We are thrilled to welcome Brian Markinson to explore his role as the Enkaran Lotan from SG-1’s “Scorched Earth” and spend time discussing his career!

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Dial the Gate, the Stargate oral history podcast; Oral History Project is actually what I meant. My name is David Read. I appreciate you being here with me for this episode. Brian Markinson, who played Lotan in Stargate SG-1’s “Scorched Earth”, the first script released by Joseph Mallozzi and Paul Mullie, who went on to produce a huge chunk of the franchises here. And out of the hundreds of guest stars that have appeared in Stargate, this one’s in my top five or 10, easily. And Brian…

Brian Markinson:
Wow.

David Read:
…I have been looking forward to one day sitting down and talking with you for a long time. It means a lot to have you here, sir. I really appreciate it.

Brian Markinson:
David. Thank you so much for inviting me. What a pleasure. And thank you for the kind words.

David Read:
Absolutely. And I meant every bit of it. And yes, Antony, that’s fine. I would start typing to my folks right now behind the scenes, but the screen has been taking over, and I haven’t fixed that yet. So, Antony, I appreciate you back there. I want to start off with something that I saw a few years ago. Robert C. Cooper created a miniseries that was very close to him. It was about the tainted blood scandal in the ’80s in Canada. And you played a very key part of that series in the form of Dr. Roger Perrault. And I would like you to speak on him a little bit in adapting this character. But what was that specific experience like as an actor, being aware of this? I assume you were aware of this incident. What was this like exploring this real-life person and these series of events? If we could begin there.

Brian Markinson:
Thanks. First off, I didn’t know. I’m a dual citizen. So, I’m an American who, pretty much the year that I shot “Scorched Earth”, moved up here with my Canadian wife and decided to raise our kids in a better place than Los Angeles. And so I came up here, but I had known Mr. Moore, who I adore. My friend Michael Shanks had a big part to do in this project as well. It was a no-brainer to take the guy on. I felt honored that Rob invited me to come and play in something that is so incredibly close to him. It was… I have to say it was easy. He was heavy. I think he was also an amalgam of a number of different folks who dragged their feet during this time and who passed the buck during this time. So, it was easy for me. Unspeakable is… We’re all very proud of it, and playing that guy, it’s all on the page. And for me, I’ve played a lot of real guys. And you never ever want to bring it to an imitation. For me, The Bible is what the writer writes, and in this case, it was a really, really beautiful Bible.

David Read:
I have some comments from Robert. He and I have corresponded for a number of years now through this show, and I asked him about the performance, and he said, quote, “When I was writing the scripts, I literally had one actor in mind for Perreault, and that was Brian. He was awesome. I honestly don’t remember ever having notes from his performance. So many of the compliments I got about the show included the final scene of him looking in the mirror.” And I just went and rewatched it because I didn’t remember it specifically. It’s a heavy performance. Like you said, heavy is a very appropriate word here. Where do you draw the line in terms of… Like you said, “It’s on the page. The documents are here. This is where it’s going to be.” Do you google the character, the individual at all? What else do you consume beyond that? Or is it… where is the delineation for the research for you?

Brian Markinson:
I think it’s fun to immerse oneself in whatever research. There were certainly photographs, the odd sound bite of the guy. But it depends. You’ve got… Timothée Chalamet had a much broader canvas to work with when he was playing Dylan, and Jeremy playing Springsteen right now. So, you don’t want to pull away from what’s happening on the screen dramatically by trying to play it. So, nobody knew who Roger Perrault was, or the majority of people don’t really know. So, in this case, it was my job to play what was on the page there. And certainly, that last tableau with him, just that moment of…

David Read:
He’s shaving in the mirror and he cuts his face.

Brian Markinson:
And he cuts himself in that moment of looking at the blood and looking at himself in… And that question of, “Did I screw up?” I play a lot of heavies, and I have in my time, and I think it’s my job. I don’t like arch. I don’t like snidely whiplash, twisting the mustache. And so, if you are in a place where you can challenge an audience to empathize for even a half a second with the character, because none of this stuff happens outside of humanity. David Milch. I played a guy in NYPD Blue years ago, a kind of a famous arc. A guy who repeatedly molested and then ended up killing his own kid. And Milch kept saying to me, “You know, just remember, none of this stuff is outside the realm of humanity,” And it’s easy to call somebody a monster or label somebody, but you look for the humanity in this stuff.

David Read:
It’s not to excuse anything, but it’s to try to grasp at it. And I… You’d be surprised the number of people, Brian, who have sat down across from me over Zoom, who are like, “Well, villains are always the hero of their own story.” I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I… You look at the Columbine boys and the journals that they wrote, and what they intended to do, and what they knew would happen to them as a consequence. They knew that what they were doing was evil and wrong, and they did it anyway. But they had this animalistic urge inside of them that… You can’t control the impulse, but you can control your behavior. And they chose not to control their behavior. But you still have to sympathize with people who – you don’t have to, you can – have obviously become that for some kind of a reason. There is a human underneath that, as uncomfortable as it is to acknowledge that.

Brian Markinson:
I think that —

David Read:
Not to forgive them, but to acknowledge, “Yes, we both bleed.” Pardon the pun.

Brian Markinson:
Exactly. And I don’t think any of us are born evil per se. I mean, I think that we’re… That we react in our… We’re created by circumstance, by trauma, by whatever that stuff is. And who knows? We can’t get inside… You know? Then there’s psychopathy, and that’s a whole other thing. But nothing outside the… I never judge a character, and I never… I read and read and read. And every time I read a script, ideas and images come. And it’s… The beautiful thing is, actors are instruments, writers are the players in a lot of ways. And we bring our own story, our own trauma, our own sense of humor to this thing. And where that meets, and you get out of the way of it, then fun stuff can happen.

David Read:
Tell me about some of your fun stuff. I was looking over your resume, and all the things that I’ve seen you in personally. Is there a performance where you have achieved something that has remained with you since? Or maybe more than one. Is there something that you carry with you as an artist?

Brian Markinson:
Well, I did —

David Read:
Or someone?

Brian Markinson:
I’ve been very, very blessed in terms of working with some incredible people, directors, actors, writers, producers, over my career that spanned… I started in the theater in New York, but then ended up… The last 30 plus years, I’ve been making my living doing this. I’ve really been blessed. But I did… And I can… There’s lots of things, but there’s one. A year after… So, in Alberta, which is the province one over from us there was the murder of four RCMP members, officers, in a town called Mayerthorpe. And Henry Czerny and myself and a director named Ken Geraghty and a writer named Andrew Reggett wrote this… he wrote this incredible script called Mayerthorpe, which I think now is called Menace. And I played, speaking of these guys, I played a real guy named James Roscoe, who was on a crash course with the RCMP for many, many years and ended up taking the life of these four young officers. And we did it a year after it happened.

David Read:
Wow, that’s fresh.

Brian Markinson:
I don’t know. It was really fresh. They didn’t let us. We shot it in Calgary, which is about three hours south of where this stuff happened. But this… I was a big part of that film. And again, it’s very, very sensitive there. And I actually got to meet the parents of some of these fallen officers, and they wanted to come to set. They wanted to meet me, and the director and the producer said… I’m like, “Are you sure?” Because, as you just said, it was incredibly fresh. And yes, they insisted, and one of the moms walked up towards me, and as she was walking towards me, she started to fall apart and said, “You’re not him. You’re not him.” And I said, “I’m not him.”

David Read:
She said —

Brian Markinson:
“I’m not…” It was insane. I gave her a hug. I got to meet the twin brother of one of the fallen members.

David Read:
Oh my God!

Brian Markinson:
Dude, I know. It was insane. Every once in a while, something happens that seems… resonates a little bit larger than… Because the thing that’s kept me sane is that we’re just making a TV show. We’re just making a movie. None of this stuff, in the grand scheme of things, is all that important, and if you can remember that, if you can show up with gratitude on a film set and play, then there’s no acting out and there’s no ill behavior. Because honestly, we’re just making a show. But every now and then, you’re reminded of the bigger world and what it meant for her, in a weird way, to process, to be able to look, not the guy in the face, but the guy playing the guy.
And, I mean, it was incredible. So that one comes… and I got to work with Pacino. I got to spend a lot of time with him. And I’ve worked with Mike Nichols a bunch, and Woody Allen, and Sean Penn, and on and on and on. So, I’m in those. I can tell you that all of those things are little blessings. And also that David Milch thing on NYPD Blue, that kinda changed my career. We were nominated for a whole bunch of Emmy awards, and I got to share in one. It was dedicated to me and the woman who played my wife. So those things happen along the career, you know? A career is these little baby steps, and every now and then, a bigger step forward. But I’m very proud of being a journeyman.

David Read:
How do you keep up with the rigorous rhythm of a show like NYPD Blue? I mean, one after the other. That type of a series must just be absolutely exhausting. You have to find yourself a space in your head to be all right with the velocity through which you have to move through the material. And we’re not just talking about casual entertainment. These are specific things that you want to get right. Because there are people watching who do this for a living.

Brian Markinson:
That’s right, and they–

David Read:
You’re not in the Delta Quadrant firing phasers at Vidiians.

Brian Markinson:
It’s true.

David Read:
I mean, you were, but not there.

Brian Markinson:
I was. I was a Vidiian.

David Read:
I know. I thought we were gonna get to it.

Brian Markinson:
So, the NYPD Blue stuff was… It was at a time when Milch… It was a very personal story for David Milch. I had gone in a number of times and met with him and Bochco and all those guys, and they all knew me. And every time I was his second choice. “We really like Brian, but…” And then this role came up, and it was just one role, and this whole episode was Milch’s answer to the JonBenét Ramsey parents, which is full circle ’cause I just did that. But the JonBenét Ramsey… Yeah, the parents… He read this article in Vanity Fair, and he wrote this article about these parents who came in. “The cops know. They kinda did it.” That was his answer to them. And it was at a time when David was just writing furiously, and we weren’t even getting full scripts, and he was writing us eight-page scenes. Me and Jimmy Smits, I had a confession scene, or talking about being molested myself as a kid. And David would just pour this stuff out, and you had to consume it as quickly as it was there. The big scene at the end of the second episode, ’cause we ended up doing actually two and a half episodes. I got it the night before, and it was a two-page monologue that made very little sense to me until David explained it. So, that kind of stuff is what — That’s an experience that is, I mean, arguably one of the greatest writers who ever did television. And the opportunity to be able to be there and bring one of his guys to life was really something.

David Read:
And to speak the words of someone whose brain you admire, that’s gotta be just wild.

Brian Markinson:
They’re writers. Writers are my gods. I’ve never seen an actor that does something that I don’t understand or I don’t feel like I can do. But sitting down in front of a computer or typewriter and creating a world out of a blank page, to me, is magic.

David Read:
They’re pulling from something somewhere.

Brian Markinson:
Somewhere.

David Read:
I think you might have more of a connection to it than you think, though, because when you interpret a character, when you interpret a role, as I’ve seen, you’re pulling from something. We were talking earlier about how we don’t all just come from nothing. There is a history to the way that we behave the way that we do, which is interesting because Lotan came from a database and was a blank slate. He was a completely blank slate. And what I loved about the performance, Brian – I just rewatched it again today – was that, given to a different actor, this performance would have sucked. ‘Cause he’s just… You can portray him as just a couple of levels up from a void. But there is an innocence to him that is not loud, not obnoxious, not two-year-old toddler screaming and crying. I think part of it is from the species that he’s from. They possess certain values, and he’s there as kind of a mediator. But the way that you played it so subtly, just a little bit of curiosity, and a little bit of humor, and a couple of other ingredients that were thrown in there, it’s, the performance is all in your face, you know? And the softness of your voice. Tell me about… David’s gonna shut up now, so you can tell me about —

Brian Markinson:
No, no, I’m listening. I’m listening.

David Read:
Tell me about…

Brian Markinson:
Go, go, go.

David Read:
Tell me about creating Lotan.

Brian Markinson:
Thank you for sending me…

David Read:
I love this character.

Brian Markinson:
Thank you for sending the episode. And I have to say it was 25 years ago. And I was laughing because a number of my fr[iends] — Martin, having directed it — I’ve worked with Shanks a number of times. I’ve now worked with Amanda as a director and as an actor a bunch of times. She’s a very, very dear friend. I adore her. Incredible talent. Alessandro…

David Read:
Juliani, yes.

Brian Markinson:
…Juliani. No, I have to say, I have to be honest, when you sent this to me, I started watching it again, and I was like, “I don’t remember filming any of this stuff.” I swear to you. And I’ll tell you why. What I remember most about the episode was how much I hated the costume. I used to laugh at it.

David Read:
Really?

Brian Markinson:
You know what I used to call it? I called it my Gloria Swanson.

David Read:
You do look like you’re wearing a bed comforter.

Brian Markinson:
And also, we laughed about the fact that here is this sentient being who is created, and male pattern baldness obviously still was never taken care of by that time.

David Read:
It’s a typical Enkaran model. The ship is cold. If he had, as he’d been down to the planet and he goes inside that tent, he really should go, “Uh, can I borrow something? So please.”

Brian Markinson:
But watching it again, I have to say, I was quite impressed and quite moved by… I think playing something that is sentient, something that doesn’t have a huge history, that there is a little bit of curiosity, a little bit of uncertainty, not coming from a place of history. As I recall, Martin and I talked about it. I know that he didn’t want to hit any of that stuff too hard because the danger is you wanna find that balance between something that is made from a machine or computer-generated and something…

David Read:
Literally.

Brian Markinson:
…that has the… Literally. And something that has, as you said, that curiosity. So, in watching it, I was… And I don’t watch a ton of my stuff because it takes… We’re all dysmorphic. We never see ourselves the way the world sees us. So, of course, the first 10 times you see it, it’s like, “Oh, I sound, mm.” Even after, if you just listen to your own voice on an answering machine back in the day, then you go, “Oh my God.” You can imagine seeing yourself in —

David Read:
“That’s me?”

Brian Markinson:
Exactly. Because we don’t, we just don’t see ourselves that way. But now, having had all this time, 25 years since we did that episode, I thought it was effective, and I thought the script was very good, and I thought it toed the line on a lot of things that could have gone overly sentimental, and I thought that we found that tone that works. I was happy with it, looking at it again.

David Read:
You’ve got a genuine morality play with this story. You have the personification of the trolley problem in the Enkarans and the Gadmeer. You’ve got… The whole thing needs to be played with a level of sensitivity because we are talking about thousands of lives on one side and potentially billions of unborn freeze-dried aliens on the other — who have gone to an immense amount of trouble to restore themselves to what they once were. And so he plays that. Lotan recognizes that in terms of the sensitivity of this, and I think there’s a softness to that. It’s, “Please inform the Enkarans that they have to go.” You know? “Do I like this? No. Heck, I’m one of them for the time being that I’m in the form that I’m in.” But you’re right. It could be overly sentimental, and I don’t think that that episode would have been done the way it was then if it were done today. In fact…

Brian Markinson:
Probably not.

David Read:
Did you know the original plot was to have the Gadmeer be destroyed?

Brian Markinson:
No, I didn’t.

David Read:
Did you?

Brian Markinson:
No. Wow.

David Read:
The original “Scorched Earth”, the only way that I can think of it is that they somehow convinced him because in order to get to that ship, they would have had to go through him. But in the original script, the Gadmeer never return. Lotan, or they, sacrifice themselves for the Enkarans.

Brian Markinson:
Wow.

David Read:
And I think, as a modern audience member, I think that would have been far more interesting, whereas — And certainly, had the episode been made four, five, six seasons later, that’s what they would have done because they made choices like that later. They went there.

Brian Markinson:
It was a sweet episode with a happy ending, and we don’t have a tend[ency]… I think we’re a little bit more cynical these days. And I think we want… We like watching car crashes. Hopefully, we’ll swing back the other direction, but I agree with you 100%.

David Read:
There is a lot going on here in terms of the character dynamics with one another. Do you remember anything about that cast? And do you remember being explained as to what he’s doing when he’s docked on his power module with all the blue things circling him? What do you think is going on there? I’m assuming he’s docked and he’s charging, but … he’s Enkaran, but what is he do… I guess he’s probably just talking to the ship.

Brian Markinson:
Communicating with the ship, is what — But again, all that stuff happens after the fact, all of these geniuses that worked on that show. I did the pilot for Battlestar: Blood and Chrome.

David Read:
Blood and Chrome.

Brian Markinson:
And we literally worked in a world of… it was just a green screen. And we had no idea. They would explain to us, but this is the beautiful thing about what we do. It’s all a lie.

David Read:
But you have to find the truth in it. You do.

Brian Markinson:
Exactly. But I think if you embrace the lie, then there’s no limit. The only limit is your imagination. I’m a firm believer that we’re all born artists. We’re children of the best actors. You take a lollipop away from a child, and they’re Meryl Streep in Sophie’s Choice. You know what I mean? You give it back, and they’re like red buttons, or you know what I mean? I’m a big believer in that: that sense of play, that sense of wonder, and that we’re awakening. You’re waking a little bit, saying, “Come with me on this trip, and this is the language we’re gonna speak.” And this is what’s so beautiful about science fiction fans. And I’m a huge fan of science fiction writers. And it is that sense of wonder and possibility. We can use a lot more of that these days, I think, that sense of play.

David Read:
We really need to get over ourselves. We’re here for a smidge and that’s it. I remember watching Wes Anderson’s Grand Budapest and levitating with, “Wow,” and laughing my ass off. And then go and watch The Arrival, Jeremy Renner, and having my mind unlocked in terms of all of my preconceived notions about time and our movement through it. And it’s so rare for me, even as much of a movie and TV buff as I am, to be completely teleported away. But when they happen, you are reduced to a childlike wonderment. It’s like, “I have time traveled to five years old again.” And…

Brian Markinson:
That’s the magic of it.

David Read:
…an artist has invited me to think another way. Or maybe to think ways that I couldn’t before all my phonemes were installed in this English software that I speak and think. It’s wild what a good creative mind can do to grab an audience – the right people who are receptive – and we just go elsewhere. We just leave for a couple of hours. It’s a magical experience.

Brian Markinson:
It’s a magical experience. I agree with you, I think Wes Anderson is one of those guys. And that’s also the joy of going — I hope we all go back to the movie theaters at some point because there is something about… There’s something about the lights going down and this communal time traveling thing. Yes, it’s a very personal relationship we have to these things, but there is still something that we feed off of being a part of a collective audience.

David Read:
With total strangers, yep.

Brian Markinson:
With total strangers.

David Read:
You’re all on a journey together.

Brian Markinson:
And you become this entity together. Do you know what I mean? That’s the magic of what it is that we do.

David Read:
Do you know Tom McBeath?

Brian Markinson:
I do. He’s a very dear friend of mine. I adore him.

David Read:
He is of mine as well. I went and saw him this past spring up in Vancouver in A Doll’s House Part Two and —

Brian Markinson:
I saw him do it.

David Read:
You saw it too?

Brian Markinson:
I did, I did see it.

David Read:
And the… I haven’t been a part of a live performance since COVID, and I can’t think of one where it was that intimate and that present. I mean, he’s 25 feet from the furthest audience member and everyone was spread right to the back.

Brian Markinson:
Yes, at The Pacific Theater.

David Read:
You’re there with him.

Brian Markinson:
It’s a beautiful play too.

David Read:
Beautiful.

Brian Markinson:
It’s a beautiful play.

David Read:
And he just… I think, as much as anything else, especially as we move into more of the AI sphere where we have a hard time saying, “Could I reach out and touch that? Is that real?” live performance is gonna become more vogue. I hope. I really, sincerely hope because it’s so —

Brian Markinson:
I think so. I still do it. I try to do one a year. I did a production of the Lehman Trilogy, which is this incredible play, three hours, three actors, that was done on Broadway a couple of years ago. I’m doing another play in the… a year from now, and I feel it’s essential. And Vancouver is… We’re a little provincial up here and there’s not as much theater as there is in New York or Toronto. But I recommend to everybody out there, if you haven’t done it, go… If you live in, or near a city, most likely there’s a LORT house or a regional theater there. Go and try it. Try it because I do think you’re right. I think there will be a renaissance. Because that’s one thing they’re not gonna be able to do. You’re not gonna have a bunch of holograms up on stage playing.

David Read:
In Japan they love it, but they tried the same thing a few years ago…

Brian Markinson:
They do.

David Read:
…over here with Michael Jackson and a couple of others and the audience was like —

Brian Markinson:
One and done.

David Read:
We didn’t receive it the same way.

Brian Markinson:
No, we didn’t get —

David Read:
It’s as simple as that.

Brian Markinson:
No, it’s true.

David Read:
But there is a certain amount of, “Are you gonna come with me on this journey?” I remember watching Avenue Q and you have real-life performers standing next to people who are dressed in black performing the puppets and I turned off a switch in my brain and said to myself, “The people who are wearing the black leotards aren’t there.” And I…

Brian Markinson:
That’s the magic.

David Read:
…and I just let the Muppets take over.

Brian Markinson:
It’s beautiful because that’s what I mean by… Once as an audience member you go, “OK, so we have an agreement here. This… I’m gonna go with you.” And then one… Then you don’t have to worry about it.

David Read:
That’s it. That’s exactly it.

Brian Markinson:
It’s the best and that’s the magic because then what you’re doing as an audience is meeting you and actually finishing the story. Because otherwise, without an audience there is no… There’s nothing. If a tree falls in the woods, it… The audience is essential.

David Read:
You’re not just acting on stage. You are interacting.

Brian Markinson:
Exactly. That’s it.

David Read:
Our feedback adjusts the show to make it that much more dynamic and interesting every time you do it.

Brian Markinson:
Correct.

David Read:
Otherwise you couldn’t do it night after night. It’d be like, “Oh my God, here I go again with this, these highs and these lows and these highs.” Maybe you could if… I mean, depending on the role. But it’s — What Tom always… At least in terms of what he was saying, he’s keying in on. He’s like, “OK, what’s the… Who are the people that I’m dealing with here and how am I going to adjust what I did before with what I want to do next with the people in the room?”

Brian Markinson:
There’s no —

David Read:
It’s all just a science experiment.

Brian Markinson:
No, they’re snowflakes. There is no recreating anything.

David Read:
It’s one and done.

Brian Markinson:
You bring… You have a lousy day, you’re gonna bring that onto the stage with you and that’s gonna inform that. It’s what’s so beautiful about what it is we do. It’s why I still like doing it. And I teach now too. I’ve been teaching for years but I teach. It’s the thing I love almost as much, certainly as much as acting…

David Read:
I understand.

Brian Markinson:
…is being able to teach. It’s the best.

David Read:
There is nothing like — The folks who are watching, they’re going, “Oh my God, here he goes on the teaching thing again.” There is nothing like imparting knowledge to someone whom you see potential in, and seeing the light flash over their eyes when they get it. And then they go off in another direction and it’s like, “Well, I wasn’t thinking of that, but that’s certainly interesting.” Or anything like that. Students are the… willing students, there’s nothing like it, and there’s nothing more fulfilling. It’s almost like being a parent and saying, “OK, now it’s your turn. Now you go.”

Brian Markinson:
This is… It’s a fairly self-centered pursuit being an actor. It just is. And I don’t mean in a bad way, but it is. So, to be in service is, for me, the best. I learned so much from creating space for young actors. I wish I had somebody. And I did. I had a teacher. If you have one in your lifetime, you’re fortunate.

David Read:
That’s like a lighthouse in your repertoire of resources.

Brian Markinson:
That is a voice that says, “You’re fantastic. You can do this.” As opposed… As someone who makes the room bigger. It’s easy to make the room small and it’s easy to take away, but to empower is to be in service to that. I take it very seriously and I think it’s a huge responsibility.

David Read:
Absolutely. Especially with people who have trouble… A lot of introverts, who find their way to it, because as they’re accessing this material, and portraying someone else, they’re also discovering more about them. So it’s a journey of self as much, which I think you were talking about, how it’s a very inward-looking thing, is there’s a give and take there that’s amazing. I think it’s why it’s one of the oldest professions in the world that continues to exist as predominantly as it does. Because there’s something there that people are tapping into when they’re delivering lines and when they’re stepping in steps of a path that’s already written out before them, that they’re also exploring the boundaries of their inner selves. And it’s, “Well, what could I be iif I just tried?”

Brian Markinson:
I love it.

David Read:
I’ve got some fan questions for you.

Brian Markinson:
OK.

David Read:
Lockwatcher says, “What was your time like working on Apollo 13?”

Brian Markinson:
Wow.

David Read:
A little bit further back.

Brian Markinson:
Thank you. Thank you for that question. So, I got the opportunity to go in and read for Ron Howard, and I read for the role that his brother ended up getting, which was the —

David Read:
“I’ve lost all three of them.”

Brian Markinson:
That’s right, Ecom, that guy.

David Read:
That’s it.

Brian Markinson:
So, I had a great meeting with him and then I got a phone call saying, “Ron loved you, and you’re in.” And I’m like, “Great.” So I’m like, “What is it?” And they were like, “You’re pad rats.” And I’m like, “Pad rat? OK.” So I went through… We shot… It was great. I’ve worked with Hanks before, I’d worked with Bacon before, and… But what I was doing, again, you talk about being in service to —

David Read:
For sure.

Brian Markinson:
What didn’t make the film is all of us little pad rats and the designer of the ship, the pod and all that. We shot an entire story for these guys where we were watching the launch and all that, that of course didn’t make it. I think one or two little frames of me made it into the thing. So, the experience was great. And to work on something that massive was amazing. And actually, when you’re working on Mad Men, when you step into the ’60s, those film sets, and put on that clothing, you are transported. I felt very much the same way, being… You talk about no acting required. So it was great fun. They were all wonderful. And it was cool to be even a small part of that very cool film.

David Read:
You experienced that crisis. You lived through it. Did you feel teleported back to it at all?

Brian Markinson:
I have to say, I didn’t remember Apollo 13 as much as we all remember 11. I don’t remember. It was weird because I remember watching 11. I was seven, eight years old. I was born in ’60, ’61.

David Read:
Really impressionable.

Brian Markinson:
So, though I remember sitting in the class and the teacher bringing in the TV but it’s weird. I do not remember that story. I don’t know how… It was overshadowed by the success of what 11 was. But again, like Unspeakable and that it’s an amazing opportunity to immerse yourself in a little bit of history when you’re telling that story. It’s enriching and fun to play.

David Read:
I was going to ask about this separately, but Mr. Bernd Backhaus in our audience has asked it himself, and I have not prompted him to phrase it like this. So, I’m very interested in seeing your response, Brian. I hope that he’s kidding, but he may not be. This may be a genuine surprise to him.

Brian Markinson:
All right.

David Read:
Brian, how was it seeing your face taken off and reattached to another performer in Voyager? Did you ever watch the scene with the guy who played the Vidiian wearing it?

Brian Markinson:
Let me tell you, I was the Vidiian. I am one of two actors… Me and Jeffrey Combs are one of two actors who played two characters in an episode. So guess what? That was me. So they set me up as the star ship dude.

David Read:
Security guy.

Brian Markinson:
Yeah. That was the first one, Cathexis. And then when we go to Faces, that was me. And so they did a whole life cast of me, and then grafted my face onto me as the Vidiian, which was like playing Romeo and Juliet in a plastic bag. It was unbelievable. I’ve had prosthetics before. But never… I had teeth. I had contacts like I had in “Scorched Earth”. But it was to act through that and have these love scenes with Roxanne–

David Read:
That’s great.

Brian Markinson:
It was a real challenge and a ton of fun.

David Read:
You were one of the earliest non-regular character arcs of the show. Martha Hackett, I think was probably the first. And then you with Cathexis and this. And when we get to this episode where Durst is taken away and this guy comes in…

Brian Markinson:
Durst.

David Read:
I was like, “Oh, man.” It’s so sick, this scientist has grafted this other guy’s face on. “Now I’m pretty, don’t you think B’Elanna?”

Brian Markinson:
Now I’m pretty. Exactly. It was —

David Read:
And then going back as an older person looking back, it’s Brian on both of those. Just the mind-effery that you’re doing with us as audience members is fantastic. It had to be fantastic to play.

Brian Markinson:
I’m glad that he didn’t…

David Read:
He didn’t know.

Brian Markinson:
He didn’t know. I had an amazing time. And now, subsequent to that, Robbie, who played Paris, is a very good friend. We ride together. He lives in Utah now. But he is an incredible director, and we did a series together. He’s directed me a number of times, and so all of these… I mean, I love all of these… Star Trek and all of that stuff. And I’ll say a little something. All I can say is, I believe that I will be back in that world again, possibly in the near future.

David Read:
Fantastic. It’s just a question of which century.

Brian Markinson:
We all come back… We’ll come back. We’ll come back later when it’s done. Perhaps.

David Read:
I would love to talk with you again about The Craft specifically, digging into it more. But I read this and I was like, “That can’t be real.” No, he bought it. He bought it. Which means that it works.

Brian Markinson:
It’s cool. I wouldn’t have thought that whoever wrote that episode was…

David Read:
That’s right.

Brian Markinson:
…twisted.

David Read:
That’s exactly right, which was another Voyager episode title. And for the record, Jeffrey Combs in DS9 played both Weyoun and Brunt in a specific episode of the show.

Brian Markinson:
That’s right. There you go.

David Read:
So, that’s just how nerdy I am.

Brian Markinson:
Oh my god.

David Read:
Walking encyclopedia. Raj Luthra wants to know, “Out of all the roles that you’ve played in sci-fi, legal dramas, which one stands out to you the most from a pure satisfaction point of view in terms of working through the material? And when Stargate returns, either as the continuation series or movie, would you like to re-enter that universe if it’s a continuation of what came before or something – a reboot – and something totally new?” I know that was a lot to take in.

Brian Markinson:
I would certainly. I love it. I love good science fiction because, as we were talking about it, it taps into that childlike thing in all of us, that thing that allows us to imagine. And there really is no ceiling to that. So the answer is absolutely yes. I like playing science fiction. I think it’s challenging at times because the good stuff is great, and if you can… You always want to find… It always gets crystallized down to what is the scene. Even though there’s all this stuff going on, there’s still a truth to the scene. And that’s what…

David Read:
It’s still about people.

Brian Markinson:
It’s still ultimately about people. But some of the ones that I talked about, NYPD Blue. I did a series called Continuum, the time-traveling series that we did up here, which was a procedural for me. I played the boss cop in it. But I love all that stuff. I’ve also done… I did Angels in America with… opposite Pacino. I’ve done, I don’t know, 400, 500 hours…

David Read:
You’ve been blessed.

Brian Markinson:
…of television. I have been blessed. It’s all good for me. It’s all just play. I would jump at the chance again to get into that world, into the Stargate world. I was so impressed watching Richard and Amanda and Shanks. They really… I was really impressed. I had so much fun in those scenes with Shanks. And he’s so good. He’s so… They’re so good in this, they just buy into it.

David Read:
Yep.

Brian Markinson:
And they’re all so credible, and nobody’s commenting and winking. It’s like they commit to this stuff, and that’s why this series…

David Read:
That’s right.

Brian Markinson:
…did as well as it did. They went in and they took that ride. They believed it.

David Read:
Rick winks a little, but he’s… One of his famous lines from the show, as Jack is, “Oh, come on, Carter. You know me and sci-fi.” But I mean, even in the most dramatic situations, there’s something about Stargate that just allows the humor to come in, and it’s like, “We’re going there.” When Lotan beams the bomb up to the ship, but he doesn’t know it’s a bomb yet, and he’s like, “Hmm.”

Brian Markinson:
“Hmm. What’s this?”

David Read:
“It’s very curious.” And Daniel’s like, “Lotan, we don’t have time for this. Get this thing out of here.”

Brian Markinson:
It’s great.

David Read:
There’s 10 seconds left, and Lotan’s like, “It’s very interesting.” And he’s like, “Launch it into space.” God, that’s funny.

Brian Markinson:
It was pretty funny. And again, that’s one of those moments that you’re talking about, that it could have… you could have leaned way harder…

David Read:
For sure.

Brian Markinson:
…into the comedy. But it was… Shanks is just so bloody good.

David Read:
He’s found that uncanny valley to play in, and it’s the reason that Daniel is my favorite character, ’cause he’s…

Brian Markinson:
He’s fantastic.

David Read:
He’s so damn good.

Brian Markinson:
But he… in everything he does. I did a really cool arc on… What’s the hospital one? [inaudible] The one in —

David Read:
I can’t click ’cause you’ll change the screens.

Brian Markinson:
We won’t. It doesn’t matter.

David Read:
A hospital series.

Brian Markinson:
But I’ve worked with him on… It was the hospital series.

David Read:
Saving Hope.

Brian Markinson:
Saving Hope, of course. Actors are just like… There is nothing… Typecasting is not a thing with us because we’ll go wherever you want us to go. We’ll just buy into whatever that story is. And I think Shanks is one of those guys. He looks like a leading man, but he’s a character guy inside.

David Read:
I think you’re absolutely right. It’s like you’re positioned in front of a door with a lock. And it’s like, “OK, I’ve got a key for this one. But if I don’t, I’ll make one right here on the spot. Just give me a few minutes…”

Brian Markinson:
That’s right.

David Read:
“…with the lock.” And you’re analyzing the content and it’s like, “OK, how am I gonna fit myself into here?” It’s like with Unspeakable, it wasn’t anything like… You were participating in an ensemble. So, you are recognizing that you’re in your lane. That’s why you’re not going all over the place with it, because it wouldn’t be appropriate. But sometimes in those certain instances, like in the Vidiian science lab you weren’t thrown a bone, you were thrown a steak.

Brian Markinson:
No, it’s the truth. And again, my acting teacher back in the day said that the style of the play is dictated by what’s on the page. I always go in telling a director, “How high you want me to jump?” Because I’m on the inside of it, I’m not directing it. I can’t see it.

David Read:
You’re on the corner.

Brian Markinson:
I’m there. There’s a certain amount of trust you have to give that person who actually is standing back. It’s not an actor’s medium ultimately, as you could see. I’m standing there like this and then all of… They fill in all of that magic for me when I’m plugged into the ship.

David Read:
For sure. Can I ask you a maybe a little bit of an uncomfortable question?

Brian Markinson:
Anytime.

David Read:
You’ve done so much of this, so many hundreds of hours of this. What do you do as a performer when you trust someone, a director, a co-star, and they drop the ball, and it’s clear they have no idea what they’re doing? What do you do? What buoy do you cling to? Or do you swim until you can’t swim anymore?

Brian Markinson:
You rely on your fellow performers. ‘Cause ultimately, you’re up there together rowing that boat. But you do… There’s only so much control you have. If you’re fortunate enough to be able to collaborate and have… If I bump against something that’s on the page, I will… I have no problem saying to the writer and the director, “Can we… I’m feeling this.” There’s a number of different… And I’ve worked with directors who have shrunk the room, who make it very difficult. I’ve worked with actors who have shrunk the room, who make it difficult. They’re the exception, they are not the rule. The majority of the people that I work with have been really beautiful and collaborative. And I find… I just don’t take it on. I don’t take it on myself. I’m way past that at 63 years old now. I’m past that taking on somebody else’s stuff. So, I’m there to work and play, and I’ll go where you wanna go. But if you’re gonna close the room down, I’ll try to find as much freedom as I can within that smaller room, honestly.

David Read:
Has it ever challenged you as a performer and opened avenues of opportunity in ways that you didn’t expect because someone has shut you down? It’s like, “Well, I’m gonna go in this direction and see if it works, and thank God it did, and I didn’t expect that too.”

Brian Markinson:
I’m a big believer in, “You meet people where they are.” And you meet an experience where it is. So yes, I agree with you. You have… You can either hang onto those rails with your life or you can just let go and see, and that’s kind of what I teach.

David Read:
OK.

Brian Markinson:
There’s this incredible Rumi poem, and all of your listeners there should go and get it. It’s… that’s a great way to live our life by. It’s called The Guest House. And Rumi was this Persian poet from the, I don’t… 14th century. At any rate, he’s incredible. I don’t want to… It’s a short poem. But it basically says welcome anything that comes, whether it’s a crowd of sorrows that empties your house of its furniture. Just meet everything that comes, because there’s a reason that it’s there. And I try to live my life that way. It’s like, you can’t deny it. You either push back against it in those situations or you say, “Well, this is what it is, and what… How am I reacting to it in the moment and how do we move, move on from it?”

David Read:
These are the ingredients you have.

Brian Markinson:
Exactly.

David Read:
You can’t bake a cake…

Brian Markinson:
Exactly.

David Read:
…without flour, eggs, and water. You could try.

Brian Markinson:
That’s exactly right. And we move from what we think should be to what is. And if you live in the what is, what’s happening in the moment, good things happen. And as you say, those opportunities, doors open up for you that you can take that you… that may surprise you, and may, and may turn the thing into something that you didn’t expect. And I mean, how cool is that?

David Read:
Well, it’s discovering another facet of yourself. What’s the poet’s name again?

Brian Markinson:
Rumi. R-U-M-I. And it’s called The Guest House, and you’re gonna want to… You’re gonna read it?

David Read:
I’m putting it in the, I’m putting it in the show notes after we’re done.

Brian Markinson:
It’s so fantastic.

David Read:
So scroll down below, folks, after you refresh, and you’ll see it. So…

Brian Markinson:
That’s amazing. Everybody… Print it out and put it on your bathroom mirror because it’s a good one.

David Read:
The one that I always had at my desk for years, it’s just a white page with a circle and it says, “Your comfort zone” and there’s a dot out here and underneath it, it says, “Where the magic happens.” And I take that to every office, cubicle space, wherever I have. It’s always running in the back of my head. Dare to be uncomfortable. You don’t know the upper end of your ability.

Brian Markinson:
That’s right. And we… Comfort, it’s overrated.

David Read:
Yes, absolutely.

Brian Markinson:
But if you embrace that… What I like to say to my students is, “Embrace the suck.”

David Read:
Embrace the suck.

Brian Markinson:
Nothing — Growth is not linear.

David Read:
No.

Brian Markinson:
It’s like, discovery, fall on your face, stub your toe, hit a wall, discovery, and it… If you embrace that, come on, man. I mean, it’s just… it’s the best.

David Read:
You’re, you’re looking at someone who has lost nearly 60 pounds in the last five months.

Brian Markinson:
Wow! Congratulations. That’s amazing, dude.

David Read:
Halfway on my journey. So I’m telling ya, when you start off, you go, “Oh God.” You swear at yourself a lot. And then at a certain point, at the third kilometer of that 5K, it’s like, “I’m a badass.” As I’m saying it out of breath. So, it’s true.

Brian Markinson:
Embrace the suck, man.

David Read:
Dare to embrace the suck. I love that.

Brian Markinson:
It’s everything.

David Read:
Thank you, by the way.

Brian Markinson:
It’s everything.

David Read:
One last question before I let you go. Is that all right?

Brian Markinson:
You bet. Of course.

David Read:
Oliver, I’m gonna massage this a little bit to take it where I wanna take it. Can you share a memory of Amanda Tapping? I have heard wonderful things of her as a performer. She was the Welcome Wagon in Stargate. I have heard stellar things of her as a director. Kind, generous…

Brian Markinson:
She is an —

David Read:
…giving. What can you tell me about Amanda as a collaborator?

Brian Markinson:
She’s remarkable. We’ve done play readings together. She’s directed me. She directed me in a heavy, heavy drama. This series I did called The Romeo Section. She is profoundly… She’s the opposite of what we’re talking about when somebody shrinks the room. She is everything — I have never met a human on this Earth who has anything other than the most beautiful things to say about her, because she is all that. She is loving, and giving, and create a space that is very, very easy. It’s easy to succeed in, and it’s easy to fail in. And if somebody… And if it’s OK for you not to be perfect every time then that’s huge. And on top of everything else, she’s smart as a whip.

David Read:
I don’t know where she gets all the energy. And everyone that I’ve talked to… “If she has a bad day, good luck figuring out which one it is.”

Brian Markinson:
But she… there is a time and a place. I mean, we have those people in our lives that we…

David Read:
Of course.

Brian Markinson:
…that we can — And she knows that when she’s out there working and creating, it ain’t about her. See? It is about… She’s a problem solver and she understands that there’s no room to act out. I’ve never seen her do anything other than… I think I’m gonna get her into my class. She keeps on calling me up saying she wants to… She’s terrified, she’s a big chicken so she won’t come in and do it, but she’s also, as you know… You should see her do drama-drama. I want her to do Nora in A Doll’s House Part 2, that play…

David Read:
She would be fantastic. “You haven’t changed a bit.”

Brian Markinson:
Incredible.

David Read:
What a great scene. No, she would be the…

Brian Markinson:
And she’s dynamite.

David Read:
That’s the thing, though. There’s only so much of AT to go around. I can’t believe I just used that abbreviation. Anyway, she’s just — I miss her in front of the camera. But the fact of the matter is, I think she’s found her world.

Brian Markinson:
She has, but I’m telling you…

David Read:
What do you do? There you go.

Brian Markinson:
…I’m gonna get her into that room. Because she keeps on… She and a buddy of hers, Nicole Oliver, they both… who are both… they’re dynamite actors, but they’re afraid. They’re afraid to get in and be vulnerable in that way again. Because it’s a whole different thing to sit back and behind the monitor. But I will…

David Read:
You’ll succeed.

Brian Markinson:
You’re gonna hear… I’m gonna succeed in getting her in, and I’m telling you, she’s gonna fall in love with it again.

David Read:
Yes, she will.

Brian Markinson:
And she will be back in front of the camera before too long. I guarantee you, she’s gonna get a taste of it and go, “Ooh.”

David Read:
I think that you can do both. I think that what you said was true. It sounds like you deliberately make space for one live performance to run a year. That’s what you gotta do.

Brian Markinson:
I have to.

David Read:
At a certain point you look and say, “There are fewer years ahead than there are behind. What do I want to leave behind and what do I want for myself?” And you make it happen.

Brian Markinson:
Absolutely.

David Read:
Speaking of… One small question.

Brian Markinson:
Anytime. I’m not going anywhere.

David Read:
What do you ride? I have a 2014 Yamaha Super Tenere. So, speaking about living in the moment.

Brian Markinson:
It’s a great bike. Right now, I just sold my BMW RT 1200, which is a big touring bike.

David Read:
I had the R80RT. It was older than I was.

Brian Markinson:
I have a Ducati. It’s an 803 Scrambler, and I’ve pulled the cat off of it and put a Termignoni exhaust, and it is the most fun…

David Read:
Do they hear you coming?

Brian Markinson:
…I’ve ever had on a motorcycle. They hear me coming. It sounds like an Italian guy hitting on your girlfriend is what it sounds like. I’m a big rider, man. Listen, you find yourself up this way, we’ll ride.

David Read:
We may have to do that with my 1200. But it’s —

Brian Markinson:
C’mon.

David Read:
My dad calls it two-wheeled therapy and I’ve just started again, because the potholes in Nashville? You can drive a semi through them. So, you gotta be really careful. Brian, this has been my pleasure. Very much so.

Brian Markinson:
David, thank you so much for having me, and thank you to everybody who’s tuned in, and I look forward to the next time.

David Read:
Absolutely. We’re gonna have you back. I’m gonna wrap up the show on this side.

Brian Markinson:
OK. Take care.

David Read:
I appreciate you, sir. Be well.

Brian Markinson:
OK. You too.

David Read:
Brian Markinson, everyone. Lotan in Stargate SG-1. I appreciate you all tuning in. My name is David Read: and you’re watching the Stargate Oral History Project. I have something special to share with you here. Martin Maclean, we’ve had him on the show before, you know him as GateBuilder. He is now true to his name, because he has just released a free downloadable Stargate 3D print. I don’t think I can get this thing bigger, can I? Nope. Of course, everything else gets bigger. This is gatebuilder.tech, the link will be in the description below, and he has created this thing for you to download for free. And not only that, but it has complete schematics and assembly instructions. You rarely find cooks and bakers in the same person, but this guy builds this stuff and also builds the concise instruction manuals for how to assemble it. And it lights up. And yes, I told him that the chevrons are lighting up out of the wrong sequence, so he now has the correct programming sequence, so that’s there. Just look in the description below for the details on where to go and download that thing for yourself and for free. My profound thanks to my moderating team. You guys really pulled me out of the… It was bad earlier, so I’m really thankful that you guys were able to pull it through. Antony, Jeremy, Kevin, Lockwatcher, Marsha, Raj, and Jakub. My producers, thank you. Antony Rawling, Kevin Weaver, and Linda “GateGabber” Furey. And big thanks to Frederick Marcoux over at ConceptsWeb who keeps dialthegate.com up and running. Dialthegate.com holds the complete schedule for everything coming out. A few people are still waiting, still organizing dates to get back to me, and we’ll have more of that information. Just keep it locked in on the website for those details. My thanks once again to Brian for being so generous with his time. My name is David Read, for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in and I will see you on the other side.