The actor behind Chaka and Lt. Tyler is back to discuss his three latter roles in Seasons Five and Six of Stargate SG-1!

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Timecodes
0:00 – Opening Credits
0:29 – Guest Introduction
1:18 – What’s New with Dion (Sweet Magnolias)
2:33 – Season Turnover Time (Sweet Magnolias)
3:46 – Unpacking Erik Whitley (Sweet Magnolias)
4:51 – Adapting Source Material (Sweet Magnolias)
5:21 – Dion’s New Film (Kungfuland)
6:43 – Guest Starring on Stargate Felt Different Every Time
8:40 – Don’t Get Caught Up in the Process
10:24 – How Relaxing Can Make Work Easier
12:08 – Dion as Lt.Tyler/Kaiael (“The Fifth Man”)
13:12 – Dion’s Thoughts on Kaiael (“The Fifth Man”)
15:00 – Working with Richard Dean Anderson
16:05 – An Actor’s Responsibility to the Script
18:19 – Riffing on the Script (“The Fifth Man”)
19:43 – Kaiael’s Perception of O’Neill (“The Fifth Man”)
22:35 – David’s Favorite Lt. Tyler Moments (“The Fifth Man”)
23:16 – Why The Fifth Man Was So Exciting for Dion
24:23 – Dion’s Lessons from Filming “The Fifth Man”
26:53 – The Challenges of Filming in the Rain (“Beast of Burden”)
27:43 – What Dion Learned from Peter DeLuise
30:15 – Performing Under Heavy Prosthetics
32:05 – Dion as Wodan (“Metamorphosis”)
32:57 – “Metamorphosis” Had Big Sci-Fi Ideas
34:23 – Process of Creating Wodan (“Metamorphosis”)
36:32 – Wodan Had an Inner Grace (“Metamorphosis”)
38:40 – Prosthetics Inform the Character
42:19 – Wodan’s Point of View (“Metamorphosis”)
45:05 – Dion as Warrick Finn (“Forsaken”)
45:29 – Don’t Judge a Character by Their Appearance (“Forsaken”)
46:34 – Dion Portrayed Warrick as a Good Guy (“Forsaken”)
49:37 – Warrick Was Only Fleshed Out in “Space Race”
50:41 – Seeing Other Actors Take On Your Role
53:06 – The Importance of Being Grateful for Opportunities
54:06 – Stargate Was a Foundational Part of Dion’s Life
55:00 – Thank You, Dion
55:40 – Post-Interview Housekeeping
58:32 – End Credits

***
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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Welcome everyone to Dial the Gate: the Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I appreciate you being with me here for this episode. I am thrilled to welcome back Dion Johnstone, who has played numerous roles over the course of the SG-1 television series. Dion, it’s a treat to have you back, sir. How are you?

Dion Johnstone:
I’m great, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to come back and continue to unpack and reminisce …

David Read:
Absolutely.

Dion Johnstone:
… these amazing experiences that I had on the show.

David Read:
There are so many, and there was no way for us to cover all of them in that first episode. So, before we get into them, though, I do wanna ask, are there any updates to Sweet Magnolias since we last spoke earlier this year? Anything going on there that we need to be made aware of?

Dion Johnstone:
Season Five launched on Netflix on June 11th. And it did fairly well. It went to number four on Netflix worldwide. And it sat at the Top 10 list for about three weeks. And the feedback has been wonderful. It’s great running into people who’ve seen the season and expressed their love for it. I felt great doing it. It’s great to have it out there for people to see. At the moment we’re waiting to see what Netflix decides to do, whether or not we’ll be renewed or not. And as always, I sit in this place of feeling like it could be the end. And if so, I’m grateful for everything I’ve been able to do on the show. I’m also hopeful. We have lots more stories to share. And if that’s the opportunity we get, we’ll be back at it for another.

David Read:
Absolutely. When the show has moved forward in the past, is it a 12-month turnaround time per season typically in your experience? Is it 14, 15, 16 from one to the next to the next? Where would you typically fall?

Dion Johnstone:
It’s usually roughly about a year after wrapping. The time that it takes for the show to both be produced and to air and to be green-lit and then be back producing. This season was a little bit different in the sense that they delayed the release of it. So, we had quite a late release, a summer release. And in the past, by this point the writers’ room was already working on the next season. So, this year we don’t know what’s happening. You never really know. Whether it’s trying for a different slot to see how audiences react to that. We don’t know.

David Read:
So, I guess you’re dealing with what everyone in the Stargate community recently dealt with, except the other way around. There’s a chance always that– Especially because you have so many books that you guys can unpack from …

Dion Johnstone:
It’s awful.

David Read:
… if I’m not mistaken. It’s exciting one way or the other.

Dion Johnstone:
I definitely feel for my character, Erik Whitley. Season Five was a phenomenal season for unpacking who he is and where he comes from and why he is the way that he is. And it left with quite a satisfying resolution. So, if we’re not to continue, I do feel it’s a nice end chapter. But at the same time it’s built in such a way that it’s a platform to springboard onto the next stage of his evolution and his evolution in the relationship with Helen. So, I hope we’re given the opportunity. I think we have to wait and see.

David Read:
And that’s just it, that one way or the other you’re gonna have to wait and find out. How faithful is the series to the source material?

Dion Johnstone:
I haven’t read all of the source material. And we’re very loosely based. Our first season followed pretty much in line with the first three books. And then from there it sort of has branched off and become its own entity. So, it draws spiritually from the source material, but it has become its own entity by this point.

David Read:
Anywhere else we need to be keeping an eye out for you?

Dion Johnstone:
I just came back from a couple of months filming a feature film in Singapore, which is called Kungfuland. And it’s my first time doing a martial arts comedy. And it’s an irreverent, funny, but also heartfelt story. It’s the first-ever co-scripted production between Singapore and Canada, so that’s quite a big event for both countries. There’s not a lot, obviously, I can say at this point. It gave me the opportunity to learn skills that I never thought that I’m gonna film in this lifetime. So, I’m pretty proud of that and excited for people to finally see it.

David Read:
Very cool. Do you have an idea of when we can expect to see that?

Dion Johnstone:
I believe it’ll probably be about a year before it’s turned around. They’re very hopeful to have it premiere both at a festival that happens in Singapore once a year and also at the TIFF festival here in Toronto, which would be next fall. So, I think in about a year’s time, they’ll be releasing it.

David Read:
Very good. We’ll keep our eyes open for it.

David Read:
The last three characters that I wanted to focus on with you that we didn’t really get to touch on last time were characters in Seasons Five and Six. And in the later years of the show, it must have really felt like old leather getting back to that set and those people, I’m assuming. Were things in any way more comfortable in the later years, or did it feel different every time?

Dion Johnstone:
I think it felt different every time. And when I look back on it, one of the things that I recognize is I was always being encouraged to enjoy my space more, to trust that I had arrived as a valued member of the show and of this company. And to enjoy that a bit more. I was always very concerned about getting it right. And because each challenge was new. And quite often, some of my most significant challenges came under the directorship of Peter DeLuise. When I look back, some of the really interesting characters that really pushed me to the limit of what I thought I could do at that time were under his tutelage. And he was sort of giving me an education in filmography. And I always felt there was a bar that I was striving to reach towards, and I took that very, very seriously. And years later, I would be able to sort of look back and consolidate a lot of what I had learned and maybe didn’t understand immediately at that time. And the biggest lesson, I would say, over the last couple of years– And I would say even through Sweet Magnolias, [it] has been a process of going, “OK, you can let go. You can trust that you’re doing the work. You can trust that you arrived and you deliver what needs to be delivered. But now let yourself enjoy it a little more because this is also so fleeting. You never know if it’s gonna be your last, and you don’t wanna be waiting until the end to finally enjoy it and have it be gone.”

David Read:
I think it’s one of those things that we can all really take to heart and apply in a number of circumstances in our lives. When we’ve been selected for a part to play, whether it’s a cashier, whether it’s an actor, whether it’s whatever it is that you might be doing, trust that someone has picked you for this part to play in a process. And not only do the best you can at it, but don’t get lost in that process. Like you say, you’re in for this moment in time, and don’t turn inward and get lost. Take on the role that you are meant to play, that you have to be involved with other people. And do it the best that you can and accept the fact that you have something to give that someone else has seen that you can give. So, don’t get caught up in it. It’s there. It will find itself. Let it find its way out. That was a very poor way of articulating that, but I tried.

Dion Johnstone:
No, I think that’s a very good one. And sometimes that effort comes out of the best intentions. But it can get in the way of what it is that you’re trying to do. And often what you’re trying to achieve can happen so much easier if you relax and trust more and get out of the way of the natural process happening. Yes, you put in the work, but there’s overworking something as well too. And there’s trying to have too much control over it rather than trusting what comes out of inspiration, which you can’t control and you don’t know what you’re gonna do. So, it’s having confidence as well in the not knowing as it is in the precision of what you may be trying to do. So, it’s a balance.

David Read:
I’m reminded of what Stephen King said in On Writing, his memoir. “There’s always another word.” English is big enough that you can mine and mine and mine. There’s always another word that you can use when you’re trying to construct a sentence. But is it really gonna be better than your first instinct? “Just relax.” And if that word came to you, it shouldn’t always, but generally speaking, you can trust that that word came to you for a reason. That choice that you’re making as a creative person, that first impulse, can often be the best one. Or you can keep on digging. But will it really get you that much more mileage at the end of the day, or are you consuming resources in your brain, in your spirit?

Dion Johnstone:
That’s so true. So true.

David Read:
I’ve got a number of thoughts on this first character that I’d like to discuss with you. Season Five, you appeared as– This is the second time that we got to see your face. But it was actually a facade for another being. Rainmaker Digital did not create a lot of creatures at this point in time. They were much more known for their environments. And they stuck their neck out for the real and created something that was very, very different, and only seen on screen for a couple of shots. A remarkable-looking creature. But we knew him as Lieutenant Tyler from Texas. Tell me about this character and really being out in the thick of it for three or four days for this shoot. Also a DeLuise episode. Tell me about “The Fifth Man.”

Dion Johnstone:
That was a lot of fun to shoot, and a really interesting challenge because essentially their species are memory chameleons. It’s how they defend and protect themselves. Part of it is a chemical secretion that they can emit that will build memories in the people that they’re with. And that allows them to blend into the environment. They’re pacifists by nature, so they’re not aggressive and they don’t seek out battle and they don’t fight. So, this is their way of defending themselves. The fun challenge was playing… I’m a member of the team. I’ve been here since the beginning of the season. I’m like a new cast member of this season.

David Read:
For all intents and purposes.

Dion Johnstone:
Everybody knows who I am and everybody’s seen me. Now, the audience is in on it, but the characters are not. It was more playing the gaps in his awareness, that the gaps of where he’s not able to cover are where his identity is revealed. And that was a fun acting challenge to play coming from that standpoint, how to make it really subtle at first. Because the whole thing is maintaining the blend, maintaining the facade until I can’t do it anymore, till I need to reveal who I am.

David Read:
Once he no longer has a choice.

Dion Johnstone:
That was a lot of fun to do. Working with Richard Dean Anderson was fantastic. To see him– He was executive producer on the show. And in between takes, not only is he concerned about what we’re filming, he’s already planning ahead to the episodes coming. I would watch him in between setups, looking at future scripts and circling lines and making notes. And I asked him what he was doing, and he was pretty blunt about it. He’s like, “I’m making sure I don’t have egg on my face.” And when I kinda delved in more, I realized, OK, so he’s really not only a steward of the show and the integrity of the show, but a steward of his character and making sure that what comes down the pipes and what he eventually goes to perform is gonna have the integrity of who Jack O’Neill is and how he speaks and how he relates. And that was fascinating to me. I had come from a theater background at that point, where the script is the script. The script is the Bible and it’s inalterable. And so your work as an actor is trying to find, “How in the world do I arrive at saying these precise words?” And if I’m off by a word, the stage manager’s gonna let me know and give me a correction, and I’m gonna have to shift it back. But in this context, I learnt the lesson of, it doesn’t always work that way. And especially in film and TV, you do your best ’cause the writers have poured hours into each script, trying to make that story make sense. But there will be times where it doesn’t work. There may be too many words, or maybe they’re hitting on something, and you can feel it, but it’s not quite the right composition. And if you don’t say anything about it, then you arrive on the day and you film it, hoping that nobody notices. People will notice. People will notice when something is off. The lesson I’ve taken from working with him on that, and all the way even now, right through Sweet Magnolias, is I’ll get the script and I’ll do my best to honor what’s written. And even if it’s awkward, I’ll go up to the showrunner and say, “Is it written awkwardly because this is a moment where the character is in flux and can’t find what to say, and that’s what it’s meant to be?” And if it’s not that case, then in my back pocket I have a couple of suggestions. I could say that same thought, but if we alter the words like this, or if we added that word or subtracted that word or flip the order of this, it would flow a little bit more naturally and I could get to the thought. And I try to do that before we arrive on set so there’s lots of time to fix it or make whatever changes or help me come to an understanding that maybe I didn’t know, so that by the time we’re filming I can commit to what we’re doing. And that was a big lesson that I got during that period of time, what I would say your department is as the actor, your responsibility to steward the role and to protect the integrity of it. And that was really cool.

David Read:
Brad Wright told me once, and the broader discussion had been about Rick, but his ability to riff– because not only was he executive producer; he got scripts early — like you had indicated, he could see the track that they were laying down ahead. Brad once said to me, “If you’re changing the dialogue to change it, that pisses me off. If you’re changing it to make it better, great.” But it’s disarming to watch an actor go off track in another direction sometimes. Did he ever do that? Did he ever riff on the script for “The Fifth Man?”

Dion Johnstone:
Not to my memory of it. And certainly nothing that I would remember where I felt like, “Now we’re in improv land.” I pretty much remember, by the time we were filming, the dialogue that we had was what we were filming. Except for maybe slight alterations or variations. But not changing the lines or saying different dialogue.

David Read:
This character, I can imagine he’s not reading Jack’s mind specifically so much as presenting. Or do you think that there was a little bit of mind reading going on as well? ‘Cause I’m not entirely sure whether that–

Dion Johnstone:
I don’t think it’s mind reading.

David Read:
He’s aware of what he’s appearing as in some regard. He has to be. And then he’s using the elements around him to fill in the details. This MRE was made in — I think it was the MREs — it was made in Tyler, Texas.

Dion Johnstone:
Tyler, Texas. Exactly.

David Read:
He has those and then putting it there.

Dion Johnstone:
Where we saw, “Oh, this is where we got Tyler from.”

David Read:
Exactly.

Dion Johnstone:
Without knowing exactly how the species was designed, my instinct is that– It’s like a slight combination but it’s ultra-heightened senses. So, there is some sort of awareness of the shared vision that’s being projected to all people. Because even back on Earth, when Dr. Fraiser …

David Read:
Teryl.

Dion Johnstone:
… has the flash, she has the same image that everyone else has been having.

David Read:
That’s right.

Dion Johnstone:
So, I think he’s also able to glean from how people speak what the scenario is, what their structure is, what the world is, what they’re seeing, how they perceive him. So, I think it’s heightened, heightened, heightened senses. There may be some degree, maybe it is a developed sense of telepathy, but nothing I would think that would be like mind reading. Or else I think the blend could be more complete. There were a lot of things that sort of happened to him where he was completely clueless, things like he didn’t even know that he was missing. That was sort of like, “That’s odd. You don’t know how to catch a grenade?” “Is there a radio?” You don’t know.

David Read:
It’s little things like that.

Dion Johnstone:
You’re missing the, “There’s a joke.”

David Read:
I’ll share one of my favorite moments, and it’s a delivery in a moment here. But I think he’s a being that’s highly perceptive and just weaves that with the chemical itself. This is how his species responds to threats. And you, I would imagine, would develop your senses in line to carry out that ultimate goal. I’m not saying that they can’t defend themselves, but they probably leverage their technology in the same way to conceal like they already do. One of my favorite beats is a blip before O’Neill leaves, tells Tyler not to shoot him. And the delivery is… And rather than being joking, it’s serious. “I won’t.” He gets… Rick’s look on his face is like, “That’s odd.” It’s little things like that that I was like, “Yeah, that’s perfect. This guy’s not from home.” There’s so much going on in this character. He was one that I really would have wished that we would have seen again. But before we move on from him, anything else that you take away from that particular role?

Dion Johnstone:
I remember… Had all of these sequences. It was so much fun because I’m at one moment captured by the Jaffa warriors and taken to their camp. And I remember there was one shot where he makes a break for the gate. And I was told, “OK, so, we’ve got these explosions lined up and you’ve gotta run this specific path, and it’s sort of like a one-shot deal. So, here’s the path that you’re running. You’re completely safe, but it’s gonna look amazing, but you only have one take.” And the thrill and the excitement of doing stuff like that. This was the first episode, I think the only episode, where I got to walk through the gate. And that iconic leaving through the gate experience. I was like, “Wow, if I never do this again, I got to walk through the gate, and in such a cool fashion.” It was a great period of life for me, of learning lessons, of learning what it took to be a guest star on a production of this kind of magnitude. But also what it took to lead a show like this. Because I was very much watching the lead cast. This was fifth season now. And taking in lessons of how I wanted to be when I eventually had a show that I was the lead of. These are all foundational stuff. We shot at one point, and it was pouring rain, which is normal in Vancouver, and Vancouver has a way of– When you’re watching productions that have been filmed, you don’t realize that it’s raining. But if you’re there filming it, it’s pouring rain. You’re soaked. And it was a sequence where I was being chased by the Jaffa, and we’re in between setups. And I’m sitting underneath the tent, and it’s pouring. And Peter looks at me and he’s like, “What are you doing? Go to your trailer.” And I remember looking up at everybody, and I’m like, “The background is sitting out here. The stunt team is sitting out here. The entire crew is sitting out here.”

David Read:
They’re in the elements.

Dion Johnstone:
“Everyone is getting soaking in the rain. Why am I gonna go back and hightail it to my trailer?” And it wasn’t out of any sense of trying to be heroic or anything like that …

David Read:
You’re sharing the burden.

Dion Johnstone:
… but it did feel like– Exactly. “Here I am.” Another thing was I didn’t have to fake the cold, and didn’t have to fake the rain and fake the sense of being pursued by these people. All those elements I was able to take in and incorporate and allow it to be more real. But also the feeling of setting the tone. And I’ve always felt that’s important through a career like this. Yes, there’s times where you have to conserve your energy, and you’ve got multiple stuff that you’re doing, and so you go to your trailer and you’re working on your script, or you’re getting your rest. But if you have that opportunity to be there with everyone in the muck, so to speak, do that. ‘Cause I think that goes a long way for everybody to feel like, “OK, we’re all part of something here.” There isn’t some division. That was another thing that came up during that shoot that was important to me.

David Read:
The weather, especially in Vancouver, can be a really double-edged sword. You look at a lot of episodes of Stargate, particularly the other one that I was thinking of a moment ago, which was Chaka, the sequel episode of “Beast of Burden.” You opposite Michael Shanks. If I recall correctly, there’s rain in Michael’s shot and there isn’t in yours. But you have to be really looking for it. The cinematographers are so good at disguising it. And then it’s up to the sound guys that’s like, “Are we gonna acknowledge the rain in this scene?” In that instance they did. But you make it work. And you get your day. And you go home. And you know what? You looked badass. God, I love that character. We’ve mentioned DeLuise. Is there anything specific that he taught you? ‘Cause he’s an actor as well as a director. So he really is an actor’s director in that regard. As true as that can be. Anything that he’s taught you that you carry with you, or anything that you remember of him?

Dion Johnstone:
There’s a lot. One of the big lessons that he was trying to impart to me at that time, and it was very hard for me to hear, was, A, “You’re carving out a niche for yourself within this company that few other people are doing. There’s Alex Zahara, there’s yourself, and there’s maybe a small handful of other people.” And there are a small handful of people in this industry who can do it, playing these creature roles and being able to bring such life to them. And “Grab that opportunity. Don’t be afraid of that opportunity.” I was worried that what was gonna happen was I was gonna get known as the Stargate alien guy, and those were the only roles that I was gonna get. And there wouldn’t be an opportunity for my face to be seen again. And I was worried that by extension that might limit me in the rest of my career. And he kept encouraging me, “Don’t think about that. This is your way in. This is what you’re being asked for now. Take it. Embrace it. Go full in it. Because then from there, you build a reputation. People know you for the quality of the work that you bring. Then you can branch out and do other things. But you already have an establishment within the industry. You’ve already built yourself a name.” He reminded me of Andy Serkis. He’s like, “Look at him. Look at what he did with Gollum. And now he can… Now he’s directing. And now he can play virtually any role that he wants to play. And he has the craft to back that up, the skill to do it. So, take that opportunity.” And I remember it was really hard because they were long hours. You’re there at the crack of dawn. You’re there till the end of the night. You’re under conditions where you’ve got scleral lenses on that are uncomfortable. You’re managing your body heaters. There’s so much internal work that’s involved in pulling off a role like that. And you can feel like, “But nobody knows that it was me. Nobody knows that I did it.” So, at the end of the day, that’s a credit that doesn’t mean anything. And he’s like, “You’re looking at it the wrong way, and that’s not true.” And I’ve come to learn that people do know me for the work that I did on Stargate. In hindsight, I go, “I see what you were saying.” And I wish at the time I had more faith and more understanding to really grab onto it. But I still hold onto that. And it was also very much… Each character, he would send me on a different hunt in terms of, “I want you to look at this film. I want you to think of this book or this novel. So, do some research. Learn more about cinematography and more about film and more about these character types as your preparation for playing this role, as inspiration.” It was great working with him. And he would never settle. So, if I wasn’t achieving it, he’d keep pushing and keep pushing and keep pushing until it finally locked in. He’d be like, “OK, now we’re in the pocket. There we go.”

David Read:
You just feel it. It’s something that you feel your way through. “Metamorphosis.” How familiar were you with The Elephant Man?

Dion Johnstone:
Vaguely. I knew of it, but I hadn’t seen at that point.

David Read:
John Hurt.

Dion Johnstone:
But that was, again, Peter said, “Go watch The Elephant Man. Watch John Hurt’s performance in that. Also look at The Hunchback. And have a look at that as background as well too.” The Hunchback of Notre Dame. And what an amazing performance to show under a mask that is almost immovable through lights and shadows and heart, to show so much humanity. Astonishing.

David Read:
This is a special role when I look back and watch it. And underneath all of that, it’s a very interesting vocal choice as well. I see Woden, I’m not revolted by– Initially, you’re revolted by him, of course. That first instinct when you see a being like that, it’s like, “Whoa, what’s happened here?” But the guy’s not evil. He does threatening things. Your takeaway could be, this is a very dark character. But I pity this guy and his circumstances. And I feel guilty because what’s happened to him is because of our guys and the choice that they made to honor a deal in exchange for saving a little girl’s life. This civilization has been irreparably harmed. And maybe it’s undone in the end, but there’s damage up here that can never be washed away. These are big sci-fi ideas. Who was this guy?

Dion Johnstone:
That was another hunt to find Woden. A, to figure out the prosthetics. To figure out how he moved. How he spoke. I was working with big, beautiful, but clunky, awkward teeth that changed the embouchure of my mouth. And that was one of the challenges where Peter kept saying, “No, that’s not the voice. That’s not the voice. It’s not the voice.”

David Read:
So, he worked together to find it.

Dion Johnstone:
Eventually it sort of settled where he was like, “There it is.” He had me do a vocal reaction, which was so unnatural to myself. And it’s around the time when we first meet the team and they reveal that my brother’s dead. And I don’t believe it. And he wanted me to let out almost like a high-pitched squawk or a shriek. And it felt so weird. I felt I would process the grief in a more natural human way. And he kept pushing. “No, I want something– It’s more like a squeal. Go for it, like a high-pitched twuck.” So, I did it. And in hindsight, when I watched it, I was like, “Wow, that’s amazing,” because it completely disarms him. It completely opens this crack of vulnerability in him, as if his body has reacted before his mind could process and control it in any way. That was a really cool bit of direction and an acting moment and a layer to him. I found that through the pain of moving his body with each step that he took, one of the areas where he was free was in the use of his powers. And the use of his telekinesis. And what started to evolve was a grace with how he could make things move. How he could orchestrate lifting up the bars of the prison cell. How he could stop a bullet in midair. Even how he attacks Nirrti in the end and ends up choking her.

David Read:
It’s that which is the most …

Dion Johnstone:
But there was power and–

David Read:
… effortless for him.

Dion Johnstone:
Yes.

David Read:
If there is anything that is.

Dion Johnstone:
Exactly. And so in a twisted body that hunches, and you can feel that there’s pain with every step he takes, when he goes into that realm, there’s power and grace. And then it was this very cool juxtaposition. So much of that episode was about perception. These people believing that they have found their savior and are willing to defend with their lives her safety. And then realizing that who they’ve given themselves to is worse than they could imagine. And I feel that’s echoed in their bodies. Their bodies look twisted and deformed, and they look like you can’t trust these… These are evil creatures. And yet I found that there was a nobility in him that I almost imagined in another life he could’ve been a butler or a steward of some kind. There was some element of grace that had been stripped from him because of this process, but was still in him.

David Read:
This is what’s left. It’s interesting with this character– How do I wanna phrase this? The note from Peter, I think, is very telling. “We, generally speaking, having looked at ourselves in the mirror long enough, know how we come off to other people. Not just by looking at ourselves, but also by judging how people react to us. And so we can do certain things with our face or with our voice or with how we move that will convey certain things.” But like you said before, you were feeling on the day this doesn’t feel right. It’s interesting to recognize that when you are under so much prosthetic, you can feel certain things fall into place in a character when you see it in the mirror. But also you have to rely more on the outside opinions of others because they’re looking in video village and seeing how it’s really coming across on all the different monitors. And you’ve got Peter in front of you saying, “OK, this is not something that you’re normally used to wearing and appearing as. This sound plus this look, this works.” And then you go back and watch the footage later, and you’re like, “Yeah, that was it.” You can’t always feel your way through it. Sometimes you really do have to rely on the people around you to go, “OK, yes. I was unsure about that, but they were right.”

Dion Johnstone:
So true. It really is a combined effort. And when you’re working with prosthetics especially, it’s even more so that collaboration. It’s funny, I used to do mask work, which is, I think, why I took so well to playing aliens on Stargate, ’cause part of my training was in working neutral mask. And then evolving it into character mask. And we always did it in front of a mirror initially. And it was because the mirror would give you the information that would help you understand what the character was. ‘Cause you couldn’t always feel it internally, ’cause the mask itself tells you who the character is. So, part of it was training ourselves to understand what the mask was showing us and how that would naturally evolve into the body before you would step away. And then the other thing was you never did it solo. You always had an outside observer. In this case it was our instructor, and he would always tell us at what point it was time to take off the mask. And when he said, “Take off the mask,” no matter where you were, what you were going through, you had to take it off. And sometimes that was for our safety if we went too far into something and then he was like, “OK, we need to abort this now.”

David Read:
You can get sucked in.

Dion Johnstone:
Psychological safety or whatever, “Take off the mask.” To have an outside authority that could be a watch person over everybody. And then gradually, once you got that understanding, then we would remove the mirrors and do a day in the life of the characters and let them evolve naturally. That’s essentially the process that was happening here as well, having Peter on the outside seeing the mask, seeing how it was being interpreted by the camera, and seeing what worked and what didn’t work and building it up to the place where it was like, “OK, this is a three-dimensional character now. This is no longer a person in a rubber suit.”

David Read:
When you’re playing this role and the people who are directly responsible for what’s happened to your people are in your clutches, do you, through the character, feel that SG-1 deserved to be punished for what they did? He really could have relished mistreating them, and he doesn’t. Maybe a little bit, but not really. There is restraint there. He does use his telekinesis to bend them to his will but it’s not excessive. He’s not torturing people for nothing.

Dion Johnstone:
He’s missing the information, though, I believe, of their prehistory with Nirrti. From his point of view, Nirrti is their savior. And they are coming here to remove her. And because of Eggar, who has telepathy, they’re very aware that they want to destroy her. And to them, she is their life-giver. And that’s what causes him to turn on them, in hindsight afterwards realizing that she was lying. We don’t find out in the episode that they have any knowledge that this all happened because they let her go, and then she went and subsequently did this. Although Eggar could find that out through telepathy. I would think, because from go their entire action with Stargate has been, “We’re trying to help you. And we are risking our lives to help you. And in fact, one of our own has died in the process of trying to help you guys, trying to prevent what happened to your brother from happening to you.” I think he would be forgiving of the mistake that they earlier made that led to this. Because she is deceptive, and she’s deceived them. And because they went to such an extent and were willing to die in the process to free them, I think that would carry a lot of weight.

David Read:
I like that perspective. For sure. Cool character, man. This next one, this makeup job for Warrick. “Forsaken.” It’s a beautiful makeup job. Very elegant. Chaka’s is still my favorite, but this one is so specific and unique. And this was another example of a character that you don’t wanna judge by their appearance, in terms of what they’re capable of and who they are. But for very different reasons. I loved this twist. And I also loved that if someone had to pick it up and carry it without you, that Alex was the one who got the opportunity to carry the character on. Even though it was a fairly different interpretation in some respects. Tell me about Warrick and being stranded without his family on this planet where the bad guys look like us.

Dion Johnstone:
It’s a great twist. And it’s wild, because let’s say in “The Fifth Man,” where you know from go … your audience knows that you don’t belong. They’re sort of in on it. You can’t play the knowledge that they already have, so you’re playing from a different place. This one, you appear the enemy. And I guess the acting trap is to wanna appear the hero. Is to play heroically. But I found essentially in the way the set-up is, play your objective, which is survival. And play it hard. And the way it’s laid out will make you look like the villain. And the opportunity to reveal yourself, which really comes only sort of in the second half of the episode, was in his big monologue where he talks about who he is, how they crashed, how the prisoners got free, how they’ve been surviving and are being hunted, essentially. I found for me it was important to land that in a way that was both emotionally true, but without being sentimental in any way as well too. Because that’s sort of the heart of the guy, and that’s his self. And that’s his moment to make the audience go, “I completely misjudged this. It’s the complete opposite, in fact.” You get hints along the way from the prisoners that something about them is off. So, the audience is already keyed into it. But to see the humanity of who this guy is, even though he’s an alien species … but they’re a species who have coexisted very fruitfully with human beings for some time. He’s another character who– It’s interesting that you mention a sense of elegance, ’cause that’s what I thought of him as. He’s both a commander and a captain, and a prison warden in a sense for this ship, but a gentleman.

David Read:
He has a code.

Dion Johnstone:
Yeah, exactly. And you see that in how he’s collected all of the dog tags of his officers who have died in the pursuit and the conditions that they’re living under. In the photograph of his wife that Colonel O’Neill finds. So, I just wanted to really capture that sense. This is a good man. He’s an open heart. He’s a gentleman. But he’s been stuck under these conditions where he’s fighting to survive. And now he’s down to the last… He’s the last man standing, essentially by this point.

David Read:
He’s the only one left from his crew. When you look back at the runtime, this is probably the one that you had the least amount of screen time with. God, I enjoy Alex’s performance in the next one, but I really wish you had a chance to come back and sink your teeth into that next round because there’s so much to this character. All three roles are awesome. But this one, there was something that I really think was untapped with that character that they could have gone more with, that we see echoes of.

Dion Johnstone:
As well as you feel like it’s the opening act of …

David Read:
I do. Very much so.

Dion Johnstone:
… something that could have been fully fleshed out through another story. Just like Chaka, where you realize, “Wow, ‘The First Ones’ was just the opening act of who this character would become.” And it’s exciting to see him evolve in “Beast of Burden.” And even though I didn’t get to play him in the next one, to see where he goes to. And it would have been lovely to continue Warrick’s journey.

David Read:
And with this guy as well, with Alex in “Space Race.” In all honesty, is there a frustration in seeing someone else take on a role that you started off with? Or is it one of those things that’s, “Hey, this is the business. I had to make a choice. My contract says I’m over here for this one. They couldn’t accommodate?” Do you block it out of your mind? How do you view that?

Dion Johnstone:
I’m trying to think back to how I felt at the time. I think I had–

David Read:
Two big parts.

Dion Johnstone:
I eventually saw Patrick’s role as Chaka. And I really liked that episode. I think maybe last time we talked I’d forgotten that I had seen it. But I did watch it and enjoyed it, even though it was very different from what I brought. But I think sometimes a character … it’s interesting to see different people in the roles because …

David Read:
It’s true.

Dion Johnstone:
… you have a sense memory of what the baseline of that character is. And they allow other characteristics to poke out and evolve that you wouldn’t necessarily get. But it took me a long time before I watched that, ’cause I was more connected to Chaka. And I really did wanna play it, but circumstances wouldn’t let it happen. I avoided watching. And then eventually did. I have yet to see Alex in this role. And I love working with Alex. He’s such a phenomenal, wonderful actor. So, I’m sure I would enjoy what he did with it. And it would be very different ’cause we have very different energies.

David Read:
It’s more similar to your interpretation than Patrick’s Chaka was to your Chaka, I will say that. We only can do so much, especially when you’re really hitting it and getting the work that you wanna get. I assume at a certain stage it’s, “Yep, you can’t get them all.” And again, it’s going back to that perspective of gratitude, being thankful for the shots that we are given.

Dion Johnstone:
True. I remember in order for me to be able to shoot “Beast of Burden,” it meant that Peter DeLuise couldn’t direct the episode, which was his episode to direct as well. ‘Cause they really tried to negotiate a window where I could do it, and I was tied up in a theatrical performance at that time and they couldn’t release me. So, they’re like, “Then we’re gonna have to shoot it earlier, which means we’re gonna have to adjust the schedule, which means Peter, you can’t direct this.” So, I remember feeling, “Ah…” and he’s like, “No, no, that’s not you. Don’t worry about it. You’re gonna be in good hands.” But that’s the trade-off. So, I understand it. I’ve experienced it. And on some level you have to let it go. You have to go, “OK, then this is the way that it’s gotta be. Not much I can do about it.”

David Read:
You’re gonna make it work with what you have. Dion, I cannot thank you enough for coming back on and letting us really conclude the conversation that we started earlier this year. This has meant the world to me, to have you back and to explore these different roles. Stargate has been good. It’s thrown a bone to many an actor over the years. God, they threw you a steak.

Dion Johnstone:
I will always look back at this time in my life as foundational. It really set the template, gave me lessons that I still use today. Really helped carve the kind of actor I wanted to become and have continued to grow into. So, I’m eternally grateful to the show.

David Read:
We are so thankful to have you share these stories. And we may not have a new Stargate series anytime soon, but what a great series of roles to look back on. And truly, all the best to you on this ongoing series, which will get a Season Six. It’s a question of when. I’m putting that out there in the universe. There’s some wood here.

Dion Johnstone:
Amen.

David Read:
But it’s such a treat to sit down with you again and share so much of your history with us. Thank you.

Dion Johnstone:
Thank you. Pleasure.

David Read:
What a guy. Dion Johnstone. Tyler, Chaka, Warrick. I can’t keep them all straight. Wodan. Gosh, man. One of my favorite actors from the whole show. My name is David Read. You’re watching the Stargate Oral History Project. If you enjoy Stargate and you like what you see in this episode, really do click that Like button. It does make a difference with the show and will continue to help us grow as we move into the latter half of Season Six here. And if you have a Stargate friend in your sphere of friends that you think might enjoy this episode, share it with them and let them know that we’re out here. And if you wanna get notified about future episodes, click subscribe. And if you go give the bell icon a click, we’ll notify you the moment a new video drops, and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes, ’cause a lot of our episodes are live. My team and I do not get through this alone. We get through this with a lot of help from patrons, Patreon members, and I am so thankful for each and every one of them out there. You guys are making this show continually possible for me to move forward with new people. Especially since we lost the new series. It would be hard to continue Dial the Gate at this point without the help of my backers. And I’m so eternally grateful to all of you. Eternally, that may sound like hyperbole, but not very much. This has become a project that I can no longer pull off with me and my team. It means the world to me to have your guys’ support every month. Tremendous thanks to my producers, Antony Rawling, Bryce. You guys make this show possible. I have so much support from my moderating team, Antony, Kevin, Lockwatcher, Marcia, Raj, Jakub, Enigma, Stephen. Matt “Eagle SG” Wilson for his extraordinary sequences, along with Venture Pictures. Frederick Marcoux at ConceptsWeb, who keeps dialthegate.com up and running. A whole team of people who help bring Dial the Gate to you week in and week out. I’m thankful so tremendously. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in, and I will see you on the other side.