Stargate team members have a history of doing Replicators dirty, no matter what galaxy in which they live. We got closer than ever in bringing one of them to our side, as it were, with Niam. John O’Callaghan joins Dial the Gate LIVE to discuss this role along with his broader career!

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Timecodes
0:00 – Splash Screen
0:29 – Opening Credits
0:57 – Welcome
1:07 – Guest Introduction
1:25 – Jason Momoa and Joe Flanigan
2:38 – “Progeny”
3:20 – “Unnatural Selection” and Fifth
4:49 – Becoming an Actor
7:19 – Seeing Beyond Religion
8:11 – Computer Science and Theatre
9:36 – Working in America and Canada
10:05 – Rum and Vodka
12:28 – Comparisons with Office Space
13:25 – Auditioning for Niam
14:30 – Becoming a Father
17:00 – “Progeny” Arrived at the Right Time
18:11 – Portraying Niam
20:58 – Niam Impacted People
22:08 – Is Niam Gone Forever?
23:50 – Where Do Our Thoughts Come From?
24:45 – Johnny’s Practice
26:58 – “Who do you think you are? Angelina Jolie?”
28:03 – Your Life Isn’t One Thing
29:48 – Find Your Character
32:34 – Helping People Transition
33:44 – Glimpsing What’s Beyond
35:16 – Ayahuasca
36:40 – Social Media
38:07 – “The Return, Part 2”
39:09 – The Asurans Were Sentient
40:50 – Delivery Robots
41:54 – They Did Niam Dirty
43:50 – Alec Guinness Resemblance
44:00 – Reprogramming Minds
44:33 – “I want skin like you.”
49:18 – Do you like watching your performance?
50:28 – Niam’s Non-Human Qualities
51:05 – Energy Healing
51:57 – “Who’s Your Daddy”
53:02 – Therapy and Life Experiences
56:59 – Life’s Journey
57:53 – Floating in Space
58:44 – The Closing Shot in “Progeny”
1:00:53 – Thank you, Johnny!
1:01:10 – Post Interview Housekeeping
1:02:11 – End Credits

***

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Good day. And welcome to episode 266 of Dial the Gate, the ‘Stargate’ oral history project. My name is David Read. I am privileged to have with me today a prominent guest star from season three of ‘Stargate Atlantis’. Johnny O’Callaghan, who played Niam. Hello, sir. Thank you for being with me today.

John O’Callaghan:
Thank you. It’s great to be here.

David Read:
Does it feel like it’s been, oh, I guess this would have been, man, 19 years ago that this episode aired. Does it feel like that much time has passed?

John O’Callaghan:
I mean, it does on some level, but it’s interesting to see Jason Momoa. And I was in Malibu, actually other friends probably about a month ago. And I run into Joe Flanigan. So, it’s just it’s funny watching.

David Read:
Did he recognize you?

John O’Callaghan:
He did. Yes.

David Read:
Okay. You didn’t have to prompt him?

John O’Callaghan:
We had a bit of a chat, and he was, I guess he was having to do some commercial with Jason Momoa or something. Or some convention in Australia, I think. But it’s just interesting to see Jason’s career go so big.

David Read:
I know you never can, you know, when people have talent, but at the same time, you have to have the right combination of not just the talent, but also exposure and then and then the right role, and [snap], there you go.

John O’Callaghan:
And there was, I do remember, we’d go out for drinks after on set and stuff and he was really, really fun and nice.

David Read:
Jason?

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, yeah.

David Read:
Absolutely.

He deserves all the success he got for it.

David Read:
For sure. What? Do you think of those episodes, looking back? I hope you got a chance to at least see “Progeny”.

John O’Callaghan:
I did. I went back and I had a look. It’s funny. Yeah, it was an interesting character and it was kind of, you know, it was interesting playing, say, like a replicator, you know, is it AI or a robot with humanity or, I guess he was the glitch, right? He was so, he really was. It was, it was interesting you sent me that first episode of ‘Stargate’ where the replicators…

David Read:
Did you see that?

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. I watched it.

David Read:
So, I shared, just so everyone knows, I shared “Unnatural Selection” with Johnny because, Fifth was kind of like the progenitor of our issues with these beings. So, what did you think?

John O’Callaghan:
Well, I thought it was interesting the idea of betraying the humanity of them. I thought that was a very, you know, and they remind me of me, and I guess it was kind of almost, a very similar kind of, you know, kind of character and, yeah, we know it was it was very interesting. I hadn’t seen that. And it was, it was, I’m not sure no one told me that for my research in doing the part. But it was, yes, 19 years ago was a whole different world. And it’s so interesting. You know, I’m still in LA, which is where, we shot it in Vancouver and, but it was interesting I was adopting my son. I think you might know I have an adopted son from Uganda, and I was adopting my son at the time. So, it’s brought back a lot of those memories.

David Read:
Wow.

John O’Callaghan:
Which is kind of interesting just to kind of. And I had a dog, Charlie, at the time, and it was still, it brought back… So yeah, it’s been a while 19 years. Well it’s a long time.

David Read:
Dogs are the best people, too, man. Yeah. What kind of dog was Charlie?

John O’Callaghan:
Charlie was a little scruffy mutt that I found on the highway in Eagle Rock. I have two dogs right now called Dougal and Julia, which is a husky and a Chihuahua, but Charlie was like, you know, one of those special little ragamuffin sorts of scruffy dogs that you just, you know, that was, like, so loyal and so loving.

David Read:
How old were you when you knew that acting was something that you wanted to do with your life and tell me the story of how that came to be? If you don’t mind.

John O’Callaghan:
A lot of it started, I’m originally from Dublin, but I went to university in Belfast, and that was when I joined a company to bring Protestant and Catholic actors together to kind of create a sense of peace. It was called Belfast Youth and Community Theater, and it was a wild time. It was it was very interesting because when I first arrived there, everyone’s listening to your last name to see are you Protestant, Catholic. And I’m from a mix. A mix, like my mom’s sort of side is Protestant. My dad’s are all Catholic, but my last name is O’Callaghan, so it’s very Irish. So, they’re all like. But it was very interesting working with a lot of people from segregated schools. And this was the first time to really meet, each other in a sort of, you know, non-school environment and to discover, you know, you’re either cool or you’re not. Or in Ireland, they say wankers. You’re either a wanker or you’re not. And it was amazing to see people discover that it didn’t matter whether you were Protestant or Catholic, you could still be a wanker. So, it was it was very interesting to see people connect.

David Read:
What year would this have been around?

John O’Callaghan:
That would have been early like nineties, and like during the troubles. Like the end of the like it 1989, 1991.

David Read:
So right around in it.

John O’Callaghan:
1993. Yeah.

David Read:
Okay. So, people aren’t, cool heads, you know, it’s what you’re doing is, on the edge.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. Because you sometimes you wake up and you’d hear bombs go off or people would follow you home with guns pointing at you, and at the time. See, I it was kind of cool. And maybe I didn’t maybe think of it as cutting-edge kind of in a way. But it was an amazing time, and I loved how we’d spent so long improvising the characters, like you’d spend maybe, you know, go shopping as the character or you’d, you know, you’d spend a weekend. It was it was very kind of like Mike Lee. So, I don’t know if you’re familiar with that filmmaker and his sort of like, he really improvised the character. So, it was a really fun. So, I can imagine going shopping in his name, you know. But it would be a, it was a lot of great research and it was a fun time to kind of enjoy and to watch people heal. It was a very healing time. And that’s what started, you know, we all created a show called ‘Castlerock Random’. We traveled around Ireland and the Republic too. And, it was beautiful to sort of see people get beyond religion.

David Read:
Absolutely. Did you encounter pushback while doing this, or were you encountering people who, you know, ‘I would just like to have some connection with someone. Someone’s doing something different over here. Let’s try this.’

John O’Callaghan:
I think it was met pretty well. Pretty well. But it was still at the time, I remember when I first moved there, I think I moved into a very Protestant area, and a lot of the curves were red, white and blue and I was told you got 48 hours to move out of this, you know, place. And so, it’s still quite an intense time for sure. But it was a fun experience for sure. And it was the mark of maybe where at the time, too, I was studying computer science, which I, which is of a computer science degree, and I’ve never felt so fulfilled doing computers by day and doing theater at night. It was like every part of my writing were fully being used. And it’s been hard to kind of, you know, to recreate that time where we’re fully, you know, fully alive, fully enlivened, if that makes sense. And that was a great time. And the computer science has really helped me in so many ways. I didn’t understand because I never really utilized the computer science degree, you know? And sometimes I was embarrassed to tell people I had a computer science degree, you know, and, but it’s really sort of improved that character when I think about, you know, the sci fi and Niam, and then I ended up when I adopted my son, I also went back to school and did a master’s in psychology to become a therapist. And it was interesting that all of a sudden that made sense, too, because this is very like Siri and or, you know, our ego is very like, Siri or AI. So, with all, everything sort of, nothing’s wasted. I’ve noticed in life, like nothing is ever, no experiment is wasted.

David Read:
No. And everything kind of came together in Niam, almost. That’s cool to hear.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, it’s kind of interesting.

David Read:
When did you come to America? And, were you pursuing acting as soon as you arrived? Was that the intent or were you looking to do something else? Did you head straight to LA?

John O’Callaghan:
No, I went to I went to theater school in Boston. A two-year program there after the computer science degree. And, I’m also Canadian and, so I spent time, although I booked this show in LA, shot in Canada, but I spent a lot of time in Toronto, so I worked a lot as an actor in Toronto. And then I had a one man show called ‘Rum and Vodka’, which was written by a guy called Conor McPherson, and I did that in New York. It was the first time his, you know, his work had been done in North America.

David Read:
Can you please tell me about that show? Can we come back to the other stuff in a moment?

John O’Callaghan:
Yes. Can you say that one more time?

David Read:
You please tell me about rum and vodka?

John O’Callaghan:
Sure. It was a one man show. And it was about this guy who gets fed up at work and throws his computer out the window.

David Read:
I can’t imagine anyone doing that.

John O’Callaghan:
Out was a spiral, like sort of, you know, 72 hours in his life. And that was a really fun, you know, drunken show. And so, it sort of he was a real like character that, you know, needed help. And I was so funny that I’d never gotten so many phone numbers from people in the audience after the show. It was like, people love a fucked up drunk, you know, it’s almost they wanted to rescue me or help me. And, we did that in New York and it went really well. And that’s what took me to LA. I ended up getting the same agent as Jack Nicholson, Sandy Bresler and John Kelly, and they hadn’t taken on a new client in a while, and they saw ‘Rum and Vodka”, and HBO were going to develop it as a show, but didn’t quite turn out. But that’s what brought me down to LA, it was they saw the show. And, as I came up to LA, and I actually said I really liked it, I always thought I would stay in New York. I was an East Coast person. But yeah, for some reason, LA just the temperature, the weather, the space. I was like, this is very special. You know, because I wasn’t the you know, I think LA can be a hard city maybe if you don’t know. But I was luckily very curated. You know, there was a woman that, the only person I knew in LA was a woman called Nia Vardalos, who had was about to do a movie called “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”. And this was 2002, and I hadn’t come out. So, I stayed with her, and she was very lovely and introduced me to lots of different places and people. And, so I really saw the beauty of LA, but I can imagine arriving in LA. not knowing anybody at all, and finding it quite a challenge to understand because it’s so spread out and, you know, it’s so, you like New York City, you can just stumble across things. But in your car in LA, it’s much harder. You have to know where you’re going.

David Read:
Because it’s a completely different lifestyle. I have to ask Johnny, when you saw, I’m assuming you’ve seen ‘Office Space’, did you feel ripped off? The scene with the printer? ‘Office Space’? The scene with the printer? They absolutely destroy this printer with a baseball bat in the field.

John O’Callaghan:
Oh, right. Right. Oh, man. I didn’t see it. I didn’t, I must have missed it.

David Read:
Must, must go see ‘Office Space’. I, I think that rum and vodka. I think that you’d find a vibe for that.

John O’Callaghan:
I don’t know how come I haven’t seen it.

David Read:
It’s one of the great, like, 9 to 5 generation, films. And this guy just snaps, you know, it’s not like ‘Falling Down’. You know, where that’s obviously another situation. ‘Falling Down’ is another great film. But yeah. So, tell me about…

John O’Callaghan:
It was very similar. And you want to. Yeah. It was little like he wanted someone to save his life. Right. And then he meets a woman who’s like saved my life, save my life.

David Read:
Hence the cell phone numbers.

John O’Callaghan:
Yes. That’s funny.

David Read:
Tell me about, auditioning for Niam and getting that role and going to Vancouver. So, this would have been 2005, I think.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. 2005, 2006.

David Read:
2006.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, it was it was actually it was interesting. I went to Uganda. It was one that I arrived in LA in 2002, and I had done a couple of pilot seasons. And I got very close, like, my very first audition I booked, which was a guest star in a show called The Agency. And then I did a lot of auditions, and I was number two for so many different things. I auditioned for, like, be in a room with, you know, for ‘Vanilla Sky’, like auditioning with Tom cruise. And it was just always, ‘oh, he’s great’, but I was always number two or number three, and I was just interested. I went to, I don’t know, I was like, I got a little burnt out. I was like, I’m going to go to Uganda to work on this documentary with a friend and, a Canadian actor. And she asked me very last minute and I was like, oh, yeah, I couldn’t do another, I couldn’t face another pilot season. So, I was like, I’m going to go to Uganda. And I went for about six weeks. And then I came back and, and I meanwhile while I was there that this little toddler crawled into my lap like he was starving with multicolored snot, and mold in his hair, and he just nestled into me like he was home. And I could hear my heart go, he’s your son!

David Read:
Oh my gosh!

John O’Callaghan:
And I was like, oh my God, I can’t leave this kid. But I spent so much time with him and I got very bored listening to sort of the ego, the thinking, the overthinking, like, oh, I’m an actor. I’m single, I’ve no money, or what all the thoughts. And I was like, I’m going to follow my heart. And I ended up signing papers to adopt him. But I had no money. And literally it was, my first audition back was ‘Stargate Atlantis’. And I don’t think I was that prepared to just, you know, I think I might have been still jet lagged. Because there was a there was a moment where I was there. It was, I think, “Pirates of the Caribbean” I’d auditioned for before I left. And I was told they booked it, but they couldn’t reach me because this was before cell phones. I had no cell phone at that time. It probably was cell phones, but I didn’t have one. And, I was unreachable and I lost the part.

David Read:
But you got a son.

John O’Callaghan:
I got a son. And the first audition was ‘Stargate Atlantis’. And I’ve really no money to adopt this kid, but literally within a couple of months, I had a good amount of money in the bank, and I could adopt him. And, so when I think about that show, too, I think was very much part of that journey, you know? So, I think we move in with intention, you know, and then the universe comes and supports our intention rather than waiting till you’re ready, because I don’t think one is ever ready. And, so I was a lot of learning with all of that and also being able to say no to a pilot season, even though my agents were like, ‘oh, it’s going to be a bumper pilot season, you can’t leave LA.’ I’m like, well, I think I can. I just think because a lot of, you know, a lot of pilot seasons at the time, they kind of knew who was going to get the parts. So, it’s a bit of a pony show, really. And, it wasn’t necessarily, you know, because they had their lists and yes, you were always backups and, but it was fun to come back and then do the first audition a little like kind of jet lagged. And then I booked it, which was funny.

David Read:
I love this story. I love how ‘Atlantis’ was there to support you in a time when you needed to make a pivot in your life and you know, the right roles come into focus and lock into place for you to carry out the things in your personal life that you need to. That’s really cool.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, yeah. Well it is. It was perfectly timed and everyone on set were lovely. Like Charlie was on set. He went everywhere. He’s a travel dog and but everyone loved him. And yeah it was a fun audition, was fun traveling to Vancouver, which I hadn’t spent much time in before in such a great city. And everyone, I can’t remember the casting director. Do you remember the casting of that?

David Read:
This what it was is Carol Kelsay. At this point.

John O’Callaghan:
I don’t remember who. But, ‘Atlantis’ was all very lovely.

David Read:
Yeah. Carol Kelsay, Stuart Aikins. There were so many folks who were involved in bringing.

John O’Callaghan:
The Vancouver casting, LA casting.

David Read:
And there were two of them for sure. Yeah. Tell me about who this character is in your recollection. He is kind of a rogue, and he’s beating his own drum in this collective with a few other people who in who are hellbent on trying to make more of themselves and more for their world than the establishment, really. And David Ogden Stiers, oh my gosh, what a presence.

John O’Callaghan:
Yes. Yeah. Oberoth. I thought it was interesting from a technical, I was watching a little bit of it this morning, and I was trying to get that sort of robotic but human. It was, it was fun to kind of, play with, you know, physicality and a little bit of, you know, to give them some sort of stilted-ness, to suggest a little bit, you know, ‘off’, so it’s somewhere to go, like he wanted to kind of become more, even more human, although he seemed more human, right? Like very like loving and caring, but also on a mission, you know, very driven and, yeah, maybe ahead of his time for, for the replicators. And I think he felt very emotional, which, again, was similar with that episode of ‘Stargate’. It was interesting to see that and the choices that actor made and, and watching him, sort of, and he was considered like, you know, the runt or the defective.

David Read:
He was broken.

John O’Callaghan:
You know. Yeah. But because he was caring and loving, which is kind of like society today, almost sometimes if you’re caring and loving, you know, where does that get you? Or because he seemed more human, you know, it was interesting at the very end and they reprogramed, I guess, his code.

David Read:
On the spot.

John O’Callaghan:
On the spot, you know, and then, which is kind of interesting too, when you think about how we got brainwashed in society and AI and all that. And because, like sometimes working as a therapist, I see the, you know, the ego very much is AI, how it’s all programed by religion, society or parents, you know, it’s all things that have happened to us. And it’s interesting watching technology, you know, replicate itself. And humans replicate themselves, true technology, and so yeah that’s a definitely an interesting character. I mean it was I guess all about ascending. But yeah, I think he almost had it already. It was interesting though. You know, maybe it’s that idea to what we all with the, the grass is always greener somewhere else, that we sometimes never really appreciate maybe what we got, you know.

David Read:
That’s certainly true. You know, the character, the question in the show, you know, part of it was at least for a little bit there, can an inorganic thing transcend to another level of consciousness?

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah.

David Read:
Or are they just ones and zeros, or whatever it is that’s in their code, you know, and I really would have enjoyed us going further with that, but instead, he gets reset and he gets spaced.

John O’Callaghan:
Which is disappointing. I think at the time, I think he was quite an interesting character. And so, over the years people have reached out like, you know, because it’s impacted people for such a small piece, too in a way, I was like surprised. But people have reached out over the years and, and, I’m not sure why the writers didn’t necessarily. Because there was talk at the time. I guess they didn’t know probably what to do with them? Yeah.

David Read:
Just leave him in orbit and then we’ll come back.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. So, it could have been a good, an interesting, you know, development, but they I guess they chose not to let’s say.

David Read:
Once he’s reset, and once he is, he’s essentially an automaton at that point, just speaking their words. Yeah. Unless someone like McKay was able to come around and undo that, it’s unfortunate. He’s gone.

John O’Callaghan:
But you would think, too, though, with what you’re talking about. The levels of consciousness…

David Read:
Yeah. Is he in there?

John O’Callaghan:
You know, I would say it’s still in there. That’s what you know, that’s where I do think everything is about waking up. Sometimes because it does feel like we’re in our own little video, our virtual reality just as humans. Right. Like, these do seem like computers, too. I think we a form of, don’t you think?

David Read:
Like an organic one? Yeah.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, I think sci fi is fascinating, you know, and I also teach meditation. I teach meditation earlier. I haven’t been formally teaching it lately, but in classes. But I used to teach a lot of it and, and it was funny when meditation was very “oooo” and, and science sort of caught up with it in 2011 and 2012, you know. So, it’s amazing how I think, you know, science catches up with stuff, you know, even with a sense of maybe spirituality.

David Read:
I totally believe that.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. Like, because it’s like we’re souls having a human experience. And that’s what that’s what this all feels like. I know we’re organic, but who knows? As we learn more, right? We may kind of be like, oh, we’re in a little virtual. We’re in someone’s little, you know, video game or someone’s or our own video game that maybe we’ve created.

David Read:
I think that as we move forward, I think that science will slowly fill in those blanks to a degree, but it’s always chasing that human component of like, okay, where? But, you know, where do we go? Like, when we sleep, we’re dreaming. Where are these things coming from? Where are we pulling from? And so much of it is our is our chemicals. You know what we’ve eaten? What we’ve been surrounded by, what our brain is doing to us. I know for a fact that, judges on the bench will order more harsh rulings before lunch, and then they eat, and then behavior changes, you know, so you’re almost like, please let me get in here to see the judge after lunch.

John O’Callaghan:
Yes, exactly. Well that’s where you can see how it’s so that we can be easily manipulated.

David Read:
Yeah, absolutely. Are you practicing? Do you have patients now? Is that what you’re doing now?

John O’Callaghan:
I do, yeah. I do have a practice. Since 2011. No, sorry. 2009.

David Read:
Tell me about this part of your life. Tell me about how that fulfills you.

John O’Callaghan:
Well, it’s been great too. Whenever I talked about being in Belfast and doing, you know, theater and computers, it’s quite a similar you know, even recently I was doing I did a play and a performance at the Hammer Museum. I played James Joyce, who wrote a book called “Ulysses”. Every June 16th, there’s a celebration called ‘Bloomsday’. And, it was fun. And I saw like, 10 or 11 clients, and then I’m off doing a performance. And I felt very alive again to be kind of, it was fun playing a writer with, like, something to write. And then I also played the character he wrote, Leopold Bloom from “Bloomsday” so that had its own beautiful, you know, experience of creativity to play the writer and the actual character he wrote. Because I really felt understanding the writer influenced the character so much. And that goes back to, you know, I think my therapy experience was initially that I think I adopted my son and I’m like, “Fuck. I’m not very good as a parent.”

David Read:
Join the club.

John O’Callaghan:
Yes. I was like, what is this all about? Until and I realized I needed some good like therapy. And what was good, and what interests me about this particular masters, was that it was heavily about experiential healing, too, because they didn’t feel you could be a good therapist unless you did the work on yourself. Or you’re just regurgitating, you know, diagnosis or information. So, I found that it was a lot of healing to get out of the, you know, to really live in the present moment more and more. And I think acting is all about how present can you be or life even how present can you actually be in the moment? So, and also with Odin, I was like, fuck, I’m not so good at this. And I was like, I’m going to go back to school. So, I went back to school and it was a perfect career for a parent to be a flexible, you know, for flexibility because I could create, because sometimes I’d be arriving on set with my, you know, my dog, my African child. I’m sure people were rolling their eyes.

David Read:
Who is this guy?

John O’Callaghan:
Who the fuck is this guy? Because I remember telling my mom in Dublin, I, I think I found my son, and she’s like, who do you think you are, ‘Angela’ fucking Jolie? She’s like, are you on drugs? You know, it was like. So, so I obviously did therapy. It was fun to do the actual, you know, the work on myself. So that’s freed me a lot not to, you know, for now, acting is beautiful. I love the craft of acting, and I do acting if people offered me something and go, hey, you. You like to do this? I find that very beautiful as opposed to pursuing the business of it. I just got very burnt out with that part of it, so like it now as a, you know. oh, yeah. That’s a good script. I’ll do it if, you know, if it comes to me.

David Read:
I love your take on life in this regard, that it doesn’t have to be one thing or another, like, we are more complicated than that. We are fathers. We are actors. We are people who help one another figure things out. And we can also program.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like we’re not here just to do one thing.

David Read:
That’s right.

John O’Callaghan:
And that’s very freeing to kind of, because I see a lot of actors. Early on, I don’t think people knew as a therapist that I was also an actor. So, they’d come see me. And I was very good at helping actors get out of their own way. And a few started getting big nominations for big award shows and they were all like, “well, you got to go see Johnny, you got to go.” I’m like, I can’t guarantee you like a, you know, an Oscar nomination, but I can help you get out of your own way because I understood the, the computer of it, the mindset, the limiting beliefs, the almost like the AI of it, like if this happens then this, else, like from the computer coding going to go, okay, this is all coding. And we’re just being programmed. It’s not, there’s nothing wrong with you, per se, you’ve just been programmed to think there is something wrong with you.

David Read:
That’s, in many respects…

John O’Callaghan:
The question you’re thinking, right. Is that thought 100% true? What would you be like without the thought? What’s the opposite of the thought? You know, it’s kind of what’s the judgment you’re carrying, you know. So, it was very. And my practice got full like of, like it was fascinating to go there because acting sometimes has been feast or famine, probably a lot of famine. But, you know, therapy, it’s always been busy, it’s always feast. And it’s, I think it’s a lot to do with acting and also computer science.

David Read:
Actors, you know, you have to delve into your, I suppose you don’t have to, but I don’t know if you’re going to be any good. You have to delve into what makes you tick in order to pull out a character, because the character is always going to be a chunk of you. Yes, you have stage direction. Yes, you have to hit your marks. Yes, you have to say these things in the sequence. But still, what drives it is you know, the ego. And I can see actors needing to come up for air and say, okay, you being another fellow actor, what am I missing? Because, and I do agree with you, like a lot of who we are is the world pushing stuff on us. But at the same time, we all at the same time. I’m sure you know this. We also have to be, “Okay. Am I doing something stupid here? You know? Is this like, where am I missing the mark?”

John O’Callaghan:
I think it’s important to unplug from the ego. You see, I think we spent. That’s what was beautiful about meditation. I used to do these ten-day silent retreats where you’d meditate for 15 hours a day and you really unplug the ego.

David Read:
I would not have the patience for that.

John O’Callaghan:
You’d love it. You’d love it. They tend to love it, but it’s quite intense for day three, day four. But I really learned to unplug from the thinking. And then there’s the beingness. It’s really experiencing the beingness of us all where we’re all, I think, the one family where there is just one human race. And that’s why I look forward to other races maybe coming in. But for now, I think we’re all part of the one human race. And I think that gets lost at the moment. And I think the more you can unplug from the ego, which is more the ‘me, me, me, me, me,’ the, you know, self-identification you kind of experience. Another was amazing again, raising my son from Uganda. And you really see that we are all one, too, you know. So yes, of course we I think the ego can get, if we believe our thoughts, like if we, we can get in our own way. Right. If we actually think, you know, I’m special, you know, or like we’re fed all this, but I think we’re special and we’re not special. I think everyone’s special.

David Read:
We’re as special as everyone else. You have you have to remember that you are unique. I think that’s important. Yeah. But that doesn’t make you anything above anyone else, you know.

John O’Callaghan:
No, I totally agree. I think we’re as unique as our thumbprint. I think it’s a piece of love. We’re all a piece of love. And then it gets conditioned. Like, I think we come in and we get. And I think, yeah, the key is get out of the conditioning to be whatever destiny has been programed or whatever is in there that makes you “you”. And I think, and again, where this, that little piece of love come from, you know. It’d be interesting as you know, I sometimes work with also as a death doula, helping people transition.

David Read:
Explain.

John O’Callaghan:
Helping people transition. Like, I’ve been booked out, if you’re going through a dying process, to go to the other side to transition.

David Read:
Oh, so we’re talking like, in hospice.

John O’Callaghan:
Yes. But if you’re preparing for it, from a more like, I wouldn’t be the medical part.

David Read:
Right. The spiritual.

John O’Callaghan:
The spiritual. And because I do like the idea we’re souls having a human experience. Again, I can’t prove that to be true, of course, but I think that allows me to enjoy my life much more as well. That there is meaning. Like, I like a life of meaning. And I think that’s what Niam is. He’s craving for meaning, you know, and I think that’s what we all, we all crave, you know, but we’re sometimes encouraged, maybe to think that we are just like ants, that there is no meaning. But I guess we, you know, we won’t know till we transition, you know, and maybe if we’re blipped out, that’s fine by me too. But I definitely want to enjoy the process of being human and being alive.

David Read:
You know, I, for a long time never believed, I was I was brought up in a relatively secular household. We found the church when I was in high school. But I’ve, in talking with people who have seen things and, you know, who have, like, literally seen, you know, the presence of, you know, someone who… something is happening, and I think that, you as a person, cannot, some people can’t accept that, until they encounter something that whacks them upside the head and says, “I don’t know what that is, but I must conclude that something more is going on than I can perceive.” And, to me, that’s very freeing, because I’m not going to force my beliefs on anyone in this discussion. But I mean to accept that, you know, that they’re…

John O’Callaghan:
It’s a mystery. It’s a mystery. And I think you can’t ignore the mystery. Whatever the mystery is, I don’t know. But there is a mystery, but it’s important that we relate to it.

David Read:
And don’t shut it out.

John O’Callaghan:
No. And I think most people do. And that’s where they need to loneliness and separation and isolation, and they just believe in their thinking, you see. Because most of what we think is not true, but it that’s what creates the depression and the anxiety because we’re, you know, we’re in resistance. But I love that expression. When you fight with what is, you suffer, or some people say when you fight with God, you lose. And it’s just again, you know, I did a lot of Ayahuasca, too when I was in my 20s. I would do Ayahuasca every week. And a friend of mine got bone cancer and she didn’t want to do medical. She didn’t want to do radiation or chemo. And we went on this expedition. And with that, you do leave the unseen some people call it an endogenic, like you’re seeing visions and people will call it some hallucinations, but it’s sense of, like, the first time you kind of… I did it, Jesus and Mary came to me and said, welcome home. And it was so interesting to kind of. Again, because I think I misinterpreted, say, the mystery with religion. Because when I was a kid I think, like, Jesus was my best friend or like a boyfriend almost. He was like so like we were like so, but then religion confused me. All the rules of religion didn’t make any sense. So, I think I rejected it all. And then so it was interesting with the Ayahuasca was very helpful to because you see dead people, you see aliens, you know, you see a lot of it’s a very, you know, great journey to go on.

David Read:
At the very least, you’re plugging into some other aspect of yourself, and that can be revealing in and of itself.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. No, I think that’s what it is.

David Read:
Can see how people would get trapped in that kind of thing, too. You.

John O’Callaghan:
Speaks in your symbol. Yeah. Whatever symbols represent, it will show up to.

David Read:
Absolutely. Oh, wow. I imagine you have a lot to say about social media and how it’s affecting us psychologically and how, you know, we are using it as a measuring, so many of us use it as a measuring stick to compare ourselves against others rather than ourselves against the person that we were yesterday, you know.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah.

David Read:
What would you tell people in your practice?

John O’Callaghan:
I think of social media just as a photo album. Like in a way. Just to it’s like your own magazine of your life. You know, and kind of just keep it at that. Yeah. I don’t think comparing ourselves, I, you know, I think people do fall into that trap and maybe hurt themselves. Because I think we do have our own journey and it’s all, you know, highlights that smoke and mirrors, you know, as well. So again, you know, the way we I say question your thinking, you should also question all these posts because they’re just highlights. We can all manipulate and just show the good parts of life. I mean, I plug in and then I unplug from it. Sometimes I take a few months off and don’t you know, but I see the purpose of it, too. I think it’s we all need connection, you know, and community. And there is some beautiful pieces to it. You know, as we kind of, get more isolated sometimes, you know.

David Read:
For “The Return”, I was hoping that we… Okay. He’s floating around outside of the atmosphere. So, something was going to happen. And I have to say, I was disappointed because, we get you back and then we vaporize you.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah.

David Read:
What was reading that script like? Do you relate, or do you think, “It was great to be back. What are you talking about?”

John O’Callaghan:
It was disappointing I thought, Yeah, it’s. Well, I’m with you. I think they set it up to. I don’t think they. I don’t know, maybe they didn’t feel I did a good enough job, I don’t know, or they just didn’t feel… I felt they set the character up for more for more, you know, to go on more adventures or to figure out. But maybe just there’s only so many storylines. I’m not sure that they could.

David Read:
So, I had a conversation with one of the producers at the time that the show was being made. And in the following season, I don’t know if you know this, but we completely destroy your civilization. Okay? I don’t know if you’re aware of that.

John O’Callaghan:
Oh, no no.

David Read:
We blew up your planet. And I had a conversation with one of the producers about ‘these were thinking machines.’ Who, yes, they were a nuisance to us. Yes, they had they had a desire for retribution. But at the end of the day, they were sentient. And as my business partner Darren said, they have wrath. You know, I think we should try to find a way to make peace. And I’ll never forget, this is just a private conversation with one of them. He was like, “That’s not the story I’m interested in telling. I want to do more action-oriented stuff.” And it was like, okay, all right then. And so, I really do think, honestly, it was ‘we’re going in this direction.’

John O’Callaghan:
Well, that’s what I felt because there was a lot of depth, I thought, to him. There was, you know, I think there was probably conflict. I’m sure there was some people wanting more. And then whoever made had the power to make, because it did seem like they weren’t sure at those times how it was going. It was almost like you were writing it in the moment. You know what I mean? It was being developed. And so, it was that whoever made the choice. But I think there was a lot more to explore and it’s so funny like popped into my head there as you were talking. Now are you in LA. Where are you based?

David Read:
I’m in Nashville. I have to be I have to be near my folks right now.

John O’Callaghan:
But yeah, I hear Nashville is… I haven’t been there in a long time, but people from LA are moving there. I have a good friend that just moved there last week. But the little robots that go around delivering food for Uber Eats, the little wheelie, like, it’s so interesting watching them, you know, going their little like out to people’s houses to drop off the food, so you can keep seeing how that it’s all going to keep getting.. you know.

David Read:
This is not going anywhere.

John O’Callaghan:
No. But you can see how we’re going to have lots of different, you know, even though it’s funny what’s in the cyber, the Tesla Cybertrucks, too looking so robotic or so, you know, different spaceship…

David Read:
You have to wonder, at what point does the little thing after it’s been programmed to, to have some kind of verbal interaction, we’ll turn to the user and say, don’t do this to me. You have to wonder when that’s going to happen. Ah, just reset the darn thing. Yeah, that’s an error. Yeah. Wild. Absolutely. Well, I love what you brought to the character. And I do think that we did him dirty. I wish that they had found a way to, you know, explore him a little bit more because I think it would have been fascinating. I think you brought a lot to that role.

John O’Callaghan:
Thank you, thank you. Yeah, it was definitely fun to play it, and I agree, I think it’s, but just it wasn’t meant to be you know. And but I like the little, the little piece that seemed to impact some people, which is great.

David Read:
Absolutely. If people are reaching out to you, you know, you, that’s the thing about sci fi fans, they get it you know. And they get hooked on these characters and plugged into their perspectives. And it’s like, you know, this this work that you did meant something to me. That’s a cool thing.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, it is right there. No, I think sci fi fans are the best. And I get it. I understand tuning in and our imagination, but I do think that’s all manifesting, too. I do see the world, and it will be interesting to see how the planets continue to develop and, you know, who’s manifesting who. You know.

David Read:
Sci fi is our dream phase.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah.

David Read:
So, at some point we there’s endless examples of, you know, kids growing up in the 60s and 70s with ‘Star Trek’ saying, I’m going to go make that. And they do. And it’s like, at what point is one incontrovertibly feeding into the other? I think it’s pretty clear.

John O’Callaghan:
I think even like things like ‘The Simpsons’ and stuff. Right. Haven’t they put stuff in and it’s all come in, like, who’s actually, you know, so all these sci fi…

David Read:
Oh, the predictions, yeah.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. Different things you know and they, you know. Yeah. Who’s manifesting who?

David Read:
Well you do 30,000 episodes. I think you’re going to get something right.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, probably. But still the mystery of it all I think it’s fun.

David Read:
I have a few fan questions for you if you’ve got another minute.

John O’Callaghan:
Sure.

David Read:
Teresa Mc, just a comment. John reminds me, and several people have agreed, John reminds me of Sir Alec Guinness. I had to share that.

John O’Callaghan:
That’s funny.

David Read:
Jeremy Heiner. Do you still program at all?

John O’Callaghan:
No. I mean, all I would do, from a therapeutic I do help people, I think, reprogram their minds like, to be honest. That’s what we’re doing with affirmations or, you know, healing memories. They do a lot of healing of memories like reframing. And which is it is reprograming. I have to say, the computer science degree has is what has made me a good therapist. Because I feel I really understand how the mind works.

David Read:
I have a question about that. False memory is such a big thing. When you are taking someone back. I’m not sure if you’re doing this through hypnosis or anything, but, how much of a concern is there that, okay, this is being unconsciously manufactured. This is not a repressed memory.

John O’Callaghan:
Sometimes there’s implants, like, there’s a thing called implants, I think between 0 and 7, right, we’re very open to, we just absorb, there’s no filter. And, an amazing moment, when my son was five. And he was like, daddy, daddy, I want skin like you. And we talked about reincarnation a few weeks before. And I said, “Remember? We talked about reincarnation. You’ve already been white. You did that. In this lifetime, you chose to be brown.” And literally he recalibrated like you could see it in the moment where he’s like, “Yeah, I did that. I don’t need that.” And cut to few months later when he came home from school and said, “Daddy. A girl in my class said, I’ve got skin like poop, but I forgive her. I remember being an Asian girl in a past lifetime and it was very difficult.” So, he was able to apply. So, I think it’s like there’s, you know, and also adopting a kid to like the schools are all set up. But what was what was your first words? It’s all geared towards kids that have been biologically birthed. So, you have to create implants and I’d say, “Oh, you’re the most beautiful baby.” Like they’re implants, right? So, I think, yes, there’s false. I’m all about reprogramming, because there’s a lot of ideas of going back and implanting positive stuff. And that really leads to having an effective presence today. You know, I’m not crazy on, you know, if something doesn’t support you. So, if I’m tapping into people’s memories and they come across, whether it’s as, what you’re talking about, too, whether it’s a real memory or whether it’s or like some people think it’s a past lifetime or it’s something else, right? It’s just whatever makes you the winner in your story because the mind is a storyteller. It’s the ego’s a storyteller. I think it’s parables. That’s what the Bible is in parables. I want all my clients to be the winner in their stories. And that’s what helps you to lead, a fun life and to relate to it because it’s all about, ‘I can’t stop the weather’, but it’s how do you relate to the issue? Was the issue how you relate to yourself? Like, can you like, really love yourself no matter what? Can you really kind of… So, I think sometimes people come across tragic memories and whether they’re true or not, I think we got to, reframe them and heal them anyway and just put them. Whether you’re tapping into someone else’s, your parents, the lineage, you know, I don’t think anything is random. I do think that’s what I think the programing, I don’t I think a lot of it is, is, you know, what’s in your subconscious that’s coming up for a reason. Maybe. Am I answering that?

David Read:
Well I think so. And I think no matter what it is that you believe, our framing device is story is ‘beginning, middle, end.’

John O’Callaghan:
And let’s be the winner in the story rather than be the victim. You know what I mean, like the victim-perpetrator mindset gets tiring.

David Read:
It’s not constructive.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah it’s the Buddhist idea that we choose our parents before we come in, or we choose to be adopted, or we choose our sexuality. We choose everything, which I also find very, you know, again, it gives meaning. It gives you power. Oh, these are choices I made. Oh, I want to experience this. This is something not to be in resistance to. Maybe they’re not, maybe the way… Like, I remember growing up in Ireland and ‘The Cosby Show’ was the perfect family, know what I mean? Well, I was like, God, I wish I was adopted or me, it was like…

David Read:
The Huxtables man, I want to be in that household.

John O’Callaghan:
It was like the perfect. And then it’s interesting to see how that has unraveled, too. And it’s different.

David Read:
Yeah. That’s so sad.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, yeah.

David Read:
But I know, I think that that’s absolutely right. I think nihilism is so destructive because it affords you the ability to not just not just claim powerlessness, but also be like, ‘I can’t help that the way things are, so I don’t have to worry about it. I can continue to be self-destructive, either in here or out here.’ And it’s not useful moving forward and up in the world. It’s just not. It may feel good, but only temporarily.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah, momentarily, I think.

David Read:
Yeah, yeah. Really extraordinary stuff. Teresa MC. What was it like watching yourself on screen? Do you like to watch your performance? A lot of actors don’t.

John O’Callaghan:
No, I don’t at all. Of it was funny watching that character, though. Because again, I think, I was laughing at my approach because I was taking, like, a robotic. It was just interesting because how do you play? So, it’s funny, I was laughing, I thought was like, that’s interesting. At least I made some choices, which I thought was interesting. But. So, it’s so long ago too. Aging is interesting watching the age becoming, oh my God, ‘who am I today?’ Like Alec Guinness or whatever. You know, it’s kind of, like, it is funny how it’s also raising because my son now is a man, and he joined the US Navy, he’s doing cybersecurity in the US Navy. And, you know, it’s interesting all those last 19 years have been spent, you know, raising him and, so it is funny. Age. So, it definitely brought back to think again, ‘Oh, my God.’ Like, you know, but it was fun. It was it definitely good to go back in time, even talking about it today. It’s a, it’s a fun…

David Read:
Well, I re-watched it and you know I think that there’s a lot that informs that. Because he’s not spoken with humans before. So how we perceive him is not going to make sense. I think he’s going to interact with them the way that they interact with one another, which is probably not very often verbally. They probably just think it, you know, because they’re plugged into a neural network. So, and I think with that perspective that’s good.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. Yeah. How do you convey it? I remember being fun doing research at the time and saying, what kind of ideas? W for the age.

David Read:
Ginelle Craner. Do you use any energy healing in your work?

John O’Callaghan:
And I do some Reiki when, you know, because there’s a bit of a spiritual aura. Like, I would try everything, you know, always stuff. And I think, like, if I ever get a massage, I will always go to someone that’s able to plug in to the unseen, you know, whatever that is. More than just working on me physically. Like I do think, yes I think. Every study has shown, too, with therapy, that it’s not the modality of it, it’s the consciousness of the therapist is actually what helps with the healing. And they said about neighborhoods too, like the it’s not so much about the families, it’s the consciousness of the neighborhood is so important.

David Read:
Because people are thinking a certain way and they manifest that.

John O’Callaghan:
Yes. Oh, you know, so if that answers that.

David Read:
Yeah. The misadventures Of a Little Wolf wants to know, has John, have you written any have you written any books on therapy? Have you written any papers?

John O’Callaghan:
I’ve written a show called ‘Who’s Your Daddy?’ Which is the story, adopting Odin my son from Uganda. And, it’s a very spiritual how I, you know, it’s definitely a story of inspiration. And, I need to. I mean, I’ve written some stuff and, I think now, because I was sort of a single parent for so long. And, you know, I realized after a while I could only do so much. But now that my son, I’m an empty nester and, now I have more time, I definitely think I’ll go back to writing, because I do enjoy. And I do love the holistic and the learning. I love to see the meaning of stuff and the learnings and even, you know. So, I went through a major break up, too at one point there like a year ago. And learning about that, like the, you know, the healing and all that. So, yeah, there’s a lot of stuff to write about. And I think I have more bandwidth now today to do it.

David Read:
I would think that for a therapist, going through something as, this may be too personal, going through something so, transformative as a major breakup, you know, part of me would feel like, ‘Well, I’m failing at life. What do I have to offer these people? You know, they’re coming to me for advice. Look at what I’ve just, you know, the situation that I’m in.’

John O’Callaghan:
I think it’s the same with actors. I think why we love to watch certain actors is because they’ve been through stuff. And I think that’s why we watch I think. So, it’s what’s the Leonard Cohen, the cracks is what shows the light and or lets the light shine through. And I think that’s why we watch certain people and I think going through it too, because I never want to teach anything that doesn’t work. So, it was it was very interesting to apply the skills and the stuff. And I think life is always conspiring in our favor. Like I like the idea it’s a movie and it’s what am I trying to teach myself? Because I do think I’m the, from a very high altitude, I’m the sort of co-creator of like, ‘why do I want to go through that breakup? What am I trying to teach myself?’ So, I try and get like again, away from the victim. Although we have to kind of process that part of us too, and the grief, you know, and but now I think it all lends itself again, you know, because we’re all learning how to be human and how can we, as a therapist, I think you need to be. I don’t think there’s any I don’t think you go to a therapist… unless they’ve learned to transform and heal themselves, I don’t think you’re going to do any effective work. You know what I mean? So, I think the more people have been through, as long as they don’t get stuck in it, you know, get bitter. You know, I think as long as the therapist is able to heal. Because now I have so much more empathy and compassion, too, for breakups. I’ve been dealing with breakups the last few months with clients and really, you know, understanding, you know, how to help them get through it. Because there is a lot of things that you can do to heal that pain. But it is a process. And to understand. No, it does take a year to two years. You know, it’s a process. And I again, I’m not I don’t believe in just regurgitating information. I think it’s you know, I watched the Amy Winehouse biography movie. And I loved how she talked about how she only writes songs that she’s experienced or been through. And I think we all need to be authentic. And I think we can be a great light even though we are going through stuff. So even go through the breakup I was seeing, say, 11, I see 11 patients in a day. And yes, I’m going through, but it was great to still be present. You know, it doesn’t, you know, it’s a gift in a way. Like I think theater too is a great gift if you’re ever going through something because it gets you out of the mindset into a different character. And that’s all, it’s really understanding again, the mind and, it’s your assistant, you know, it’s all it’s all it’s where a lot of us become puppets to it. You know, so it definitely relates to acting and again, going back to Niam, I think he was ahead of his time.

David Read:
Absolutely. And, you know, I think we do plug in to ourselves, can plug into ourselves a little bit too much when,

John O’Callaghan:
And other people.

David Read:
Right, I mean, if I’m just setting myself up to avoid danger, that may be dangerous over there, we have to avoid that at all costs. We can’t possibly overcome it.

John O’Callaghan:
But don’t you find, you live life forward and you only understand it backwards. Like, every experience, you know is nothing is ever wasted. And I still don’t fully understand, say the break(up), it’s a year later. It’s a year and couple of months later, I still don’t fully understand. But I do know I will one day, and I’m sure it’s, it will be, I’ll get what, needed to experience that, but that was for my own good.

David Read:
And I believe you when you say, you know, if you’re going to help someone make a journey, you can’t do it if you haven’t made the journey.

John O’Callaghan:
Yes, I agree.

David Read:
You know, I mean, sure, there are some things, but not something as major as, you know, a breakup, you know?

John O’Callaghan:
No, I think in general, it’s like teachers, you know, it’s like even my acting teachers, sometimes I think if they, you know. I think you got to really understand, you know, the process to be able to because I love to take the mystery out of things, too. I think people talk in mystery or riddles if they don’t really know what’s happening, if they don’t really know what’s going on. I think people hide behind. And some acting teachers do that, too. They don’t know how to really articulate the technique or really what is happening. How can you show up, you know, using your skill set and tools? So, I think the more someone we can really talk, you know, and communicate and understand, you know, I think the healing will happen.

David Read:
Last question for you. Lockwatcher wanted to know how did they pull off the scenes of you floating in space? Did they have you rigged in something? Were you on the floor?

John O’Callaghan:
That was rigged? That was that was something I saw. That was like, oh my God. Yeah, I’m on like a little crane, a seat on a crane, a little like. And they put me in the, you know, so it’s a little seat on a crane. And then I guess they, with an arm. So, I guess they got rid of that with CGI or whatever. But it was a big, sort of a big warehouse.

David Read:
Where you high off the ground?

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it was a lot of fun. I remember like it was a that was a really fun episode to shoot. I have to say, it was a lot of fun. It was busy. It was it was a great time. And everyone was so, so cool. Torri Higginson.

David Read:
Torri Higginson, you got it.

John O’Callaghan:
Yeah. A lovely, lovely woman, too. And, they’re all like great, great people.

David Read:
That closing shot of you, and you’re looking at the planet. Is there anger in Niam’s mind? Is there, is it just blank? What do you think he’s thinking?

John O’Callaghan:
I think he’s confused and sad and disappointed, but I think he still has that consciousness. I don’t think that, you know, but I think, oh, God, I’m being manipulated. I think as a society, we get manipulated, too. Media, like we, you know, and it’s and sometimes we do shit that we don’t know why we’re doing it. And I think he’s aware because again, I do think these we are computers. I think we are some form of technology that we will understand even more and more as time goes by.

David Read:
I love how you left it up, the expression is open to interpretation. I’m thinking to myself, oh, he’s got to be thinking, I can’t wait until someone picks me up, man. I’m going to get those people!

John O’Callaghan:
Right. Well, I don’t believe, I don’t personally, I don’t believe in revenge. I think life takes care of people, you see, because I do think we’re boomerangs. Whatever we give out, we get back. And my job is just to keep being the best version of myself. And I’d like to think Niam would get there, but I don’t. Again, I love that first episode of ‘Stargate’ where we betrayed his own humanity. You know, it’s because our egos can think, oh, we’re the only humans. Would be interesting as different, you know, species come in to orbit. You know, it would be interesting to see how we, like again, are we humans so special? But no, I think we’re all, you know what I mean? I think we’re all piece of the animal kingdom that’s so special. We’re all like, so, you know, the plants.

David Read:
And the synthetic is going to continue to evolve with us as I don’t think you un-ring that bell. Yes. It’s going to be interesting.

John O’Callaghan:
It will be well but exciting. And I think that’s why we’re here to learn to live life and to be human. And even like COViD and stuff. We all learned how to relate. I think it’s like what boats were sailing and we’re like learning how to, you know, sail through stormy weather, through sunny weather. And that’s what’s exciting. As long as we can keep, you know, that buoyancy with life and that begin your day, you know. And, with that, I think it’s a fun ride.

David Read:
Johnny O’Callaghan, thank you for sharing yourself today, sir. This has been very special.

John O’Callaghan:
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you.

David Read:
I appreciate you being here. I’m going to go ahead and wrap up the show. We, really appreciate you watching and, it means a lot to have you tuning in with us. If you enjoy ‘Stargate’ and you want to see more content like this on YouTube, please click that subscribe button. It really helps with the show and growing its audience. And, please also consider sharing the video with a ‘Stargate’ friend. And if you want to get notified about future episodes, click subscribe. Giving the bell icon a click will notify you the moment new video drops, and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes. And clips from this live stream will be released over the course of the next few weeks. On both the Dial the Gate and Gate World Net YouTube channels. We have a jam-packed weekend heading your way, so visit DialtheGate.com for all of the upcoming interviews. I’m going to be taking most of July off, so we’re really excited about, the next few episodes that are coming in. My profound thanks to my moderating team. Antony, you did us all proud, buddy. Tracy. Jeremy. Marsha, Summer, thanks so much. Linda Fury. Frederick Marcoux, my animators, you guys are the best. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate, and I will see you on the other side.