He rode in on a white horse to save Atlantis in her darkest hour. Now “Dillon Everett” actor Clayton Landey joins Dial the Gate to remember that chapter from his past and discuss his overall career!

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Welcome everyone to — What is the episode? It just came up on the screen and it is gone. 346 of Dial the Gate: T he Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I appreciate you being with me here for this episode. Clayton Landey, this is Colonel Dylan Everett, United States Marine Corps. He is joining me this hour. We’re gonna talk about his career, his life, what led him to Atlantis and to the Pegasus Galaxy. And we’ve got him for a live show, so if you are in the chat right now you can go ahead and submit your questions over to him. Hello, sir.

Clayton Landey:
Hello there.

David Read:
It’s a pleasure to have you.

Clayton Landey:
Thank you for having me. Listen, someone has a team that wants to talk to me, I’m ready.

David Read:
Absolutely. No, this is a privilege for me because I … Clayton, I honestly didn’t think you would agree to it because I grew up with Knots Landing, so I do have that in my back pocket, although I was really young when we watched it. I watched it in re-runs. But this character left such an impression on me, I couldn’t describe, because I grew up with a military officer in my house. And it’s not like he made me snap-to or anything when I came in the room, but I respond very positively to most kinds of authority in that direction because I know if you don’t respond and you don’t get going, something … lives are at stake. I loved this guy and–

Clayton Landey:
That thrills me because I am a person who has fled and buckled and fought against authority my entire life. I don’t accept authority for authority’s sake, and I’m one of those who speak truth to authority, speak truth to power. I question authority at any and all times. This is a particularly fraught time for us right now where we have to deal with that in a way that we should never have to. And I won’t … Let’s … No. I won’t get political. And yet, I have played any number of authority figures, military fig[ures], majors, colonels, captains, judges. I don’t know what it is about me that draws people to see me in those roles, but I’m very happy, very grateful that they have seen me in those lights. In fact, I remember auditioning for this, I remember it vividly, the room was filled with guys who had starred in their own series, two of whom I recall guesting on their shows, and they didn’t even give me a nod in the room. And yet I’m the guy who — and I won’t mention the shows or the people–

David Read:
Just sour grapes. Ok. I don’t mean to derail you.

Clayton Landey:
In that situation, I would say two things go on. A, it’s not sour grapes so much as it’s people believing that they deserve diva status and–

David Read:
For God’s sake, they put their pants on like everyone else does.

Clayton Landey:
Thank you very much. And also, I have a friend I will mention, Ray Abruzzo, who was a regular on Sopranos, was a regular on Dynasty when I was doing Knots Landing. He and I became friends because we were both up … They were adding a series regular role to Night Court, and they cast a wide net, and I would bet you they had looked at 500 people. It was a rare time. Usually, you’ll go and there’s an audition, maybe there’s a callback for a series regular role. There could be two or three, and then you’re gonna get tested at network. They saw us five times for that show, and from the very first time, the very first audition, Ray and I looked across the room and spotted each other. We did not know each other, and we looked at each other and said, “Him.”

David Read:
There’s a vibe.

Clayton Landey:
It was him or me, and we both knew it. And we proceeded… How much language can I use on this show?

David Read:
For the first five minutes, PG-13, and we are at 6:15, so please proceed.

Clayton Landey:
But we proceeded to mess with each other. I can talk now?

David Read:
You can.

Clayton Landey:
We just started fucking with each other. We just went for each other, and in those days — it’s very different now — in those days it was the green room and typically you were up for a gig, there was five people in the room, you knew the other four because you saw them every time. Ray and I had never come across each other, and we saw each other and we knew he’s the one I gotta look out for. And so, we just started dicing each other, getting in each other’s heads, playing the game, going for each other like we were on a street corner. And with each succeeding level, we got into it even more. Knives in each other’s heads, and it did… it came down to him or me. He got the role. God bless him. And as a result, we’ve been friends for over 35 years and we–

David Read:
There’s mutual respect there. An appreciation for talent.

Clayton Landey:
Because we had really gone for it and we knew how to play the game in the green room so that we could go do our job in the audition room, in the space. And we finally, last year, he had the lead in a picture called Sonny Boy and I got to play his brother and it was so funny because they reached out to me, I get an email, I get an offer to do this film, and they try to explain, “You’re gonna play Ray Abruzzo, you would play Ray Abruzzo’s brother, and Ray Abruzzo is so-and-so and he’s done such and such and such and such.” You’re explaining this to the wrong guy. And we had the best time. And the funny thing was, we had this great scene, a party scene, and it’s in his honor, and it’s me telling stories about him. And we were … between takes we’re sitting on the stairs just shooting the shit. Just having a great time talking about the histories that we shared, and we go back to off-off-Broadway together. We were in the same place at the same time throughout our career and had not crossed paths until then. And so, we’re just having a great time. Well, they shot us talking together on the stairs, and that’s what’s in the film.

David Read:
Just the banter.

Clayton Landey:
‘Cause that’s what they wanted…

David Read:
It’s genuine.

Clayton Landey:
…was that feeling between the brothers, that shared history. So, it was really funny.

David Read:
There is something to be said for, I guess it depends on your character, your constitution as a person when you… ‘Cause you can certainly take it as threatening. When you come across a peer who it’s like, “Damn, they’re good,” and you can either attempt to tear them down psychologically through talking behind their back to peers.

Clayton Landey:
No, never.

David Read:
Or you can say, “You know what? He’s got something there that I want. And I wanna be just as good as that guy.”

Clayton Landey:
I have such a respect and a love for talent that I want to spend my time with talent. Talented people who understand what it is that we do, why we do it and how hard we have to work to do it. I did a reading the other night with a room full of talented people. I was thrilled to be in the room with them, and I’ve been doing this for 52 years now and it’s… I’m deeply grateful for the opportunities I’ve had, for the life that I’ve had, and the joy and the life that this business has given me, and it’s been hard work every step of the way. I’m not the golden boy. I’m the guy who’s in support of the golden boy.

David Read:
You’re probably better for it.

Clayton Landey:
Maybe. I would not disagree with that.

David Read:
Some people need more problems to overcome rather than obstacles to avoid.

Clayton Landey:
And I’ve never been the one to be up on a pedestal. So, I didn’t have to deal with that part of the business. Ever. It’s only now, and it’s really… it’s funny to me to a certain degree. I’m still… Look, I’m very fortunate, 52 years I’ve done over… I’ve got over 400 credits in this business. Film…

David Read:
That’s a lot.

Clayton Landey:
…TV , theater, commercials, and the first time I wrote that out it was in response to somebody who was being an idiot. And now when I see it on the page it’s like, “Well wait a minute. I really did do all of that!”

David Read:
It’s not insignificant.

Clayton Landey:
“How did that happen? How did I get from there to here?”

David Read:
One or the other.

Clayton Landey:
And I’m old enough now to have some retrospection for me, it’s introspection for me and yet, I walk past the mirror, I see an out of work actor. I see a guy looking for his next job. But I’ve been fortunate enough to be here long enough to have all that behind me, and I teach advanced classes here in town now.

David Read:
You’re in LA.

Clayton Landey:
I’m a member of the national board. It’s really surprising to me to receive the kind of respect that I used to give, that I still give, to those who I look up to, and you forget when you’re in the game, at that time with Ray. At that time in our careers, we were both… He was a regular, I was doing recurring. You’re fortunate enough to be a working actor. I got a gig like Stargate, it was like, “Thank God, the mortgage is taken care of this month.” That’s a great thing. And you’re thinking of yourself as a working actor, you’re working hard to maintain where you are, maybe get ahead a little bit if you can. And you forget, until now, where I’m teaching the kids who are coming up, and I’m very particular about the people I work with, the students that I do take on. You have to interview. You have to audition to work with me.

David Read:
You have to see something.

Clayton Landey:
Exactly right. If I’m gonna spend my time with you, there has got to be a real reason for that to occur. If we’re gonna share that time, you better be good enough to be in the room with me, and I gotta be good enough to lead you somewhere.

David Read:
But you’re not… You find yourself surprised, though, when other people, you just said, provide you with the same kind of respect that you received. And it’s so… We could break that down until the cows come home, but I think that there is something there which, at its core, is gratuity for where it is, or gratitude…

Clayton Landey:
Gratitude.

David Read:
… for where it is that you have–

Clayton Landey:
Gratitude.

David Read:
Here’s my bill.

Clayton Landey:
I’ll accept a gratuity.

David Read:
You’re right, yes.

Clayton Landey:
But gratitude.

David Read:
Gratitude for where you are.

Clayton Landey:
Yes.

David Read:
So, that it never gets, excuse me, kiss the ring.

Clayton Landey:
God, no.

David Read:
So, this is–

Clayton Landey:
And it was not until now, excuse me, where I’m working with these people, that you remember… Because you’re that working guy, making your bills, taking care of your family. This is the profession that you’ve chosen or it’s chosen you. And I think it’s chosen you, otherwise you’re not here to have the conversation. Until you get with these people who are trying to get their first step on the ladder or get further up on the ladder, you realize there’s 200,000 other people who want to be standing where you’re standing. It doesn’t occur to you while you’re in the climb. And working your ass off to be in the climb, that you’re that far ahead of so many other people who want what you’re doing, want to be where you are. And that’s when, really, gratitude shows up, man. If you haven’t said thank you so far, you better start saying it now.

David Read:
It is a competitive industry, and it’s–

Clayton Landey:
Incredibly so. And we forget when we’re in the competition how fortunate we are to be in competition.

David Read:
You could be in the soup line in six months. If you have a really good gig, depending on how much you’ve got banked up, even sooner. We’re never promised tomorrow. I’ve lost some family members this summer.

Clayton Landey:
I’m sorry.

David Read:
Pretty tragically. Thank you. And it’s been a lot of introspection in that regard. A lot of plumbing these deep thoughts of, “What is it that you have now? How thankful have you been because of what you have now?” ‘Cause it can all get ripped away. And…

Clayton Landey:
In a heartbeat.

David Read:
… to be afforded an opportunity to stand in front of people, even if you’re reading someone else’s lines, even if you’re making choices that you yourself wouldn’t necessarily make, finding a way in your mind to make yourself convinced that In this guy’s shoes, I would say this. And speaking to people and conveying a message to them, hopefully one that ultimately shares a great story, a great entertaining experience, but also, at the end of the day, another larger message, maybe give something back to someone. That’s a gift.

Clayton Landey:
It is. It absolutely is. We’re fortunate enough to be able to earn our daily bread doing that. And if you’ve been doing it well enough, long enough, you get to choose; certain opportunities come your way that allow you to take on projects that have something to do with what you believe in. That’s not an everyday occurrence. It’s rare and it’s a joy when we have that opportunity.

David Read:
Can I take a roundabout segue with you for a moment?

Clayton Landey:
Go.

David Read:
What’s Joan Collins like? You mentioned Dynasty.

Clayton Landey:
That’s one of the divas whose name I will not speak.

David Read:
OK. I bring her up because she was a… She played a very memorable role in a Star Trek episode called The City on the Edge of Forever.

Clayton Landey:
Early on, in the original series.

David Read:
And I’ll never forget this quote of hers. She swears by this, but I just think she’s just saying so. Someone asked her, “Aren’t you Alexis Colby, that bitch from Dynasty?” And she turns around and goes, “No, no, no. I’m Edith Keeler, Depression-era social worker from Star Trek.”

Clayton Landey:
And you fell in love with Edith Keeler .

David Read:
I did.

Clayton Landey:
As Kirk did.

David Read:
Until she got hit by the friggin’ truck.

Clayton Landey:
But how do you play with time? Can you play it with time? What else does it cost you to say that?

David Read:
To get roped into sci-fi, it has some of the most dedicated fans out there.

Clayton Landey:
It’s astounding to me. Listen, we’re having a conversation I never assumed in my life I would have. And it is due to the fact that I’ve worked in a number of sci-fi, and I’ve done it with horror. And again, at the time, I’m fortunate to have a job. I am a sci-fi fan. I get asked more about a couple of horror things that I did than anything else. Not a particular horror fan, but loved doing it. Putting yourself in the reality is what we do as an actor. How do I live that moment? And that’s fun stuff to do. Some people are like, “I’m having been paid to see.”

David Read:
There’s something good about having a good scare.

Clayton Landey:
But what I will tell you, I’ve now had… Again, holy mackerel. I’ve had the opportunity, and I’m deeply grateful, to have done a couple of fan conventions. I’ve just signed to do another one. I remember the very first one I did, I did a Monsterama here in Atlanta. People came out of the woodwork. People came from small towns in North Georgia with Nightmare on Elm Street and Blob posters for me to sign. It’s like, “My God.”

David Read:
It meant something to them.

Clayton Landey:
“That meant something to you?”

David Read:
They’re gonna drive.

Clayton Landey:
Again, I was so happy to put food on the table. And I had a ton of fun doing it. But I had one woman bought two… I had to autograph two photos from Nightmare on Elm Street for her. Nightmare… I did number three. And there’s a ton of people who have said to me, “This is my favorite. This is the best of the Nightmares.” I was very happy to get the job. And worked with the director three times as a result of that. And it was important to her to get two, because her husband lived through stage-three cancer, and the place that he went to, to get relief and to solace, was Nightmare on Elm Street 3.

David Read:
Interesting childhood, probably.

Clayton Landey:
In a million years, you couldn’t have told me that doing Nightmare on Elm Street 3 was gonna make a difference in someone’s life. And yet, here’s this woman in tears… Embrace this person because this made a difference in her and her husband’s life. I can’t imagine that.

David Read:
Horror, in particular, leaves you naked. I think it is one of the more honest emotions. It’s also the most instinctual with our little lizard brain way in there. I should have gone into therapy over the nuclear apocalypse sequence from Terminator 2 when I saw it for the first time, and I was nine years old, and I had serious concerns, preoccupations with the end of the world, and as an adult, it’s one of my favorite films of all time. There’s certain things that just stick with you when you’re young and impressionable, and hopefully you can sort your way out of them, and it sounds like with this guy, it gave him a great deal of comfort.

Clayton Landey:
It did. There’s the word, comfort. And the first few times, and this is pre-fan convention cons, people would tell me along the way that, when they were a kid, Nightmare on 3 was their favorite one. I was like, “Your parents should be investigated for child abuse. They took you to see Nightmare on 3 when you were how old?” I certainly wouldn’t let my kids see it.

David Read:
No, and I wasn’t allowed to see Terminator either. I was at a friend’s house. It’s that kind of thing. How much did you know about Stargate before Colonel Everett came down the pike for it?

Clayton Landey:
I looked up the film. Kurt Russell, the original Stargate, I was a big fan of that film. Kurt Russell, come on. Kurt Russell. This guy has never done anything that you didn’t believe 100% in everything that he was doing. His whole… What a career. What a life.

David Read:
And I’ve heard he’s a good guy.

Clayton Landey:
That’s what I am told. I have never had a personal interaction. I have friends who have and said, “Wonderful, wonderful guy.” And I completely bought the premise. I bought into the whole thing. I was a huge fan of that, and I had watched… I guess I saw most of the first season. I’m a sci-fi fan, so I knew Stargate the series as well. And a friend, Jay Acovone–

David Read:
Wonderful human being. I love the man. Salt of the earth. I’m sorry.

Clayton Landey:
Have you interviewed him? Is that how you know him?

David Read:
I have. I’ve met him twice. Wonderful guy.

Clayton Landey:
Jay… Actually it was funny. When I went up to do my first episode of Stargate Atlantis, Jay was in town to do another Stargate.

David Read:
“Moebius.”

Clayton Landey:
Jay was the first one to tell me about doing fan conventions and doing the cons . He said, “You gotta do this.” I said, “Wait a minute. Why are you doing it? Didn’t you die? What are you doing here?”

David Read:
It’s sci-fi.

Clayton Landey:
And that’s the beauty of Stargate. The very first episode, he comes back through the gate, it lops off the top of his head. But because it’s the Gate, he’s shown up eight times in other universes.

David Read:
Something like it.

Clayton Landey:
It’s like, “I love this. I absolutely love this.” And we worked with each oth[er]. We were both there doing guest shots, and we helped each other at night. We’d get together and work on our lines with each other to be ready for the next day’s work.

David Read:
That’s a great story.

Clayton Landey:
And I had done… Because I had done Hollywood Beat that he did with Jack. Great guy.

David Read:
He’s a great human being. Can you tell me… You said you remembered a lot from this audition. Who was this guy to you on the page? How did that manifest in the audition room? And what did the… I think it was Martin Wood who directed it if I’m not mistaken.

Clayton Landey:
Martin Wood directed it. John Smith was…

David Read:
John Smith.

Clayton Landey:
… producing it, and I will tell you, I am very happy to be here to talk about Stargate Atlantis. This was one of the great joys to do. I will tell you that, of the hundreds of things that I’ve done, which is still astounding to me… I can tell you two instances where I was treated this well. Rule of thumb in this business, pretty much every set you walk on is gonna be an asshole. And if you look around and you can’t figure out who the asshole is, it’s probably you. This one, no one. This was a working family. Everybody — And I’ll say top to bottom, but there was no top, there was no bottom. Everybody on this show received the same level of respect and care and thoughtfulness from everyone else on the show. It was phenomenal every moment on this set, every moment on this production. They were so cool. My wife is a civilian. This is one of those stories. We were high school sweethearts that didn’t see each other for 30 years, and we’re married now…

David Read:
Love has a way.

Clayton Landey:
…30 years. And we were fairly fresh when I did the show. I think I did this between 2003 and 2005, right around 2005.

David Read:
It was shot in ’04.

Clayton Landey:
’04.

David Read:
Yes, sir. You got it.

Clayton Landey:
’04. And we were married in ’03. And this group of people were so wonderful, ’cause I was up there for a couple of weeks, I did a couple episodes, that they sent for my wife. They — And she–

David Read:
They got her a ticket?

Clayton Landey:
Not just a ticket; they sent her the limo, they brought her up first class. She’d never been treated like this. And it’s the first set that she came to visit me on.

David Read:
Wow, out of all of them.

Clayton Landey:
And this is a studio show. So, we’re in the studio, and she’d never been in a studio before. And she’s walking along the wall, trying to stay out of people’s way, she doesn’t know what to do. John, producer, John Smith…

David Read:
John Smith.

Clayton Landey:
…goes and he sees her, he gets her, he puts her in his seat, gives her his headphones, sits her down in front of the monitor so she can see and hear absolutely everything. These people, they blew me away. They took us out to dinner with the cast that night.

David Read:
This is great.

Clayton Landey:
We were treated like gold. We were treated like the top cast on the show. It was amazingly wonderful.

David Read:
The opposite of how Colonel Everett was received when he walked in, at least from Weir.

Clayton Landey:
The exact opposite. And I will tell you, it’s so interesting that Martin Wood directed a ton of them. Him and John were involved in over 90 episodes. So, they were aware of every word on the page and how every word was supposed to translate to screen. And I’m telling you, they had both shows going at the same time, and there was a beautiful bleed-over between crew and creatives. They were so… They knew every little tick of that world. So that when I picked up that script for the audition, I didn’t have to make up anything. It was there. All I had to do was show up and be that human being. And frankly, as I say, I can see that room waiting to go in to audition. I was the only guy in the room who didn’t have his own show. So, I’m looking around at nothing but names. And as I said, two of those names, I’d been a guest on their shows and I didn’t even get a hello from them. They were either so involved in being there and blocking out the world, or one particular guy, a little bit of diva.

David Read:
Where was this? What city were you in?

Clayton Landey:
I was living in LA.

David Read:
You were in LA.

Clayton Landey:
I was in LA for 30 years. And this happened in LA. Because of Canadian production restrictions, et cetera, rules and regs, the majority of the creative cast and crew needed to be Canadian. And I didn’t find out until after, I could’ve gotten a Canadian citizenship, because my grandfather had been born in — Really weird. My great-grandmother was pregnant with my grandfather, visited a cousin in Montreal, had my grandfather while she was there and then came back. So, based on that, I could’ve been hired as a Canadian. So, anyway, the guest stars were often guys from LA. Men and women from LA.

David Read:
Especially in a season finale. This is a tent pole. They’re obviously spending some money here and…

Clayton Landey:
Absolutely.

David Read:
… in fact, Brad quoted me, “Yeah, we spent some money in that particular episode making it, making the Pegasus Galaxy look like a scene from Baghdad in the early ’90s.” This is…
It’s a role… The man comes into the room through the Gate. He immediately takes control. I am thinking to myself, “This guy is not a blowhard. He means what he says, and he will defend this city that he’s just stepped foot in with his life if that’s what’s required of him to do.” Pretty extraordinary just to even fathom that. Just to hand over my life, “Yes, Colonel O’Neill… He sent me through. These are the orders. This is what I’m gonna do. If it takes my life, I’ll do it.”

Clayton Landey:
David, thank you.

David Read:
Completely bought it, completely. I was like, “This guy has military experience.” I’m just listening to him, and it’s, “Yes. Yes, sir.” And I had a friend who’s… she’s a card-carrying feminist. She’s like, “Yep, loved the guy. Loved the character completely. Completely saw where he was coming from. A little bit of a dick to Weir, yeah, but he’s there to defend the city. He’s riding in on that white horse to do it.” So, she… I have gotten that again and again about this character.

Clayton Landey:
That is so unbelievably complimentary to me. That’s very meaningful to me that you… Thank you. Thank you. And that does two things for me. I have to tell you what I said to you previously. First of all, that’s what was on the page. And just the way that it was written, all I did was stand up and say their words. Secondly, I have to tell you, when I got the job, I was like, “How much trouble is this universe in if they’re sending me to save it?”

David Read:
I don’t know, where do life-sucking aliens fall on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs?

Clayton Landey:
And I gotta tell you, ther e is the fun element to be able to play that guy who then gets bit by a wraith and ages 100 years. I’ve got a couple of souvenirs here I can show you.

David Read:
Please. When appropriate, absolutely.

Clayton Landey:
First of all, for me, a kid who grew up putting baseball cards in his spokes in the Bronx. To get your own trading card, my God. This is… I have two. I actually have the one that they gave me when I signed it. And then a fan who bought it and then sent it to me. It’s to the moon to get your own trading card. Now–

David Read:
Middle there? That… there we go.

Clayton Landey:
First of all…

David Read:
The ball cap.

Clayton Landey:
… there aren’t a lot of these around, but they gave me this one.

David Read:
They gave you the ball cap as well?

Clayton Landey:
They gave me the ball cap.

David Read:
Wow, ’cause that’s a production patch.

Clayton Landey:
And this is fitted, baby.

David Read:
Ah, good. If anyone deserves to wear the Atlantis Expedition patch, it is you, sir.

Clayton Landey:
Unbelievable.

David Read:
Who wasn’t a regular part of that. You come in, you nearly — well, he does. You nearly lose your life, and you are rolled away. Man!

Clayton Landey:
And I’ll tell you, the one thing that wasn’t on the page that I tried to inject in there, towards Torri’s character, I was like, “Ooh, I’m attracted to her. Let me add that in the scene and see what happens.” By the way, she and Joe and David, wow. What magnificent people to share the work with. Each of them such lovely human beings, such lovely individuals. And this goes to Martin and John and the kind of people they surrounded themselves with. When I talk about a family, there was not one person from the biggest star, Joe and Torri — come on — to the guy who came to get me in the morning. First of all, they sent the guy to come and get me in the morning. Instead of coming to the set for coffee, he says, “I got a place to take you for cappuccino. You’re gonna really like this.” Those were the kind of people they surrounded themselves with. And I think it was called Argento’s. Every morning, he took me there on the way to the studio ’cause he knew I liked a good cappuccino. It was unbelievable.

David Read:
And did they keep you at the Solimar?

Clayton Landey:
At the–

David Read:
The Solimar was usually where they put up the actors, unless they had the apartments where they took them to. But it’s–

Clayton Landey:
It wasn’t apartments, it was a hotel. And I was down the hall from Jay when I was there.

David Read:
That’s right . It would’ve been the Solimar. A great hotel. I’ve stayed there a few times.

Clayton Landey:
Terrific.

David Read:
It was top shelf, this show. All the way down to the craft service guys…

Clayton Landey:
All the way.

David Read:
…and the people who mop the floors.

Clayton Landey:
All the way. And I’m telling you that they treated my wife that same way. It’s like, my God, you don’t get this kind of treatment in this business. I’m used to fighting for a room, fighting for a j…. I want a triple. Don’t put me in a box. These people took care of us. They cared about their show, and they cared about their people. It wasn’t just product to them.

David Read:
That’s right.

Clayton Landey:
Which has really got lost by the wayside. [inaudible]

David Read:
It’s all content now. It’s just content.

Clayton Landey:
It’s cont[ent]. That word is appalling.

David Read:
It’s like the porn industry. You just have to keep on cranking out. Nothing has to necessarily be of substance. It just has to occupy their brain. But saying something that means something still matters.

Clayton Landey:
When I first went to LA, I was fortunate, ABC brought me up. But when I first drove in, and I crossed the county line, I said, “All right, when I cross the county line, I’m no longer arguing about what I am.” I’m just… all we’re doing is haggling over price.

David Read:
Sweet.

Clayton Landey:
Let me show you this.

David Read:
Well, is that–

Clayton Landey:
This is…

David Read:
Is that the mold they took of you?

Clayton Landey:
This is the mold. And I have –, I’m not gonna pull it down — I’ve got behind me one almost 20 years to the day. I did one for The Blob, because I got sucked down the drain, so they had to do a life mask that they could crush. And then they did this one for Stargate Atlantis , because I had to be aged and they had to do the age makeup.

David Read:
Now, if I may insert, did you already know that you were gonna come back for “Siege: Part Three…”

Clayton Landey:
Yes.

David Read:
… to have — OK . All right.

Clayton Landey:
Yes.

David Read:
‘Cause they didn’t–

Clayton Landey:
When–

David Read:
That was a great thing. They didn’t have to technically do it. His purpose was served, and the fact that they brought you back was great.

Clayton Landey:
They knew… They had written a three-episode arc.

David Read:
Yep.

Clayton Landey:
“The Siege” was a three-episode arc. So, going in — and that’s why I’m in the room with all these series regulars, because they know off the bat — And here’s another difference between the business then and now. I’m in Atlanta now where we have geographic discrimination. A role can get offered as a guest star in Los Angeles, and they don’t find the right person, and they can save money, so they come here and they offer it as a co-star without the appropriate billing and money, and…

David Read:
Because they’ll take it.

Clayton Landey:
… they’ll do the same thing to what is considered local people on a recurring basis. They’ll bring you in to audition for a co-star, and then next week they’ll ask you if you can come back. And in the day, for this, it was, “We know we want him for two out of the three episodes. It’s a recurring role.” And that’s why everybody in the room was a regular.

David Read:
I see. So, it brings them in?

Clayton Landey:
It’s right off the bat, “We know we want him for an arc. We want top talent.” If I may say so. It’s… No, it’s… How’d I get outta frame? There I am. I know where the frame is.

David Read:
Yes, sir. They wanted top… they wanted someone who would make an impression.

Clayton Landey: (39:05)
I can say that now, but as I said, I’m a guy looking for his next job. Right now I’ve got… I’m juggling three different possibilities for a theater role, but that’s where I am. I’m an actor looking for the next job. Now having done that — Yes, I’ve recurred on 10 different shows. I did have a series regular. I did do all that. So, now I can say, “OK, think of me in those terms.” But I certainly didn’t think of myself in those terms at the time. “I’m a guy looking for a gig. That’s the gig I want. So, in order to get it, I’ve gotta do the homework. I’ve got to at home figure out who the guy is, what he wants, why he wants it, who he’s gonna be with, and what occurs when he’s in a relationship with those people.” Fortunately, this was a good script. It’s on the page. Most of that, I don’t have to figure out what to do. I have to figure out why I’m doing it. That’s it. But it’s there. It’s all there. “Why? He’s gotta save the universe. The Wraith are coming. You gotta stop the Wraith. Joe’s the leader, but now I’m coming in and taking over. Am I attracted to Torri? I’m the boss, but…”

David Read:
A man is a man.

Clayton Landey:
“… a man is a man.”

David Read:
And a girl is a girl.

Clayton Landey:
And if you can add that, then there’s another flavor. And that’s the joy of doing what we do, finding the flavor.

David Read:
So, it’s very interesting because my first question here was Raj Luthra — this was before we got into that — “Were there any plans to have Colonel Everett and Dr. Weir be a thing? And when Stargate returned –” That’s a separate part. I’ll get to that in a second. So, he picked up on it. It was right there for him. I wasn’t seeing that. I was seeing the guy that was going to come in and… Colonel Jack O’Neill, Richard Dean Anderson, ordered a Wraith exterminator and here he is. Did I characterize the character appropriately, or correctly?

Clayton Landey:
I think so.

David Read:
Who is this guy to you? Who is he?

Clayton Landey:
No, I think you put your finger right on it. Absolutely.

David Read:
Does he have a wife? Does he… Maybe he doesn’t have a wife, considering how she’s the–

Clayton Landey:
No, he doesn’t. He doesn’t.

David Read:
He’s a lone wolf or–

Clayton Landey:
And frankly, selfishly, self-servingly, I hoped that there would be a connection because I wanted to come back to this show. This was a show I wanted to be around. I wanted to be… Every single person, I was like, “Please give me another opportunity to work with these people. I want to be here with them because these people are fun and they get it. They understand what they’re doing and they understand the joy in it and they’re having fun with it.” I remember the first morning in the makeup trailer, and this is pre-IMDb, we’re going back —

David Read:
It was around, but it was very young.

Clayton Landey:
Barely. Come on, this was over 20 years ago. And I sit down in the makeup trailer and Joe leans forward and he goes, “Dukes of Hazzard?” And I’m, “My God, how do you even know that? Why do you know that? And how dare you bring that up?” But that’s the kind of fun.

David Read:
The work resonates across time.

Clayton Landey:
That’s the kind of people you want to work with.

David Read:
That’s right.

Clayton Landey:
A, he cared enough to find out who he’s working with. “Is this someone I can trust? Is this someone who actually knows his job?” And B, “I’m gonna fuck with him.”

David Read:
Absolutely. There are some meaty scenes here. I love the exchange between you and Rachel Luttrell, who’s in Atlanta, by the way.

Clayton Landey:
Is she?

David Read:
There’s a natural susp[icion] — Her ex-husband was big in the Marvel scene for stunts, Lloyd Baton.

Clayton Landey:
I didn’t know that. She’s terrific.

David Read:
She’s fantastic and her and James Bamford had quite the fight in front of you there, the stunt coordinator. But there is already a built-in animosity between Everett and Sheppard, because Robert Patrick’s Colonel Sumner was a friend.

Clayton Landey:
I’ve seen the show.

David Read:
The Stargate program is very tight…

Clayton Landey:
I gotta tell you —

David Read:
… everyone knows everybody.

Clayton Landey:
I remember…

David Read:
… except Sheppard’s the outsider.

Clayton Landey:
I remember two moments, and what I should have done is gone back and looked at these again, because… I should have.

David Read:
I sent you the link, but it’s OK. It sounds like you watched. I wouldn’t have known.

Clayton Landey:
But that’s the thing. My wife and I, as you know, just got back from vacation.

David Read:
Yes, sir.

Clayton Landey:
And this was a really well-needed two-week break.

David Read:
Good.

Clayton Landey:
And she’s prepping, she’s a master swimmer, she’s gonna swim in the Nationals next week in Seattle.

David Read:
Good work.

Clayton Landey:
So, my focus has been on her. And then I came back immediately to go into readings for two plays that I hope to do.

David Read:
You called me, or emailed me, immediately. I didn’t have to chase you at all, so thank you, sir.

Clayton Landey:
David, again, I am so overwhelmingly happy and grateful to be included in this world and to have the opportunity to talk about these people and this show. It was such an overwhelmingly positive experience. And look, there are people I don’t wanna talk about. There are people — And I won’t. I don’t wanna put the negativity into the planet, into the world.

David Read:
Life’s too short.

Clayton Landey:
Give me the opportunity to people I’m grateful to, to people who I admire absolutely every single day of the week. This is that opportunity. There are moments on that show that I remember like I just walked off the set into this room. Doing that scene with Joe was one of ’em. That guy could go toe-to-toe with you, and you were there for the moment. That guy has got it. He’s got the stuff, and it is a total joy to work with a professional actor. Every single time I get that opportunity, I’m deeply grateful. And frankly, Torri? The same thing. That woman is a powerhouse. That woman is a talent and as lovely a human being as you could hope to work with.

David Read:
She’s wonderful.

Clayton Landey:
Absolutely, completely, total joy to spend every moment with her, and that’s why I’m trying to put this little inflection in there, “Bring me back to work with her some more. I dig the shit outta this.”

David Read:
“There’s something here, guys. I don’t know if you’re picking up what I’m putting down.”

Clayton Landey:
No. There’s something here, but I get it if I’m 200 years old now, OK?

David Read:
No, you don’t look it. You didn’t look a day under 112 when you rolled out. He is coming through the Stargate with already a built-in animosity, having had all the mission reports dumped on him. He’s read it all. Or he’s talked with people who have read it all and digested it for him.

Clayton Landey:
“I came to do the job.”

David Read:
The job, and his friend…

Clayton Landey:
“I am a professional.”

David Read:
… was killed in the process.

Clayton Landey:
I’m sorry?

David Read:
And his friend was killed in the process…

Clayton Landey:
Yes.

David Read:
…and that major over there with the wacky hair is to blame for it directly…

Clayton Landey:
It’s his fault.

David Read:
… because he stood there and he didn’t act the way he expected him to act. So, there’s this built-in animosity right there which comes full circle the next episode and Clayton, I barely recognized ya. And the Parkinson’s or whatever you wanna call it that you were adding with it, dude — oh, man — that makeup, that makeup team does a really great job, ’cause you are half of that particular equation.

Clayton Landey:
That makeup team… above and beyond, and here you go again. John and Martin and the rest of the executive team put together a family of artists. It was a joy to work with these people, and all you have to do is sit down, let them do what they do, and show up inside of what they created. That’s it. That’s three quarter… They say that casting is 90% of the job. I’ll tell you what, when you put that together with a team like that, again, all I had to do was show up inside of it. That was it. It’s on the page and they surround you and create around you everything that you need to be, simply to be. And those jobs are so unbelievably rare in this business. It’s… You hope for two things. You hope for that level of professionalism, and you would love to work again with the people you love.

David Read:
Wow. Just a few episodes before, Torri had sat for makeup effects artist Todd Masters, and did her own… Man, she was technically 10,000 years old literally. But I always like to ask this question: when you looked at yourself in the mirror, did you see a family member staring back at you?

Clayton Landey:
No. It’s interesting. Now, I have done a couple things and I go, “Oh my god, I see my dad.” My dad had this. And when I do that, I see my dad here. Then, when I did that, I didn’t see a family member, but I saw immediately who I needed to be. It removed a great weight from me as a performer, that it took away my needing to perform, and gave me the opportunity to simply be. And nobody pays dollar number one to see an actor act. We pay to see the great ones be an imaginary person under given circumstances. And when I looked in the mirror and saw what they had created, I was done. I didn’t have to do anything. All I had to do is lay down and say the words. They had created–

David Read:
Just respond to that.

Clayton Landey:
Exactly right. Then all I had to do was be there with the other human being. That was it. That made my job so unbelievably easy.

David Read:
I felt so bad for this guy who came through and sucked the air out of the room, not in an unnecessary way. They had very little time. And in his last scene, there is nothing left. Those things took everything from him. And there is no question of how much of a problem soldier suicide is. But that guy would have been a candidate, because everything that made him, from what we saw, who he was, someone who took care of others, and was… He is a razor. He is like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men. He’s the guy you call on when you have to have the dirty work done. You have those guys in your toolbox for a reason. And it was all ripped away. And you have to wonder what happened next. It’s a sad arc.

Clayton Landey:
I certainly did. It did leave me wanting to know more. Again, first of all, thank you, because if you received that, there’s no higher compliment for me as an actor. But again, secondly, that’s the level of creativity from that team, that they could put that on the page and then assemble a team to tell the story in a way that you received that. It’s as great a compliment that you could possibly give them.

David Read:
It was a great nod for the character that he is, with whatever is left in his strength, man enough to acknowledge to Sheppard — who was about to be promoted to a colonel in just a few days — that he was wrong. And having gone through the experience himself of being transformed and being eaten alive, essentially…

Clayton Landey:
Literally.

David Read:
I think he said, “I wish you had been there for me too.” Damn.

Clayton Landey:
How’s that for writing?

David Read:
It’s good stuff.

Clayton Landey:
How’s that for writing?

David Read:
Good stuff. The show will be around for a couple years, I think.

Clayton Landey:
There’s a good chance.

David Read:
It’s got a shot. Gosh.

Clayton Landey:
The hardest thing that we have to do as performers is cover our asses when the writing sucks.

David Read:
A good actor can elevate a bad script a little bit, but not a whole lot.

Clayton Landey:
Listen, there are people — Gena Rowlands comes to mind immediately as someone — I would pay money to watch her read the phone book. I remember watching the first scene in the first picture Nick Cassavetes directed, and she’s throwing out newspapers and I’m going, “My God.” I would–

David Read:
Unhook the Stars.

Clayton Landey:
I would — Excuse me?

David Read:
Unhook the Stars. I love the movie.

Clayton Landey:
I would watch that movie–

David Read:
“This is the last time. This is the last time. I’m not doing my daughter’s job again.”

Clayton Landey:
Yes.

David Read:
She’s brilliant. I love Gena Rowlands.

Clayton Landey:
Thank you that you have that. Yes. Absolutely. A small… I was very fortunate to do the last John Cassavetes script that was produced, that Nick directed. And I got to know Gena, and I did get to know John a little bit.

David Read:
She has some great lines in that movie.

Clayton Landey:
Those people are so rare. You mentioned Nick and Sue… Gena. Anything. But for the rest of us, if it ain’t on a page, our job is really hard. And I paid a lot of bills doing a lot of crap. You can get away with it. But when you get a piece of writing like this, it’s almost like you don’t have to work. All you have to do is show up. That’s the greatest… And then you get to work with a Joe, you get to work with a Torri, you get to work with a David, and you get to… Or a Rachel. You share a moment where it’s just human beings being human in a moment, because everything else is created and taken care of for us so we can be those human beings. That’s as good as it gets for us. That’s as good as it gets.

David Read:
Clayton, I’m having a tremendous time with you here. But we are at four minutes till the top of the hour. How long do I have you for?

Clayton Landey:
I’m having a great time, David. You ask a question, I’ll keep talking.

David Read:
You give me a five-minute warning, I’m gonna keep going. But it…

Clayton Landey:
I’m good. Keep going.

David Read:
I’ve got five more minutes, give me that flag.

Clayton Landey:
I’ll give you-

David Read:
I will keep going, ’cause we’ve got a pretty darn big audience now.

Clayton Landey:
Wow. Add some questions.

David Read:
Absolutely. I’m gonna get to them in a minute, but I’m more important. That was a joke. One of the… This was a huge sequence. The nighttime attack over the city by the darts. Stargate had never done really anything like this. They didn’t like to shoot at night on location because they were a family show with a family cast and crew that went home and nine-to-five as much as they could. But the advantage of this was…

Clayton Landey:
Absolutely.

David Read:
… it was in studio.

Clayton Landey:
And unbelievably efficient because of the love they had for their family. Again, this is what I keep saying this whole hour, is that they cared so much that it was a family and, we’re gonna make sure that the families receive that love and that care. So, yes, it’s exactly right. And they were as close to the clock as anybody I’ve ever worked with.

David Read:
They, and they ran it right down. The story that I was told, I think it was Rob Fournier, the armorer on the episode, is that because they weren’t on location, and I don’t know where they would have shot it in the Greater Vancouver area to pull that off, the sound of the gunfire, even from the studio for this sequence, was so loud that they had to send people out days in advance to warn the businesses and the homes in the surrounding area, “It’s gonna get loud.” You were on the set for that, or you may not have been. You may have, because you were with Weir up on the main balcony–

Clayton Landey:
And that was interior.

David Read:
Right. What–

Clayton Landey:
That was interior on set in the studio.

David Read:
Were you there for when they were doing the firing? Did you see? Did you witness any of it? Did you feel any of that?

Clayton Landey:
We did have some. It doesn’t stand out to me as an issue.

David Read:
The railguns were just so loud.

Clayton Landey:
I’ve been on sets where I’ve had to be cottoned. I’ve had to fire. I’ve shot, and been around gunfire, cannon fire, all of that. I love when you’re out there with the gun and the crew is behind the protective shield. “Excuse me, a moment. You’re behind the shield, I’m out here where it’s happening?”

David Read:
That’s why they pay you the big bucks, Clayton.

Clayton Landey:
I have worked long enough to have a pension, but I’m still working.

David Read:
Hey, there you go.

Clayton Landey:
This does not stand out to me as having been a problem. And yet I love… Again, it goes to who these people are, that they warned everybody in the surrounding area. That’s the kind of care. It matters to them that it’s family and it’s neighbors and we treat people with care. And that is the outlier in our business. That is not the norm.

David Read:
Isn’t that a shame? Especially from Rob’s recollection, the decibel level was going to be so unusually loud, even for a studio, that they did that extra rather than just as a matter of course doing it on the regular. But it was such an amazing sequence and episode. And I love that his first reaction, and it was probably scripted, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you told me that it wasn’t, that it was something that you did, was that Ford takes out the dart, but he can’t stop the blast from hitting them, and he shields Weir with his own body. It’s a blink of a character moment, but it says, “Yep, the chips are down. She’s a civilian, I’m taking care of her. It’s my life or hers.” Great beat.

Clayton Landey:
Those actors are that good.

David Read:
For sure.

Clayton Landey:
Simply.

David Read:
Anything else that you take away from that experience? I connected the dots with it. I didn’t go in sequence like I usually do.

Clayton Landey:
No. I remember, again, being really well taken care of by the stunties. They always made sure… That sequence… The firing sequence, in the shooting, they wanted to make sure that we were safe and comfortable so that it… Because, two reasons. And the people on that side of the stick that really know their job know, A, they have to protect us. That’s why they are there.

David Read:
Things happen. We’ve seen it.

Clayton Landey:
We have. And certainly here we’ve seen it. But B, and as importantly for the production is, if we feel safe and comfortable, then we can give the best of what we have to give. Again, an incredibly caring, thoughtful set, crew, family, that made it so easy for us to do our job, and to want to do the job to the best of our ability. That’s what I take away from working on that show.

David Read:
Clayton, you wanna know what the bitch of it is? Turns out the Wraith can give back life, too. We find out two seasons later; they can make you young again.

Clayton Landey:
That’s down the–

David Read:
And the only thing I was thinking is, “I know who to call in the Milky Way galaxy to get him back over here. Let’s take one of the bastards, put him in the jail cell. There’s some payback to be had at gunpoint.” Jeez. ‘Cause Joe as Sheppard goes through the exact same thing. And we’ve watched Sumner go through it, we’ve watched Everett go through it, and it happens to Sheppard. And at the end of the episode, we find out, the big reveal is, the Wraith can give life as well as take it away. It’s one of those beautiful, unexpected episodes. And all I was thinking about was, “What about Colonel Everett? Is someone gonna reach out to the old folks home in Colorado Springs?” Not fair.

Clayton Landey:
That’s funny. I love that.

David Read:
Lockwatcher said — Or William Arons, “Was there… So, there was no discussion about bringing Colonel Everett back, brought back to health by receiving the gift of life by a Wraith who was either compliant or coerced to?” That was my…

Clayton Landey:
No, I wish. No, that never happened . I’d… In a heartbeat. Blink twice and I’m there.

David Read:
Absolutely. Lockwatcher wants to know, “How does working the daily grind of a daytime soap, like Gregory Lacoste in Days of our Lives, compare with the rhythm of working on a show like Stargate?” Differences in dealing with sets, scheduling, craft services.

Clayton Landey:
It’s night and day. It’s a completely… I don’t wanna say it’s a different set of tools, but it’s tools you need to have in your box if you’re gonna make a living. The daily grind of doing soap — and I was fortunate I didn’t have great weight to carry every day, but I was there every day — it’s a completely different way of working. It’s this bizarre mix of theater and TV. The people who have the weight — ’cause you’re shooting 120 pages a day–

David Read:
When you say weight, do you mean dialogue mostly?

Clayton Landey:
Mostly, because the weight of the dialogue creates the weight of the experience and the creativity that you have to fill it with. So, what you see in daytime is a mix of tricks and tools. Whereas in a nighttime drama or an independent film, if you’re doing a major film, you could be doing half a page a day, you could be doing one, two pages a day, maybe. You do an indie, you’re doing six to nine pages a day. Nine pages a day is typical for a nighttime thing. For daytime, you’re doing 120 pages a day. That’s a shit ton of words.

David Read:
That’s a lot of words.

Clayton Landey:
And you do it five times.

David Read:
Wow. Is that typical then?

Clayton Landey:
When we were doing soap opera in the day, that was the way we did it.

David Read:
For coverage?

Clayton Landey:
It was five — You show up in your pajamas and you do the whole show. They get a general idea of blocking. And then you come back, and now you see where the cameras are and you rehearse it that way. And the third time you’ve got props, you’ve learned more of your words. For the heavy people, there’s the teleprompter, and I’m old enough to have done it through cue cards.

David Read:
So, if you have to – ‘Cause you have to get through the material.

Clayton Landey:
No, don’t laugh, that’s —

David Read:
I know actors on Stargate who had to be given cue cards, but I will never say their names…

Clayton Landey:
That’s another story.

David Read:
… until the day I die.

Clayton Landey:
That’s another story. If you’re doing six pages, eight pages, nine pages a day, you don’t know your words…

David Read:
You gotta get through it.

Clayton Landey:
… the word might apply [sic].

David Read:
You gotta get through the material.

Clayton Landey:
You do. You gotta know it the night before so you can be there and present and live it. I get it when you’ve got 100… You got 20 pages you gotta do today, you’re not gonna learn them overnight. And so that’s gonna be there, and you learn the tricks of the trade and how you can say them as if you’re saying them even though you’re reading them, and I’m looking at you, but my… So, we’re gonna put the card behind your head. That kind of a thing. And we’re gonna shoot the dress rehearsal to get a sense of it, and then we’re gonna shoot and we’re home for dinner. You do a show like this beautiful show, Stargate Atlantis…

David Read:
Which doesn’t air only once and then it’s gone until the soap channel comes along.

Clayton Landey:
You have the opportunity… I have the script the week before I show up. So, by the time I get to Canada, I know my words. Now, there’s gonna be changes every day. There are gonna be rewrites every day, and they’re gonna get delivered to your room, and you’re gonna learn those words before you show up. Now, I have been on shows where the stars learn their words while we’re learning the camera angles and we’re rehearsing once or twice before we shoot. Not a lot of fun for the guest stars, because we have to show up ready to make it…

David Read:
Ready to go.

Clayton Landey:
… Ready to move the boat.

David Read:
You’re not promised a paycheck to the end of the season.

Clayton Landey:
But like I said, me and Jay were up at night working with each other.

David Read:
That’s Jay, man.

Clayton Landey:
He was there for Stargate and I was there for Atlantis, and we’re working with each other to help each other out, and the next day we can show up on a set ready to rock and roll in case — which was not necessary in this case — in case the stars are not ready to rock and roll. On this show, they were always ready to rock and roll. And that was one of the joys of being there.

David Read:
And at a time of the year when they’re arguably ready to be done with it for a few months. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were burnt out. They’d done 20 frigging episodes.

Clayton Landey:
You could think that way but again, these were true professionals. Caring professionals who know their job and were grateful to be there and get the job done the right way.

David Read:
Absolutely. Kathie–

Clayton Landey:
Credit to them.

David Read:
Kathiescall wants to know, “Was it difficult ever to maintain the military head honcho all-business type given the nature of this cast?” One of the things that Torri said early in production of Season Eight , that SG-1 was all fart jokes and chill and Atlantis had something to prove. Wondering if that was your experience by the end of those respective seasons?

Clayton Landey:
Not my experience. But that’s what they had to live through and live up to. I come onto a fully functioning, working show. It exists. That world exists. All I have to do, as he does, he comes through the Gate into the world. That was me…

David Read:
You are relieved.

Clayton Landey:
That was me, Clayton Landey, coming to Canada, coming through the door of the studio into the world. The world exists when I show up. All I have to do is fit into that world. No, it was not difficult at all. It was on the page. I show up as that guy because that world exists and I have no other choice. Between takes, I have lovely human beings to enjoy a moment with, and then I have to step back into the world. The world exists.

David Read:
So, it’s right there. If the work is good…

Clayton Landey:
That’s it.

David Read:
… you pull it out of the page, and you do what you do naturally.

Clayton Landey:
It’s on the page and the world exists, and as we’ve talked about this whole time, that creative team creates everything you need to be present. It was frankly… I don’t wanna use the word easy, because you do what you do and if it was easy, somebody else could do it. And it was…

David Read:
But it was natural to you?

Clayton Landey:
It was natural to me in that time and place and in that moment because they made it easy for me to be.

David Read:
Clayton, you’ve hinted at this around the edges. What about when it’s not? What about when it’s — You’ve got… We’re talking about 400 credits and I’m also curious, how frequently out of all of those would you say it’s not easy? Would you say, “I don’t necessarily respect this material, but I have a family to feed. And work is work, and there are no small parts, only small actors,” and all the mantras that they tell us. When the material isn’t there, do you go into it sometimes hoping that you can derive something out of it because you are, this is your profession and this is what you do and there are spaces for these types of stories? And–

Clayton Landey:
That’s the job.

David Read:
That’s the job?

Clayton Landey:
That’s the job. My job is to show up and say those words in a way that you believe them. That’s the job. Now I don’t have to love the script. There are things that I won’t do. And I say no. And I tell this to every one of my students. No is as important as yes. You’ve gotta say every yes that you can say because it’s the yeses that move you forward, but it’s the nos that protect your ass. And you’ve got to know when to say no. It starts off by having to have a good bullshit meter. I gotta protect myself. Those people are not here for my benefit. They’re trying to use me for their benefit.

David Read:
It’s a heavy bullshit industry.

Clayton Landey:
When you say no right off the bat…

David Read:
That’s right.

Clayton Landey:
… there are commercials that I said no to ’cause no. And there is material that I’ve said no to because it was demeaning to someone. And I did not want to take part in that.

David Read:
Dignity’s important.

Clayton Landey:
Yeah. Ethics, dignity, personal integrity. It’s my heart and my soul. And there’s any number of things that you could look up and find, and it would not have been my first choice. Time to pay the rent.

David Read:
But you have to sleep at night.

Clayton Landey:
But there’s that.

David Read:
As well as keep the heater on.

Clayton Landey:
There’s exactly that.

David Read:
Garwin–

Clayton Landey:
I gotta keep the door open and the electricity on…

David Read:
That’s right.

Clayton Landey:
… but there’s shit that I will not do, period.

David Read:
It’s interesting, Garwin Sanford, who was in SG-1 and Atlantis both, he said, as an actor, there’s gonna be things that I don’t like to do all the time. But he is a jack of all trades. He does these gothic clay mask sculptures. And in that, he has specifically set aside that portion of his craft where he does not compromise at all.

Clayton Landey:
As I said.

David Read:
At all. Because that’s his world. But you know what? Sometimes he’s gotta play a character he’s not in love with ’cause he’s got a family to feed.

Clayton Landey:
And listen, I’ve been around a long time ’cause I’m not a one-trick pony. I’ve been an actor, a director, a writer, a dancer, a singer, my first eight years I was a mime, a juggler.

David Read:
A teacher.

Clayton Landey:
I’m a teacher. And I know when to say yes and I know when to say no. When it’s not there on the page, that’s when we earn our check. I can say things in a certain… I’ve often been the guy who does the exposition.

David Read:
That’s a muscle.

Clayton Landey:
It is a muscle. That’s exactly right. And it’s a muscle that not everybody has, so I’ve gotten hired to use that muscle. But I’ve also made sure… Pretty much every year I’ve worked, I’ve found a project that I believed in, or I’ve been fortunate enough to be a part. Look, the first feature film I did, I’m a union guy since I’m 17 years old. Union has put the roof over my head and the food on my table for my father and my father’s father. Different unions, but union. First feature I did was Norma Rae. Union. There’s Sally holding up union. I was so proud to be a part of that. First TV movie I did was King, the Martin Luther King story. I was so proud to be a part of that. And Norma Rae, by the way, is in the Library of Congress National Film Registry. I’ve been in the right place a couple of times. So, I’ve always tried to do something, at least one project a year that says something that I believe in.

David Read:
How often do you instruct?

Clayton Landey:
I’m taking a summer break, but September through June, I teach a scene study for the working actor at the Alliance Theater, the Tony-winning theater here in Atlanta, regional theater. That is for advanced students. Those are people who are working actors. They have to audition to get in that class.

David Read:
Do you allow audits? I’m in Nashville.

Clayton Landey:
No.

David Read:
I would love to come over.

Clayton Landey:
I never allow audits.

David Read:
I wanted to ask.

Clayton Landey:
Never allow audits. That’s why people audition for me. We’re in the room together. You don’t get the opportunity to see what I do, but I audition people. So, it’s basically a half hour coaching session. You see if I work well for you, and I see if you work well for the class. We get to play together and see where we are. And then I have another class that I co-teach with Elianna Marianas, who teaches a physical approach called Viewpoints. And it’s a combination of Viewpoints with the internal work that I do, and that’s called Get the Fuck Outta Your Head ’cause we found we were saying that more than anything else. “Just get the fuck outta your head, will ya?” I was fortunate. My BA is in drama. I was in class at University of Houston, with both Quaid, with Brent Spiner, with Cindy Pickett. These were the kids I came up with. And then I spent a year when I came… When I went to LA… And again, ABC brought me from Atlanta to LA. I spent a year with Darrell Hickman, and then I was fortunate to spend the summer in master classes with Stella Adler…

David Read:
I like Stella Adler.

Clayton Landey:
… who was with a member of the group theater, created modern American acting. Her students were Brando, De Niro. These are the people that studied with her. And then by invitation, I studied in the only class that Brando offered. In my teaching, we combined the internal work I learned with these masters with the external work of Viewpoints. So, if you’re taking our Get Out of Your Head class, which now has four levels, you’re getting the full approach, vocal, physical, and internal.

David Read:
And it’s such a… I can understand why you wouldn’t want outside observers, because it’s such an intimate process. Yes, when the material is ready to present, people are as raw and vulnerable as they’re ever going to be with the material that they know. But until then, they have to be free and comfortable to express themselves and find themselves until they’ve got it right.

Clayton Landey:
Absolutely. Both classes, the scene study class and Get Out of Your Head, which it’s called Get Out of Your Head at the Alliance because they market to families. So, we don’t say Get The Fuck Out of Your Head.

David Read:
We all know what it really means.

Clayton Landey:
But if you’re in a room it’s really get the fuck out of your head. Both spaces, it’s the only place I’ve ever been that I would consider a safe space. It needs to be a place where you can be open and vulnerable, and we work on process, not performance. So, no outside observers in either class. The Get Out of Your Head, we even give them the opportunity, and ’cause there’s four levels now, that if they want to invite… Because we do a bonus night. We do… There’s a play called Constellations, it’s a two-hander, that deals with the possibility of the multiverse. So, if these two people… If this had happened, it would’ve gone this way. If this had happened, it would’ve gone that way. And you see the same two people play all the different stages and all the different possibilities. So we get the entire class to learn every word of the play so anyone can step in at any time for any role. This is the advanced, advanced. This is the fourth level. And after the class is over, we have a bonus night where we bring everyone in and we do the entire show, start to finish. And anybody can jump in either role at any time.

David Read:
Constellations.

Clayton Landey:
And that’s how good these people are, that they can do either one. And the most astounding is, I jump in and I start saying your words, and you have to take the other role mid-scene. We give them the opportunity to bring people in. But in most cases, they say no, because we have established this space of complete vulnerability that they want to keep for them.

David Read:
Nick Payne.

Clayton Landey:
Nick Payne. Tremendous writer.

David Read
Discovering a character really is just as much, if not more, about discovering yourself. And I think that it’s really a great thing to pursue if you are wanting to get out of your own damn head by literally stepping out of yourself and into someone else. Let’s set myself aside, but use the building blocks of me to create something new…

Clayton Landey:
So, many of–

David Read:
… and be vulnerable with another human being.

Clayton Landey:
Yes. So, many of us start out in the business thinking, “I get to be all these other people,” for so many of us, “so I don’t have to be me.” And what you find through doing the work is that if I don’t figure out who I am, then I don’t know what the material is I have to use to be them. And that’s why you’ll find so many of us committed to doing many number of different versions of a therapy to find out who we are. And you see that over and over again.

David Read:
And I would think the other part of it, if I were a performer, would be when I would see a performance and be like, “Damn is that insincere. That’s inse[nscere]. You could have made a meal out of that. And you went with that?” Or maybe it’s crappy editors.

Clayton Landey:
And no, that’s the difference between acting and being. What I said earlier on, I don’t pay a dollar to see someone act. I pay anything to see them be. If you can be that imaginary person under those imaginary events in those circumstances. If you can allow yourself to be that human being under the given set of circumstances, you are being, “Now you’ve got me…” I just watched two different shows last night. And one’s a new series and one’s a second season of a series. And the first one, I couldn’t watch it for five minutes. It was like, “Mike, who the fuck are you kidding? You’re acting, and everybody in this frame is acting. And they didn’t even give you the opportunity…” It was just, “This is bad. I can’t watch it.”

David Read:
“I’m gonna go wash the dishes. I’ll just listen to it.”

Clayton Landey:
And then I turn on this other show, which is, the second show is Lazarus. And it is a great sci-fi premise, the time jump. And I believed absolutely every moment of every sequence. You got me. I’m watching you experience that for the first time and now you’re realizing it for the 101st time. Wow, you got me. I can’t wait for the next episode.

David Read:
George & Archie.

Clayton Landey:
George & Archie, yes, wonderful. It was wonderful.

David Read:
Two seasons, The Lazarus Project, this is how I find my shows, “I’ll take that, one of those and I’ll take that.”

Clayton Landey:
Give it a try. It’s worth giving it a try because I believed them.

David Read:
Has the Zoom casting process destroyed a generation in your mind? Get a lot of reports of actors coming on here saying, “They hired them over Zoom, they didn’t bring them in to communicate with anyone. They put them in front of 100 people for the first time. They say ‘Action’ and the actor freezes. And we’re stuck.”

Clayton Landey:
Anecdotal, but any number of times I’ve heard the story of exactly that. The guy gets the job because he sent the 32nd attempt to say the same words.

David Read:
That he polished.

Clayton Landey:
And they gave him a different set of words and he didn’t know what to do with them. That is not a real actor. And listen, I made my bones in the day and, like I said about Ray and those guys, we went in the room, and the beauty of that is you’re alive. And if you’re a theater actor, if you’ve come from the stage, you know what it feels like to be in front of people. And you walk into the room and you can feel the energy in the room, and you know when it’s going with you, you know when it’s going against you, and you ride the wave. And when you’re done you can say, “But that’s my idea, what do you think?” And you’ve shown them two things. A, you have a brain, you know that there are other choices that can be made. And B, if they give you a choice and you go with it, you show them you got some talent. You can play the game, “I can go on the spot. Tell me what else you want, I’ll give you that.” And so many times… One of the classes that we teach, one week, level two in our Get Out of Your Head is Garbage Direction, where I play the director who doesn’t know how to talk to you in the first fucking place. “What I need here is more yellow. Do you know what I mean when I say yellow? Can you make it more yellow for me?” I’ve heard that. I’ve heard that on a set.

David Read:
He’s probably a synesthete.

Clayton Landey:
“More yellow. You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.” That wasn’t the picture you had in your mind and you don’t know how to ask me to go to that place. And nine times out of ten, ’cause as much as it is with the writing, what do you do when it’s not there? Same thing with the directing. There are fewer directors than one would hope for who know what their job is. So, many of them know the size of the lens, but they don’t know how to talk to the actor.

David Read:
Technical, like Lucas: faster, more intense.

Clayton Landey:
Help me tell it in a different way. Yes, help me tell the story. If you can say that — I’m sorry I don’t remember her name — I did an episode of Queen of the South. And she said, “Do you mind if I ask you to do it this way?” “Do I mind? I’m thrilled that you know to ask me to do it that way. My job is to help you tell the story the way you want to tell it. Tell me whatever you want, let’s go.”

David Read:
Was it Alice Braga?

Clayton Landey:
Yes, wonderful.

David Read:
Googled it.

Clayton Landey:
What a joy to work with. She knew the story she wanted to tell, and she knew she wanted a different shade. And she knew how to ask for that shade. I’ll give you that. But if you’re telling me you need more yellow, I’ll give you something.

David Read:
You know what?

Clayton Landey:
I will always give you something.

David Read:
Clayton, I grew up with a guy who… He and his twin brother had synesthesia and, when you talk to him, he hears texture and color in your voice. Mine was smooth red. His twin brother draws, and he hears music. It is a thing. They’re not really hearing or seeing; they’re perceiving these things.

Clayton Landey:
When this director said that, it wasn’t a thing, he didn’t know how to ask.

David Read:
One of Nick’s anecdotes was when he was conducting an orchestra, he literally said to them, “I need more blue.” But he had been working with him for weeks and they interpreted–

Clayton Landey:
So, they made an excuse.

David Read:
Exactly. And I do believe that your guy was bullshitting, but it’s like–

Clayton Landey:
Absolutely. And too many times, way too many times, they don’t know how to ask. So, they ask in a way that makes no fucking sense to an actor, whatsoever. And if you can give them anything different, they think they created that.

David Read:
And let ’em.

Clayton Landey:
And they’re so proud of themselves… and now they love you. And that’s what I teach these people. If you can say, “OK, I’ll try this,” if you can jump on the moment into something different, they think they’re brilliant and now they love you. And that’s harder, frankly, than bringing something that isn’t on the page. Because you can always make, as the actor, “OK, the choice I’m gonna make here is even though it says I wanna kill you, I’m gonna make it what I’d really like to do with you? Would I like to do that with you.” And if you bring something different, they go, “Whoa, I didn’t even know I had done that. Wow.” But when the director doesn’t know how to ask for it, you’ve gotta give them a spin that makes sense. And if you can do that, they think they know what they’re talking about.

David Read:
But does it make you feel disingenuous for delivering it?

Clayton Landey:
No.

David Read:
It’s like, “Well, that was a piece of crap. I sure hope he doesn’t pick that one in the editing room.”

Clayton Landey:
There’s two different actors. There’s the one who says that, and there’s the one who says, “Well, my job is to make it better. And I’m gonna earn my money today.” And the other guy, again, I’m not gonna mention who it was. I remember one of my very first auditions in LA, a commercial audition, and I walked into the room, and they were casting two roles, and I was probably 30 years old, so… And I looked younger. So, I was the young guy looking for the young guy role, and I walked in and it was the gallery of great Warner Brothers faces. Mike Mazurki, and these guys with their nose and their voices and their faces, and they were all the great faces that were behind the stars in all the great Warner Brothers films.

David Read:
Sitting there in the room with you? Not in pictures?

Clayton Landey:
Sitting. These were all my heroes.

David Read:
Not on frames?

Clayton Landey:
These were all my heroes. I grew up watching all those movies as a kid on TV when TV didn’t have content. We had all the great movies from the ’40s and the ’50s. That’s what we were watching. And all this gallery of faces. And then there was one guy in the back of the room who was a B-movie Western star and was the supporting character in the A movies. And he was pissing and moaning about having to audition for these guys for a fucking commercial, “And I can’t believe they don’t just…” And I looked at Mike Mazurki, my God, who was so happy to be there and have this opportunity and have a conversation with a guy like me who loved these guys. And I said, “That’s who I wanna be. I will never be that guy.” And that’s the guy who complains about the director. And now he’s a bitter old man. And I will never be that guy. I’m gonna be the guy who’s grateful to be asked to be in a room.

David Read:
And so much of it is — some things aren’t — but so much of it is within your control, how you choose to view your circumstances.

Clayton Landey:
You can’t choose what happens to you. But you must choose what your response to it is. If you’re choosing… If you think it’s about what happens to you, you’re a victim. And if you choose the response, now you have a shot at life, now you have a shot to be who you are.

David Read:
‘Cause you can change the trajectory after that. You have a shot at it.

Clayton Landey:
That’s your moment. It’s your moment to make that choice. My wife always says, “Negative side, positive side. Every moment you decide.”

David Read:
I love that. My mantra on the show is “Make good ripples.” You’re gonna make them one way or another. It’s the start, it’s the Stargate.

Clayton Landey:
I love that.

David Read:
They’re ripples.

Clayton Landey:
That’s a thing I use in teaching too. You throw the pebble into the pond, you don’t know what shores the ripples are gonna hit, so you throw the best pebble you can throw.

David Read:
We are communicating constantly…

Clayton Landey:
A positive pebble.

David Read:
… and people are reading us and taking stuff in and ignoring us and doing everything else, but make good ripples. Positive, negative, you decide.

Clayton Landey:
Make good ripples, I love that.

David Read:
Marsha Middleton, “1st & Ten was one of the first half-hour comedy shows for cable TV.” Marsha’s a dear friend.

Clayton Landey:
Scripted half-hour comedy on HBO. They had done an improv comedy, but it was the first scripted half-hour comedy on HBO.

David Read:
She says, “I enjoyed that fun show about the world of professional football. Do you have any memories you can share about working on that first season with folk like the legendary quarterback Fran Tarkenton, perhaps?”

Clayton Landey:
I never got to work with Fran Tarkenton. I have some great memories, and I got a couple I don’t know if I should be saying. I like to say I worked with…

David Read:
It’s positive, negative, you decide.

Clayton Landey:
… the original Delta Burke. Delta…

David Read:
Delta? My God, Delta.

Clayton Landey:
Delta was as gorgeous inside as she was out.

David Read:
I’ve heard good things. I was a Designing Women fan growing up.

Clayton Landey:
Wonderful human being. Wonderful. A treat for me — And I’ll tell a story that he told me, so I think I can repeat it. Michael V. Gazzo from The Godfather. Slits his wrists in the dark– I got to work with him and went, “My God, this is the guy who wrote Hatful of Rain. Holy shit this guy’s brilliant, brilliant writer, brilliant actor.” And at that particular time, was proud of his sobriety. And told a story. He said, “Now, this is how much of a drunk I was. My brother and I went to Westwood to have a drink, and I woke up in Rome, and I don’t know how I got to Rome.”

David Read:
Rome Rome?

Clayton Landey:
Rome Rome Rome. Not Rome, Georgia. Rome, Italy.

David Read:
By plane.

Clayton Landey:
What? He didn’t remember the plane ride. What?

David Read:
My God.

Clayton Landey:
What?

David Read:
What?

Clayton Landey:
I don’t think I’ve gone back… Was it last year or two years ago, someone told me they were a huge fan of the show, and I went back and I watched a couple episodes, and I went, “My God, they let me get away with that?” It was like, this is, this is not the highlight of my life as an actor when I see the performance in that show, frankly. But it fit what they were looking for. And I do remember… it was actually… I had a Triumph 750 at the time, and it was during the, I believe it was the Olympics, the LA Olympics. And I’m on my way to the Olympics, and I got my then wife on the back, who is a wonderful, wonderful human being and a brilliant actor, and we have a wonderful son as a result. That was my second . And I get a call from my agent, “They want you to come read for this new show. It’s a pilot.” And, “Nah, I’m going to the Olympics.” “Just stop in.” And I literally, on the motorcycle, stopped, went in, read the material, got back on the bike, and went to the Olympics, and when I got home, I had a series.

David Read:
Isn’t it amazing, the ones that you don’t waste your cognitive energy on, that you spit it out, and they’re getting me from that? I had flies in my teeth.

Clayton Landey:
As opposed to going through five rounds with Ray Abruzzo. I got the show. I won’t tell a couple of stories about the producers. We ended up in disagreement, and I don’t know, much of my problem is their problem. They didn’t do further seasons. Because somebody didn’t live up to their end of the bargain, and it wasn’t me. But as a result, I got to work with Ruta Lee, I got to work with Michael V. Gazzo, Bobby Miranda. Delta Burke, Tiny Lister. God bless, what a sweet guy that guy was. Remember Tiny Lister?

David Read:
Yes, I recognize him.

Clayton Landey:
A very famous sci-fi film. Help me out.

David Read:
The Fifth Element.

Clayton Landey:
Yes, The Fifth Element.

David Read:
It’s one of my top five. What a face.

Clayton Landey:
And Tiny, he was an ex-ballplayer. They gave him a shot. He was terrific. I remember my nieces came to visit us on the set. They were younger then, and he got down to do a bench press, and he put one on each side of the barbells and lifted the bells with the two girls on either side. Tiny. He was the first guy I saw who could make his pecs dance. He could sing Happy Birthday with his pecs. And one of the sweetest guys on the planet.

David Read:
And what an actor. “I have 27 more meetings after this one, professor.” God, that’s good.

Clayton Landey:
Absolutely terrific.

David Read:
There’s something to be said about standing in a room and it’s not getting stars in your eyes. It’s witnessing something magical happen right in front of you, and a lot of it goes under the hood because you do it too. And it’s, “Now that’s a performance. Now that was cool to watch. And maybe I have a thing or two that I can put in my back pocket and try out the next time I’m up on stage.” This energy feeds more energy.

Clayton Landey:
I’ll tell you, sitting opposite Gazzo, it was, “This guy is doing stuff I never even thought about doing. This guy, I’m out here, this big, and this guy is just right here. Can I learn to do that? And just be there like him?” My God. There are people like that; just being in their presence, you’re learning.

David Read:
Patrick McKenna, he came on once and he said, “I’m a French horn. I can try those other things, but I know that I’m a French horn, but I can see the other way too. I can see being an explorer. Let’s try. I may fall on my face, but at least I’ll have tried it.”

Clayton Landey:
Exactly right.

David Read:
What is it that you think about, while we’re talking about Stargate, about after all these years, what do you think that it provided us as viewers that it’s still providing today? And in some cases more relevant than ever. You got to see the alchemy in person at its peak in 2004. What did you glean from it?

Clayton Landey:
I think of it, and I don’t mean to be pretentious, although sometimes I really am.

David Read:
Hey, pretent [sic] away.

Clayton Landey:
The kernel of what was great about Stargate is the same kernel that was great about the original Star Trek. That these people are excellent storytellers, framing human stories, human needs, human goals, human desires in the framework of science fiction. As was often said about Star Trek, Star Trek was a Western in outer space.

David Read:
Wagon Train to the Stars.

Clayton Landey:
Exactly right. In that sense, Stargate has the same achievement, in that they’re telling us about who we are as human beings but putting it in this framework. That’s what I took away from that.

David Read:
The greatest science fiction can play all the genres in the same show. It can be a comedy, it can be a drama; it can be a courtroom; it can be horror, and Stargate has done them all.

Clayton Landey:
And that’s humanity.

David Read:
That’s humanity. It is the tapestry of us. And I think that that’s why it continues to be so evergreen, and they stuck the landing so many times that when we see it now with all of our advancements in technology and our political circumstances evolve, culturally we evolve, you keep getting more out of it that may not have been there by design to begin with. But they were tapping into something that was true. At the end of the day, it still resonates.

Clayton Landey:
Yes, absolutely. And that’s why it resonates.

David Read:
I heard someone mention it at one point that truth… “What is truth?” Truth is that which can be replicated independently across multiple different systems. That’s what Stargate is grabbing onto. We receive it with a message that is different when we’re kids, and it is different when we’re… We still appreciate what we felt when we were little in watching a piece of entertainment, but we get something more out of it as adults or at a different point in our lives. And it’s magic. And it’s immortal. And I’m sure there’s a little bit of immortality that you feel about that as well having been a part of it. Some things are great, some things not so good, some things I could put on a bonfire. But at the end of the day, that’s my life. That’s what I did. Clayton, this has been amazing . Thank you.

Clayton Landey:
A real treat for me, and at the end of the day, and I’m closer to my end than you are, I have these experiences. I’ve been fortunate enough to be in these places and have done these things with these people. And it will exist, and it’ll be on the screen, and people can still take from it what they will long after I’m gone. That’s rather astounding to me.

David Read:
And a blessing.

Clayton Landey:
Again, deeply grateful for having had the opportunity.

David Read:
Sir, you’ve been wonderful. I appreciate you taking so much time and being so insightful.

Clayton Landey:
David, this has been a total treat for me, a real pleasure. Thank you for the invitation. And thank you for the opportunity to have the conversation. Thank you.

David Read:
Absolutely, sir. I’m gonna wrap up the show on this end, and all the best, sir.

Clayton Landey:
Thank you so much.

David Read:
Thank you.

Clayton Landey:
You as well.

David Read:
I got a couple of questions. Clayton Landey, Colonel Dillon Everett from Stargate Atlantis. What a treat. Couple of questions for me. I don’t get them very often, so hey, questions for me. Whitecastle: “From all the Stargate series stars you’ve interviewed, don’t you have a sensation that they would like to be part of a new one? A new Stargate series? I would love that and I bet they would too.” Many, I’m sure Clayton among them, would love to come back in some shape or form. But the more that we move forward in time, I really have a feeling that MGM is gonna have something different planned for it when they finally launch. Brad Wright submitted his treatment for a fourth Stargate show and they passed. And that was … talk about a stake to the heart. But we’ll see. And I would love to see some of them come back in new ways. You look at Richard Hatch with the new Battlestar Galactica. Tom Zarek, man-oh-man. Marsha: “Fun question. What has prompted you to grow your beard and mustache out?” You mean shave them, Marsha? ‘Cause I just got rid of them all. I’m no longer fat. So, that helps. You’re watching Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I really appreciate you tuning in. If you enjoy the show and you wanna see more content like this on YouTube, please click the Like button. It does help with the show and will continue to help us grow our audience. Please also consider sharing the video with a Stargate friend. And if you wanna get notified about future episodes, click Subscribe. Clips from this livestream will be released over the course of the next few weeks on both the Dial the Gate and GateWorld.net YouTube channels. My tremendous thanks to my producing team, Antony, Kevin, Sommer, and my moderators Antony, Jeremy, Kevin, Lockwatcher, Marsha, Raj, and Jakub. And big thanks over to Frederick Marcoux at ConceptsWeb who keeps DialtheGate.com up to date. I’m going on a bit of a holiday myself, so there will be shows here and there. Something really special I’ve got planned for all y’all. If you’re gamers, you’ll be really excited. So, keep an eye open. Keep them both open. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in, and I will see you on the other side.