredible.

David Read:
I can’t be positive, but I believe he may have been the only survivor of the Argo. This is an alternate reality. The show is to be set in an alternate universe. So, I always pictured it somehow like the Kelvin timeline. More than half a dozen cast were expected to return in a recurring or guest star capacity before the end of Season One. Most of these would’ve been characters that people wanted to see. But this didn’t get the green light. So, it’s such a crying shame. I had mixed feelings about finding out that this was not going to be our reality. But knowing Martin, I know that he would’ve made it work. So, it makes sense then with all of the information that we had about how they are gonna fit this into place and how they are gonna bring us all up to speed on everything that’s occurred. You just sidestep that. The series would’ve taken place in this alternate universe with characters that would have had knowledge of the world that we are familiar with. That’s basically where that was going to go. And that was the big one. ‘Cause if Michael is gonna reveal that he was in this, I wanted to provide a little bit of additional context, especially what I knew with the Argo. And that’s the information that I got ahold of. They were gonna tell me more, and I was like, “I don’t want to know more.” At some point I hope to read it because I wanna get the experience as close to what we would’ve had, had we gotten a chance to see it. It’s my hope that one day, at some point down the line, I’ll get to read it. But that’s the information that I had. My assumption — this was rumor, but what I got was, this is not entirely correct — is that by the end, the season would’ve been about them trying to get him home. But that’s not entirely correct, so that’s not all of that. What I do know is that the Stargate wouldn’t have been activated until several episodes in, or they wouldn’t have even attempted to activate it until several episodes in. So, this was gonna be a complete transformation of the landscape.

William Murphy:
So, it’s basically a season-long “There Before the Grace of God.”

David Read:
I don’t know.

William Murphy:
It’s almost what it sounds like.

David Read:
I don’t know. But the more that I learn, the more it’s like, “I want to learn more.” One of these days, fandom, I think, will probably find out. But God, it’s such a shame. I am so thrilled that Michael is going to be sharing past stories through the new podcast that we’re going to be producing together. And that’s all information that’s going to be, in terms of our release schedule, that’s going to be coming out later on this year. So, actually probably fairly soon, though. Thoughts on any of this?

William Murphy:
We see eye to eye on so much when it comes to Stargate and Atlantis. So, I completely agree with a lot you said. The whole alternate universe shtick or vehicle, it does give an immediate bittersweet or concerning first response in that, “Is this really a continuation, or is this basically their way of a reboot without calling it that?” And in a way of it, at least out of the gate, it very well may be. We’ve talked often about where else could the stories go? And I mean, you and Darren had countless hours over the last six months of those discussions that I’ve been part of as well. So, I can appreciate the challenge. Like I just mentioned, a season or partial season alternate reality pivoting into the prime continuity could’ve been in play. I’ll say this. In today’s modern-day streaming format, where you get rapid-fire new blocks of episodes or even a whole season released at once — who knows what Amazon’s strategy would’ve been ultimately for this — that kind of burn may have actually played better in this era versus back in the early 2000s or certainly late ’90s, where you got one episode a week, 20-episode season, drag on that alternate reality pivoting into the prime one where people are saying, “That’s taking too long.” Versus the modern streaming format, that could’ve told a very intriguing story. And then you pivot into the prime universe. Who knows? I could’ve seen that working plausibly.

David Read:
I do too, and had it been successful, they could’ve gone back to the well for all kinds of other stories. The thing that I really appreciated was that they were going to focus on this first. And make sure that this was as rock solid as it could be. And then launch it and make sure that it was the thing that was given all the care and focus in the world, and then based on the fan reaction and the response of that, then have a conversation about what would come next. But I suspect that it would’ve been pretty positive considering Amazon’s track record at this point, that it would’ve been one episode a week for the 10 episodes that would’ve ran. YSoX, “How much money do they need? What is the problem?” The management at Amazon, according to Deadline, I’m paraphrasing, felt that the project would only appeal to existing Stargate fans. How much money do they need? This is not confirmed, but I heard $250 million first season.

William Murphy:
Holy smokes.

David Read:
Amazon doesn’t do anything small. I think we can guarantee that this was going to be upwards of 150 to 200 million, but I heard 250 million. That is not confirmed. So, that’s a rumor. If you guys have questions, mainly about my feelings about this — I’m not gonna reveal anything that I haven’t really — put a question mark at the beginning of your question, and then ask the question. And I’ll poke through these and find anything that I wanna share.

William Murphy:
So, I have a question. And forgive me if this is something you don’t care to answer.

David Read:
Of course. If I don’t know, I’ll say it. If I know and I can’t talk about it, I’m not going to. I wanted to contextualize what Michael shared about being involved. I felt that made sense.

William Murphy:
So, what compelled you to share it today, I guess?

David Read:
Michael revealing that he was gonna be involved in the new show.

William Murphy:
So, did he reveal it? I know there’s a convention in the UK.

David Read:
Yes.

William Murphy:
That’s where this occurred.

David Read:
Yeah.

William Murphy:
OK, that’s what I was wondering. So, the context for everybody: it was at the Birmingham UK convention.

David Read:
Yep, absolutely.

William Murphy:
Dropped that information.

David Read:
And while I’m thinking about it, the image in the thumbnail has nothing to do with the new series. It is a piece of art that is developing another project that I’m involved in. But I wanted to pick something fresh. And considering what I knew about the story, the Stargate wouldn’t need to have been unburied again. So, I was like, “Let’s go with that one.”

William Murphy:
This would’ve presumably been an alternate reality where the Stargate program had not kicked off a season earlier.

David Read:
A Drummer That Is Bored says, “On a scale of percentage, how do you think was the alternate timeline was a reason for the cancellation?” It was too similar, I think, to– What Deadline reported: that it was gonna appeal to the existing fan base. It was too much like what came before. What they’re telegraphing to us, if you read between the lines, is that this was not gonna appeal enough to new fans. And based on everything that I heard, that’s just not the case. It would have to appeal to them more, and I think that this would’ve done that. But I don’t know if that was the actual reason. I think that may have been the reason that was given. Lord M023, “For me, I love the alternate episodes within the season, but I can’t really see a full season based on this. What do you think about it in this way? Do you think a full alternate season would work?” I do, especially because more than half a dozen cast members were expected to return in a recurring guest star capacity. Daniel was our Daniel, and some others too. That comment suggests that we would’ve seen some actors return playing alternate versions of themselves, which I think would’ve been interesting. But again, had this one been successful, it would’ve lent itself to other projects.

William Murphy:
Gosh, this, as is often the case raises more questions than answers them.

David Read:
In some cases, yeah. But I really felt that particular piece of information regarding the Argo and the alternate reality– It reminds me a lot of the “Daedalus Variations” with the reality-jumping BC 304.

William Murphy:
The cynic in me, and I’m sure a lot of folks will have this knee-jerk reaction, is, good grief, are they really gonna do Stargate: Continuum or “Moebius” the TV show where it’s gonna be some alternate reality for some reason, some butterfly flapped its wings the wrong way and we don’t have a Stargate program, so now we get to rehash those stories. And the System Lords are still out there. Ra’s still hanging out. Apophis is still out there, and we get to– All those same stories. I can’t see Martin, Brad, and Joe doing that. And if they’re gonna go so far in developing what’s transpired in the Prime timeline to where we have a 307-class ship and that drop alone tells me that there’s more to unpack here.

David Read:
Everything progresses.

William Murphy:
But the fact that they’ve spent the time to do it tells me that this isn’t, “What can we do to tell the same story again and cash in?” That’s not the case.

David Read:
That’s right. And it’s an Air Force ship. It’s not a Space Force ship, which I thought was interesting.

William Murphy:
I guess a more positive timeline. I’ll leave that alone.

David Read:
I like the logo.

William Murphy:
There are a lot of other military organizations in the past who have great senses of style but otherwise were problematic. So many questions. So many questions. And I’ll stop and give you some emotion for a second.

David Read:
Please.

William Murphy:
One of the things that’s always given me false hope about where Stargate is somewhere has always led back to one thing for me before this announcement, and that is that Brad Wright has refused to ever say where he thought the franchise was ultimately headed post-Stargate Universe. We knew about Stargate: Revolution. We knew about Stargate: Extinction at a 10,000-foot level. But he has always, even if it was a minuscule, infinitesimal hope that he would have a chance or they would have a chance to tell that story, he didn’t wanna spill the beans. It is bittersweet to the point of a little upsetting that we’re hearing this. Because what does that tell you, or at least I know it tells me, about Michael Shanks’ opinion of the finality of where the story is or the hope of it ever being told?

David Read:
In terms of what the chances are of–

William Murphy:
Right. Because if he’s of the opinion, “Let me spill these beans,” I guess, in his mind, what’s the point of holding it in? So that’s a little disappointing or saddening to me in a way.

David Read:
I’ve been watching all of the coverage for Coyote vs. Acme, and that’s a film that tested extremely well, was essentially done, and then Warner pulled the plug on it for tax purposes because they didn’t wanna throw more good money after bad. But that in itself gave me a ray of hope where it was, “You keep on chugging away at something, and there’s always a chance that something will come back around.” Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s the case this time, and that’s why I felt better about providing this information up to this point.

William Murphy:
Alyssa in chat says, “I think Shanks may have shared this more out of anger than strategy.”

David Read:
He has a right to be.

William Murphy:
No, I don’t dispute that. It’s a fair comment.

David Read:
I reached out to one of the writers, and I told them, “There’s a chance that I might be working with Michael a little bit more directly in the future. I trust your opinion. What can you tell me about him?” Because even though we’ve known each other for 25 years, it’s like, “OK, what can you tell me about him?” And they were, “He’s passionate.” And I said, “Yeah, of course. I don’t need anyone to tell me that.” But it’s so frustrating that they’re not going to proceed.

David Read:
But I really appreciate you being with me for this one.

William Murphy:
Thank you so much for pulling me in and sharing this with me. A literal, within-the-last-12-hour breaking news. Yet again, you’re on the front lines of Stargate as usual.

David Read:
I’m so thrilled that everyone gets to know now that he was gonna be involved because it took me a long time to figure out which of that original cast was my favorite. And I was, “You know the answer to that. It’s Daniel. You’ve known for a long time.” I couldn’t really articulate it. And finding out that he was gonna come back and participate in this only made all the sense in the world.

David Read:
So, you’re gonna be at Dragon Con.

William Murphy:
That’s right. That is my host convention.

David Read:
With the Save Stargate campaign? You’ll be volunteering?

William Murphy:
Yeah, the Save Stargate campaign is coming to Dragon Con. I’m excited to be working with them as much as I can. And I’m excited for them because a lot of them, this is their first Dragon Con. If anyone’s ever been, it is, as you can attest, David, unlike any convention in the world.

David Read:
Separates the boys from the men. That is a big crowd.

William Murphy:
It is a huge crowd.

David Read:
Eternal Darkness SGC says, “I wanted to go to Dragon Con this year, but I’m too chicken.”

William Murphy:
Do it.

David Read:
Atlanta hasn’t gone cannibal yet. You’re safe.

William Murphy:
There’s a lot of good folks, great people. And if you find me at Dragon Con — I’ll see if I can pull it up; there we go — you can–

David Read:
Very nice.

William Murphy:
If you find me in costume, I will be handing out these bookmarks.

David Read:
For sure, man. No, that’s really cool.

William Murphy:
What a great cast turnout. We got Rick, Michael, Ben Browder and Claudia Black together. Teryl Rothery.

David Read:
It’s gonna be a big Stargate crowd, for sure.

William Murphy:
I’m very excited.

David Read:
So, Amanda had to pull out ’cause she’s gonna be …

William Murphy:
Working on a project

David Read:
… busy in a project, and then they brought in Claudia. And it’s been a decade and a half since I think Michael and Claudia have seen each other, so this is gonna be great to see …

William Murphy:
That’s so exciting

David Read:
… to get them together again.

William Murphy:
I’ve never met Ben or Claudia, so high school William is absolutely thrilled.

David Read:
No, they’re a hoot. Claudia is extraordinary, and Ben is the genuine article. So, it’s gonna be a good time. And for those who can help cheer the Save Stargate campaign on, let’s do it.

William Murphy:
We’re gonna have a table occupied from Friday on in the Hyatt Hotel at Dragon Con. So, if anyone’s gonna be there, swing by, say hi. There’ll be some swag.

David Read:
That’s it, man. Thank you for helping me articulate my thoughts here. It meant a lot to have you for the past 25, 30 minutes.

William Murphy:
I really appreciate you. Thank you. As usual, we feel the same way on this, and I appreciate you sharing this with us.

David Read:
Absolutely, brother. I’m gonna go ahead and wrap up the show on this side, and I will see you in a few days.

William Murphy:
I look forward to it. Take care.

David Read:
All right, brother. You take care of yourself.

William Murphy:
You too.

David Read:
William Murphy, Stargate fan and trivia contest winner. You approach him in trivia at your peril, ’cause he will mop the floor with you. I speak from experience. My name is David Read. You’re watching the Stargate Oral History Project. If you enjoy Stargate and you wanna see more content like this, do me a favor and click that Like button. If you enjoyed the conversation or if you have something to add, it does help the channel if you add your thoughts below. And a tremendous thanks to my Patreon members who have kept me afloat, especially through the news over the past couple of months. This has not been an easy thing to digest. We were all excited about this new project and where Martin was gonna take us, the next journey that he was gonna take us on. So, God knows I’ve sighed my share of sighs for a lifetime on this topic and on this channel. But I’m continually blown away by the number of people who continue to support me on this. There is gonna be a whole gaggle of Stargate stories that have yet to be shared. I had a three-hour conversation with Michael a couple, three weeks ago, in terms of plotting this thing out. What’s the shape of this thing? How do you want this rewatch to go? And at the end of that three-hour conversation, I honestly was saying to myself, “This is gonna be really good.” We have a name, and we will be revealing that fairly soon here, along with more details about the shape and structure of the episodes and the interviews and how things are going to go. And I’m really excited about the journey that we’re all going to take together with him, because his memory is right there. And you plug that into someone with– So, he’s got the institutional knowledge on the ground, having done every episode. Then you marry that with someone who has the canonical knowledge and the lexicon. I learned so much in those three hours that it was extraordinary. It was like, “The wheels are all turning now because we can share all kinds of things.” And some of it’s very, very personal, so we’re gonna want to be selective about what gets shared. But I think regardless of what happens with this new podcast — and Dial the Gate will continue to run concurrently with it — it’s gonna be a very sincere and heartwarming rewatch for all of us. Because there’s so much detail, and his memory is so good. So, this is a great time to reinvest ourselves in the show. If Amazon is not gonna provide us with what it is that we have been asking for, if they’re not gonna give us Martin Gero’s Stargate, we’re gonna go back and spend some quality time together exploring what Michael’s memories of this wonderful project that we all love were, episode by episode. Thanks to my moderators for jumping in on short notice. Thanks again to William Murphy for sharing this with me this time. And we will be seeing you really soon with more stories on the Stargate Oral History Project and beyond. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in, and I’ll see you on the other side.