The man responsible for casting the principal talent from Stargate SG-1, Atlantis and Universe joins Dial the Gate to take us through his process and share memories of finding the actors you fell in love with.

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Welcome, everyone, to Episode 423 of Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I’ve been documenting this franchise for nearly 26 years. I was 16 years old and I have never had the privilege of sitting down with anyone from casting before. So, it is my treat to be able to share with you my first experience talking to someone from casting, the man who is actually responsible for casting the leads from all three series: Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Stargate Universe. Paul Weber, casting director for the series. Sir, it is a treat to have you. Thank you so much for being here, and I apologize for the wait in bringing you in with the technical difficulties.

Paul Weber:
No worries. I knew my audition time was at 1:00, so I wanna make sure, like any actor, I’m gonna show up right there at 1:00. Things happen, so I’m glad we’re able to do this. Thanks for having me on and thank you for your audience, who made all the shows such a great success.

David Read:
Dude, it is tremendous to have you. Can you believe that we’re getting ready to do a fourth one, or was that a foregone conclusion, it was just a question of when?

Paul Weber:
It was just a question of when. I think the franchise was so successful and once the — not that I have really any inside news on this — but once Amazon took over MGM, I think the library was always one of the most important elements of the studio. Once Amazon acquired that, it only made sense that there might be new stories to explore in a new Stargate, so I’m thrilled that they’re moving forward on that.

David Read:
How did you originally get involved in the industry? How far do you go back with this? Not Stargate specifically, but in film and television?

Paul Weber:
Like so many of us, I think, David, in the industry, I was enraptured by the idea of being an actor when I was a kid. Television was what we watched, especially when we were young’uns and I remember watching reruns when I was a tot, a kid, and shows like Lost in Space and Time Tunnel and The Wild Wild West and Batman and all of those, and I’d go out into the neighborhood and write and produce and cast other kids in the shows and we would enact them for our families or just use the streets as our back lots. So, I was always engaged in that world with the ultimate goal of being an actor. The thing is, by the time I was an early teenager, my folks weren’t all that thrilled with having us watch TV, so my mom called it the idiot box. And we were encouraged to go out and do what kids used to do at that point, which is go swim, play sports, throw a ball, Frisbee. So, my exposure to television wasn’t all that deep after that point, although I was always a huge fan of the medium and as I grew older and became more engaged in acting through high school, university, and professional training, that’s where I decided to focus my efforts initially, until casting sort of reared its sometimes ugly but beautiful head.

David Read:
How does one find themselves in that direction? Did someone say to you, “You know, you have an eye. You should help us pick who picks who.” Or how does– I’m really curious about that story, Paul.

Paul Weber:
It’s nothing I grew up thinking about, but I was a stage-trained actor, so I had no experience in Los Angeles. I was doing regional theater all over the country, a lot of Shakespeare as well. I decided it was time maybe to move to Los Angeles and explore film and television because I was tired of eating tuna fish, although I had some and it’s still delicious. It was time to make a change and so I came here and I ended up taking a casting workshop from a TV casting director, Victoria Burrows, who was working at a major TV production house by the name of Stephen Cannell Productions, who did Wise Guy, A-Team, 21 Jump Street, all those shows. And I asked her, “Do you need an intern?” So I ended up interning as an actor to get a sense of how the process worked, so that when I began to audition more and more for film and television, I understood what casting was looking for. And because I’d also been a stage director and an actor and trained classically as well as academically in university and professional school, I just took to it, and my bosses there ultimately offered me a job. I loved reading with the actors. I loved taping the actors. I got to know a lot of actors. And every time I tried to leave, what? They just pull you back in. And after a while, I decided, “Let’s go all in on this,” and I think it was probably the best decision I ever made. And I never really looked back on that as anything but the right thing for me to do at that point in my career.

David Read:
I’m sure you know the story of how Harrison Ford got pulled into Han Solo. It really sounds like the same kind of thing, “You need me? You need me to go read back in there? Well, something seems to be working.” Again and again. “Well, I think I found my spot.”

Paul Weber:
I was starting to get a lot more work in casting, and more opportunities came along too, and I liked the consistency of that. I liked the creativity of– Sorry, I have a tiny tickle, so I may be drinking a little water here and there.

David Read:
Me too.

Paul Weber:
So, it just became more and more opportunistic for me, and the business is very relationship-driven, and one thing led to another, and I was working on a series as a casting associate for Tales from the Crypt, which I loved working on, and the next thing I know, an opportunity to work– I was gonna say audition, but an interview over at MGM under Mary Jo Slater, who was the casting director at MGM at the time, and I interviewed with her, and I found myself with a job. I didn’t know that was gonna last 16 years, and that I would take on more and more responsibilities, but I’m thrilled it did. Otherwise, without Stargate and maybe some of the other shows at MGM, I might still be living in a one-bedroom apartment in Van Nuys. So I have to thank the producers and the studio for helping me buy my house, having worked on all of these highly successful commercial shows.

David Read:
It’s so important to take stock and count our blessings, ’cause every step of the way, we do it together. And that kind of leans into the next point that I wanted to get to, ’cause I do wanna talk about, obviously, looking for the right person and how that takes an eye to spot the right person based on what you’ve read and what the client needs. But, correct me if I’m wrong, that sounds to be only 50% of the process, because if you’re not successfully interfacing with not only your client but your peers and being able to negotiate– It’s all politics, and you have to be a people person. You have to be able to tolerate the BS, and people have to be able to, if not fall in love with you, put up with you. What is that tightrope walk that you embark upon when engaging in this kind of a field? Because it’s people, and it’s what’s on the page that’s going to need to be translated onto film. You have to be able to manage yourself and get the personalities to work together around you, and not anyone can just do that.

Paul Weber:
It’s a great question, David, and I hope I negotiated that fairly successfully. I guess maybe I did because I lasted as long as I did over there through a number of regimes who ran MGM. I was in the trenches as a casting director. I wasn’t just a casting executive. I was MGM’s guy, but I also was tasked with casting the shows with my associate and my assistant and my team, and my Canadian team, which were incredible casting people on the shows. I wanna shout out to them, absolutely.

David Read:
Yes, sir.

Paul Weber:
But it is a tightrope, and you need to be able to please a lot of people and still honor the requests of the producers, the creatives of the show, Brad, Robert, Martin. These are masters of their craft, and they had a vision. And my job was to help realize that vision, but still make the networks, which were Showtime and subsequently Sci-Fi, as well as our studio, MGM, happy that we were finding the right cast. And I always felt like I was a people person. I could get along with everyone. I wanted to make everybody happy, but still have a spine when it came to standing up for the choices that I wanted. But also do it in a way that was respectful to all the voices in the room, and there were always many voices in the room. You gotta remember, too, that MGM, at the time, was a privately-held company and the smallest of the five majors. So, my boss, the head of production and television at MGM, once told me, “Paul…” He’d call me Weber. “Weber, we’re not playing with a full deck here, but it’s our deck.” So we didn’t have all of the layers, the corporate layers that public companies and studios have, that my peers at other studios or networks had to negotiate extra layers, which could be befuddling sometimes and very frustrating. I have to say, we didn’t have that many layers to work through, so we were able to be relatively nimble and make decisions that we could get sign-offs for relatively soon. Our execs over at MGM deferred many times to the creators of the shows and said, “You guys know what you’re doing. We like what we see. Television is making money at MGM, where other departments, maybe not so much. So you guys just do what you do.” And I think that sort of largess, not quite laissez-faire, but a little bit of giving it up to let the guys do what they do best and let us do what we do best. And I think that extended even to the networks to a certain extent, and you can get a lot of notes from the networks. But I think they also realized that the shows were running really well, they were making a lot of money, and why do you want to mess with that? And I think that also extended to casting. So it was a very smooth operation, I thought. And the guys and I over the years developed a bit of a shorthand for casting. I knew what they wanted. I tried to find what they wanted. I tried to expand the range of actors that they might consider so we don’t get stuck in one way of looking at a role that we have.

David Read:
An echo chamber.

Paul Weber:
Yeah. That was my job, and I think they appreciated that and it was a tremendous joy working on this show, all of the shows. I have to say that, in the 16 years I was there, I don’t think there was one day that I ever woke up that I didn’t want to go to work and didn’t enjoy what I was doing. I don’t know how many people can say that, but I know I could say that. There were really tough days. There were really challenging days. Test days were nail-biting days. But ultimately, I so loved what I was doing over there and loved working with the execs and the studios and the networks as well as the creators of the show and the actors, that it really was a journey of joy for me the entire time. I’m totally serious about that.

David Read:
You and I could probably go on for hours offline about MGM and the rise and fall of the different groups of people. The significance of Charlie Cohen to keeping Stargate alive over the years.

Paul Weber:
Yes. Charlie, absolutely, but also what I call the first King Cohen, Hank Cohen, who was before Charlie–

David Read:
And no relation.

Paul Weber:
No relation, but I call King Cohen I and King Cohen II. And then this guy maybe doesn’t get the credit. Maybe he’s been talked about, but the president of television originally was John Symes. And Symes created this world. He was the one who attached Richard Dean Anderson. He was the one who created the whole idea of second windows and syndication. This was really the glory days of MGM under John Symes, and then when John left, Hank took over. And then when Hank left, Charlie took over, and always were big fans of the show, big fans of the creators of the show. And I think that washed over me as well, too, where they left us alone to make the best content we could.

David Read:
If it’s working, don’t fix anything that isn’t broken. Don’t interfere with the goose that’s laying the golden eggs.

Paul Weber:
And they were.

David Read:
There’s plenty of things to improve. But step back and let it motor along. I want to get into some of the particular folks in a little bit here, but this is purely fascinating for me, Paul. I think one of the things that a lot of us who have worked in corporate feel is so much of how we get where we get is who it is that we know, for better or for worse. A resume can only speak so loud. But if you have someone who’s like, “Look, I’ve worked with this person over here. This is a very specific job. I know they can do this thing.” Whatever it is, flipping burgers, fine, or managing a whatever. Is casting a lot of who you know, and how do you find the right fit for a role? Where do you begin? No joke, last weekend, I was in LA for my godson’s drum roll competition. We’re driving there. His dad literally asked me, he said, “How do they find the people for these programs?” It’s like, “Well, Sean, it’s interesting that you ask. Tune in this coming Saturday.” So, how is that done?

Paul Weber:
That’s why, thank God, I don’t think we’ll ever get replaced by AI because it’s a human, gritty, raw job, and it’s very labor-intensive. And the good thing about that is, when you’re in the trenches and you’re casting, sometimes multiple shows at the same time, which I was doing, especially when you have to throw on a DIRECTV movie we’re doing, or an ABC Family movie at the time that MGM had commissioned and I get the phone call, “We’re gonna do this.” And then, “Oh, by the way, we’re also doing this, so buckle up.” Once you’re in the trenches, talking to agents, talking to managers, going to see theater, comedy shows, going to Broadway. These shows, and all sci-fi shows, I think, need a specific kind of actor, an actor who can, what I say, compete with the scenery. It’s a big mythical world these guys have created, and so I was always trying to hone in, even based on my own experience in theater, on theater-trained actors, actors who really understood the mythical language that was being created, who could hold the stage with our series regulars and the guest stars that we were casting, and that was a joy as well too, because you needed to find the right actor and because you’re always looking, talking to agents, “Who’s interested in doing a show like this? Who just came from New York? Who is new that hasn’t done a lot of television that I can introduce to our producers as someone fresh? And also, who maybe has done other sci-fi shows that we can do crossovers on?” Which I think the team was really excited about doing more of, and I think that not only supported our base audience but brought perhaps other audiences in too, and they understood the genre. When you’re in it every day, you’re constantly having those conversations, so you learn about talent, you bring them in, you are surprised, and you find the right kind of talent that supports the kind of show that we’re doing. Good actors are good actors, and if they come from stage and support the sort of the backdrop of the mythical world that the guys created, then those are the actors that excited me most.

David Read:
So you really have to have your ear to the ground scouting for people all the time. I can’t imagine the number of shows that you find yourself going to looking for people to– Do you do that innately? Is it when you have a conversation with, I don’t know, me, for instance? It’s like, “Ah, I’ve seen that characteristic before in here and–” Not that I would be good for a role or something. How do you see other people? Joseph Mallozzi and I have talked extensively about this, you’re never not creating story, especially when you’re in the thick of a TV series. That drip does not shut off. Do you see people that way all the time or are you able to shut that off based on what the needs of your clients are? Or are you always filing people away?

Paul Weber:
That’s what you have to do, is make notes on actors. The guys would call me up and say, “There were three or four great choices. Let’s save so-and-so for another episode.” So, I feel like I’m on the right track with some of the characters that I may not know are coming up in four or five episodes. But where they look at an actor, great character actors, the Robert Picardos or Tony Amendolas or any of–I mean, so many great character faces that are great fits for the shows–and then I keep a list of those actors, and then sometimes I’ll bring up, “How about…” and sometimes they’d come back and read and sometimes we would just hire them, or we would just offer them the roles. So it’s constantly making sure that I’m on the same page as our producers and honoring the material and also trying to find new and original actors for our episodes to keep things fresh.

David Read:
Is there anyone through the Stargate canon that you are responsible for bringing in–good luck narrowing this down, Paul–that you really felt vindicated by. Not that others were saying, “Eh, I’m not sure.” But, “I really have a feeling about this person, and damn, they nailed it.”

Paul Weber:
Gosh. We can talk about the actors that were on the show that you would sometimes squint a little and think, “Really? That actor for our show?” And yet, they were lovely and it was really due to the foresight and the appreciation by our producers to go, “Yeah, let’s go there,” especially in the first two Stargates, where we needed a certain sense of humor, a sensibility, a slightly comic sensibility, a sort of a tongue-in-cheek quality to some of the episodes that I think, I won’t say comic book or graphic novel, but there was certainly a kind of a wink-wink during at least those first two series that made me sort of reach outside and look for actors that might be right for those episodes. So, I know one of the things that you said we might talk about are the actors we wish we had gotten, and oh my God, there’s a huge long line of those actors, because every casting director goes after actors that they’re never gonna be able to get. It doesn’t mean we’re not gonna try, but when I heard that Heath Ledger was maybe coming to the US and had just finished an Australian series, I thought, “Oh my God, I’d love to get Heath Ledger in one of our shows.” And that conversation with his agent at CA lasted about 23 seconds, and he said, “Thank you very much, but he’s gonna focus on features.” And your audience needs to realize that we’re told way more often no than we are yes by agents, because we’re always trying to cast up in the show, and names help. But I happen to have a list of some of the actors that we did bring on the show, which I’d almost rather talk about. Can I read you a few?

David Read:
Be my guest.

Paul Weber:
So, one, and this was not my idea, but sometimes you get a phone call. And we got a phone call from Wayne Brady’s agent. And Wayne Brady was a huge fan of the show. Wayne Brady was mostly known as a comedic actor or a comedian, but he’s so much more than that. He’s always been so much more than that. And once I told the guys that Wayne Brady loves the show and wants to do the show, they went, “Oh my God, we will write something for him,” which they did, and Wayne had an amazing time. So, it’s not always me thinking, “Oh, what about…?” Sometimes they come to you, and on commercially successful shows like Stargate that have legs, especially Stargate SG-1 had, and to a slightly lesser extent, Atlantis, they come to you once in a while. But then you’re also looking for actors, and that’s where actors and crossover actors, and I’ll read a few because I don’t remember all of them, but …

David Read:
Be my guest.

Paul Weber:
… your audience does.

David Read:
This is candy for us.

Paul Weber:
It’s fun. So I was thinking about that and going back, and of course, Beau Bridges was such a great anchor for our show, and both direct-to-DVD movies, as well as crossover on our show. So, he’s an actor that just adds gravity to anything he does, and he was a joy to work with. But others, Claudia Black, of course.

David Read:
God.

Paul Weber:
Your audience and all of ours, what a presence.

David Read:
What a talent.

Paul Weber:
Morena Baccarin.

David Read:
Morena.

Paul Weber:
Yes. Now, she was an up-and-comer back then, and she’s exploded like many of these actors move on to do other series and shows. And Morena, I was able to work with even in other projects down the line, because she was such a great catch. And sometimes you don’t always know that at the time, but they establish themselves. Isaac Hayes, William Devane, Robert Picardo, of course. Henry Gibson from Laugh-In. Think about that. Willie Garson, rest his soul. Sex and the City.

David Read:
Man, never knew anything about sci-fi and was perfect for it.

Paul Weber:
You guys know.

David Read:
It’s a look and it’s a temperament and it’s a cadence. And he works. He’s just magic.

Paul Weber:
He does work. There’s John Billingsley — who is a lovely actor as well — was another one, and John and I did theater in Seattle, so when I thought of John Billingsley and great actors like John Aylward and all that came from the Seattle stage and then migrated to LA, I would go to those actors as well. And John had already established himself as a character actor. Ronny Cox, Lou Gossett Jr., Tony Todd, Tamlyn Tomita, Dom DeLuise. Michael Rooker, Fred friggin’ Willard. Grace Park, James Earl Jones, the voice. Jewel Staite, Connor Trinneer, Mitch Pileggi, Robert Patrick, Dave Foley, Danny Trejo, Lou Diamond Phillips. Victor Garber, one of my favorite stage actors of all time, and I saw him not long ago and reminded him he did the show and he had to think about it. He went, “Oh my gosh. Yes.” And then, of course, at some point we can talk about our final Stargate, but what a fantastic cast for that show, I have to say. So, there you go. That’s a sample.

David Read:
And I’m glowing because of the luck that we had with these people. And it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, because Brad, Jonathan, Rob, Joe, Paul, Martin Gero, these people were making great TV that people wanted to be a part of. Christopher Judge just recently came on and talked about the fact that Lou Gossett’s kids were fans of the show. And not to go into too great detail on it, but you would have actors who would, in some cases, come on for less pay because this was something that they wanted to make work, and this was something that they wanted to do for their families. This was their appointment TV, and they wanted to do something for them. That’s cool.

Paul Weber:
Yes. Less pay was music to our studio’s ears, of course. There were limits of what we could pay actors. It really helped when there were fans of the show. But I also tried to sell the show this way. Like a William Devane or a Ronny Cox or any of our recurring regulars, actors that were highly respected character actors who might think twice about doing a genre show, I would say to their agent, “All they need to do is two or three episodes, and if they want, they can go to these conventions and they will have an annuity for years to come.” So, you may say, “Nah, they’re not gonna do that,” or, “I don’t think they’ll ever do that.” Guess what? They did. The fans at these conventions all over the world, you’d get an offer and you’d have your agent negotiate a really sweet deal, and you would fly off to Berlin or London and make a nice chunk of coin, and that would be part of your legacy.

David Read:
And go on vacation while you’re over there.

Paul Weber:
And go on vacation and an annuity. I wish they did that with casting, but they never asked. So, there you are. So that was also a bit of a carrot for some of the actors who needed to think twice about getting involved in a popular commercial genre show. We did whatever we needed to do, so I was unabashed about that.

David Read:
Absolutely. You brought up a name that crossed a couple of the lines already on my sheet over here with some fan questions. I can’t believe we’re already 35 minutes into this thing. That list is exceptional, and I’m wondering if we can pluck one of them out. Ronny Cox, I just rewatched Total Recall for the first time in ages. The man is magic. God, he can play villains. And what a sweet guy. You give him a stringed instrument and he’s off. It’s like, where is the dictator from Mars? Where’s the Omni Consumer Products mastermind? He’s not there. Do you recall anything about bringing Ronny in as Senator Robert Kinsey for this Season One episode that’s a boardroom episode? It’s a clip show. I love that actor. You can’t say enough good things about him.

Paul Weber:
No, that’s exactly the sweet spot of actors that I was looking for, whether they would play variations sometimes of what they played, but more ideally if they were able to play offside of some of those characters. But that’s the perfect example of an actor that I would have 100% confidence in. I don’t always hear about these things of what happens on set. Sometimes I do. Sometimes our line producer, John Lenic, would call and go, “Well, we had a little problem with him.” I don’t have control over that. I can only do the best I can do. It’s a messy human endeavor. It’s tough sometimes. You bring in an actor or you know about an actor, you try to do some reconnaissance on background, how they behaved on other sets. It’s really hard to get anyone to talk about these things. You have an instinct. You have to trust that and then do some homework and keep your fingers crossed, because I wish sometimes I could have gone on Amazon and ordered 20 actors delivered in 48 hours to the set that I knew would be fit to size.

David Read:
‘Cause you could read all the reviews.

Paul Weber:
This is a human business, and personalities, temperaments, and what might work terrifically well in the room, or you hear great things and then sometimes on the set, you don’t know. So, you hold your breath a little bit. But I have to say, you gotta trust your instincts, and then you do hope for the best, but I have to say, overwhelmingly, the cast that was sent up to Vancouver to shoot and the actors that were brought in by our amazing casting teams in Vancouver delivered.

David Read:
Absolutely. Lockwatcher, thank you for that question about Ronny. I’ve heard the stories of, “Yeah, we can’t have them back. We had to use cue cards to get them through X, Y, or Z scene.” You can only give someone an opportunity. And then if they blow it, I guess you just have to file it away and say, “OK, this has happened.” I’m curious, Paul, without getting into specifics, if you have a show that has a negative experience with an actor, do you document that so that you always have that information on file? Or do you throw caution to the wind and say, “Well, better luck next time with them?” Or what’s your process if you have a complication with someone not doing the job that you’ve put your neck out for to do? What’s your process internally for dealing with them in the future?

Paul Weber:
There are two sides to every story. If you work for the studio, you work for the producers, you take their side because it’s their show, it’s our show. However, once in a while, you’d get a call from a manager and go, “You know what? This was just challenging for them.” I’m not saying on Stargate, I’m saying on …

David Read:
In general.

Paul Weber:
… TV shows. “And this is what happened.” I always try to hear both sides of the story, but I tell you, if there’s a bad experience in the audition room, and I’ve had a few with actors whose names you’d recognize who came in to audition. I’m saying about movies and other shows we did. It didn’t go well and there was some bad behavior, life’s too short. I would never bring that actor in again. I just wouldn’t. There are too many great actors out there. And if they had a bad day, I don’t want them to have another bad day, and I don’t want them to have a bad day on the set. So, we can only say yes to one actor. We have to say no to everybody else. So, I’d rather make sure that the actors are always in top form and delivering not only the best audition, but perform in spite of any challenges or obstacles on set and are able to rise to the top and get the job done, and those are the actors that I want in every show that I cast.

David Read:
Casting is purely subjective. You see something in someone. I’ll never forget Danny Trejo appearing in Atlantis. It was like, “Oh my God, this is a powerhouse.” In my opinion, he wasn’t there nearly long enough. The names that that whole franchise got, it’s just nuts. We were so blessed. I want to start getting into some of the specific players a little bit here, but before I go a little too deep, I just wanted to make sure… Oh, this is an interesting question for you. What do you do when your instincts turn out to be wrong in a choice? Is that, “Hey, you know what? I took a gamble on this person, and this didn’t fit as well as I thought?” And how do you correct for that again? Or are you never wrong?

Paul Weber:
My instincts are never wrong. Not that I would ever admit to it even if they were. I think that sort of hearkens back to the last question a little bit. You sometimes have to take a flyer. And especially on a new talent, someone that hasn’t had a lot of experience, which is the best part of my job, is breaking someone brand new. An example of that, we could jump to Universe, but an actor like Brian J. Smith, who …

David Read:
So good.

Paul Weber:
… didn’t even have a union card. He was brand new, and I could talk about that origin story with Brian, but that’s what I like to see, and you get a gut feeling. And when it comes to casting series regulars, it’s even more important. ‘Cause these are characters you’re gonna live with for 10 years. We didn’t know Stargate was gonna last 10 years or that SG-1 would and that Universe would last seven, and frankly, I’m disappointed that Universe only lasted two. But you never know until those actors are on set, and you have to cast with the idea of, are these characters gonna continue to grow and engage your audience over 10 seasons? Are the creators–and that’s their job–are they gonna be able to continue to deepen the characters’ storyline and keep the actors engaged in their roles as well as the audience engaged in their journey? And sometimes an actor will audition or test really well, but there will be a discussion about, is that all we’re gonna get? Is that all we got? Do we get that performance, or are we gonna see more from that actor? Do they have the well of the depth to be able to bring up more and more? And part of that is gonna be the responsibility of the writers and the creators of the show writing for them. I remember hearing from Chris Judge that he had to sorta create, help create a deeper storyline for his character, and he was able to do that. So, that’s a constant process, but I need to feel in my gut this actor is gonna be able to keep finding deeper and deeper wells within the character, and that will engage the audience, that’ll engage the storylines and the other actors, and that’s where you have a successful show.

David Read:
Let’s not bury Brian. He’s someone who’s an extraordinary talent. You plucked him out of New York theater, and I also know for a fact that Michael Welch was considered for that part. He was interested in Matthew Scott, but Brian comes along, and the dude has this emotional reservoir that he can activate on a fricking dime. It’s like, where does this come from, this soul? Let’s use Brian as a case study. Let’s get into the heavy hitters.

Paul Weber:
You wanna hear about Brian–

David Read:
Not that he wasn’t, but I love Brian, so please.

Paul Weber:
We have to go back a few years before Universe was cast. I went to a Julliard showcase.

David Read:
Brian went to Julliard.

Paul Weber:
I would always go to these. That’s another place I would find actors. I would go to the big showcases of all the top universities and the arts schools. Brian was one of the few actors that I said, “That guy, I need to get him in one of our shows.” He has leading man, especially the traditional white at the time–it’s a whole nother conversation–leading man role, character faces, and a very engaging personality that was slightly mysterious at the same time, and I thought would be great for television. I wasn’t so sure about him as a feature actor, and that’s a strange thing that our little heads go through where some actors feel like they’re the best fit for television, others feel like they’re a better fit for film. Although now there’s so much crossover that that has certainly changed quite a bit. He didn’t have an agent. He lived in New York in a walk-up with a couple other guys working in a restaurant or a bar, I think. And he came in for a general meeting with me, and I said, “I really loved what you did. I know you’re out of Julliard. Are you considering coming to LA and looking at television?” And he looked at me and said, “Thanks so much. I’m really not interested in doing television right now.” And of course, he’s a theater Julliard actor. He says, “I’m gonna stay in New York and focus on theater.” Tick-tock, tick-tock. Two years later, Universe comes around, there’s this lead role as a series regular, and I find out Brian is at Innovative Artists, an agency in New York, and I call my good friend Bill Veloric, who’s his agent over there. And I said, “Last time I met Brian a couple years ago, he wasn’t interested in television. He wanted to do theater.” I could barely get the sentence out before, “He’s interested in television,” because think of it, you’re a theater actor. You go to Julliard. You work, but you don’t work all the time. You’ve got roommates. It’s expensive. You’re in a walk-up. All of a sudden he’s starting to think, “You know what? Maybe I should look at TV and film.” He didn’t even have a Screen Actor’s Guild card. So, I said, “Let’s put him on tape.” And I didn’t show the tape. It was very good, but I didn’t show it to the guys. He was sort of in my back pocket as I went through other actors as well, and then gave notes, had him re-tape, all sort of under the radar. Because he was my guy. I wanted that success story.

David Read:
That’s right.

Paul Weber:
I wanted that to happen. Because what a great gift it is, as a casting director, to bring someone brand new up that no one had ever seen before, who was a trained actor, who knew how to audition, who knew how to create depth within the roles they were given, who learned instantly how to scale performance for the camera. Not every actor from stage can do that. Brian was very adept at that. Toward the end of the casting process, they wanted to see Brian for a test. I get all the actors in the room at maybe Universal Studio or one of the hotels, Hilton or Universal in Studio City, and I work with them before the test, each of them separately. And then Brian came in, he had no money. I mean, I had to loan him cab money. He didn’t even get his per diem sent to him in a timely manner, so I had to spot him some cash, and he was staying at his manager’s house. And we worked on the scenes together, the test scenes. He came in, and like any great stage actor with an audience of 15 or 17 executives in that room, which would scare anyone to death, he just delivered. And he got cast, and he went from making nothing to making something. Something, believe me, every episode. And it was one of those stories that I love to tell because that is kismet, luck. I don’t know. If I’d never been to that Julliard showcase, I might not have been aware of him, and it would’ve been someone else probably great in the part. But I’m really glad that it was Brian who got his union card as a series regular on our show.

David Read:
That’s a great story. Thank you so much for sharing that, ’cause there are chance encounters that we have with people, and we experience this in our own lives when we look back, where it’s like, “Had I not been there at that point in time, this thing wouldn’t have happened.” And you always have to wonder, “What else am I missing out on if I’m not brave enough?” And in your position, especially if you see something in someone, I’m sure you’re going to do everything in your power to make sure that they have the strongest chance possible, because you see the potential there. And that’s what you’re trained to do, and that’s what the project deserves.

Paul Weber:
That, again, goes toward instinct and trusting that you found something special. When that happens, it’s pure gold, and especially when it happens to an unknown. And the studio, the network, where it’s all about money and ease of production, and the creative guys sign off on that with confidence, I don’t know, it just makes me feel warm and fuzzy, for sure.

David Read:
Raj Luthra wants to know how–a person on their own is one thing–but how does the chemistry process between the actors work? Say we’ve got Brian, how do we know he’s gonna work well with Elyse Levesque? I mean, those two are gonna have a lot of time on screen together. This one got hired, Elyse didn’t get hired until later, you can’t necessarily work them together in the casting pro– How does that work in a situation like that?

Paul Weber:
For most series, we do some form of chemistry testing, where we try to get the leads together to meet, maybe to do a scene, maybe to work with another actor during a test, an actor that’s already attached. And then new actors come in who become series regulars. And my experience is, at least on the shows that I did, we didn’t have any issues as far as I know. Maybe someone has some more reconnaissance. Maybe you know more about that than even I do. But my experience has been the chemistry for all of our shows was pretty good. Now, you’re gonna have people who live with each other for 10 years. Obviously there’s gonna be some maybe personality conflicts or, like any family, fighting about something that isn’t working, egos involved because it’s an ego-driven business. So, there may be some of that, but you try to do the best you can. Actors are pretty good. They’re very seductive. They can create a certain level of chemistry. I know when I do movies and TV movies and features, I insist that our producer, director sits down with our leads and has lunch with them if they haven’t met before, and just see how they connect to each other. And they’re really good at creating, for the time they need to, a certain chemistry. I think it serves them better to be able to find a way to work together and many times, genuinely like each other. That’s ideal. I don’t know if that always happens, given the nature of the business and how pressure cooked it is sometimes, but we try to do some chemistry testing to see if there’s a real connection there, and that’s tricky. That’s always something you can’t necessarily create, although I’ve seen actors do a pretty good job at it. Again, it’s a messy human endeavor, and it doesn’t always happen, but when it does, it’s pure gold.

David Read:
That’s the thing, I can think of a dozen stories pretty easily of where, wow, they didn’t like each other at all? Wow. Didn’t show it.

Paul Weber:
Didn’t show it.

David Read:
And in other circumstances, oof, you can see on that screen, they’re struggling to get through this one. And I think that’s the yardstick of quality between a competent actor and an outstanding one, or at least a professional one.

Paul Weber:
Yes, a professional one. We all know the big story in the news about a lawsuit between these–

David Read:
Yeah. I wasn’t thinking about that one. I was thinking about a major romance novel series, but OK, yes, we can go with that one. So, let’s go with that one.

Paul Weber:
When I watched it, no idea. I didn’t see any of that when I watched it. I thought it was a pretty damn good movie. And I know the actor pretty well because I used to bring him in all the time, and I actually cast him in a movie. Delightful. However, that was then. Who knows? So, again, you just don’t know, and I don’t really know anything about that. I could talk to the editor, which I have, I could talk to other people, but there are two sides to those stories and you just don’t know. But what we saw, I don’t know, if anyone saw the cracks in those performances, good on them, but I didn’t see any cracks in terms of chemistry there. Professional ones, at least in the moment, even though there might have been some unprofessionalism. As far as getting the job done, the phone calls that I sometimes would get from a producer is, “Pain in the ass, but it’s up on the screen.” The delivery is on the screen. So I can live with that for 10 days as a guest star, and I’m talking specifically a show like The Outer Limits, which was a star-driven anthology that I did, that I had to attach names every week to. Once in a while you’d get a challenging personality, but inevitably it would be, “It’s up on screen and that’s all I care about.” That would be a line producer telling me that. And that’s my job. That’s what I do. That’s what I have to do. Not my job, the line producer, who I do not envy their job. But they figure it out and they look great on camera and the performance is delivered. Ideally, you want both. You want an actor that’s easy to work with, pleasant to work with, and delivers on camera. But again, it’s a human endeavor and it’s not always clean.

David Read:
I don’t wanna go too far afield, but …

Paul Weber:
Go ahead.

David Read:
… I love what I’m hearing in terms of, look, this is a people business. People are fallible. They mess up, they screw up. Sometimes they have bad days. Sometimes they fall on their face. And then sometimes you have to turn around and take a chance on Robert Downey Jr. and saying, “OK, here’s what we’re gonna do. Here’s the rules that we’re gonna set in place. If you can pull this off, you’re gonna succeed.” And by God, 10, 15, 20 years later, it’s like, “Oh, man, was that a good idea.” Talk about a phoenix rising from the ashes. So, you have to be willing sometimes to take chances on someone if you see a glint in their eye. It’s like, “OK, let’s try and make this work. He’ll have to play by the rules, but let’s try and see what we can do.”

Paul Weber:
You hope they do, and when you have a big star like that, that means money. The studios and networks, they can be sometimes over-forgiving of certain behavior, but when it does pay off, like it did especially, that’s a great example for Robert Downey, but he was the one who pulled that together. He was given the opportunity to do that. And maybe the last opportunity to do that, maybe one more. And he knew it, and was able to pull up the suspenders and deliver.

David Read:
Everyone loves that kind of an underdog story, because we all can hope that in such a situation, we would be able to rise to that occasion as well. I want to talk to you about Richard Dean Anderson, obviously. I don’t think that we would be sitting here having this conversation if it wasn’t for RDA. There is a magic to him. There is a whimsy to him that you cannot duplicate. One of Jack’s lines comes through my head at least once a day, and there’s a reasonable shot, a third of the time, half the time, that it’s something that he came up with and the writers went, “OK, best idea wins.” John Symes was responsible for bringing in Rick?

Paul Weber:
Absolutely. That’s kind of the end of the story, Dave. I wish I had more. We had nothing to do with that. The show, as you mentioned, would not have gone forward most likely without getting a big, big star for television like Richard Dean Anderson. It just probably wouldn’t have happened. That’s what triggered the green light by Showtime, who was taking a risk on a sci-fi series with MGM that was just starting to get in that syndication business. And I don’t even know the details of how it all happened, how it was negotiated, but Mary Jo Slater was at the helm at that early time as well too, and we just knew once it was a thumbs up, we had the green light to do a series. And given Richard Dean Anderson’s past history in television, we figured this is gonna be potentially a very long-lasting show, and again, if it weren’t for him, I don’t know if I’d be here with my beautiful fireplace in the background. I’d be somewhere else maybe. So, thank you, Richard Dean, for making that happen. But yeah, that was, however the conversation started when casting was considered for this. Maybe others were involved in that too, but if it weren’t for John really leading the charge on that, I don’t know what would have happened with this show.

David Read:
That’s wild. I mean, I’m kinda surprised, Paul. Total Recall 2070, Outer Limits — Outer Limits is not a movie adaptation — but Poltergeist: The Legacy. These were shows that I found in syndication on my local ABC affiliate on Saturday night, and Stargate SG-1 was the one that came into syndication that fall in ’97 or ’98. ’98, I guess, for me. They really felt that they were taking a risk on adapting another property?

Paul Weber:
Stargate and Poltergeist were both in the MGM library. They were both very popular. It was a no-brainer. It’s what made MGM go back into the vault, and just from Legally Blonde to, I don’t know how many titles, Pink Panther, that was–

David Read:
Robocop.

Paul Weber:
Absolutely, it was a wealth of IP that was MGM-owned. So, if you’re trying to play a little safe, but also do something that you think can be commercially successful, that was a no-brainer to go there. We’d always think, “What are they gonna come up out of the vault next?” It was, I think, in great part to do with MGM’s television success, and perhaps even their feature success.

David Read:
And the fact that you have an extraordinary device through which to tell stories–

Paul Weber:
Never-ending stories, which is why I’m not surprised that there’s a new reincarnation of the show. Because think about it, and you’ve got Martin, who’s a brilliant producer and creator as well, and boy, what better hands for this new incarnation? And I hope it’s as successful, if not more than the other shows.

David Read:
We’re getting to the part that I’ve really looked forward to for years to asking you about because–

Paul Weber:
I thought it would be, “We’re getting to the part I’m really looking forward to saying goodbye.”

David Read:
No, not at all.

Paul Weber:
No, I’m kidding.

David Read:
Not at all. No, seriously, I’m gonna steal you. The word on the street for years, I’m gonna couch it in this, and hopefully you can tell your perspective on this, is that Amanda Tapping, Christopher Judge, and Michael Shanks all found each other somehow, through some form of alchemy, on a day where they were all auditioning. They gravitated toward each other, and on that day fell in love with one another. And I believe them when they say that, but also, “Ah, come on. This sounds a little Cinderella-ish to me.” Is there truth to that? What do you remember about the process for hiring them, and that alchemy? That was lightning in a bottle. I’m gonna be brutally honest, the other shows, they have their qualities with their casts, but when one of them is extracted at the end of Season Five, and you see those actors dealing with the loss of that one on screen, and the tears that they’re having to hold back, that’s real. We just had that conversation with Rob Cooper a few days ago about that. Those scenes at the end of Season Five when Michael is gone are 100% real. Is that an urban legend about the three of them finding each other during casting? Had you heard about that? And what did you see in those three?

Paul Weber:
Again, I was on the casting team at that point. Mary Jo was leading at that point as the lead casting person there, and I was her right-hand casting person as well. So, I’m not sure I can speak to that. I just knew that there was a real connection between those actors. And you’re right, there is a certain alchemy there. We were lucky.

David Read:
All of us.

Paul Weber:
For us, we had to find for Daniel Jackson the kind of actor, again, who was slightly reminiscent of a James Spader, kind of a visual sensibility and intelligence, sense of humor. And Michael, as a Canadian actor, because again, this is interesting. We had to try to find Canadian actors ideally for some of these leads.

David Read:
Eh?

Paul Weber:
It was the nature of the business and the production and the tax credits and everything else that went into part of that. And luckily, over the years, Canada’s produced some of our best talent. And I’ve been very grateful that they were homegrown partially through some of these shows that were shot there. So Michael was that guy. Amanda, the same. And that they had a chemistry, delighted by, we can’t always plan on that. And it always comes down between one actor and another when it comes to tests, because we’re gonna test two or three actors for the studio. And it just went Amanda’s way. The other actor was lovely, coulda gone that way, did very well subsequently, but Amanda made a career out of this, and catapulted to the next big thing for her too. They were both Canadian actors. Christopher was not Canadian. That was a challenging role because, look at Chris. He’s such a presence visually. And again, the guys wanted someone who was visually a powerful presence in the role of Teal’c, where we could look– And we all wanted someone who was exotic as well, and had a voice and a physicality, the same that we went with Jason Momoa for the next one. But for Chris, we needed that sort of, I don’t know, graphic novel visual there that just registered. And that was a process. We looked at American actors, we looked at Canadian actors, we looked at all sorts of ethnicities and British actors, and we found Chris, who was also quite new in many ways. And I know Chris has stories about how he got cast, and maybe, I think, another actor that he was roommates with or knew was coming in for the role. That happens sometimes too. Almost 30 years ago, Dave, this happened. I’m not sure I remember every single detail. I just know that I was thrilled that the team was able to find the right actors, and that there was a chemistry produced between all of them.

David Read:
I will quote Brad Wright in this, in the retelling of this, because you guys were struggling. It was one of those situations where, for some of these characters–I mean you could argue for all of them–when you find them, you find them. But then Christopher came in and Brad said, and I quote, “OK, Teal’c. Moving on.” It was obvious once the man walked in the door. And the presence alone. And then he spoke, and it’s like…

Paul Weber:
So, there you go. And when Brad Wright signs off on something like that, you’re just about a home run. You get past third, and then you keep your fingers crossed that this network and studio are gonna be on board with that too. But you have a powerful creator, producer, like these guys were, they had a lot of sway in the room. And as casting, we would back them up, not that they needed us because at that point it’s, “Deliver them for us.” And that was the same for Jason Momoa at the end of the day, on Atlantis.

David Read:
Atlantis. Absolutely. God, it’s such a process, Paul. It’s how many of these can you juggle at the same time? And how many downs do you have to get on each of these before you can actually achieve a touchdown? I don’t know how you keep it all straight ’cause you’re not just working on one franchise at a time.

Paul Weber:
What’s tough is when you’re testing at the network, and the network tells you to go back and keep looking. And that’s highly disappointing to the studio who signed off, because the producers sign off first, then the studio signs off. Then we have to go to the network who actually is paying for the show. They’re airing it.

David Read:
That’s right. That’s their money.

Paul Weber:
They have the final say. It’s their baby at the end of the day. It’s their coin. So, for them to come back and say, “Keep looking,” then we have to go back, and we had to do that a couple of times, and we almost had to do it for Atlantis. But I think that ended up going pretty smoothly. Jason was not a slam dunk, by the way. He was for us.

David Read:
Say more. Don’t you hold out on me, Paul.

Paul Weber:
I won’t because what the hell? Here we are.

David Read:
He’s extraordinary. Not everyone’s gonna realize that, and a complicated guy. So let’s be honest, but again, like Brian, wells of depth.

Paul Weber:
At the time, he was pretty green and pretty new and hadn’t had a huge amount of success yet. He’d done some–

David Read:
He had a good tan.

Paul Weber:
He got a great tan because he was on a series in Hawaii for a couple of years, one of those Baywatch kind of series.

David Read:
Kind of series.

Paul Weber:
When I looked at how the roles were written, Jason Momoa for the role that became Ronon, by the way– I’ll say this. I remember watching the MGM movie, Ronin, and thought, “Wouldn’t that be a great name for this character?” Because he wasn’t named quite at the time yet. I’m not sure there’s any debate about this, but I remember mentioning this, “How about the name Ronon for this character?” And the next thing I know, he was in the script. So, my tiny contribution maybe. That’s how I know.

David Read:
Maybe. And Brad said, I recall him telling me, “We wanted someone dangerous.” That was the note that we got.

Paul Weber:
Very good. And the thing was, I didn’t have anyone else in mind. It was always only Jason. He was the only guy that I could think of. And we auditioned so many. And bless their hearts, I brought in a few guys to test that I knew weren’t gonna be the guys. But I was biting my nails and my toenails off, thinking, “It has to be Jason. They have to approve him.” I remember Jason was a bit nervous for the test. He’d never done anything like this before. And the day of the test, I remember him coming into Sci-Fi, and I met him outside of the lobby, and he was nervous. And we had gone over his scenes, and we wrote for him. We didn’t write a huge amount of dialogue yet because it served the character not to. His presence alone, and to the credit of the guys, they said, “We love this guy. We will write for him. We will build out the part, but the strong, silent type, for the first couple episodes, will serve us just fine. Let him get his sea legs.” So when we had him test, it was an edited version of the scenes. I just wanted him to be who he was in front of this team of executives, and the power of his physicality and presence alone and a look from him would be enough. Now, he left the room, and I know, I’m sure the network takes credit for casting him, but at the time, it was a conversation to get the network to sign off on Jason. Now, of course, oh my God. But back then, it’s, “Is he strong enough? He’s a little green. Do you think he’s ready?” And Brad, all the guys, the studio went, “Absolutely. We will do what we need to do to make sure this guy delivers the way you want, but he is absolutely the guy.” Any lesser producer, anyone who might have been more influenced, and these guys were– They had strong points of view. They created the show. Again, they had huge sway and the network bended for this. But I was so frigging nervous. So that’s how it goes sometimes.

David Read:
Thanks for Jason Momoa. Hindsight’s 20/20, man.

Paul Weber:
And over the years, you never know what’s gonna really happen with an actor because Jason is so specific visually too. That’s a huge success story. And way before Game of Thrones, he did Stargate Atlantis.

David Read:
His speech in Dothraki should have won him an Emmy. He’s an extraordinary human being, and it’s one of those where he deserves every bit of success that he’s achieved, and also a very complicated man. But really, when you step back, where does the person end and the actor begin? I’m sure it’s just a part of your trade. A lot of these folks wear their hearts on their sleeve. A lot of them find their value externally. But also, you’re there to find the right person for the right job, and you have to hope that ego will be proportional to the job that needs to be done.

Paul Weber:
In Jason’s case, he was the only one for the job. I’m glad that worked out, and Jason is a deep guy and once he was on set and sort of got his sea legs, you could see how his character grew as the guys started to write more and more for him. And that’s another example of an actor that you feel is gonna grow in the part as well, and what you see, which is formidable, is not just what you’re gonna get.

David Read:
No. You’re seeing a brick wall that’s very good at wearing lots of cows. The leather that Valerie Halverson put this guy in. Some clothes wear the actors. This man wore clothes, and he just worked. It’s very interesting ’cause you astutely brought out the fact that it’s the network’s money. They are the ones who are doing two, three, four million an episode in the mid-aughts to pull these things off. I remember Rob Cooper telling us, Bonnie Hammer, I believe it’s Bonnie Hammer, was adamant, “I want Ben Browder. Give me Ben Browder. I’m not negotiating on this. Find a way to make it work.” Which, you don’t want to let the actor’s agent know about that in terms of negotiations, but it’s like, “OK, we’re gonna find a way to make this work.” And my understanding was, correct me if I’m wrong, he was considered for Sheppard. Dillon Everett at the end of Season One, played by Clayton Landey, I believe he was considered for that role as well when he came in in “The Siege, Part 2.” And then Mitchell came along. What do you remember about Ben? And am I right about that story on Bonnie?

Paul Weber:
The few conversations I personally had with Bonnie, who I respected enormously and still do–

David Read:
She knew what she wanted.

Paul Weber:
We knew what she wanted. We just couldn’t get it to work with the schedule. Because of Farscape, I think there were conflicts there. But ultimately, we got Ben Browder. He did 40 episodes or whatever, and we had to look elsewhere. That would’ve been a slam dunk, would’ve made my job a lot easier, but then we had to try to find the other guy, the next guy, the guy who felt like he could still deliver that kind of toss-off, devil-may-care, charismatic performance that Ben just had in his bones. With disappointment, we had to go back and try to find the guy for that. So as much as any executive or any creator wants an actor, I can’t tell you how many times we just don’t get our first choice. And sometimes, with great movies like Casablanca, that Ronald Reagan was supposed to do, thank God we didn’t go with our first choice. They didn’t go with their first choice there. So sometimes, mostly it works out just fine, and most people will never know that except in footnotes of film and television history. That’s just our job. We’re told no, like I said, we’re told no a lot, and it’s heartbreaking sometimes, and you just gotta move on.

David Read:
Level with me. Are you told no more often in sci-fi? Were you told no more often in sci-fi before Comic-Con became all the rage, and Marvel and everything else?

Paul Weber:
Yes.

David Read:
Was there a stigma that it’s like, “Look, I’m not,” like Stephen Macht was famous for saying before passing on Jean-Luc Picard for Next Generation, “I’m not going to stand across from someone with two to ten heads.”

Paul Weber:
Sure. I think there was always a little bit of that, especially a new show, with a studio and a network taking this on, even though it was Showtime, which was a pretty tony network at the time. But there is a little bit of that that we had to overcome. And I think with a lot of shows you have to prove yourself that way. I remember when I first started working on Spartacus. Who wanted to do that, a sword-and-sandal show like that? And then a year later, boom, everyone wanted to do it, because it was a critical and commercial juggernaut for STARZ. But at the beginning, it’s challenging. That’s our job. We have to go there and do this. And this was a show that was gonna be syndicated. So there’s all that kind of baggage sometimes that comes with a syndicated show, and a cable show.

David Read:
That’s true.

Paul Weber:
At the time, networks ran television. This isn’t a network show? What does this mean? I’m not saying it’s specifically sci-fi, but guess who’s doing the new Star Trek? Holly Hunter. Come on, we’ve come a long way here.

David Read:
In many respects. I recall one of my favorite lines from the whole franchise is by Rick in “Wormhole X-Treme!,” across from Willie Garson. Willie says, “Oh no, the show, it’s based on your Stargate program.” “Don’t worry about it, it’s on cable.” If you don’t know the context to that, there’s layers upon layers right there.

Paul Weber:
Yes. What a perfect way of having a sort of tongue-in-cheek commentary on that. And who better than the guys and Rick to be able to mine that little gem?

David Read:
Thank God for the humor of Hank Cohen, to be willing to come on and reprise his line, “You know what this show really needs is a sexy female alien. Vanessa Angel.” What a good sense of humor.

Paul Weber:
He did.

David Read:
“We’re doing our 100th episode, it’s gonna be a comedy. Hank, come up, let’s just shoot this.” That was fun.

Paul Weber:
The guy, Hank, was a showman, a P.T. Barnum. He did have his finger on the pulse of sort of popular commercial entertainment. I loved Hank Cohen. I think we got along so well, but we had our battles about casting. I said, “You know, just because–” He said, “Actors need to pass the Ventura Boulevard test. People need to know who they are.” Yeah. Really? No, I get it for some of the characters, but what about somebody new and someone original and fresh, and, “What do they look like?”

David Read:
You have to find people.

Paul Weber:
It was a lot of that, but I won some of those, we won some, and then Hank is the president of television. And you can’t screw with success. He had a very good instinct. But that was my job, and I always got on the phone with him and we would laugh about it, but we would get into it, and sometimes he’d let me have my way, and I had to say, “Let me prove it to you.” And then other times he’d go, “No, we’re going this way.” And that was hilarious that we sort of send that up in that episode.

David Read:
You can’t die on every hill, can you, Paul? There is a certain amount of goodwill that we all keep track of in our minds when we have those negotiations that we’re banking with each individual person, that we can say, “Look, you were right on this over here. Over here, I think I’m right on this one. And there’s a reason that I’m in this job. There’s a reason I’m on the phone with you and you’re not on the phone with someone else. Would you consider trusting me on this?” And just plain praying, “Please, God, let’s get them in here and work on the audition together, because we believe in them and we want them to nail this.” Because they deserve to. They’re that good.

Paul Weber:
Hank, gosh, Charlie was great. All those guys were wonderful. But Hank was in there in the early days after John, and he was just so much fun to work with. I’d get a phone call from him, “Weber, come up here, I want to talk to you.” I would never be shaking, it would always be something that we would have a great conversation about. He would yell, but in a good-natured way. And I would stand my ground and I’d go, “OK, you’re the boss, but next time…” And that’s just the way we worked. That’s why I mean I had a great time almost, I think, every day that I walked in with all those guys because they were a joy to work with. From the executive suite to the creative offices. Lucky me, lucky me to have had that time with these great people to work with.

David Read:
Tell me about Charlie Cohen.

Paul Weber:
Charlie was… I don’t know if he was reluctant. He was the next guy. He was on a different side of the business, so he wasn’t necessarily, I don’t believe, coming from the creative side to run the television division.

David Read:
May I insert something before we continue about …

Paul Weber:
Yeah, tell me. Go ahead.

David Read:
… Charlie Cohen? I’ve met him twice.

Paul Weber:
I don’t wanna stick my foot in my mouth on that.

David Read:
We talked, I think, probably the last time was at the Universe mingler above the Solamar in San Diego for Comic-Con. And he said, “Every morning, when I start my day, I do two things. I log in to my fantasy baseball page.” It was before apps, before phones, not really. “And the very next thing I do is go to GateWorld.” And I was like, “Wow. OK. This guy is a fan.” This guy loves the show. It’s not just a business for him. This is his entertainment, and we were so fortunate to have that. I will never forget that story.

Paul Weber:
We were so lucky. Hank was a huge fan of the show. But Charlie, you’re absolutely right, was a fanboy. And he was also inheriting a successful franchise, so he loved the guys. He rarely, if ever, interfered in our casting process. He trusted us to cast, so that was one less layer of an executive that we had to struggle with because Charlie was all on board and he trusted the guys to create the kind of stories that he loved to watch, and that abacus was ringing up money, money, money for television. And that made him happy because he was a money guy at the end of the day too, and this was his job.

David Read:
Stand back, let it do its thing.

Paul Weber:
He just let a good thing happen. So, I loved Charlie for that. It also made my life, and I’m sure the guys’ life, much easier too, and he would always be very supportive, very complimentary. And he made that level of the studio, which was really the only level I had to please, frankly, the head of television, the president of television. The sign-off from one of those guys to move forward with cast, and then our next hurdle would be the network. Charlie, absolutely. I would do anything for either of those guys to this very day.

David Read:
I would suspect that, in that situation, if he has a red flag, it’d be one of those things you sit up and take notice of, like, “OK, he doesn’t normally do this. Let’s see what we’re gonna address here, because this is obviously important.”

Paul Weber:
You have to be a bit of a diplomat. You’re an executive, and sometimes you get a note from the network. Some of those notes were important notes to consider. There were smart people over there at the network as well too who knew the show and had other ideas or had different ideas or additional ideas. I’m sure an executive who was at the studio, where we are talking about a network being the ones who write the checks, you gotta listen to that, and we all have to listen to that, and when those moments came up, we would absolutely need to make adjustments. But if they didn’t come up, business as usual and Charlie and everyone signed off and we chugged along, creating hundreds of episodes of popular TV.

David Read:
Another question from Lockwatcher. I know that Michael Greenburg and Cliff Simon were close. Do you remember Michael suggesting Cliff? Can you speak to that character at all in terms of Baal? Or was that one outside of your wheelhouse?

Paul Weber:
I would hate to say, ’cause I feel like I’m in a Senate grilling. I don’t recall. I’m not sure what the answer is for how Cliff came onboard. And at the time, as you know, there were just a lot of episodes being cast and a lot of different series being cast, so I don’t quite remember how that worked. You would maybe have to ask Michael. And I’m sure maybe Michael would say, “Absolutely,” and we would get that phone call, and off we went with that, and Cliff was fabulous for that. And so I will get ideas, or I will be happy not to take credit for any number of ideas that agents and managers may suggest or that a certain manager may really fight for, and that I might think, “I’m not sure about that actor,” and say, “Please, please, please, give them a chance.” And the producers or a network exec or an agent or a manager who really fight for their client, like Joe Flanigan’s manager did. He went to the mat to try to get Joe in for this and approved for this, and that’s their job. I don’t love when they go over my head on these things and talk to somebody else. Casting doesn’t love that. We prefer to kind of handle that, but sometimes they do.

David Read:
Were you out of the loop on Joe?

Paul Weber:
No, because we did bring Joe in. He was one of the actors we auditioned, but his manager really went 100% for him to push him along, and that’s their job.

David Read:
What about any of the other choices’ managers? What is so unique about that? I’m curious.

Paul Weber:
This particular manager, I respect– Great talent. Was relentless, like anybody in this business needs to be. He would make phone calls. He would call Hank Cohen. He would say, “Let’s get together for lunch and talk about it.” He would just push and push and push, and that’s how sometimes these things happen. It happens with studio execs. It happens with any creator. If they feel strongly enough, they’ll go to the mat for that, and that’s the kind of agent or manager you want.

David Read:
OK. That makes a lot of sense. Back to the point of expending political capital on someone or something or an idea, we all have to consider that fuel in our tank with each person that we interact with, because so much of it is a give and take. “Look, I’ve scratched your back on this. Can you please consider scratching my back on this one, please?” You can tell, this tank’s a little empty. They’re pushing fumes. But sometimes that’s the one that wins out. That’s wild.

Paul Weber:
That’s right, and that’s what happens. Sometimes in casting, we always feel like we know the best. Why can’t we just make a decision? But it’s not the way it works, and ultimately there are a lot of people you need to make sure that you respect and honor their opinions, especially if you work for them. I’m not talking about Joe specifically, but you have to go to the mat for the ones you believe in and hope that they see what you see, but you gotta be very open to adapt, and that’s part of the politics of it, that you need to be adaptable and flexible and still try to make everyone happy.

David Read:
Perfect. Are we good for another 15?

Paul Weber:
Yeah.

David Read:
Are we good for that?

Paul Weber:
Yeah, we are. That’s great.

David Read:
Wanted to double check.

Paul Weber:
As long as your audience can stand it here.

David Read:
It’s grown. Absolutely. We’re almost at 100 people.

Paul Weber:
Great.

David Read:
Johnmorgeneier wants to know, “What do your potential actors who you’re gonna hire bring that check all of the boxes to be considered for final callbacks?” What are you weeding out? I’m sure professionalism, I’m sure they know their lines. What is it? Is it a look in some cases? What is it that you’re looking for where it’s, “OK, let’s narrow it down to these guys. Let’s have them take another chance at bat?” What’s the process there?

Paul Weber:
For every series, you’re gonna have creative conversations with the creators of the show and, of course, the studio of what they’re looking for within certain parameters, and then they give us some flexibility, and then you go through that process. And then for casting, which producers don’t see, we do our first series of calls. They’ve got scripts to write and locations and everything else. This is our job to weed out and find the very best actors we can who are available, who fit the roles within a broad spectrum of the vision of the characters, and push the envelope where we can. And the process is, come on in to read, or submit a self-tape, and then the next level is come back, come back again. It’s a series of callbacks. So I look for a level of consistency, professionalism, personality, ease of connecting with the actors, and, having been an actor and directed for stage, and also have a lot of experience with actors, understand process because I studied so much of it, to be able to make them feel comfortable in the room. Give them notes that hopefully allow them to spread their wings a little bit more in terms of how they play the character. And then after I feel secure about that, then I introduce them to the studio and our producers. They sign off, hopefully, on some of these choices for the roles, and then we move along. It depends, if I have more time, I’m able to see more and more actors. I have to work smart and quick. And I think for all the shows, for the most part, we had a fair amount of time to do our casting, so I was grateful for that. So that’s kind of how you puzzle it together and create the canvas with the colors that you hope to see on screen.

David Read:
This is an interesting question. nick0-0kiddo wants to know, what do you recommend for aspiring actors who want to get involved in a show that they love? Let’s say that they’re already an established actor, or up-and-coming. Can they communicate to you that they love this property? That they really care about it? That they wanna get involved? Or do you want to dissuade people of that? It’s like, “Just do what’s on the page. I’m not interested in your love of the franchise.” Or is that a feather in their cap?

Paul Weber:
Yeah, we love actors who love the show or the franchise. They fight to get in. It’s been that way for some years, but now they can reach out on social media and Insta. We didn’t have access to all that back then. So it was really sometimes personal relationships with actors who would reach out to their agents or managers, or suggestions from our producers. That’s how Wayne Brady or any number of other actors might be attached to an episode. Not my idea, but because they’re fanboys. Or Lou Gossett Jr. and his kids loving that. Or I cast a zombie movie for Hulu a couple years ago. I was able to get Dan Aykroyd and then Chevy Chase to do it, and Dan Aykroyd loved the genre, loved the idea, loved the children’s book that it came from. We promised we’d put his kids in the movie too. However it works, often it wouldn’t work unless there was a real interest on the part of the actor besides the money to do it, where they’re playing a role that they may not have a chance to play, a different kind of character. Those are the kinds of actors that I would love to take chances on, giving them a chance to play something different as well. Sure. Nowadays though, social media plays a big part in that. And I’ll get a DM from somebody and go, “Oh, I didn’t know that you like this and…” Or, “I followed you and I didn’t know you were interested in this world,” so that’s good to know.

David Read:
Do you feel at all that agents are feeling a little bit cut out of the process with that kind of an opening available? Or is that just the way that it’s done? If they’re reaching out to you directly.

Paul Weber:
There’s no one yellow brick road anymore there. As long as we are not besieged or stalked by somebody.

David Read:
Which I’m sure has happened.

Paul Weber:
I’m sure that’s happened, but it really hasn’t happened to me in that way. I’m cool with that. I think actors need to take whatever chances, step outside and take initiative and be proactive and try to get to us in a way that’s more difficult now, because we’re not in the room anymore. We’re not auditioning actors. I don’t see them face-to-face anymore. So we’re just getting self-tapes. So it’s frustrating when actors don’t have access to us the way they used to. Same with agents and managers. Everything’s email or texting now. I don’t get on the phone very often with agents and managers anymore. I lament that. That’s why I got into the business, to have these relationships and develop them, especially with actors. So things have changed. I tell actors, “Do what you gotta do. Get out there and create your own content. Let us know who you are. Reach out to us on social media. Do what you gotta do because you gotta do it.”

David Read:
I really don’t wanna wrap this on a dark note, but I’m curious as to your impression, because as you can imagine, I talk with a lot of actors on this show who talk about the fact that one in 12, 13, 14 yeses, I was doing good. And now with these self-tapes at home, one in 40, 45, 50 is a yes, I’m doing good. A lot more people are being looked at now, but people aren’t interfacing with each other anymore. How is this experiment that apparently almost everyone has chosen, “Yep, this is how we’re doing it from this point forward?” How is this going? How do you feel about it? Is there any chance in sunsetting it? And is this just everyone’s rowing this way, so I guess we’re gonna row this way as well? Spend six hours on a self-tape and then see if you can dance in front of 150 people on a dime and take a note.

Paul Weber:
It was pretty daunting when the pandemic happened and we had to pivot to this. Thank God there was the technology available for us to be able to do that rather quickly. Can you imagine if this had happened ten years before? I don’t know if Skype– I’m not sure what we would’ve been able to do.

David Read:
It’d been a mess.

Paul Weber:
Mess. But thank God, as scary as it was for us, we were able to quickly platform into that from production and casting point of view, as much as we miss seeing actors. And then the actors had to learn how to do this, even though actors had been self-taping for a long, long time. The thing is that now this is almost exclusively the way we’re looking at actors. The good news is we’re able to see a lot more actors. The bad news is we’re able to see a lot more actors. The actors are still getting opportunities, many of them, more opportunities to self-tape. But because we’re seeing so many, and it’s so much easier instead of taking a phone call and listening to an agent or a manager beg us to get an actor in the room, of which we only have 15 slots in the time that I have to see actors. Now it’s like, OK, have them self-tape, I need it by Wednesday. Click. Then they go to their talent. They go, “You got a call. You can self-tape, get a coach, do what you need to do.” When I work with actors as a coach, as an audition coach, and when I travel and teach all over the place like I do, I try to stress to actors how important it is for them to create the best effective self-tape that they can possibly do, because you’re competing against so many actors who are doing really good work on self-tape. And we have many, many choices. And we’re not meeting you live. We don’t have a chance to have that human interaction. So it’s gotta be a performance. We don’t just want an audition. We need to see a camera-ready performance. So when I work with actors coaching them or when I’m able to see them in 3D and work in a class situation, that’s what I stress. So it’s really upon the actor to really front-load all the work that they do and not second-guess. They have to trust their instincts, go with the best choices they can for the role, and hope they’re in that ballpark. And even if they’re not right for the role, I always know if they’re a good actor just based on the work they’ve done for that audition. And again, we’ve mentioned before, you can only hire one actor for a role. It’s not like doing summer stock where you can double or triple cast. It’s one actor, …

David Read:
That’s it.

Paul Weber:
… that’s it.

David Read:
You can’t grab an understudy.

Paul Weber:
Hopefully you remember, and we do remember good actors and we try to find something else for them, but their job is to audition and it’s tough. It’s a very, very competitive business, especially these days with the studios contracting and maybe less content being done, different content being done, different content being done differently. These vertical shorts and all of that, which has given actors a great opportunity. I know we’re going off on a tangent here, but–

David Read:
No, you’re not. It’s the reality.

Paul Weber:
It’s OK. It’s given actors an opportunity, especially non-union actors, to get a foot in the door the way actors used to do soaps. Now they’re doing these, and a lot of them. So without those, I would really be hurting. I think we’d all be hurting if we didn’t even have that opportunity, where new talent can be discovered doing this new kind of content. So I always try to look at more of a silver lining, the brighter light, even when it comes to AI, knowing what we’re dealing with out there, but maybe giving filmmakers an opportunity to make their $30 million movie that would never get made, and they make it for 10 maybe because of AI helping out. I think there’s something to be said for that, that these stories are maybe being able to be told a different way at a price that will be green lit. And I can’t tell you how many features I’ve read that never got made because their budgets were too high.

David Read:
Joe Flanigan once said to me, “So much of the best stuff just doesn’t get made.” And it’s interesting, it’s the knowing what we’re dealing with that is intriguing in terms of this new frontier. It’s the not knowing what we’re going to be dealing with that truly scratches the back of my head there, because we all just have to hang on and continue to believe in each other, ’cause if we don’t, we’re lost.

Paul Weber:
Tell great stories, continue to– And that’s what makes the world go round. And the industry for over 100 years has had major upsets and we all know what those are. And we thought that would be the end of it. And sure enough, it was the beginning of something else.

David Read:
We’ll get through it. Paul, thank you. This was a pleasure. So insightful. I cannot thank you enough and I’d love to have you back.

Paul Weber:
If there’s anything else we have to talk about and if your fans wanna hear some more, I’d be happy to come back. This was really so much fun. This is really the first time I’ve had a chance to go down memory road here a little bit, and I actually had to do some research and go, “Wait, your question, I forgot about that.” Thank you for these very insightful questions and thank you for the questions from the viewers as well. And it just makes me so happy that there’s still an interest in the show, the way that you’ve been able to continue carrying the ball on this for so many–

David Read:
It’s my pleasure. It’s been an absolute pleasure for myself and for Darren and GateWorld, and it feels like we’re just getting started again. It feels like a new day is dawning on this thing and I’m thrilled to be able to have you as part of the project. So thank you.

Paul Weber:
Thank you so much. We’ll see you in the next galaxy.

David Read:
That’s exactly right. You be well, Paul.

Paul Weber:
All right. Take care.

David Read:
Bye-bye.

Paul Weber:
Be good.

David Read:
That is Paul Weber, everyone, casting director for Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, and Universe. If you enjoy Stargate and you wanna see more content like this on YouTube, do click that Like button. It does make a difference with the show and will continue to help us grow our audience. And if you know a Stargate fan out there who would enjoy watching this, send it their way. And clips from this episode will be released over the course of the next few weeks on both the Dial the Gate and GateWorld.net YouTube channels. We’ve got a lot of content that’s gonna be heading your way over the next few days. Content, we’ve got content. It’s whatever. Random stuff. No. I hate that term, that modern term. It’s like, “We have this next thing for you to plug into your brain, this next widget that’s not any better than or worse than the thing that came before it or will come after it, but it’s that thing that you’re just gonna plug it–” No. We’ve got some great stories to tell. Mark Savela is gonna be joining us tomorrow at 9:30 in the morning, Visual Effects Supervisor of Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, Universe. Ben Robinson, from Master Replicas, is gonna be showing off the prototype for the Zero Point Module that fans are going to be able to own later this year at 11:00 AM tomorrow. I need to reschedule it right now, because I’m actually gonna be in Toronto filming a certain project with a certain someone. But Aaron Douglas, who was probably best known for Chief Tyrol in Battlestar Galactica, has agreed to come on and talk about some of his early performances as an actor. Most notably Moac in Season Three’s “Maternal Instinct,” across from Tony Amendola and Christopher Judge. We’re gonna be having him on fairly soon here. Another episode with Stargate Worlds is coming your way. The complete story of what Stargate Worlds would have been, the MMORPG game. We have it all. Torri Higginson has narrated it. And I need someone to actually sit down with me and go through some screenshots from the show. So, if you have the show out there and you would like to go through with me and find all the screenshots to animate something very special, with Torri Higginson, reach out to me at [email protected], because there’s some cool things that are coming down the pike. We have a whole year and a half to get ready for this new series, and I’m delighted that you’re with us because we’ve got a lot of stories to uncover. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in, and I will see you on the other side.