One of our favorites is here. Actor Dion Johnstone, known for his numerous roles in SG-1 (Nelson/Novar, Chaka, Na’onak, Tyler, Wodan and Warrick), sits down to Dial the Gate to talk about his latest adventure and take a look back.

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
I’ve been doing this show for almost six years now, and I’m still getting to folks that I’ve wanted to have forever, and when I get them on, my little 2D animated self on the inside is just doing backflips. Welcome to Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I have a really special actor on today who is one of probably my big five in the Stargate canon in terms of performers whose roles have really meant something to me. I’ve been privileged to have a couple of them on the show so far, but only really a couple, and today I get to add another one to that list. Dion Johnstone is a cornucopia of Stargate characters. He started off as No’var in “Rules of Engagement,” and then we saw him as Na’onak in “Jolinar’s Memories” before the reveal of Peter Williams. We also had him as one of the Stragoth aliens, the shellfish aliens, these guys, in– It actually might help if I pull up the episodes and have a look at them here. That was– What was that episode? Everyone’s like, “David, it’s such and such.” It’s like, “I know, but I can’t think of it right now.” “Foothold.” And then we saw him as Shaka, when the walls fell. No, not a Star Trek: Next Generation reference. This is Chaka the Unas in what started off as a one-off that was a nod to a very special Lou Gossett Jr./Dennis Quaid film, and then returned in Season Five and then later in Season Seven as a different actor. He also played Tyler, Lieutenant Tyler or Yayaya Yahehe in “The Fifth Man,” and Wodan in “Metamorphosis,” and Warrick in “Forsaken.” But we’re only gonna focus on a few of those in this episode because I was determined to get him back for more. So, there was no way that I was going to do this performer, this person justice by spending six and a half minutes on each of these things so that we could really speak to the role that he is consumed with now. And it was very important for me to cover that, because he is one of the bigger members of the Stargate family. So, I wanna bring Dion in and spend some time with him and bring you into that as well to share that time because his roles have meant a lot to me, particularly one. And we got to really delve into Eric, his character on Sweet Magnolias as well, and you may actually have another fan out there for a show. Let me add that to the list. Let’s bring in Dion Johnstone. Dion Johnstone, you are so known in this property. Usually when I bring people in, I’m like, “This is so-and-so. They did this,” and then we move on. And man, it is not possible with you. I have been so looking forward to having you on since I started this iteration of the project. I cannot tell you. It is a thrill to have you on Dial the Gate, sir. I really appreciate you being here.

Dion Johnstone:
Thank you. It’s a pleasure and an honor both to be here as well. Thanks for having me.

David Read:
What’s going on with you these days? What are you currently working on? What’s keeping you busy?

Dion Johnstone:
I’m currently on a show called Sweet Magnolias, which is produced by Netflix, and we wrapped our fifth season at the beginning of the fall. So, that’s now going through its editing post-production process. So, I get called in every now and then to do some ADR work and get a little snapshot of where we are. We’ve had an announced date for when it will arrive on Netflix, which is June 11th. So, that’s really exciting. And I’m in the hiatus period where I’m basically focusing on family, continuing to strengthen my craft, just restoring a little bit of the balance between work life and home life, and just enjoying life, really.

David Read:
Good deal, man. I’m curious. I’ve not seen this series. So, can you give us an overview of the show and where Eric Whitley fits into this?

Dion Johnstone:
Yeah. In a nutshell, it’s about three female friends in a Southern Carolina town called Serenity who join together to initially create a spa for the community. And that eventually evolves into creating a foundation and finding out ways that they can better serve the community of Serenity and also be a stand for each other in their lives and their loves and their families. So, they are at the head, the three Magnolias, but it’s a very strong show about community. And the town of Serenity is a very strong character in the show as well. You meet the community and all of the people that live within and how they all contribute to their world and lives. So, the character I play is Eric Whitley, and when you first meet him, he’s a pastry chef working at Sullivan’s Restaurant. And he quickly graduates into becoming a sous-chef on the show. And he’s a man of mystery. He’s got a lot of secrets in his past that sort of unveil and unfold over the seasons. But what you learn about him is he is a person who holds a lot of grief within him because of past trauma that’s happened in his life. And he is at a place of emerging out of that grief, learning how to deal with it, but also move on in life, learning how to love again. And so, you watch him as he falls in love with one of the main characters, one of the Magnolias, Helen Decatur, and you see that relationship blossom between the two of them. But you also watch him learn that he has something to offer the community, both in mentorship, but also in the establishing of legacies. One of the big things that’s on his mind is, “What am I here to do? How am I meant to contribute to this world?” And so, that’s a big thing for him. And you watch him discover that and explore that and see how that unfolds over the seasons.

David Read:
Is this a show that has an ending, or is this one that could be really perpetual if done right for a while?

Dion Johnstone:
Yeah. I mean, I believe there are maybe 13 books in the original series that this show is based on. So, there’s quite an evolution as to where the characters can go. It’s very much an open-ended series. I feel at this point we’re still at the start of it, you know? I mean, we know who these characters are. Some major transitional things have happened, but I feel the ground is now fertile for it to really take off.

David Read:
Well, dude. What a coup to have grabbed something that you can really sink your teeth into in a day where you can’t count on anything anymore. So, that’s awesome, man. Good for you.

Dion Johnstone:
Thank you. And it’s wonderful–

David Read:
And how many seasons are available on Netflix now?

Dion Johnstone:
Say that again?

David Read:
I apologize. How many seasons are available on Netflix now?

Dion Johnstone:
There are four seasons that are currently available, and a fifth season will launch on June 11th.

David Read:
OK. And it’s wonderful to what? What’d you say?

Dion Johnstone:
It’s just wonderful not only to be a part of a show that’s being recognized and celebrated, but to be playing a part that’s inspiring and challenging, really allows me to access and use all aspects of my craft. And that’s not always a guarantee. You can land on a great show and not have a lot to do, or land on a show and not really evolve as a character. But every season, the challenges that have been put forward to me as an actor have been just monumental. So, I feel very grateful to have this opportunity.

David Read:
That’s great, man. There’s a fourth Stargate series that is now in development, and we are moving straight ahead towards it, and when did you first hear that it was coming back? Or did you hear through me?

Dion Johnstone:
No. I heard word, and it was sort of corroborated by you, that Amazon Prime, I believe, is optioning it.

David Read:
Prime Video.

Dion Johnstone:
From what I understand, it’s a soft reboot. So, it’s keeping a lot of the lore that’s already been established and sort of picking up, I guess, maybe in a future timeline. I don’t quite know where or if anyone’s gonna be able–

David Read:
Our now. We’re primarily filming in London, but it’s one of those where it’s like I wanted to reach out to everyone from the show that I really loved and get them back into the fore again, because if there’s any chance to have your involvement in it, I would love to see you in it, truthfully.

Dion Johnstone:
Oh, man. Absolutely. I do wanna be a part of it.

David Read:
Martin Gero is one who knows what he’s doing, and I’m really excited with what he’s going to develop with this thing. So, we’re gonna have to see. I wanna take you back really to the beginnings of your career, because so much of who you are got started on this show. Tell me about your time on Stargate, ’cause you went through a whole series there for a little while, and how that all came to pass. Let’s start off with a bird’s-eye view of your recollection of your time on the series.

Dion Johnstone:
An amazing period of life for me. Foundational in terms of the start of my career in film and television. My understanding of what the industry is, what it requires of you to show up and do the work. I think part of how I was recognized by the show was through the work that I was doing on stage. And I was doing a production of Hamlet with Michael Shanks at the time. And he was playing Hamlet and I was playing Horatio. And so, it was great. I played opposite him, and he’s a wonderful actor, and he was a brilliant Hamlet. And producers from the show obviously came to see him in it and saw my work. And very shortly after that, I started to get auditions for Stargate. And it was a matter of finding the right fit of the role, what was the right way to bring me into the show. And that eventually happened with “Rules of Engagement.” And that was really exciting because it was an episode, basically from my recollection, about young Goa’uld recruits being trained on another planet, but taking the roles of Stargate teams and Goa’uld, and battling against each other, and sort of building them up to this ultimate battle. So, it was sort of a youth-oriented show in their world view. And I met one of my closest friends on that show, Aaron Craven, who eventually got the part that I went out for, who was the leader of this team of the Stargate outfit. And I was his second-in-command. And I remember, we worked so hard on that and were so focused on the craft and so focused on the details of every scene, and trying to make all the lines make sense, and to really try to find the center of what the story was. And there was a moment where I remember production looked at us and said, “You know what?” We had one final scene to shoot, and something in the text wasn’t quite working or lining up. And we had gone in our trailer, and we were working on it, and we came up with an idea and brought it out. And I remember our director stepping back and saying, “You know, just put the cameras on them and let them do their thing.” And they just let us run with what our idea was, and that ended up making the final cut. So, it was very empowering at that time. And I remember also being invited to set, because they knew I had never been in front of a camera before. And there’s a period of time of translating what you do on stage to what you do on screen. So, they invited me to come to the episode that was shooting prior to ours, and said, “Yeah, you know, the set is your home. Go wherever you want, talk to whoever you want. The only thing that we ask is when the cameras are rolling, that you don’t get in the eyeline of any of the actors who are performing, because any slight shift in movement will affect their performance. So, don’t do that. But other than that, the world is your oyster.” And funny enough, they were shooting an episode that had one of the Unas in it, which I eventually later went on to play. And it just blew my mind, ’cause here I am on stage, you create the entire environment through the language and through your body and through the words, and through your gestures. Here on set, everything was there. They had created this medieval village with a forest, you know? You could walk through this forest line into the village, into the cobblestones, into the chickens running around, trees, mist, everything, and it was all there. So, you didn’t have to work so hard with the words to make it tell the story. I started to realize, well, it’s more about your behavior and just being in the moments, ’cause the world is provided for you. So, that was an exciting realization to see what would be available in this world. I felt very much under the wing of production. That first episode led to an invite to do another episode that was directed by Peter DeLuise. And he was directing an episode where Peter Williams, who played Apophis, his character had died. And, in fact, we saw his death scene in our episode, sort of, that played in the sky for us. So, that was a canon event. But they were gonna resurrect his character, so he was on another planet in a hidden form. And Peter was unavailable to shoot that episode up until the point when his revelation was coming. So, I was invited to play his character because it was masked, and I was like, “This is great.” I love mask work, and it’s an opportunity to get more screen time and to develop a different character. And in a weird way, sort of the two of us would be combining to create this one character, until the point of the revelation when you realized it’s Apophis. So, that was great. It was another opportunity to be in front of the cameras, to learn how everything works. Peter DeLuise was always very challenging in terms of what he would ask for in terms of behavior and movement, and how can you make him different, and how can you find his walk, and how can you find his attitude? How can you do all of that? ‘Cause we can’t see beyond the mask, so it’s how you physicalize, how you embody it that’s gonna tell that story. So, it needs to be distinct and specific. So, that was a great challenge. And then that led to “The First Ones.” Maybe not directly to “The First Ones,” but eventually through Peter.

David Read:
I want to get to Chaka in a minute here, ’cause Chaka’s one of my boys. I don’t wanna skip over the shellfish creatures in …

Dion Johnstone:
Yes. I think that was–

David Read:
… in “Foothold” that– They’re called the Stragoth in extended canon, but these things were wild, man.

Dion Johnstone:
That’s neat. I think that was sort of an opening of a realm of opportunities that started to happen in Stargate, where it became apparent that, “Wow, this guy can act. But we can’t necessarily bring the character that he played back from “Rules of Engagement,” ’cause that’s a storyline that we don’t know if that’s coming back. But we can use you as an actor, because we have a whole plethora of alien characters in these sort of latex suits.” And that provides a lot of challenges for actors, ’cause some people really feel super hot and suffocating in it, and it’s hard to act in. But, “You have this ability, masked, to bring a character to life. So, if you’re open to it, we’d love to pitch this to you.” And I was like, “Man, I’d love that.” So, “Foothold” came, and I met another fellow local Vancouver actor, Alex Zahara, his name is, doing that because we were sort of both the two– He was sort of the head alien, and I was sort of the second-in-command alien, from what I remember. So, we got to know each other, and had a very easy rapport, and it was fun working out what little details in these huge prop suits could we do to indicate something different than just being human. And yeah, what I vaguely remember about that, I mean, that was so much about also heat management. We would sit there in between takes in front of these massive fans just blowing cool air on us but just having a lot of fun.

David Read:
I want to bring up Alex Zahara, because there’s, especially with Chaka, there’s a lot connected there. My understanding, correct me if I’m wrong, is Mike Greenburg had a lot to do with you guys being folded into this production again and again. Finding people who are consistent and reliable when you put them under heavy prosthetics or when you put them in suits, you– In a production like this that is so tight on time and budget, you have to get things precise. And when you find some guys who are willing, not only willing, but eager, to go through that process, and learn, and help create, and craft, you hang onto ’em.

Dion Johnstone:
And it was very much that. And that’s what I mean by the feeling of, I was taken under their wing. I remember Peter saying, “You lose a little bit in the sense that your face doesn’t get to be seen.” But that’s not necessarily all cases. But you gain in the sense that you get to develop in character work, in the ability to truly create different characters. And you get all this screen time as well. So, it’s really an opportunity, artistically, to grow, and to learn, and to develop in this craft. And that’s what it was for me. I learned so much through playing those roles and got to go to so many different places. And it helped release me in my craft in ways that I wasn’t necessarily ready or able to do if it was just me. There’s something about when you’re in a mask, and when you’re in a full body costume, those limitations actually give you something to lean into, so you can let go into that. And it frees up your imagination to just start creating from that place. Found that massively with Chaka. Found that with Wodan in an episode called “Metamorphosis,” which was wild. The physical constraints of being in this torturous body, and even prosthetic arms and hands and everything. But what it did to my voice, what it did to my emotions in terms of his backstory, and physically what I was able to find, in terms of movement, was astounding. I wouldn’t have been able to do that normally at that time. But that also opens you up to when you’re playing roles, even though if I’m a realistic character myself, I might not go to that extent, but I can have that internal vibration in me. I can have all of those images existing within me as well, too, even though my exterior may be quite normal, you know, or might be quite masked.

David Read:
You have to find the humanity in the performance. You’re not always afforded the opportunity of finding it in this part, but it is here.

Dion Johnstone:
Yes.

David Read:
It does exist. And your hope is that you find a way to connect it to the audience, ’cause you’re– You have to trust that your other performers and the people who are recording you, and the people who have hired you know what they’re doing. It’s not like it’s about you, but you don’t wanna– You’re here; you don’t wanna be left out of that process. Chaka is one– He’s in top five of characters for me. He always has been. This boy, and he is a boy, is participating in a ritual that his tribe has done for thousands of years. And Daniel gets caught in the net. Tell me, does this role mean as much to you as it does to me as an audience member being sucked into it? And tell me about who this boy was when you first saw him on the page.

Dion Johnstone:
This role was brought to me by Peter DeLuise with great love and great care. And he really wanted me to do my research on it, to look at the Maasai African tribes, and the whole idea of doing a walkabout. He wanted me to watch the film Enemy Mine, to look at an alien culture encountering a human culture, and the humanity that could be found between. To look at parables, Daniel and the tiger, or Androcles and the Lion, rather, pulling the thorn out of the lion’s claw. And also developing my own spiritual connection with whoever Chaka’s god is, and how do I speak? How do I communicate? How do I reach out to my God, and to make that very visceral. And so, those were the challenges that he set out for me in taking it on as I read it. And then as we started doing the costume test, that was amazing, because they’d already developed the caves. It was already built, the set. But they allowed me, in costume, and I would bring my video camera, to go and explore how he might move, explore what a day in the life might be. So, I went in for my wardrobe fitting, and then someone from wardrobe accompanied me with my Hi8 cam at the time. And I just spent about an hour, an hour and a half on my own in the sort of unlit set, walking around and doing a day in the life. So, that–

David Read:
You got to find him in his space …

Dion Johnstone:
In his space, on my own.

David Read:
… because his adventure is not in his space. His adventure is out of his space.

Dion Johnstone:
It’s out in the world. And then on my own, outside, taking all of that knowledge that I was embedding within myself, I had actor friends of mine who I would go out into the woods. I lived in Kitsilano Beach in Vancouver, so it’s a very beautiful woodsy area by the water as well. And I would go and practice walking like him and hunting like him, and have people record me. And then I’d watch everything and try to align it and try to find his physicality and try to find his breath. And it took a little bit when we started filming. One of the big issues that I think we found was just wearing the lenses was very, very harsh on the eyes. So, at times it made it so unbearable that it was hard to focus. So, we realized, OK, let’s, if it’s a wide shot, we’ll take the lenses out ’cause you don’t see them. And as we move in for close to close-up medium and close-up, then we’ll pop them in. So, that just sort of gives my eyes time to heal. And so, that really helped. We worked a lot on the physicality. One of the big, big things that Peter wanted to solve is he felt that previously with the older Unas, the suits were so restrictive that there was no rotational movement, and so it still felt like a man in a rubber suit. And he’s like, “I wanna break that somehow.” So, I mean, it was built in such a way that, yes, the arms were latex, and the legs, but my torso was free. And so, a lot of rotational movements to really show, wow, this is a fully rotating, moving being, was big. So, the layers of that started to come. I think there was one scene where Chaka’s meditating. I’d been working on what might that meditation be like, what might be calling up to God. And that was a scene where, in my reactions, I remember snorting, and the snorting created a little puff inside of the mask. It was like an air pocket that puffed out. And they were like, “That’s great. Keep that.” And I started working with that, and that was a wonderful moment where it was like, OK, he’s starting to– I’m starting to figure out how to animate even the mask, even though it’s glued to me. But I’m fusing with it, and I’m learning his expression and how to show his emotion and thought within it. And then I think it really just, boom, hit a center line in the scene where we’re in the caves, and we’re by a fireplace, Daniel and Chaka. And Chaka throws a cooked, cooled symbiote. Tosses it, “You gotta eat.” And Daniel’s like, “Uh, I don’t wanna eat that.” And he tosses it back, and it turns into a game, a back-and-forth game. He’s going, “We’re playing toss a symbiote.” But then–

David Read:
Throw the symbiote head.

Dion Johnstone:
Throw the symbiote. And then Danny pulls out a meal replacement bar and says, “Well, how about this?” And having the scene where-

David Read:
“Don’t say ka until you’ve tried it.”

Dion Johnstone:
Ka. “Don’t say ka ’til you’ve tried it,” exactly. And that was a great scene because Peter was like– We had the script, and we were adhering to the script, but he let us go off. He’s like, “I want you guys to improvise. Go with the flow.” And as I’ve already said, I had first worked with Michael on stage in Hamlet, so I knew him as an actor. And that was a moment where the two of us could come together with the chemistry that we already inherently had. And that was a beautiful moment where I felt, OK, boom, he’s on line. I know who– I can feel in my bones who Chaka is. And then everything after that became very, very easy, less of a struggle to figure out the language of, “Who is this guy?” It just sort of seemed to flow from then on.

David Read:
It’s amazing how much gets through in 42 minutes with this episode. Just that scene right now, “Toss the symbiote head.” He’s actually getting Chaka to laugh with him. I’m sure Daniel’s thinking to himself, “How long can we keep this up? He’s laughing but once he’s done, he’s gonna wanna eat me again.” ‘Cause he’s taking him back to get eaten. There is so much going on in this episode. And Todd Masters and his team at MastersFX, those guys are brilliant.

Dion Johnstone:
Phenomenal.

David Read:
What do you recall about creating that thing? How many days did you have to go into MastersFX for the molds and for all the tests to get that set up? Because you’re not just putting it on and standing still, you are performing a full range of movement in this thing.

Dion Johnstone:
There’s always, you go in to create the body mold, so the casting period where you just sit still and they pour this coagulate gel on you, and you sit there for a bit, and they put straws in your nose so that you can breathe. And you’re just patient for a long period of time until they get the mold. And once they have that mold of you, then they can build the character on top of it and then pour a latex version of that and then test it on you. So, that process itself, I can’t remember how many hours, certainly more than three, four, maybe five hours to actually set the mold and everything and do all of that. But what I remember most is the daily grind of getting into the costume and getting out of the costume and being in the costume. ‘Cause it was almost three hours of work just to get into it. So, I would come at the crack of dawn. I would be there for 4:00 AM call, sitting in the chair. I’d fall asleep through it. I’d have to keep tipping my head back. We’d get the headpiece on, and then it’s all gotta be sort of glued in. And then it’s a spray, spray makeup, essentially shaping it and blending the entire mask to your face. And that just takes a long time to get all of the details and all of the pieces, and everything put together. And so, I would be there about 4:00 AM to start and then call to set for blocking might be 7:00 AM. And then the day starts. I remember stuff like you couldn’t even go to the washroom by yourself ’cause you’ve got massive hands. So, it’s like you’ve gotta be walked to the washroom. Figuring out little ways, we created zippers and stuff.

David Read:
They had a hook for you guys at a certain point, but–

Dion Johnstone:
Exactly.

David Read:
“Let me keep my dignity, please, God.”

Dion Johnstone:
Well, you’re being walked everywhere. You’ve got people holding umbrellas over you. In between setups, I’d be in my trailer, which had to be an ice box and just cool air blowing in. Lunch was sipped through a straw ’cause we couldn’t get grease on the lips of where the latex was, or else it would be very difficult to reset it and everything like that. And then dealing with the eyes was the big thing, was just staying really relaxed with the scleral lenses. And we figured out how to sort of navigate it so that there wasn’t overuse of it, and so it’s definitely an endurance run. I really had to find that place within myself that was just a place of calm where I was like, “Yeah, I’m hot. Yeah, it’s restrictive, but I’m not panicking. I can stay relaxed. I can regulate my heat. I’ve got the cool air around me.” And it’s almost like a meditative place that you go to, where you’re not exerting your energy. You’re thinking about where you need to go, going over the notes, what have you had in your head, but you’re in a relaxed state until it’s time to go. And so, that, when we’re back, when the setup’s done, you’ve got the energy and the drive to just give it, you know.

David Read:
Had you ever done anything this complicated in terms of layers on top of you before?

Dion Johnstone:
No. Not prior, and I would say nothing since has been at the level that Chaka was. I would say many of the characters that I played in Stargate were similar, had similar requirements, but not the same story, emotional, screen time. “The First Ones” and “Beast of Burden” were both, “Beast of Burden” even almost more, because it was at a time of the summer that was extremely hot, I remember as well, too. And we were out in the fields and pulling, you know, logs and stuff like that. I remember it was very, very physical. So, was “First Ones,” but “First Ones” had more of a lyric movement, with points of action here and there. But “Beast of Burden” was very, very high intensity, and it was very hot when we were filming. At the time, the sun was very, very hot.

David Read:
Did you expect to get to do this character again? Did you have any idea?

Dion Johnstone:
No, not at the time. No, no. I didn’t know that this was– This was like a one-off. I was like, completion of the story. So, when it was coming back, it was like, “Wow, that’s, that’s amazing.” That was a complete surprise.

David Read:
You had achieved something with this role that was endearing and sincere and funny, like surprisingly funny at a lot of moments. I think that one of my favorite montages is at the beginning of “Beast of Burden,” and you can see that Daniel has gone back to the planet and put these cameras everywhere, and they’ve got these shots in of Chaka, you know, coming and picking up his goodie from Daniel, ’cause Daniel’s continued to keep in touch with him. And Chaka is just hamming it up for the cameras. This is one of my favorite moments. One of my favorite scenes in the entire franchise, ’cause it’s Unas-vision. It’s hilarious. You’re just, you’re just having fun, you know? And I don’t know if he, I couldn’t remember if there were other Unas over there, or he didn’t let anyone else know that there were candy bars, so it may have just been him. But it’s almost like Chaka knows what Daniel’s doing, and he’s saying, “Hey, how are you? Thanks for the grub. I’m not saying ka.” I love this role, man.

Dion Johnstone:
What was so great about “Beast of Burden” was the comfort that came from having established the character and knowing that everyone trusted what I was bringing to the character. I remember there was a scheduling conflict that occurred because I was working on stage at the time that they had initially wanted to film it, and my contract couldn’t be adjusted. So, they adjusted the filming schedule to allow me to complete my contract and then for us to go into filming. But what that meant was that Peter couldn’t direct the episode. So, I remember that was part of it, was, “I have to give up my baby.” But it’s in good hands. And there was a lot of confidence that was instilled in me in terms of, “We love what you’re doing, and trust what you’re doing. So, we want you to run with it.” And I think that, and then also working with Alex as well, too. ‘Cause we have a very easy connection as actors, so it was really easy to build and work together, and for him to dive in and go, “OK, this is what they’re gonna ask about. OK, so this is what I’m gonna bring in.” And so, there were lots of moments of heart, lots of moments of humor, lots of moments of pain, struggle, and this fiery spirit of, “Let’s take up the charge and let’s– This is about freedom.”

David Read:
I’m getting goosebumps thinking about this episode, and I cannot honestly decide. Probably “Beast of Burden” I do like more, because it evolves the character in such a way, because you’re taking a character who knows nothing but freedom and the sky and his God. And he’s thrown into complete subjugation. And you and I both know, they would’ve had to kill him. He was not gonna yield. It just wasn’t gonna work. And they wouldn’t have sent him back to his planet. They would’ve done an end with him had Daniel not come and gotten him. What was that arc like, expressing that through Chaka for this episode? And they didn’t throw you a bone, they threw you a steak in that one. That is a wild episode. You were the thrust of that story.

Dion Johnstone:
Obviously, there’s a lot to draw from in terms of history, and bottom line, we’re talking about slavery. And I loved having the opportunity to express that story through this world and through this character, to allow it to take it off of myself and basically put it into another world to be able to explore. It’s like mask work in a sense. There’s a freedom that it gives you because you can access that pain, but you can also slightly remove yourself from it as well, too. And make it something that’s greater in a sense, a little bit more universal for everyone to experience. I thought it was just a wonderful evolution of Chaka, and a wonderful evolution of the species, of seeing him take a stand for his people who don’t know what he’s known, and go, “I’m gonna spread this. I’m gonna be the light. I’m gonna be the fire that spreads this to everybody.” To step into that role, I mean, what a journey from his initial walkabout, which was about trying to survive and proving himself worthy enough to submit to the elder of the tribe, to becoming the leader of that tribe, to becoming the leader of a whole nation of his people.

David Read:
And to take nothing away from Patrick Curry, Patrick, I don’t know if you’ve seen the third one or not, but he does an excellent job. I adore him as an actor. He just wasn’t my Chaka. His choices are just going to be different than your choices. One of the advantages that he had when he was brought in for Season Seven–I believe there was a scheduling conflict was the core reason–was the advantage of he has now gone from his wild society into a more civilized one. And so, he has chosen to incorporate a certain amount of, a great deal of poise in his new society. He has chosen to take that on. So, that wasn’t so much about the difference in actors, but just the difference in setting. But still, I just, I actively, Dion, I felt you were so missed in that third one that it was, to this day, when I go– I’m not blowing smoke up your ass. I swear to God. Any time I put on the show, it’s all I can think about when I watch it. It’s like, I know it’s Patrick, I know it’s not Dion. He is doing an excellent job with the material and with everything in between, but in my core, this is not the same guy. And I guess I just wanted confirmation: Was it a scheduling conflict?

Dion Johnstone:
It was a scheduling– I can’t remember specifically what it was, but I think it was something along the lines of I was in another production that, at that time, there wasn’t negotiation room. So, I just couldn’t, I was unavailable and they needed to move forward with new episode. And so, I had to relinquish the part. I haven’t seen the episode. It’s been hard for me, funny enough. I’m so attached to him that it’s been hard for me to sort of let it be. But I can appreciate the– It’s an unenviable task to step into a role that someone else has created. Sometimes it can work to great effect because you may bring a new facet to the character that wasn’t there before. That can be like, “Wow, this completes the picture.” But you also run the risk of there are some imprints of the DNA of the other actor that made the character that the people will miss. So, it’s always a gamble and a difficult thing that sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t. Or it can work, but everyone will have their preference as well, too. So, I can appreciate that. And I wish, I so wish I could have completed the arc for Chaka ’cause I have great, great love for that character.

David Read:
I would love to have you back as we move closer to this next Stargate. I would love to have you back to discuss Tyler and Wodan and Warrick in a little bit greater detail. What I’d like to do is sit Stargate aside for my last few minutes with you. I’ve always been interested in this question when I bring folks on. You guys have such a body of work. What is a role that has most impacted you or has remained with you throughout your career? Perhaps one that you didn’t expect to, but that continues to sit with you or will come up in your mind every now and then? Is there a part that you’ve just never been able to let go or that is particularly special to you, either stage or on screen, that continues to resonate with you?

Dion Johnstone:
Yeah. In many ways, I would say I am in love right now with playing Eric Whitley. It is such a deep character in my psyche and what I’m learning through playing him. And there’s so much more to discover.

David Read:
You indicated trauma.

Dion Johnstone:
Yes.

David Read:
Can you explore that a little bit for us? Give us a, “Oh, I wanna go see the show.”

Dion Johnstone:
He is a former EMT who lived in Atlanta for a period of time. And was married, and his wife was expecting. And she had a situation where she all of a sudden had complications with the pregnancy, and he needed to get her to the hospital. And it was during rush hour, and he felt that he could get her there quicker than calling an ambulance and waiting for them to come because he’s an EMT. So, he took off with her, but they hit rush hour and they couldn’t get through. And she had internal bleeding. He had to pull over to the side of the road, call for an ambulance, and in the period of time that they had to wait, she not only lost the baby but she lost her life. So, he feels responsible for that choice and for losing everything. And that took him to a very, very, for a number of years, dark place in his life, where he shut himself off from the world. But he was raised partly in the South. Would visit his grandma in South Carolina when he was a kid. And she taught him how to cook. And it was through rediscovering her recipes and just doing a recipe a day, and going, “At least I know if I put this ingredient, this ingredient, and this ingredient, and I follow the recipe, it will make sense and it will turn out.” But that was sort of his way of climbing back out of the grief. And so, that led him to cooking. And he gave up his life as an EMT, left Atlanta, went into cooking, and has come to Serenity, and got a job as a pastry chef. So, you meet him, that’s where you meet him. He’s now established as a pastry chef, but he doesn’t go and he doesn’t– He’s very protective about his previous life and his world and that.

David Read:
It’s another man.

Dion Johnstone:
Yeah. But you see him still processing and still dealing with that grief. Still trying to find a way of, “I don’t wanna let go of that life that I had. I wanna honor that life and create space for it. But I’m challenging myself to believe that I’m worthy enough to love and be loved, and to still keep living. And if anything, that should be a testament to their lives.” And so, you see him growing through that and learning to love again and learning to live with his past as he embraces the present.

David Read:
Rather than keeping it behind a locked door.

Dion Johnstone:
Exactly. And it’s about a lot of locked doors that you see him learning how to open and what it takes to let the light in rather than keep it compartmentalized and shut up in order to protect himself and as he thinks, others. So, it’s a very, very deep, rich, rich role, and I think speaks to a lot of people who deal with trauma and grief and don’t know how to process it, don’t know how to communicate it, and don’t know how to move on.

David Read:
Can I ask you a question from the character’s perspective? Will this guy ever truly forgive himself?

Dion Johnstone:
I believe so. That’s a very interesting question. Will–

David Read:
Because as–

Dion Johnstone:
At this point? I think he’s learning to. He’s definitely in the process of learning that it’s OK, that it wasn’t– That there’s no fault in it. He made a choice. Certainly, his wife would forgive him. Certainly–

David Read:
What do her parents think?

Dion Johnstone:
We never meet his parents, so in my …

David Read:
Her parents?

Dion Johnstone:
… backstory– You don’t meet her parents. So, in my backstory, he never got the support from her parents and never felt that he had a right to reach out to her parents. He also never got the support from his own family. There’s a whole issue with his family and [inaudible]. So, he felt quite abandoned during that period of time. He lost his faith, faith in a belief in a God. But he’s still very spiritual. So, for him, he goes out into the woods, he goes out into nature, and it’s been through observing how there’s both a cruelty but a beauty in nature. And nature lets things die, only for it to be restored again. And that meditation, that’s, he talks about it as my church. “I go hiking to mountain top and there have been many times when I’ve cried it out when I’ve needed to, and other times where I can just be in peace and just meditate and sit and admire the beauty of it.” But that speaks to me and that’s helped with just looking at how nature deals with the changes of the tides, of its seasons is helping him process and understand the changing tides of his, the seasons of his life, which allows space for renewal, and rebirth and regrowth.

David Read:
Grief is a journey, and for some people they can contextualize things fairly quickly, regardless of how awful a tragedy is, and for others not. And I can only imagine, considering who you are as an actor, and what I’ve seen you do, what you’ve done for people who have watched that show, I’m sure you’ve heard from folks who have seen that.

Dion Johnstone:
I had an EMT reach out to me, in my first season, actually. And we didn’t know yet the full backstory of Eric, but there were tremors that you could see, that a lot of audience members were like, “What is it with this guy?” He seems really nice. He seems really supportive, but something shady about him.

David Read:
Something happened.

Dion Johnstone:
People were picking up, but they didn’t quite understand. But I had an EMT reach out and go, “I get it. I see it. I see the signs.” You have to bottle up so much so that you can be present and unaffected by the trauma that you see, but it affects you. And if you can’t find a way to process that, it can lead to its own form of post-traumatic stress disorder. And this person’s like, “And I deal with that, and I can see that so clearly in your performance and I so appreciate you bringing light to that.” I was like, “Wow, wow, thank you.” It’s a privilege. It’s my hope that in some way, through this role, I am giving voice to those who have been through and are going through this experience, and at least offering– ‘Cause I feel what Eric offers is there’s– No matter how dark it is, and it’s very dark, it has been very dark for him, there’s always hope. There’s hope. And you see him through fragments, cling, grab, step by step. And he’s in a much lighter stage of life, it’s great, though, ugh, I don’t know if I can do too many more seasons that are that…

David Read:
Well, that’s the thing, what’s–

Dion Johnstone:
He still exists.

David Read:
What’s the name of the town again?

Dion Johnstone:
Serenity.

David Read:
Interesting.

Dion Johnstone:
A fictionalized town in South Carolina, Serenity.

David Read:
Sure, but there’s a reason that it’s named what it is. And I have a friend named Joy, and she embodies that, and I imagine for people who would live in a town named Serenity, a lot of those people would internalize that, and I’m sure a few ironically, but others would embody that as well. So, that’s quaint, appropriate naming. Dion, thank you.

Dion Johnstone:
My pleasure.

David Read:
Thank you for sharing in this role, treating, talking about him with care and with sensitivity and embodying that, this has been a real treat for me, sir.

Dion Johnstone:
For me as well. Thank you.

David Read:
My tremendous thanks to actor Dion Johnstone for participating in this wonderful hour. I’ve only had a couple of instances, Dan Payne, Alex Zahara, two of them, where I had to put multiple roles underneath their– ‘Cause I couldn’t pick one, and I could change it up as we go along, because no one has time for that. I wanted to spend it with him, and I am privileged to have had this hour with– You know what? All right, cards on the table, I don’t get butterflies with performers very easily. I’ll sit down with Amanda, I’ll sit down with Joe, I don’t care. And then I get someone on whose character– And it’s not like Carter and Daniel, who is my favorite characters in the canon, or Sheppard don’t mean something to me. But you have these guest-starring roles who come in and they just hit you. They hit you in ways that you don’t anticipate, which is a wonderful delight as a human being, to watch a performance either on stage or in person or on the television. And then, ’cause I’ve only spoken with Dion over the phone, I’ve never actually sat across from him, and it’s, keep it together, man, and don’t sound like an idiot who’s just heaping praise on this guy. Because you want to convey what you truly feel, and you’ve gotta be really careful, especially ’cause it’s another dude, don’t make them feel uncomfortable. And that was, bottom line, a really special time for me. My name is David Read, you’re watching The Stargate Oral History Project. If you enjoy Stargate and you wanna see more content like this on the channel, do me a favor and hit that Like button. It really does make a difference with the show and will continue to help us grow. And if you have Stargate friends out there, do me a favor and share this with them. And if you wanna get notified about future episodes, click Subscribe. If you click the Bell icon, it’ll notify you the moment a new video drops and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes. And clips from this episode will be released over the course of the next few weeks on both the Dial the Gate and the GateWorld.net YouTube channels. SG4 is in pre-production right now. We’re all excited about it. There are certain folks that I would love to have, really love to see in the new one. I have a number of episodes coming up in the popper that are in development right now. A lot of folks behind the scenes that I’m thrilled to have on. Folks like Kirk Douglas, no relation, and Ryan Purcell have been hugely helpful in that process behind the scenes lately. And we’ve got a few more, definitely before– We’ve got a few more liters in the tank, gallons in the tank before we’re done. I’m gonna go ahead and let you guys go here. But thank you so much for tuning in and enjoying this very special episode with me. Hopefully, we’ll have another one with him before the end of the year. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in. I’ll see you on the other side. Chaka.