Dial the Gate is privileged to welcome Stargate SG-1 Executive Producer and Writer Michael Greenburg to learn all about his career, his years on MacGyver, and his experience on the set of SG-1.

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Hello, and welcome to Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. It means a lot to me that you’ve joined us for this episode. Michael Greenburg, Stargate SG-1 Executive Producer and Writer, is joining us for this episode. I had Michael on for a brief amount of time, not nearly long enough. We spent half an hour talking, and I wasn’t able to use all of it. But there’s two segments: One, in the main conversation remembering Don S. Davis, and then a follow-up piece about half an hour long. Both of them are linked in the description below so that you can go and watch them, where he shared his memories of Don. He was one of the key people responsible for the day-to-day operations on the set of Stargate SG-1 for the first eight seasons, I believe. For eight seasons of the show. It means the world to me that he has taken time to come on and join us for what turned out to be about an hour-and-45-minute conversation of his life and his body of work. I invite you to join us for the next couple of hours, to settle in and hear the story of one of the key producers who were responsible for bringing so much of what we enjoy and love as fans to the screen. And to help me do that, I am bringing in a friend of mine, Kate Ritter of rdanderson.com, to help me fill in some of the MacGyver details where that partnership with Richard Dean Anderson began. So, let’s go ahead and bring them in. I am privileged today to welcome back two key pieces of the Stargate puzzle. Michael Greenburg, Executive Producer of Stargate SG-1, Writer of a couple of our most favorite episodes, and Director in his own right. Welcome back to Dial the Gate, sir. It’s a privilege to have you.

Michael Greenburg:
Pleasure.

David Read:
And I’m also privileged to have Kate Ritter of rdanderson.com, who has just celebrated 35 years of a correspondence with Richard Dean Anderson that has grown into this massive online resource for MacGyver and Stargate fans. Kate, welcome back.

Kate Ritter:
Thank you.

David Read:
It’s such a pleasure to have you guys here, because I really wanted to start off with talking a little bit about MacGyver first before we get into everything. Kate, how are things going with rdanderson.com? What’s in the hopper? What are your current plans? I know we talked a little bit about it offline about what your focus has been lately, but what’s going on?

Kate Ritter:
Well, I do still plan to work more on the MacGyver lexicon, which keeps getting set aside as I work on other projects. But mostly it’s become an archive since Rick has retired. He sends messages every now and then, and we get little bits of updates, and he does conventions. But there’s not so much new material to add to that. So, a lot of it is going back and archiving things from the past.

David Read:
Absolutely. I appreciate you being here to help me interview Michael for the first half of this show, because MacGyver is so critical a piece to the puzzle in his career in terms of bringing Stargate up to speed later. Michael, how is South Africa? How are things going? Just bring us up to speed real quick.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah. I just spent six weeks with my daughter in South Africa where she’s working and studying. She’s taking care of animals, rehabbing, re-wilding animals there. Most recently the big five type animals, but before that, she was involved with seven different species of monkeys. So, that’s her passion. She’s like a little Jane Goodall. But it was her 25th birthday, so we went down to Cape Town and had a fantastic time.

David Read:
Beautiful part of the world, if anyone listening, if you ever get a chance to travel, it’s a beautiful part of the world. Absolutely.

Michael Greenburg:
Agreed.

David Read:
I’m thrilled to have you back, sir. Kate, do you have the notes that you built here in front of you?

Kate Ritter:
Yes.

David Read:
OK. If you would like, I invite you to go ahead and start us off. I am not particularly good at creating questions in advance. So, I effectively, this is not the intent, pawned this one off to her. And it was, you know what? Because it starts off with your earlier career, Mike, anyway. And I wanted to give her first dibs at approaching this conversation. So, Kate, if you don’t mind getting us started.

Kate Ritter:
It’s good to see you, Mike. I was thinking back. I visited the MacGyver set a couple of times, but I don’t believe you were on set, director or producer at that time. So, I don’t think we actually met until Stargate.

Michael Greenburg:
I was on set…

Kate Ritter:
… from the beginning of… the end of Season One, beginning of Season Two of MacGyver in LA. So, I was–

Michael Greenburg:
… on set ever since then, so that was probably 1986.

Kate Ritter:
I don’t think… When I was on, we were on location the times I visited, and I don’t remember actually having a chance to talk to you.

Michael Greenburg:
In Los Angeles?

Kate Ritter:
So, now it’s my chance to talk MacGyver.

Michael Greenburg:
Sure.

David Read:
Was this in LA, Kate?

Kate Ritter:
We didn’t talk–

Michael Greenburg:
In LA or Vancouver?

Kate Ritter:
Both. The first time was in Vancouver. We were out at the pier on location. And the second time, we were somewhere downtown in LA.

Michael Greenburg:
Well, I was there …

Kate Ritter:
So, it–

Michael Greenburg:
… but I was probably staring at a monitor.

Michael Greenburg:
And then–

Kate Ritter:
Probably.

Michael Greenburg:
Not talking to very many people.

Kate Ritter:
By the time you and I got to talk, we were talking Stargate, so this is a chance …

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

Kate Ritter:
… to talk a little bit about MacGyver.

Michael Greenburg:
Absolutely.

Kate Ritter:
Would you like to talk about how you got involved? I mean, we’ve all heard …

Michael Greenburg:
Sure.

Kate Ritter:
… the story of how Rick got involved. He wore his glasses at the audition and he was hired.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

Kate Ritter:
But I don’t think… from what you’ve said in the past, I don’t think that you were actually involved in any of that. You came onto the show later.

Michael Greenburg:
Right.

Kate Ritter:
So, you wanna talk about that? And how you got with Rick?

Michael Greenburg:
I was at Warner Bros. When MacGyver started, I was at Warner Bros. with Newman/Englund Productions, Paul Newman and George Englund. During my stint there, Steve Downing was actually at Warner Bros. running the show T. J. Hooker. And then we got to be friends because our offices were right near each other at Warner Bros. And then Steve wrote and produced a pilot called Hollywood Star, starring Sharon Stone. And that was the obvious connection because Sharon and I were married. So, that’s when I really got to know Steve. And then, dissolve to a few months later, MacGyver, they were going over budget on the first season significantly. And I got a call from Steve: would I be interested in coming over to Paramount from Warner Bros. to help get the show back on track? And then I got a follow-up call from Mike Schoenbrun, who, I don’t know if you remember, but he was head of production for Paramount back then. And I had known him when I was at USC film school, so we had a relationship. And so, they both asked if I would come over and meet with them and Henry Winkler and John Rich and talk about what I would do to get MacGyver back on track financially and a little bit creatively, I guess. So, that’s how that evolved. I ended up… I thought I was just gonna go over there for a few months, and it ended up to be eight years. It was supposed to be a couple month thing, then I was gonna go back to Warner Bros. and live happily ever after. But anyway, I ended up staying at Paramount and, yeah, the rest is history, that old cliche. But I think that what clicked, what I remember in the interview with Henry and what we became in sync with, and then Rick also and I became in sync with, was, at the time, I don’t know if you remember the first season, but there was a lot of voiceover. Rick was spending a lot of time in the ADR sessions, studios, voice-overing pretty much everything that MacGyver was doing on camera. And I immediately chimed in in my initial meeting with the bigwigs over there. I said, “You know, to me, it sounds like a radio show.” It looks like a radio show if you’re visualizing it, and it sounded like a radio show ’cause he’s telling the audience everything he’s doing, to the point of, “I’m spreading open a paper clip.” And so, I bumped on that because of the visual filmmaker in me, and I said that you don’t have to be telling the audience what you’re doing because they’re seeing it.

David Read:
Yeah, he’s not doing a cooking show. They’re not practicing it at home in front of the TV.

Michael Greenburg:
So, I think that that alone, as I recall, endeared us all together and we started to move forward. And Rick was spending less and less time on the ADR stage, and we were able to attack each story and each filming day in that manner, telling, showing the story, having it all on screen instead of in voice.

Kate Ritter:
I know he hated doing those voiceovers, ’cause it took up so much time.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

Kate Ritter:
And he’s the only main cast you had, so he had to be there every day for the acting too.

Michael Greenburg:
I remember my first day was at the Queen… QE2 ship out in Long Beach. And I went out there to meet with him for the first time. And when I went into his motor home, he immediately gave me a big hug and thanked me for being there– That was day one. It just evolved from there. It was quite a fun ride. But a lot of hard work, but fun ride.

Kate Ritter:
You mentioned creative input, and there was quite a difference in tone between the first season and the second season. In the first season, MacGyver was sort of this lone wolf, government agent that got called in when nobody else could do the job. And by second season, he was now an employee of a think tank, and there was a different focus. Was that part of your decision-making as well?

Michael Greenburg:
I don’t think so. The Phoenix Foundation was, I think it was Steve Downing’s idea. I’m not 100% sure, and I don’t wanna annoy any of the other– writers, but I remember discussions back, we’re going back a few years, Kate. But I think that it was Steve Downing’s idea, I’m not sure, the Phoenix Foundation, because he felt it important to have a franchise location that stories could emanate from, like the CIA or DARPA, a think tank. Something like that that you could root the stories in, at least for the beginning, like a Mission Impossible tape. Something that the story, a place where the stories could emanate from.

David Read:
And have higher stakes as a result.

Kate Ritter:
Results?

Michael Greenburg:
Yes. Higher stakes, international, world stories.

Kate Ritter:
And even that changed over the years ’cause when the show started, it was the Cold War, and we had very clear good guys and bad guys and international missions. And when the Wall came down and the Cold War was ending, you needed to redirect your focus a little bit, so there was more social issues, more environmental issues, that sort of thing. Who was behind some of that direction for the change in–

Michael Greenburg:
We had such a great writing staff. I mean, we had so many great, talented creative writers and producers, with Steve and Henry Winkler and John Rich at the top, and then guys like Steve Kronish, who went on to do The Commish and various other big series. So, there was a lot of brainpower there. And we, as you sort-of hinted at, we decided to do a mix of storytelling. We did four or five save-the-animal shows. We had a relationship with Last Chance for Animals, that group of lawyers in LA, so we would each year decide on certain endangered species that we were going to tackle and tell stories about, like the black rhino, the spotted owl, the gray wolf, the American eagle. We did some pretty fabulous save-the-animal stories, which would make my daughter very happy, and I even got handwritten letters from people like Grace Slick from the Jefferson Airplane, thanking us for doing those types of shows. Very rewarding. And as you probably know, we ended up winning the first environmental film award, like you hinted at, on the environment. And we were given that award by Robert Redford. Rick and I were there onstage with him accepting the award. So, yeah, it was very rewarding series, an iconic series at this point. I mean, to this day, I’m associated with MacGyver and people are always talking about it. It’s so many people’s favorite show. I mean, I just was in South Africa, like David said, with my daughter Kenya, and we got her a car, and the car dealer brought up MacGyver. The salesman brought up MacGyver as saying that it was his… And he was from India and saying that it was his favorite show growing up.

David Read:
Did you guys prompt this in any way? Did you mention your background, and then he was like, “Oh, yes, that’s…”

Michael Greenburg:
I think so.

David Read:
“Okay, but he knew.”

Michael Greenburg:
I can’t remember how it came up. No, I don’t think he googled me or anything like that. But maybe he has since. But I forget how it came up in conversation, and then his reaction was, “That’s my favorite show as a kid. I grew up with it.” Yeah, so it’s, MacGyver’s out there. It’s in the dictionary, the Oxford Dictionary, the Webster. It’s now part of the lexicon of the world. I hear about it all the time.

Kate Ritter:
It’s also, and I can see it through my website ’cause I get lots of email from fans, and it’s not just the people who grew up with the show who still consider it a favorite. It’s people who are discovering it now in their teens, in their 20s, and people who were born long after the show went off the air and still consider it a favorite. So, it really is timeless in that respect.

Michael Greenburg:
I wish I had a percentage of the profits. It is timeless.

Kate Ritter:
You’ve had… Go ahead.

Michael Greenburg:
It’s great… great storytelling is timeless. If you tell a great story, it’s timeless. That’s what we try to do day in and day out.

David Read:
For sure. Cards on the table, I grew up watching the show, but very casually. So, my knowledge of the first time that I really paid close attention to Rick was a TV movie called Pandora’s Clock, which I was just fascinated with. But I was still very cognizant of who was with MacGyver. So, Michael, I wasn’t entirely sure of the birth of the real kinship between the two of you, because you were on set with him every day– so making this show happen. What do you think was the alchemy between the two of you that made it so that it was like, “OK, this is the beginning of a partnership that is going to last in-” it ended up lasting into the future. What do you think was that alchemy, that connection? Did you guys just get each other? Was there just a …

Michael Greenburg:
It wasn’t right away.

David Read:
… a casual shorthand that developed right away? Because I wanna see how this–

Michael Greenburg:
It wasn’t right away. But I think over time, over the first season and maybe the first couple seasons, he saw the shared sensibility that we each had for dialogue, action, storytelling, rewriting his, or polishing I should say, not rewriting, but polishing some of his dialogue and polishing some of his actions on camera. We shared a common sensibility for the MacGyver character and Rick’s portrayal of that character that I think clicked. So, he basically knew that I had his back and was supportive in what he was doing in character, and even when he would branch out and do stuff a little different than the character. Like when we did those Westerns and he created that MacGyver character, which evolved into the philosophy of Legend, the series we did– after or before Stargate. So, he knew that he could trust me to sort of be there for him and shepherd the production and filming, whichever direction he went in, you know? Because I trusted him, he trusted me, so there was the common trust there. And then we would, together, work with the director of the episode and the cinematographer, whether it was Bill Gereghty, and then all the guys that followed. And then the different directors that came and went each episode, ’cause you know they changed. We didn’t deal with one director all the time. The directors were constantly changing, every seven, eight days it’s a new director. So, I was the constant. I was the constant person who was always there and with Rick and I, we held the reins of this, it’s like driving a six-up horse wagon, where you’ve got reins in each hand and you’re trying to control it all going down the road. But the two of us just sort of kept it together, with a lot of help from our episodic directors, our cinematographers, and the 250 other crew members that were… We got to be a family that just worked 24/7, 365 for eight seasons on MacGyver. Seven seasons and then two TV movies in London. And we even got the London crew to think that way and work that way. So, it becomes contagious on the set, really. And I’ve heard about that a lot from a lot of people that have worked with us over the years and I’ve run back into. So, it can be a very impactful business when it’s done right.

David Read:
For sure. Kate?

Kate Ritter:
You’ve talked about your being on the set all the time and kind of overseeing everything. And you’ve referred to yourself as a filmmaker, rather than a writer or producer or director, all the various hats you’ve worn. How do you describe that kind of role? Is it like juggling all these different roles, or is it a different vision, a different approach to something? How do you see yourself different as a filmmaker?

Michael Greenburg:
The Oxford Dictionary says, “A filmmaker is someone who produces and directs film for theaters and television.” So, it’s that simple. I don’t look at myself as– Maybe what you’re thinking about is a Steven Spielberg or a Francis Ford Coppola, or those kind of, or Scorsese filmmaker. I’m more, it’s more definitive for me. It’s more, that’s just what I do. That’s just … you know, I might as well be a mechanic. But it’s not, I don’t look at being called a filmmaker… I refer to myself as a filmmaker ’cause that’s what I do for a living. And it’s basically in the dictionary as that, just producing and directing films for theaters and television. Maybe not that glamorous is what you’re thinking of. For me, it’s more nuts and bolts, but it’s being conversant… For me it’s being… I went to film… I started studying film when I was in high school. I had a best friend, Kenny Nye, who we formed a little company together called Big Pix, which I still use as my company today. Unfortunately, he passed away in a car accident when we were young. But I continued that, you know, our company forward to this day. I still use it. But I started making films with him when we were in high school, and we did… His father was president of the Presbyterian Church, and he gave us this budget to do this film called “The History of the Presbyterian Church,” which we did for ABC Directions. That was really my first go-round in the filmmaking process, because I was… Kenny was directing, I was his assistant director, but I also had to run the sound some days because the sound guy didn’t show up. And then I went to USC, and that’s where I got more into it. And after USC, I got an opportunity to be on the World Pro Skiing Circuit for a ski company, Kästle Skis, Nordica Boots, and Look Bindings, running a ski team. Three years traveling around the world, this is right when I graduated USC, so 1973, ‘4, ‘5, and ‘6. I was on this ski tour handling this pro ski team day in and day out, and we were being filmed a lot by the different networks, ABC for one. And the reason I bring that up is because, as David knows, later in my life, the last 10 years, I’ve been producing and directing film series for the National Hockey League, the NHL. Quest for the Stanley Cup, Road to the Winter Classic, Wired, NHL Revealed. ‘Cause my brother, Ross Greenburg, the two-time Hall of Famer, Ross Greenburg, he’s in the Boxing Hall of Fame and the Television Hall of Fame, he was… In 2012, he was named the Head of Original Programming for the NHL. ‘Cause when he had left HBO, but at HBO, he had a series called 24/7, which was a behind-the-scenes series that was pretty successful in the world of boxing, leading up to the big boxing matches that he would do. He’s also in the Boxing Hall of Fame. This was after Stargate. He asked me to come on board to be the guy on-set producing and directing these series, Quest for the Stanley Cup, Road to the Winter Classic, Wired, like I said, NHL Revealed. And it was actually… To bring it all around, it was actually my three seasons on the World Pro Skiing Tour that got me intimately involved with seeing how behind-the-scenes actually worked from the pro athletes’ point of view. So, when I was given the camera to shoot those kinds of shows, I had three years of knowledge of what it was like behind-the-scenes and how to approach the professional athletes and the coaches. So, it sort-of all came full circle. That’s probably way more information that you were looking for, Kate, but that’s the gist.

Kate Ritter:
Really thinking in terms of Spielberg or Lucas or any of those guys, I was thinking that a filmmaker needs to be able to manage everybody’s job at once. You need to know how to do the lighting and the sound and the… So, I wasn’t sure if you’re seeing things globally rather than a narrow focus on what a director does or a producer.

Michael Greenburg:
No, that’s a good–

Kate Ritter:
How you interpreted that.

Michael Greenburg:
No, that’s a good point. You’re right. And I think that if there’s anything that I’m known for, and the reason that I was, I think, successful at the major studios, like Warner Bros., Paramount, and then MGM, is because the heads of production knew that I was conversant in all, say, 100, 150 aspects of the filmmaking process. They knew that if they hired me, I knew how to take raw stock in the day. Now it’s digital chips. But they knew that I was conversant with all the processes and knew that I could actually deliver something of quality at the end. So, that’s probably why I got the jobs.

David Read:
Can you tell me… I’m very curious. Actually, you and I met for the first time in 2003 at a Gatecon event.

Michael Greenburg:
I remember. I had dark hair.

David Read:
You do?

Michael Greenburg:
I did.

David Read:
You remember me?

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah, I do. I remember the interview. I remember the whole thing. It was the first time–

David Read:
Oh, that was the next year. Yes. We met–

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah. Oh, that was the next year.

David Read:
We actually met a year before. I was in line to see you. And I asked you one question, and I said …

Michael Greenburg:
What was the question?

David Read:
… “Why Gecko?” And you told me the a brief little story, but Kate actually …

Michael Greenburg:
It’s a good story.

David Read:
… tee’d this up here. How did it …

Michael Greenburg:
It’s a good story.

David Read:
… come about?

Michael Greenburg:
OK, this is a really good story. You’re gonna love this. Rick and I, when we decided to form a company, the first name we came up with… Because Rick had this kinda stuffed doll that was a pig dog. So, Rick thought that would be a great name for a production company, Pig Dog Productions. So, we went with that… until our agent, Leigh Brillstein, said, “You know, I’m not sure that’s a great name for your production company. I’m not sure you’re gonna be taken very seriously.” Anyway, we pondered that for a while. But then we were on a hiatus in Tahiti together, ’cause that’s what we used to do. We’d have a couple weeks off between seasons, and one year we went to Tahiti. And there was this moment where Rick was lying on his back and a gecko jumped onto his stomach, and then crawled up his stomach toward his chest, and looked up at Rick. And Rick made eye contact with the gecko, and they made eye contact and related, and then the gecko took off. And then, I think it was the next day, Rick told me about this encounter. And then we looked into the myth and legend of a gecko. And in Tahiti, the geckos are known for keeping one eye on the road and one eye on the future. Their eyes can actually move independently of each other. The left one can move up, the right one can move down. So, the legend is they keep one eye on the road and one eye on the future, and we thought that would be a good name for a company, and that’s how Gekko happened. Pretty good, huh? No one’s ever asked that before, at least of me, but maybe Rick has told people.

David Read:
That’s cool.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

David Read:
It’s these little moments like that that define us, and when you’re given a gift like that, in nature… you run with it.

Kate Ritter:
You touched on one other thing I was gonna go back to. We’ve been talking about fan feedback, and again, comparing from the MacGyver era in the ’80s, before anyone had computers or cell phones, to Stargate, when all of that was very prevalent, you got instant feedback. Can you talk a little bit about your relationship with the fans during MacGyver? How did you get feedback? How did you hear what fans wanted? And then, did that influence you in any way as you wrote the stories?

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah. I mentioned the Grace Slick fan thing. We didn’t have a big… We were working so much, as you know, it felt like 24/7, 365. We were either on the set, or in a writing room, or a conference room, or the art department. We were either conceptualizing stuff, writing stuff, rewriting stuff, breaking stuff down, deciding how we were gonna shoot things with the different directors and cameramen and stuff. So, we were so consumed by the process, we didn’t have a lot of interaction with the public. Rick did, when he would go out and do stuff. But as far as us in the company and on set, we didn’t have a lot of interaction. But the times that we did were very meaningful. Like I said, the save the animal episodes really got a lot of attention. So, we would get… At that time, before emails and stuff, we’d get a lot of letters. We had great PR people that would tell us about stuff. And then we did that episode, “The Runaway,” and we created the first runaway hotline. MacGyver created that. That started with MacGyver, probably our third season maybe, or fourth season. But that whole 1-800-Runaway phone number for kids who were either abused at home and were out running away and homeless, they had a phone line to call. We started that. So, yeah. It was an impactful show. But as far as fan feedback, it wasn’t in my loop. Maybe Henry Winkler would know more about that than I, because he was out there a lot talking to fans and people, ’cause of his appearances and stuff. But I didn’t appear anywhere except for on the set.

David Read:
For sure.

Kate Ritter:
I bring it up because it was partly how I got involved with the show. I was a teacher, and so I saw the impact that the show had on kids. And my students wrote letters as part of a letter-writing exercise in Language Arts and got an answer from Rick. And that was how the whole thing started. And so, I had opportunities to talk to people in the production office, or in the front office, or any other. And I did hear some stories about letters you got from teachers and from environmental organizations, but I didn’t know how that filtered down and might have influenced where the show was going.

Michael Greenburg:
I’m sure it was a big influence. And I remember when you started there. I remember that. I remember those times, and I think that probably they would go to Steve… Either to Henry or to Steve Downing, and then they would get deciphered down to the writing staff, myself, as potential storylines.

David Read:
I really wanted to know, Mike, what is… How do I wanna put this? When you were producing MacGyver, was there ever an issue of, “Gosh, we’ve done this now. How do we come up with another way to get him out of a box?” Did you ever feel like, through that run of that series, if we keep attacking it this way, this is going to seem really unrealistic? Or was it just the dynamic of the show? Like, this was the kind of configuration of this series. He would encounter a problem and have to come up with a way to get himself out of it. Or was it always, like, “Oh, man! We’ve got so many ideas for how to do this coming in. We just need to pick one.” What was the kind of– That was probably more the creative side of things, but as an exercise on set, you were watching these things happen. And which MacGyverism was your favorite?

Michael Greenburg:
We worked that stuff out months before filming. Usually. But I’ll tell you some fun stuff. We were fortunate to have advisors like John Koivula and John Potter. Potter was the guy that I worked with closely. And his expertise is in creating clean rooms for nuclear facilities. He’s a genius. The writers and myself and Steve would get together months before the season started, and we would start hammering out ideas and boxing MacGyver into certain situations… that we felt needed a lot of prep time to figure out either the chemistry or physics of it all that we would have to tackle on the day. But that’s months in advance. So, it was pretty well prepped. Occasionally, something wouldn’t work, and I’ll tell you one funny thing that happened on a stage at Paramount in LA, seventh season I think. A MacGyverism didn’t… a gunshot… He was gonna do a, he had to come up with a way to do a gunshot, and he was averse to guns. No guns ever in MacGyver’s hands or anything. He didn’t believe in them. That was a big concept of the character in the show. But he needed a distraction of a gunshot, and it might’ve been Rick who came up with this idea. I don’t even remember, but I was standing with him, and we were in a warehouse on a set on stage at Paramount, and he took a two-by-four piece of wood, and he held it in his hand like this, and then with his foot on the bottom part of it. And he let go of the hand and slammed it down, and in the sound stage, it sounded just like a gunshot. So, we went with that. So, that was, that happened at gunpoint, so to speak, ’cause we were filming it right there, and we needed a gunshot distraction to get a bad guy going the other direction. So, some stuff happened spontaneously, and some stuff was months before. But we had the fortunate ability to have guys like John Potter in our hip pocket to… I had him on my favorite speed dial to call if I ever needed some help on the set because something wasn’t happening or working.

David Read:
Were you–

Michael Greenburg:
We had a lot of great minds at work there. Like I said, it took 250 people to do it.

David Read:
Were you ever saying to yourself, “Nah, this is not gonna do what they say it’s going to do.” Were you ever blown away by something that you saw in Video Village? It’s just like …

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

David Read:
… “I cannot wait to see if this is going to do what everyone says scientifically and physics-wise and everything else this is going to do.”

Michael Greenburg:
You know what really blew my mind? I forget the episode. You probably know, or Kate. There was an episode where… Was it out of a cake or something that these darts had to fly out, multiple darts around a circular, I think it was a cake or something. And MacGyver set it off, and I don’t even remember why or how or what the scene was. But I remember being blown away because to capture that MacGyverism moment, we had to find a camera that could shoot 600 frames per second at the time– Now, this is before digital. This is with film. So, we had to find a Photo-Sonics camera, which Jim Menard had. And Jim Menard ended up becoming one of our cinematographers on Stargate, if you know. But it was Jim, that was how I met Jim Menard. He had the Photo-Sonics camera that gave us the ability to actually see these darts fly out from this MacGyverized cake or something. And that blew my mind. Because we had the camera mounted from the ceiling down to get the darts spraying out. And I was concerned that, “Oh, shit.” At 30 frames per second, 60 frames, or even 90 frames per second, you’re not gonna see these darts. ‘Cause I knew about frame rate and slow mo[tion], and super slow mo. We literally had to find a camera that could shoot 600 frames per second to do that. So, yeah, that was still etched in my mind. I haven’t thought of that in 30 years.

David Read:
Kate, do you recall the scene he’s talking about?

Kate Ritter:
I think it was the bird cage.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

Kate Ritter:
The musical Bird Cage or something.

Michael Greenburg:
You’re right.

Kate Ritter:
And with the …

Michael Greenburg:
You’re right. Was there a cobra?

Kate Ritter:
… with the snake involved, yeah.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

David Read:
Oh my God. I’m gonna look up this episode afterward. I want to see this.

Kate Ritter:
I think it’s season [inaudible].

Michael Greenburg:
Great, Kate. Yeah, you’re right.

David Read:
Wow. That’s something.

Kate Ritter:
I hadn’t heard that story before, though, about the camera.

Michael Greenburg:
Yup. And that’s how I met Jim Menard. And then Dissolve to… So, that was probably 1988, ’89, something like that. Then Dissolve to 1996-7, Stargate. We hired Jim to be one of our alternating cinematographers.

David Read:
The number of behind-the-scenes talent that you guys brought with you from one production to the other, in some respects, there wasn’t really a… from the people that I’ve talked with in some respects it is, one day they were shooting MacGyver and a couple of days later they were shooting SG-1. There’s so many of those people behind the camera. Who did you rely on that we’ve mentioned Jim, that you brought with you into Stargate?

Michael Greenburg:
Dan Shea, stunt coordinator. Dan Shea. One of our best friends and always delivered. Basically, when you’re with people for so long and they deliver quality, you stick with ’em. At least I do.

David Read:
That’s right.

Michael Greenburg:
But I think everyone in that business does. Everyone does. Scorsese, the great filmmakers, they all stick with their people who deliver for them. Spielberg’s known for that. Scorsese’s known for that. But even television producers, when you have department heads or anybody on set that delivers quality day in, day out, and they’re there for you through thick and thin, you bring ’em back, because why mess with success? Just bring ’em back. Scott Ateah in stunts, Jim Menard. I’d have to think about who else, but–

David Read:
I put you on the spot. That’s my fault. I apologize. There’s so many …

Michael Greenburg:
So many.

David Read:
… amazing folks. The one that stands out in my mind, who’s in the front of the camera, was Don.

Michael Greenburg:
And you and I have talked about that at length.

David Read:
Could you reiterate a little bit of that …

Michael Greenburg:
Sure.

David Read:
… here before we cross into Stargate? ‘Cause I think that that’s–

Michael Greenburg:
Don was doubling Dana Elcar, who was the second lead in MacGyver. And so, we had a great friendship. And he was also a stunt double for Dana. And then a decade later, when we were casting the General for Stargate Command, I forget how Don’s name came up. Maybe you know? I forget exactly how it up, but I can tell you that it was a resounding, “Yes, that’s our guy.” Because you know Don really well. Don, if Don was a real general, you’d go to war for him.

David Read:
You would follow that man into battle.

Michael Greenburg:
You’d follow that man into battle. Don was the greatest, strongest, nicest, most genuine guy on the planet. He was unanimous choice. I don’t even remember anyone else being on the list, to be honest with you.

David Read:
Brad Wright agrees.

Michael Greenburg:
Totally.

Michael Greenburg:
It was always Don. And Don, he’s that special. And like I said, if it was a real time war situation, you’d go to battle for him. You’d go to another planet for him, you’d travel in a wormhole for him. You’d do whatever it takes for Don. He was that kinda guy, and the spirit was huge.

David Read:
And you said he never had… He jokes. I went back and watched a little bit of the interview that we shot with him in — God, brains don’t fail me, I think it was ’06, ’07 — and he joked about the fact that he would sometimes take a lot of takes. And from your recollection, he was kidding.

Michael Greenburg:
No.

David Read:
That wasn’t the case.

Michael Greenburg:
No. I don’t remember a lot of takes with Don. He was always a one-take guy, as far as I remember. I don’t remember doing a lot of retakes for him at all. He was gold.

David Read:
He was gold. Absolutely.

David Read:
Kate, do you have anything that you wanna wrap up with Mike before we say goodbye to you?

Kate Ritter:
No, I don’t think so. I had a couple of questions that I gave to you about comparing what it was like working in ’80s television versus high definition and special effects.

Michael Greenburg:
That’s a good point, Kate. There is a big difference. We made the transition from film to digital; actually, we were one of the pioneers of it with the Genesis Camera on Stargate. Obviously, MacGyver was all film. But then on Stargate, the Genesis Camera happened, which was a combination of Sony and Panavision getting together and creating this digital camera. Now, that first Genesis Camera was not just a camera. It had an umbilical cord of cables that led to this bank of equipment, that if we dollied the camera, we had to dolly this bank of equipment with an umbilical cord with it. So, we had two dolly tracks. So, double the grips, double the dolly grips, and we had to, it was a pain. So, we made that transition, but we stuck with it. It was hard. And I remember being in the GVRD, which is this forest, and having to lay two dolly tracks to do this simple tracking shot with this Genesis Camera. But yeah, we made the transition to digital. And what that enabled us to do, what digital, as everyone knows now, enabled you to do was be able to do pretty complex visual effects, computer-generated effects, pre-compositing, meaning a frame that you’re seeing now, we would shoot a corner of it, or half of it on stage, and then the other half in Stargate would be another world. Or not even half, you could maybe even just shoot a little piece of the frame, but then to fill out the frame, it was all computer-generated. So, the digital world enabled us to do that in a financially possible way for television. Which, if we were still on film, it would have been very difficult to pull off some of the other worlds that we pulled off, and the visual effects and the incredible action sequences, with other worlds falling to the wayside below you as they’re going through this action sequence. So, digital gave us the opportunity to do that. And we ended up having, I don’t know, 20-some-odd visual effects people in our company. We lost a lot to ILM in San Rafael, because as they got more and more known on Stargate, they’d be handpicked, so we’d have to find more. But it gave us the ability to do pretty cool stuff. But that’s what also made it very challenging on set, is now you’re not just managing the filming of a scene. You’re now managing this incredible digital matrix of shots. ‘Cause sometimes there were 15 to 30 elements in one frame of so-called film. We had storyboards, all kinds of stuff to get through it. But the digital world made all that possible on a television budget, and I think we were one of the pioneers of that. Must have been, ’cause …

David Read:
Yes.

Michael Greenburg:
… that camera sure felt like we were pioneers.

David Read:
So, 2000, Season Four, there was an episode called “Entity.” It was pretty much completely self-contained inside of SGC, and Carter gets taken over by an AI from another world, and that was the episode that we found out later on was shot digitally. It was a test for this technology. I’m guessing that was the Genesis camera at this point, before it became used, in Season Eight forward, you guys were doing HD at that point.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

David Read:
But talk about being on the frontier. It’s marvelous what you guys pulled off over the course of that run.

Michael Greenburg:
It was. It was a great moment in television and film history to be there during all that. And having all the tech-savvy people that came from Panavision and Sony to get it all done, it was a great time. It was an interesting time, and we were all… I don’t know if you remember this magazine called Cinefex?

David Read:
Yes.

Michael Greenburg:
Cinefex? That was… I was consumed by that. I would read it every night because it was… I don’t even know if it exists anymore, but it broke down how everyone shot everything. And we needed that. We needed that. I vaguely knew what a pre-composite was from my schooling and education, but until you’re actually doing it, until you’re actually looking at a storyboard and filming just a piece of the frame, and then you can see it all come together, it’s pretty amazing.

David Read:
That’s true. Kate, I wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming on and helping me with this episode because I really wanted someone with a MacGyver background who would do that series justice before we moved into Stargate. It means so much to me that you came on to help with this.

Michael Greenburg:
Me too.

Kate Ritter:
Of course.

Michael Greenburg:
Kate knows more about MacGyver than I’ll ever know.

David Read:
Everyone check out rdanderson.com. Rick uses that as his public-facing portal, and for all kinds of information on MacGyver and Stargate locations. Very valuable resource. I recommend that you check it out. So, thank you, Kate.

Michael Greenburg:
Thanks, Kate.

Kate Ritter:
Thank you.

David Read:
We talked about Don earlier. I think it would be an oversight, technically and profoundly, to not mention Legend. Had Legend been successful, Jack O’Neill would have gone to someone else.

Michael Greenburg:
True.

David Read:
And I am a huge John de Lancie fan, and we were lucky enough to have him in the show for Season Five. He came in and did an arc. What was the magic of that show, as far as you were concerned, and was it gutting that it didn’t move forward the way it did? What were your recollections of Legend, if I may ask?

Michael Greenburg:
The irony of my career, and I think Rick would say the same, is that we did two of television’s most iconic long-running series in MacGyver and Stargate, but our favorite was Legend, this funny series that only went one limited season. But it was so special, so unique. Written by Michael Piller from Star Trek …

David Read:
Yep.

Michael Greenburg:
… and Bill Dial from WKRP in Cincinnati. So, there you go. There’s the combo play. And it was just this real quirky, fun, I guess you’d call it a Western. But it was more than a Western. Rick’s character was, or characters, you know, he played John Pratt, which was… John Pratt? No, Ernest Pratt. Sorry. He played this character Ernest Pratt, an instinct wretch of a dime novel writer who happened to write these novels like Ned Buntline, where he used his own picture as the hero. But the character that he wrote about, called Legend, was this superhero that would ride into town or drive into town on a steam-powered car, and solved whatever problem the town was having. It was just so much fun. So, much fun. I had so much fun just watching Rick play these characters ’cause he’s really good at playing an instinct wretch of an alcoholic womanizing gambler. So, maybe that wasn’t that much of a stretch for him. But then he would evolve into this Legend character, this funny hero, all dressed up hero. And it was just so much fun to watch. I was just grinning every day. I couldn’t wait to get to the set. I couldn’t wait to be there and watch these scenes evolve and this character evolve. He was having the most fun of his life. I would bet, to this day, it was the most fun he’s ever had on set doing anything. And to the credit of Piller and Dial, they let us do our thing. It wasn’t written that way. It was written more like Bat Masterson. And I didn’t even think Bat Masterson was even a parenthetical in the original pilot script. But we crossed that out, and Rick made it his own. There were few little bumps in the beginning, but they really let us and Rick do his thing. And it was hilarious. It was hilarious. Have you seen them all?

David Read:
I haven’t, and you’ve convinced me to now pretty much drop everything and watch it. I didn’t realize that it was your favorite. Yes.

Michael Greenburg:
You can buy it on Amazon. Amazon has the box set. It’s all on one DVD now.

David Read:
I think it’s streaming on Prime if I’m not mistaken. I’ll find where it is.

Michael Greenburg:
It is a hoot. It is so much fun.

David Read:
100%.

Michael Greenburg:
We did stuff like “Knee High Noon.” These were titles. “Death and Life of Wild Bill Hickok.” It just had very… Every title and every story was a fun spin on history. And we just had a blast doing it. So, that’s the irony is the shortest series we did was the most fun. It would… In retrospect, we got to do Stargate after that, so no hard feelings. But it would have been nice to have had Legend have its long run, which it deserved.

David Read:
Absolutely.

Michael Greenburg:
Maybe we bring it back. Let’s bring it back, David.

David Read:
I would be down for that. Absolutely.

Michael Greenburg:
Good.

David Read:
Especially if… You can tell when Rick is really into a story. There is this twinkle in his… Not that he’s ever phoning it in, ’cause he’s not, but there’s this extra twinkle. When he’s across from someone like Tom McBeath or Ronnie Cox, the man is chewing up the scene. It’s like, “Oh, man, this ‘O’Neill, two Ls.'”

Michael Greenburg:
Well, on Legend, it was like that every second. The twinkle was there every second because he was having the time of his life. We all were. It was incredible. Everyone should watch it.

David Read:
Absolutely. There is–

Michael Greenburg:
Forget White Lotus, watch Legend.

David Read:
Before I get further into SG-1, I’ve been privileged, and the rest of us fans watching on this side, to receive so many wonderful anecdotes and stories over the years from this production. And I must say that this isn’t the only show that I’ve covered in this kind of a format before, but when it comes to Stargate, the people who are involved, when we start talking about it, lean back, and they have this place for it in their hearts that is separate from a lot of the work that they did. And I cannot tell you, Mike, time and again, the number of times where people have come onto this show to talk about it, “You know what?… that was something special. That was really special. That was a slice of time in my life that I got to do something that was … that didn’t feel like a job, that didn’t feel … It was hard, but it didn’t feel like people were beating their heads against the wall.”

Michael Greenburg:
No.

David Read:
One after another, they attribute that to Richard Dean Anderson, Michael Greenburg, Brad Wright, Rob Cooper, and Jonathan Glassner. But particularly, the ones who were on set, there was no bullshit. It was, “We’re here. We’re gonna have a good time. We’re gonna work hard, but life’s too short.” If you’re not enjoying the process, why are you doing it? Find something that you love. You are worth finding something that you love. And if it’s not here, you’ll find it somewhere. But if you’re here, if you’re a part of this crowd, we’re gonna rib one another a little bit and we’re gonna get our day. And that was set at the top, and I think that you are a huge chunk of that.

Michael Greenburg:
Thank you.

David Read:
So, I have to pat you on the back for setting up an environment. I think you said at some point, “Happy campers, happy camp.” And that’s really what it is. You cultivated a good space.

Michael Greenburg:
And it goes back to MacGyver and Legend and Stargate. That’s kind of the way Rick and I roll. It’s hard enough to actually make the shots and make the scenes and tell the story. So, you gotta enjoy it along the way or what’s the point? It may have been Rick, and I sort of leading the circus, but it takes all the performers to have a great show.

David Read:
When did you hear about Stargate SG-1 being developed? Was it when Rick got the offer? Take me back.

Michael Greenburg:
I got a call. I got a call from John Symes who was president of MGM at the time. This is right after Legend. Was it after Legend? Rick and I had just come back. We had just come back from doing The Firehouse two-hour pilot movie with Tom Fontana in New York City. We had just done that and Les Moonves didn’t pick it up for a series. It was a TV movie that was supposed to be a pilot for a series. Tom Fontana, he did Oz and Homicide. And it goes all the way back to St. Elsewhere. Good friend of mine, I’ve known him forever, because Bruce Paltrow was also my mentor coming out of school, and Bruce was a mentor of Tom Fontana’s. So, we all knew each other through Bruce Paltrow. So, we had just finished that two-hour pilot, and it didn’t go to series. It should’ve, ’cause it was about a rescue firehouse in New York City five years before 9/11 and it would’ve been a first responding firehouse for 9/11. It was way ahead of its time. And we cast people … Before Sopranos, we cast Michael Imperioli, Edie Falco. They were in series before Sopranos. So, we had an incredible cast. Morris Chestnut was in it. Incredible cast. Anyway, long story short, that didn’t happen. So, we’re back in LA and I get a call from John Symes that they’re gonna make the movie Stargate into a series. Would Rick and I be interested? So, he asked me to run it by Rick. So, I ran it by Rick and Rick said no. He goes, “I can’t play that jarhead character like Kurt Russell did.”

David Read:
His hair was straight up.

Michael Greenburg:
Kurt was great but, “I can’t play that.” I think he used the term jarhead. “That’s not me.” So, I had to call Symes back and say, “No, it’s a pass. Rick doesn’t think he can play that character.” And then Symes says, “Well, tell Rick he can make the character whatever he wants.” So, I called… Have you heard this story?

David Read:
Nope.

Michael Greenburg:
So, I called Rick back and I said, “John said you can make the character anything you want.” So, he thought about it more, and then I think John called back and said, “By the way, there’s a 44-episode commitment. So, you’re guaranteed 44 episodes.” And I think that’s when we said, “OK, yeah, we’ll do it.”

David Read:
For sure.

Michael Greenburg:
‘Cause at the time, I was in the running for Buffy the Vampire Slayer for six episodes, and then John came in with the 44. And then, as you probably know, we were not even in the second season and Showtime upped it to 88.

David Read:
It was still in development in the first season and you guys upped it to 88. And by, I think, the second season, you were signed on for a fifth year.

Michael Greenburg:
It was then.

David Read:
It happened very fast and this would be unheard of now. They make all kinds of promises and then pull them now, frankly.

Michael Greenburg:
‘Cause now it’s all limited series.

David Read:
Exactly. But even then, they think that this thing has legs. The Outer Limits, Poltergeist. MGM was shooting all this stuff in Bridge very successfully. And it was syndicating very well ’cause that’s how I discovered it. And they, I think they recognized that the MGM catalog was a gold mine and Stargate was a big deal. Had you seen the film in advance?

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

David Read:
Would you consider yourself a sci-fi fan, either geek or casual?

Michael Greenburg:
No, not even, no. I did go to see Star Wars when it first came out. I sat next to Cary Grant. That’s all I remember about Star Wars, premiering in Century City, was sitting next to Cary Grant. But no, I was not a big sci-fi fan. I became one, obviously, doing it. That’s why I said I’m so obsessed with this magazine, Cinefex, because that’s… I had to dive into it full-time, big-time.

David Read:
Rick had made his stance on guns pretty crystal-clear. Was there ever a concern, “OK, I’m gonna have to fire one if I’m representing this US Air Force paramilitary unit?”

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

David Read:
Or was it just, “This is who this guy is. It’s going to fit because he’s defending his people and defending civilians.”

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah, it was all about the character. I think that Rick shares a lot of similarities and sensibilities to the MacGyver character, as far as animal rights and gun control and all that. But if you’re in the service, you gotta be able to shoot a P90. And he liked shooting P90s. So, it’s defense. We were part of the Air Force. The Stargate was part of the Air Force. I’m an Air Force brat. I was born at Lackland Air Force Base.

David Read:
My understanding was — fact check me if I’m wrong here — that the US Air Force wasn’t involved from the get-go. They got involved a little bit later, or is that wrong?

Michael Greenburg:
I kind of remember them always being involved. Because the PR person was always a contact of mine. I could be wrong, but I always thought it was from day one. Maybe Wright would know maybe more on that. I always had to deal with the PR guys. Brad had to get the scripts approved by them. I don’t know when that started though. You might be right, it might have been later.

David Read:
Yeah, I should have done a little more research into that because I’ve heard a couple of different things. One of my huge, I want to have Doug Thar on so bad. You could lean on those people to get a lot of those details correct in terms of making sure the protocols were followed. The huge Jack and Sam shipper fandom, it’s enormous. A lot of those folks are like, “Can’t we just please get them together?” and it’s like “they can’t, he’s her superior officer. It wouldn’t work.” You had checks and balances in place to make sure the story was authentic because you guys wanted it to be authentic.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah. There’s a regimen to everything. And also, they allowed us to film in Cheyenne Mountain. Inside Cheyenne Mountain, which is incredible. One of the most secure places on the planet we were able to film at and in. The Air Force, they gave us a lot. Plus, they gave us the use of fighter jets, two Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, at different times, John Jumper and Mike Ryan appeared on our show. I became friends with them. Mike Ryan is actually from San Antonio where I’m from. John Jumper and I became friends. Both real-life Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs, and four-star, I think Jumper might even have been a five-star general, I think the last five-star general. But anyway, they were part of the show. We cast them as themselves. So, The Air Force, the uniforms… I think we were one of the first people to be able to use a P90, I referred to earlier. We were one of the first television shows to actually get that gun and were able to use it on screen. Like when it first came out. We got a lot of assets from being an Air Force show. They really let us tell our stories. But they did from time to time keep it in line as far as the regimen of it all is concerned.

David Read:
Tell me about working with Amanda Tapping.

Michael Greenburg:
Just the nicest person in the world. Just so amazing. Her Carter just speaks for itself. She’s just a joy. Always 100% prepared. Knew her character, knew her lines, delivered the scene better than you can ever imagine. Just awesome. Awesome person, awesome actress. And now great director.

David Read:
In her own right. I haven’t been able to get her on in five seasons, it’s not because she doesn’t want to come on, she does, she’s told me such, she’s just so busy. She is in her world. It’s hard to feel sad about that because she’s doing what she wants to do. She’s earned every bit of it herself. I remember her having a conversation pretty early on about some the earlier episodes in Season One where it felt like they were writing Carter as a woman. And she had had a conversation fairly early on, referencing the folks like Sigourney Weaver and some of these other sci-fi staples. It’s like, “Just write the character based on the situation. And by virtue of me being a woman, those traits will manifest.” And you could see very early on that was a note that was considered. And I think by midway through that first season, much, much faster than a lot of shows could indicate, those characters are pretty much completely formed after just a few episodes. Some sooner than others, but that’s a great cast.

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah. She was amazing. Day in, day out, you could count on her. She was never an issue, which is important. At times, we were like that plate-spinning guy on the Ed Sullivan Show, where you’ve got 20 plates spinning all over the stage, and hers, we never had to worry about.

David Read:
And it’s a lot of dialogue that she was holding in her hands. It has to come out exactly right, and not only that, but you have to believe it. And she made it believable.

Michael Greenburg:
And Michael too on the same note. They carried a lot of dialogue, ’cause Rick and Chris didn’t. But they had the bulk of the pipe, so to speak, to lay the story down, and they were brilliant at it, ’cause they were Carter and Daniel Jackson, and they were just perfect.

David Read:
It took me a long time to, I think, admit to myself that my favorite character is Daniel. There’s so much of the soul of that team is Daniel Jackson. And Michael was very young when he started. He convinced me, 14 years old at the time, that he was James Spader for, for a few scenes until I was like, “OK, wait a second.” It was that convincing a performance because he just receded into that role and made it his own. The haircut went away, and a lot of the sneezing and things fell by the wayside. And I guess Daniel found allergy medication, but that was an amazing part, and he really made it his.

Michael Greenburg:
You’re right, and you know what? He did it from the audition on. It was like that in the audition. It was like we saw so many different people, and it was no doubt Michael Shanks in that role. He nailed it.

David Read:
When you look back at… Let me table that for now. I know Christopher Judge fairly well, and he has commented on the fact that he really loves the opportunity to spend time with you and to get to go to fights that were… I think HBO was putting them on, if I’m not …

Michael Greenburg:
My brother, yeah.

David Read:
… mistaken. Those are memories that he really treasures, and he really looks at the time on SG-1 as a real Shangri-La where everyone did great work but also remained human beings. Because a lot of times you can lose that in this business really easily. Tell me about Christopher Judge.

Michael Greenburg:
Great guy. We shared sports together. We were athletes. He was a lot better than I was.
Bigger, stronger, probably faster. We both came from an athletic background, and I spent the early part of my career in sports, and then I backed into it the last 10 years, actually. We had that commonality, and then my brother, Ross, was President of HBO and also Executive Producer of all the fights. So, we would get these ringside, backstage passes and I’d take Chris to all the big, huge fights. Pacquiao, Mayweather, all those big iconic fights my brother would put on and do. And we were able to be ringside for that, so it was great.

David Read:
Would you sometimes have to pinch yourself? It’s like, “Look at where we are. Look at what we get to do.”

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah.

David Read:
You know, “This is… I’m blessed.”

Michael Greenburg:
I talk to my brother every day, and his career was just… A lot of people think mine’s great, which it is, and having done such iconic shows, fortunately, luckily, or however it panned out. But my brother equally, my brother is, like I said, he’s in two Hall of Fames. He’s in the Boxing Hall of Fame and the Television Broadcast Hall of Fame because he’s an innovator. He’s not only an innovator, but he’s a great storyteller, maybe one of the best sports storytellers. He’s won 57 Emmy Awards in documentary, and he’s the guy that got me back involved in sports television. He’s the guy who called me and said, “I need someone like you on the set to do these shows, Quest for the Stanley Cup, Road to the Winter Classic, Wired, NHL Revealed” for the NHL. And we ended up doing probably 100 shows… for NHL original programming. And it was all sort of his baby. Because he created 24/7, the whole behind-the-scenes storytelling technique, with athletes telling their own stories through film. We weren’t, they weren’t choreographed, they weren’t orchestrated, they weren’t written. It’s all interviews or capturing moments in their time behind the scenes and during the games and on the bench or in the locker rooms. And it’s been a real fortunate career, because you were able to tell stories, scripted and also non-scripted, and it’s all about telling a good story. So, hopefully, we’ve done that.

David Read:
There is a fever to sports fandom that is very similar to pop culture fandom. One wears jerseys and the other cosplays, but the energy is the same. The endearing attraction to the material, I think that there, especially with pop culture, it’s always about the hero’s journey in so many cases because of what is the story that’s being told. And Stargate is exemplified about the hero. He starts off in one place, he goes through this thing and transforms himself and a society, and then he comes back a changed person. I mean, it’s very much that arc. And there is similarly an excellence to the pursuit of attaining something greater than you currently are on the field or on a court. And I think that with those characteristics in mind, I think that that’s something that draws all of us together. Rob Cooper said it to me, he’s like, “We are drawn to competence.” And I think when you see people who are pushing themselves to try to be the next best version of themselves, either in a scripted story or out on the field, I think that there’s something very magnetic about that because we are drawn to that as people. We want to see ourselves be like that. And as storytellers, you get the opportunity to share insights behind the lines of what people were feeling and thinking. And in those moments of historic sports television and live entertainment. And there’s something to be said there that I think really feeds the human spirit. I’m gonna have to go to work the next day, but I had that experience of seeing that guy on that field do that thing. I know he’s been working that long to try and get that done. Maybe I can do that in myself with this thing that I’m trying to do over here. I think we can capture it and use those things in our daily lives. And I think it all improves the … Dave, it’s going on way too long. The pursuit of excellence in ourselves as well as what it is that you’re documenting.

Michael Greenburg:
I agree. I think that shows like Drive to Survive on the F1 gives you an inside look at these drivers so they’re not just a helmet in this …

David Read:
That’s right.

Michael Greenburg:
… car going 200 miles an hour, but yet there’s a person there. And if you don’t know who the person is or care about the person, you can be a fan of him winning a race, but what if you really know the guy and have been through a little journey with him and you know his story. It just makes it that much more impactful and way better. And I think that’s what my brother saw in that genre of 24/7, which is behind-the-scenes storytelling. It may have gone back to my brother’s early years with ABC Sports and the whole genesis of up close and personal with Howard Cosell. How he used to get behind the scenes with Muhammad Ali and people like that. ‘Cause I agree with you. If you care about the athlete, in a story sense, in character sense, you’re gonna cheer for him more and care more when he wins, or care more when he loses.

David Read:
And that’s why I love these conversations… is because there’s a reason that we love this.
These things were made by people. Let’s find out a little bit more about them.
Because they have stories that are worth telling too.

Michael Greenburg:
Story is everything. And that’s what I’ve always believed, my brother’s always believed in. And it’s gotta be worth telling.

David Read:
What stories from SG-1 did you enjoy the most? Is there one or two that stand out?

Michael Greenburg:
There’s like 250-something.

David Read:
I know! So, no pressure, Mike.

Michael Greenburg:
You probably know more about them than I do. I do remember some that I liked, aside from the ones that I helped write.

David Read:
Of course.

Michael Greenburg:
“Crystal Skull” I thought was pretty cool. And that actually Michael Shanks gave me some research book about the crystal skull and said, “This should be a Stargate episode.” And I read it, and he was right. And boy was he right, because Steven Spielberg two years later did an Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull. Now what…

David Read:
Exactly right. And your episode was better.

Michael Greenburg:
And whether he saw our show or not, I don’t know. But it was a great… So, that was a great concept. I’m not taking credit for it. Michael had the idea, and he gave me the book that had it all in there, the whole myth and legend about looking into a crystal skull and seeing UFOs. That’s a real thing as far as …

David Read:
The concept.

Michael Greenburg:
… the Mayan crystal skulls. That stood out. “Upgrades” written by David Rich. I think that was a cool story where you put these arm pieces on and you would be upgraded to this superhero thing, which was way before Marvel movies. I thought that was very cool. Gosh, I don’t know. We’d have to do a whole other episode–

David Read:
Let’s table that then. Because I would love to have you back in the future to talk about something more specific. And I know I asked a lot out of you front-loading a lot of this stuff early on. So, let’s do that. I want to finish talking about mentors and the people who made us who we are. And I do… You sent me a beautiful list just casually, and I want to go through some of it to give these people their due. Do you have any — before we do that — do you have any memories of just being wowed by Rick during the production of SG-1? “Man, this guy is the right guy for this. I’m just so glad to have this man in my life, and to be around this guy who doesn’t take himself seriously at all.” You could give him a compliment, and he’s like, “Ah. I’m just doing me!” Because that’s who he is.

Michael Greenburg:
The biggest compliment I ever heard, and it really rang true, was one year in Las Vegas at that big television convention. A television executive stood up there in front of 1,000 people, and it was a question and answer. And the question was, “What does it take to get a television series on and successful?” And the executive, who had no ties to us at all, simply said, “Get Richard Dean Anderson.” That was his answer at one of those huge television conventions in Las Vegas. The question was asked, “What’s it take to make a television show, get it on the air, and then have it be successful?” And his answer was, “Get Richard Dean Anderson.” So, that’s the biggest credit you could possibly give him. He’s, he was bigger than life. He brought those characters, and he did it in a personal way that the audience could relate to. Anyone in the audience, whether you’re rich or poor, have a 13-inch television set or a 60-inch television set, he was a definite tune-in character. And that’s why the shows were iconic, MacGyver and Stargate. It’s a credit really to him, because he’s the face of the franchises. And he delivered it in a way that was personal, personable, and creative, unique at times, but always special. I got to see it every day, and it was a joy to watch and be part of. Every day was special with him. Every day was special. He just delivered. He delivered in ways that you didn’t see on the page.

David Read:
And that’s what it is. There is something… I’ve been trying to peg him for years, as you might imagine, and one day I hope to be able to ask him this question: “What is it that’s running around inside your head?” Where… And I’m sure he wouldn’t be able to. having him try to define it I think would be interesting. Someone asked me once, “What do you think is going on in Jack’s head?” And I said, “I have no idea. But whatever it is, I do suspect it’s animated.” It has to be. It’s too insane. God, it’s funny. And I don’t know where he reaches to find some of these things that just come out. And I’ll ask one writer after another will come on, and I’ve said, “Did you write this?” And they’re like, “No. That was Rick.” It just is.

Michael Greenburg:
He’s really good. He’s creative. Instinctive and unique. And original. He’s an original.

David Read:
I’m looking at your list of mentors that you sent me. I want to wrap up with this. There are a number of people that you shared with me who have guided you to become the person that you are, and who you credit to the work that you’ve been privileged to do. Can you tell me about some of them and the impact that they’ve had on you?

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah. Starting with after the ski circuit was over and I came back to Hollywood, I worked for Lila Garrett, one of the pioneer female directors in television. And she saw potential in me that I’m not even sure I saw, but she saw it. And we did this pilot together called “Getting There” that she wrote. John Astin directed it. And she got me into the Director’s Guild during that show as an AD. She championed me from the beginning and gave me the confidence that I could actually make a living in Hollywood. And then after Lila, it would be Don Ohlmeyer, who I had known briefly before, because my brother and I used to do some golf tournament daily work through high school. But Don, I met, and he gave me my first producing break on The Golden Moment. And then George England and Paul Newman. Then I went to Warner Bros. and worked with George England, who was best known for directing The Ugly American with Marlon Brando, and he was Marlon Brando’s best friend, so I got to meet Marlon and spend some time with Marlon. I’m trying not to name drop, but I’ve been fortunate it’s been in my path, and these– And then Paul Newman, and working with Paul in developing scripts for him through George England. What it takes to make a good script great, or even a bad script great, or any script great, is what it takes to develop characters and arcs and stories in screenplay form to be shot is a whole unique thing in its own right. And I learned a lot from George England, as far as the screenwriting process. And I produced for him. I had line-produced and produced the TV movies, and we did the first IMAX scripted film together, the first one ever, called My Strange Uncle. We did it. It was all documentaries before 1980, and we did the first scripted IMAX film. And it was a short, it was only 30 minutes long, but we did it for Caesars World. And so, I got, at an early time in my career, I got to work with the IMAX camera, and its 15-perf horizontal frames of film.

David Read:
Is it as loud as they say that it is?

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah. It was like a lawn mower. Even blimped. It was like a lawn mower. And we had this guy from IMAX with us on location in New Zealand, ’cause there was only four cameras. And there was always four things filmed. Three documentaries, and then there was our story film. And one camera. And if it broke down, which it did, we’d have to shut down for hours while they put out this sheet on a driveway, and the technician would take the camera apart and put it back together so we can keep filming. So, that’s… You learn early technical stuff like that. And so, George was a big part of my production life. And Bruce Paltrow, who I mentioned earlier. Bruce Paltrow was a mentor right out of college, and I don’t know if I told you the three pieces advice he gave me, but he said, “Here’s three pieces of advice for Hollywood. One, take the money. Two, take the money. Three, take the money.” I’ve tried to be true to Bruce’s advice, and “Bruce, I’ve taken the money.” And yeah, so he was a big mentor. To a certain degree, Henry Winkler and Steve Downing and John Rich were mentors, because they helped me be able to… Because of their demand for excellence and quality, they helped me develop my instincts to constantly raise the qualitative bar daily. I have a saying that, “Make today better than yesterday” in production. And that’s what I try to do every day. And so, I’m always pushing the bar up. And I’ve talked about my brother. My younger brother is a mentor as well, because of his ability to tell stories in the world of sports, and with athletes. And some of the greatest stories are sports stories. And he’s still telling them to this day. He just got a Netflix green light on 99ers. He did a documentary that won an Emmy called Dare to Dream about the 1999 women’s soccer team, and they’re doing that as a movie. So, he’s always been inspirational, and we worked really closely for 10 years with the NHL, telling the stories of the NHL. So, yeah, a lot of help along the way, a lot of mentorship along the way.

David Read:
No one goes it alone.

Michael Greenburg:
No. No. No.

David Read:
We have to remember the people who helped get us where we are. And I really appreciate you sharing each of them. That means a lot to have that as a part of this story. Do you think… I always say, “Never say never,” is always one of mine. Do you think that you and Rick are done producing? Or do you think that there may be one day something like, “You know what? Let’s spend a few weeks on this. Let’s go out again.”

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah. I have a writing partner that I’ve been writing with for the last 10 years, Gerard de Marigny, a very prolific best-selling novelist on Amazon. He wrote all the Cris de Niro novels. We’ve got a handful of projects. We even wrote a new Stargate series spinoff that’s at Amazon, and I don’t…

David Read:
I didn’t know this.

Michael Greenburg:
No one does.

David Read:
I do now.

Michael Greenburg:
Who knows if it’ll ever happen? Who knows if anyone will ever open it up and read it? But it’s written. It’s pretty cool. I think it’s really cool. So, you never know. Gerard and I are always writing. We never stop writing. We’ve got quite a few projects going. The gears are always turning. We’re always writing. And there’s always a chance.

David Read:
I’m sorry, Michael. I’m gonna have to back up for a minute. Was Jack in this?

Michael Greenburg:
Was he? Will he be?

David Read:
No, no, no. What you created that you pitched to Amazon, was Jack a part of that story?

Michael Greenburg:
You mean, is he? It hasn’t been made. It hasn’t been [inaudible].

David Read:
I understand. But what it was that you pitched, was Jack in it?

Michael Greenburg:
Yeah, he’s in there. He’s in there.

David Read:
Absolutely. At this point, it could go either way with it. Sooner or later, Amazon will choose to do something. I always hold out hope that it’s going to be something from the old guard. But I understand if they wanted to go in a new direction. But just that nugget that you guys pitched something, that’s really cool.

Michael Greenburg:
It’s sittin’ there, so… And I think it’s very special. It’s unique. It’s a very cool concept. So, we’ll see. We’ll see. And I think–

David Read:
How long ago was that that you submitted?

Michael Greenburg:
It’s been a while. It’s been months. But we haven’t heard anything. But yeah, it’s there. Amazon just bought MGM, as you know. And so, there’s this whole whatever it takes to gear up. But as you know, Stargate is… as it is with the 250-plus episodes, it’s generating so much income now, and they’re not spending anything. So, they’d have to have the desire to make another iconic series and reap the benefits from that. So, that’s a big decision for them.

David Read:
Whether you are riding into town on a horse-drawn carriage or on a early industrial, motorized carriage or flying over a planet in the Starship Enterprise or coming through on a Stargate. There are stories to be told. And I don’t think we’re done with Stargate. I think it’s just a matter of when, and when they decide to move forward with it. And I’m glad that you submitted that story, or that you submitted an idea to them because I know how much love that you have for this, not just the IP, but for the fandom. The reason that you guys did a 200th episode and did it as off-the-wall as y’all did was because you recognized that you wouldn’t have been there without this ground swell of people who rose up underneath you to embrace the show. And to have filmmakers who really appreciate the fans that way and to come on 25, 30 years after, to share some time with one of them and ostensibly then many of them, to have a conversation about the work that was done, I am so thankful for. And I really appreciate you taking so much time to be with us today.

Michael Greenburg:
You’ll always be part of it.

David Read:
I appreciate that. And you guys made something special and something that, in many respects, is more relevant in modern times than it was even then. There is something evergreen about this show and so much of great storytelling that it continues to resonate into the future. Much of it may be a product of its time, but there’s always something that can be discovered by new fans and rediscovered by old ones. So, Michael, thank you so much.

Michael Greenburg:
Thank you, David. You’re the best.

David Read:
That was Michael Greenburg, Writer, Director, Executive Producer. This was a treat. I am so fortunate to be able to sit here and receive these stories decades after the fact, where people are still willing to share their memories of a production that so many of us hold in our hearts as such special entertainment. The work that they did was magic. And I think that’s why it continues to hold up, why so many people continue to discover it, and why it still holds so much meaning. It meant the world to me that Michael was willing to come on and share his story with us here. I do not go it alone, as I think we mentioned on this show. There’s so much that goes into production just in getting these stories out. And I must thank my production team for helping to make this possible week in and week out. Antony Rawling, Kevin Weaver, Sommer Roy, Brice Ors, they make the show work. My moderators, Antony, Jeremy, Kevin, Lockwatcher, Marsha, Raj, and Jakub, Frederick Marcoux over at ConceptsWeb who keeps DialtheGate.com up and running, and my Wormhole X-Tremists partners in crime, Nicole Rodriguez-Galdo and Yvonne Cahill, Yvie, we’re continuing to do our Stargate rewatches over there. All those links are in the description below. It meant the world to me that Mike was able to do this episode, and I’m so privileged to now add it to our collection of stories. And if we’re lucky, maybe we’ll have him back. I can still hope that we’ll get Rick one of these days, and who knows what the future will bring? My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in, and I will see you on the other side.