When the System Lords fell, the Lucian Alliance stepped in to fill the power vacuum. Eric Steinberg, who played their leader, Netan, joins us on Dial the Gate to explore the character and his larger career!

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Welcome everyone, to Episode 434 of Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I am privileged this episode to be joined by Eric Steinberg, who played Netan in Stargate SG-1. We have him live this episode, so if you are joining us live and you’re in the YouTube chat, go ahead and submit your questions over to Antony and to Lockwatcher, who are available there to take them and get them over to me. Eric, welcome sir.

Eric Steinberg:
Yes, sir.

David Read:
It’s a treat to have you.

Eric Steinberg:
Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to be with you.

David Read:
You said you were in DC. What brings you to DC, if I may ask?

Eric Steinberg:
I am. No, no, please, I’m actually a DC native. I was born in DC General. My mother is still here and I’m back looking after her right now. She’s a little bit fragile at the moment, so I’m making sure she’s protected and OK.

David Read:
I am in a similar situation with my mother, so we’re approaching that.

Eric Steinberg:
Are you really?

David Read:
Yeah. All this is to say that I understand exactly where you’re coming from and when the time is right, you don’t want to be anywhere else. Not to say she’s on her way out or anything.

Eric Steinberg:
Amen.

David Read:
But we are all on our way out. At a certain point, if you were tight with your folks, you find ways to make it work and you’re there for them if your heart’s in the right place. If they didn’t drive you nuts.

Eric Steinberg:
Because of how you’re talking about it, I know you understand and I also know that you are one of the fortunate ones like me. Not everybody is so fortunate to have parents who you have to be so grateful for. So, we’re lucky and we’re loyal because we’re lucky. We’ve been lucky.

David Read:
How far back does your love of this craft go and where does it stem? When did you get the bug? Can you tell me that story?

Eric Steinberg:
I think that it was very natural for me. It wasn’t so much of a mystery because my father loved literature. He was a writer and a professor and my mother was a soprano. She was a coloratura soprano and then eventually a voice professor at George Washington. Growing up, our church was the arts without having it explicit. I ended up taking to it in a rather natural way. It came very naturally. It wasn’t until college, really, that it really kicked off in a way that seemed so natural. It’s also seductive. I was painting as well and writing, but the physical communication, the tangible sensuality of performing and the give and take with an audience is so seductive. It’s a different kind of high than other things; it’s an individual pursuit. So, that really struck me. Then I got sent over to England on a little fellowship to do philosophy and literature there. In England, theater was so serious that my view of it changed. There was no rah-rah, la-la stuff, look at me. It was very political. Especially the students, as you would imagine, doing things that are as radical as they could be. They wanted to shock at the time. So, it brought me into it in a unique way. I finally began to have a respect for the art that I think, as a young culture here in America, sometimes we don’t have a reverence for it.

David Read:
That’s the word I was about to use. That’s right.

Eric Steinberg:
So, that really did it. I was really lucky because my background in Shakespeare and theater, I got started in theater. I was watching last night, the other night too, these episodes, I really saw how as a young actor, all that theater stuff makes a big difference when you’re doing fantasy things, whether it’s science fiction or other fantasy genres. The ability to be less naturalistic without chewing the furniture up is something that you take with theater.

David Read:
Not to get too early into Netan, but there’s a poise and stature there. We can go into the Lucian Alliance in a little bit here and the fact that they are scoundrels and ruffians and the darkest kind of side of Han Solo. I can see what you’re saying in terms of you command those rooms that you’re in. You’re not messing around. Those are your men and those ships are yours now and you are taking them.

Eric Steinberg:
I have to say, I have to confess, we’re talking tradecraft here. I learned this early in a Shakespeare play; the other actors give you your kingship; they give you your power.

David Read:
I see.

Eric Steinberg:
I can be tough and still, or I could be angry in this space I’m in. When I turn my head and everybody bows, it does all the work for you. The guys I worked with, without having been told, responded that way as actors. When an actor does that for you, you’re granted that status. So, it worked well for me in that case. I remember the first time that happened. I was doing Winter’s Tale and there was a part where clearly, he’s going crazy. His court is behind him and you could see they’re all scared. He turns and in a very threatening way, he says what he’s going to do. He turns and he says, “Have I done well?” Immediately, everybody kneels and they were all, “My lord, my lord.”

David Read:
Terrified.

Eric Steinberg:
The power comes from their reaction. The power comes from the reaction totally. I could have done that and somebody could be in back of me and be like, “Huh.” That would have completely destroyed any moment of power or my authority. It’s one of those working together things that worked for that.

David Read:
I can so see that with these characters, because when they impart that, if you turn towards them and then they cower, especially with the nature of the galaxy at this point, in terms of the mythology of the show, the audience has to ask themselves “What has this guy done to get where he is?” I’m sure, were we to ask him that, he would be very much like a Mussolini or a Hitler or a, “I did what I had to do to feed my people under oppressive circumstances by this parasitic creature that has taken over the galaxy for thousands of years.” I’m sure Netan would say, “I did what I had to do.”

Eric Steinberg:
Yes, exactly. I think you hit it on the head. I love that you love villains.

David Read:
They’re such fun.

Eric Steinberg:
It’s so much fun. As an actor, they’re more fun to play usually, because they have to be the spark of that story part. I remember it was an early acting professor of mine, he was saying to me, “Eric, you have to understand something. You’re trying too hard, you see? You have to understand the villain. He doesn’t think of himself as a villain. He’s the hero. It’s his story.” I kind of tried to take that into all the guest stars I’ve done in any show, often many of them the bad guy or the suspected bad guy. When you’re working on it, you’re not thinking, you’re not glowering and lurking in the thing. You’re thinking, “I’ve gotta get this done. I’m the guy.” It’s my story.” So, that helps, too. It’s like an old trick. It’s your perspective, how you’re gonna approach it personally and not making assumptions for the audience or for the plot.

David Read:
That’s right. Do your part, have some fun and let the rest unfold. Trust the documents that you’ve taken in and that everyone is using to make this thing happen.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s also a great thing about stepping into a production like this. The people were incredibly welcoming. They’re used to working, as you know, with this type of plot structure; where you have this recurring person they bring back and they’re incorporating different elements of the storylines. It’s very ingenious the way they did it, ’cause not only were they personally very welcoming to me, it’s a wonderful feeling as an actor to go and have great people take care of you. But you can see how they’re also adept at drawing the audience into caring about somebody. So, when they’re eventually killed, which of course they will be at some point, or taken away, there is a feeling to it. It’s not just an adjunct thing. The audience, without knowing it, over those periods of time, a short period of time really, there’s a reaction to that character, whether it’s good or bad. You might be glad to see him go; it doesn’t really matter. The point is, they’ve been there in a way. That seed has been planted by the production, by the way they’re shooting it. I thought that was very ingenious.

David Read:
I think the worst reaction is indifference. If you can get a positive or a negative reaction from an audience member, you’ve done your job.

Eric Steinberg:
I think you’re right.

David Read:
Let’s step back from Netan for a minute. Is there a role, perhaps in theater, that you’ve done that has remained glued to you ever since, hat you’ve never really shook? Or an experience that you’ve had that’s, “this is one that I’m gonna carry with me for the rest of my life.” Have you been lucky enough to have an experience like that that you can share?

Eric Steinberg:
I think it would have to be Mercutio in Romeo and Juliet. That was the first time they gave me the responsibility of carrying one of those leads; an important part. I was very young. I was at Actor’s Theater of Louisville and then I did it in a bunch of theaters so I played the role three or four times in different cities. Romeo and Juliet was never one of my favorite plays, but that guy was always one of my favorite guys in all of theater. It seemed to me there was something so perfect about the structure of this part. He comes on, he just explodes all over everybody and has this incredible death scene too, so you yearn for him later. It’s structurally perfect as a role.

David Read:
Shakespeare? Structurally perfect? No.

Eric Steinberg:
Surprise. This bum. It was glorious. I think I would say that that role really defined me. I was at a barbecue the other day and we were being loud and somebody says, “Oh, look, we’re a little loud. We ought to be a little quiet.” The first thing that came to my mind was that line from the play, which is, they’re all like, “Ah, Mercutio, let’s get out of here,” Benvolio and Romeo. “It’s so hot. Things might happen. We’re gonna be in trouble.” He just looks at him and he says, “Men’s eyes were made to look and let them gaze. I budge for no man’s pleasure, I.” Certain lines, you can’t not think of them. They’re so good. I’ve had a few occasions with that. I’ve been lucky to have that with a number of theater things. There are even a few things in television which are memorable, not so much ’cause they were such great moments, but because I learned something important on them. As a craftsman, you learn your craft little by little and I found that it’s always from being on the job that I learn the most, despite taking classes and studying. You study all you want, but then you’re faced with a veteran actor and it’s just the kind of thing where…

David Read:
There’s theory and there’s application.

Eric Steinberg:
Yes. There’s also the absolute terror of having to match up with somebody who is gifted beyond your means, yet you’re not there, so you better bring something. It stuck with me. I was on a B or C movie up in San Francisco and the actor I was working with was the great Sam Elliott, the kind of westerner. A brilliant actor, brilliant guy. That voice. He and I were doing a scene on the docks and somebody had been murdered and I’m basically the cop who the hero comes to. He says, “What happened here?” I’m like, “Look, we got something bad.” I’m the guy who tells him what happened. We take a break and he gives me a cigar. I’m this young actor and I’m smoking a cigar with him and he says, “You doing all right, kid?” I’m like, “Yeah, I’m a little worried. There’s so much information. How am I gonna get all this information out there?” He’s like, “Kid, just throw it away.” I went, “What?” He’s like, “Just throw it away, kid. Like you ain’t saying nothing.”

David Read:
“Oh, don’t worry about it. Stop worrying about it.”

Eric Steinberg:
That was his advice to me. Say it like it’s a list. “Just throw it away. It’s nothing.” We did the scene next and I was like he’s like, “Hey, what we got, Jerry?” I’m like, “Sir, we got a terrible scene. We got four guys dead and they stabbed in the thing.” It was nothing. I was really on a grocery list. He was absolutely right, just like the way we’re talking about acting. You do this, you train the thing and it’s just work. It’s my job. What do you want? So little moments like that, these kinds of things are the lessons that I take away and I’ll never forget.

David Read:
One of the things that I have had to remind myself of and something that you said about Mercutio, is something that I actually live my life by. I have for the last third of my life, half of my life, been very much the line that you gave, which I loved. The version that I take with it is, if I’m in a situation, I’m not gonna cause trouble, but I’m also gonna accept the fact that if there’s an opportunity for me to pick up a story that I can share for the rest of my life, that’s the route that I’m gonna take. It’s not to say that I want this to go down poorly, but make your day interesting. Say something that may get a reaction out of somebody. Be willing to accept the call to adventure in your life and not just be on cruise control.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s so true.

David Read:
He has his own reasons too. Harold Perrineau played an amazing… I think he’s my favorite version of that, in terms of on screen.

Eric Steinberg:
That film version is brilliant.

David Read:
Oh man.

Eric Steinberg:
A brilliant one.

David Read:
He’s the best in that, as far as I’m concerned. There is something to be said for that.

Eric Steinberg:
Him and Leguizamo are both great in that.

David Read:
Leguizamo was good too. That’s true. Man.

Eric Steinberg:
Great foil.

David Read:
The other part of it is, in terms of what you were saying about reading the list and everything else, accept the fact that you’ve been brought on for a job. They trust you to execute this, don’t overthink it. You haven’t been brought on to overthink it; you’ve been brought on to execute what’s on the page. Accept that people have seen in you that you can deliver it so you’ve already got the job and just do it. Get out of your own way, whatever that job is in life.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s so right. What’s strange, you say that and you’re right, David. I have to say, it’s been one of the biggest struggles for me as an actor, exactly that; is granting yourself some license to not to be worried, basically. You’re so kept in a state, as a performer, you need an audience. You need to be given the job; you need a production. You can’t go out like a painter and paint. Or give yourself license, or write. I will say, there wasn’t really a place where I got to, but it was a long period of years before I could give myself license to take chances and to do something if you were doing takes, say you do five, ten takes of a scene. I remember somebody saying to me once, it was perfect, it’s just like what you were saying, “One of the takes should be the opposite of your instinct. Just do one take that is completely the opposite.”

David Read:
“And see what happens.”

Eric Steinberg:
“And commit to it.” See what happens. It’s gonna be thrown away anyway if they don’t like it. For you, as the performer, if you’re the brooding villain in one, but in one take you decide to literally find it hysterical, or some reason, it’s absolutely hysterical for you in that moment. Sometimes that gives you a lesson, a quick jolt: “Oh, there’s a moment in here I’m missing.” Or, “There’s a whole meaning I’m missing and I should’ve been doing this completely differently. It’s much more powerful this way.” So, I agree with you. It’s a certain confidence you have to give yourself so you can make the most egregious mistake and for once, as a professional, not worried about being fired every second. I’ve spent years on every job wondering, “Oh, God, they’re gonna fire me in five minutes.” I think that kind of bravery, whatever you wanna call it, is very important.

David Read:
A willingness to be spontaneous. If you’re on the clock and every second matters, that may not be the time to do it. Colin Cunningham and I have talked a lot about that kind of thing. He loves taking things in an off-the-wall direction, especially in his auditions, because, “If I’m not gonna get this, at least I’m going to entertain myself for this short duration.” A lot of the times, he’s found that he’s succeeded in that result. Also, the give and take from another actor, having the presence of mind to catch those moments. I don’t know if you’ve seen Twin Peaks, but there is a scene in Season Two, the first episode, between Dale Cooper and a llama. This llama, he’s in the scene, he’s in a veterinary clinic and he’s walking by and this llama gets in his face as he’s walking by and the llama goes [turns head away]. So, Dale goes, [copies]” It was on the day, in that moment, but he was so present and it’s in the episode and it’s brilliant. So, being spontaneous and accepting the fact that spontaneity can happen to you and being ready to go with it, can unlock all kinds of possibilities for that camera to suck it in.

Eric Steinberg:
It’s beautiful moments like that. Amen.

David Read:
That’s right.

Eric Steinberg:
Now, wait a minute. How do you come to love the art? Where was your genesis at being drawn into the arts?

David Read:
I grew up on my dad’s lap watching Star Trek at three years old. The Original Series and Next Generation, Tuesday nights. I was between my folks, in the big bed with a thing of popcorn, watching Next Gen. Those are the formative years of my life. Star Trek and I, there is no daylight between us. It’s just expanded out from there.

Eric Steinberg:
For me too. Star Trek was massive for me. Listen, Sulu was the only Asian American on television at the time. So just for that, I was glued. But everybody else was spectacular in their own way. The color of the shirts, the kind of weaving in of the mythology and the morality of it all, consciousness of that; it was unlike anything else. That was a gigantic force for me too, I have to say. I didn’t know I wanted to be an actor, but I was blown away.

David Read:
Absolutely. There’s something that’s outlandish about it. Sulu’s controlling that, he’s piloting that ship with two rocker switches. He’s working those two things. The point is that we get it. We’re being teleported and we’re being conveyed elsewhere and that’s what you’re doing with Stargate as well. Tell me about Netan. Who is this guy to you? Thank you so much for rewatching your arc. I’m thrilled that you have. What is your takeaway now and what was your takeaway then, in reading the material? Who was this guy?

Eric Steinberg:
My takeaway now I’ll start with, because it’s one of those things I’m sure you’re familiar with. You look back and you’re just like, “Ugh, I could have done so much more.” When I look at it as a total, I’m like, “Wow, I had no sense of how it was all gonna loop together.” I just trusted them, of course, which is good, because it frees you up. You’re not worried about this and that, you’re not trying to connect dots. But I look back on it and I’m like, “Ugh, I could have brought so much more to him.” But of course, that’s what I think about every role, basically, I played, especially ones where you get to come back and really sketch things out.
At the time, for me, I really latched onto the fact that he was a mercenary. I related to that because as an actor, you’re a mercenary, there’s no home. Funny thing is, I was reminded about what bothered me about the Lucian Alliance when I was there on set. They gave us those uniforms with these insignia and it always irked me a little bit. I was like, “I wonder if we should be so corporate. I get the sense that we should be a little rougher, we wouldn’t have the same clothes on. We might not have uniforms.”

David Read:
I’m thrilled you brought this up.

Eric Steinberg:
We’re such a bunch of smugglers and traffickers and drugs and the whole thing. My view was, “Wow, we’re really sorted out and suited up for this.”

David Read:
They want to look like that.

Eric Steinberg:
Of course, as an actor, you accept whatever. But when I first got there, I latched in on the mercenary thing and I felt like this guy essentially got to where he was by coldly killing people and surgically getting rid of anybody in his way. If you only do that a few times, you get to be in charge of something that’s bigger than yourself and I assume that that’s how he got in. It’s a matter of cunning and a quick willingness to execute somebody right there.

David Read:
In the truest sense of the word.

Eric Steinberg:
I also liked the fact that the guys who I was working with, who were playing the Alliance, they all had separate approaches too, without any of us coordinating, which was perfect for the plot, really, and actually served us really well in every way, including working on the scenes together. Everybody I worked with, the other actors, made it easy. They were all right there in their parts, playing it beautifully. That helped me out a lot. It also helped me with him, I think, because we were prompted by the formality of the Lucian Alliance, which is not necessarily what I thought it was gonna be. It allowed me to focus my guy, to focus Netan into something that was more precise; a little more controlled than I thought he was gonna be. So, less physically imposing, more psychically, mentally imposing, more will-wise. Especially when you’re working with actors that good, like Teal’c, who are so powerful and have that ability. You can’t match that; you’ve gotta take a different approach. All of that worked to help form how I thought of him as on the edge, clipped and curt and self-assured, but they wrote him with an interesting quality, self-assured and cruel. You see when he gets with Kefflin in those moments; there’s a strange friendship, strange familiarity, all of a sudden, he’s so much softer than he was with his own guys. That fascinated me too, even though that wasn’t so much a conscious thing. That was written in and you’re there. All of a sudden, you’re like, “OK.” There’s this friendship side to him and that was fascinating.

David Read:
I’m really thrilled to get into Kefflin with you here in a minute. This is fascinating to me. May I ask how tall you are?

Eric Steinberg:
Yeah, six foot even.

David Read:
OK. It’s been a while since I’ve seen a lot of these episodes, but I’m recalling that you were often not the biggest guy in the room. I think that there is a part of him that is very comfortable in his own skin and has accepted the fact that all of these people will die for him because of what he has done to get where he has gotten, to keep these people alive. I very much get that impression. If we were to corner him in a room and say, “Look, you are a genocidal maniac,” he would be like, “I did what I had to do and my people are here so I’m not going to apologize for that.” But I really have always gotten the sense that his strength has been from within and not from without. He doesn’t throw his weight around unnecessarily. You don’t have a lot of scenes of yelling and screaming. The other portion of it that I find very interesting, they have uniforms and they have rank. That’s Netan’s idea. “OK, now, these ships we’ve just found lying around the galaxy. We’re gonna gather them all up together and we’re gonna give ourselves these uniforms and we’re gonna have a command structure and we’re now going to play military.” The Lucian Alliance are effectively playing military while being the ones that are brutalizing the galaxy. I mean, “meet the new boss, same as the old boss. They just don’t demand that you worship them but they’ll get you hooked on corn.”

Eric Steinberg:
That’s fascinating. I never thought about it quite that way, but the idea of them forming a de facto military wing out of all these odds and ends. My father used to write about this. Basically, they grant themselves political legitimacy with those uniforms, with the ranks. All of a sudden they’re deciding, “We’re not just stragglers or killers and drug runners. This is now official.”

David Read:
Now that they have the technology, but they haven’t earned it intrinsically. They just took it, that’s all they did, just like the Goa’uld. The Goa’uld took the technology that they had, they didn’t earn anything to get it. The result is you’ve got these crazy people running around with guns and it’s bedlam, but still, they recognize that they do have to feed people, there has to be some measure of control. Netan is dancing on that line.

Eric Steinberg:
David, you hit on something really important and I think I was trying in some way, without knowing it, to embody that in a sense that my concept of Netan. This part I was conscious, but I just assumed essentially, I’m not gonna get political here, but I have to, this is the time we’re in where we’re in a war and you fire off a few missiles and it becomes easier and easier to use that force in a way that you know is the thing that gives you legitimacy.

David Read:
I don’t need to listen. I’ll just, “Where’s my missiles?”

Eric Steinberg:
“I know this works and I know I’m good at it, I’m the dude.” He almost assumed that control and that legitimacy just by virtue of being the one willing to kill this guy, to blow that ship up, to take the cargo, essentially to say, “This is how it’s gonna be,” and that’s the only line that often is separating a collective and tyranny of evil men. We see that now, of course, in our lives, but I think that was something interesting that was reflected in that storyline. Like you say, there’s a masking. It’s really just a brutal, greedy effort and it’s cloaked in the legitimacy of an alliance and of order and a kind of logic. When really, it’s a smash and grab, albeit an organized one. It’s motivated by the same things.

David Read:
One of the things that I loved about Stargate Universe is that it expanded the story of the Lucian Alliance through Mike Dopud who played a character by the name of Varro. I always thought it was just ridiculous that they didn’t just give him the same character, just give him Odai Ventrell. They could have easily done that from Season 10. A great character. I loved “Bounty,” but he talks about the fact that, “Look, we grew up in the slums, we had nothing. The Lucian Alliance gave us something, gave us a North Star that we could all at least face in the same direction and start getting our butts in gear.” There was nothing left when the Goa’uld fell. I was working on Stargate Worlds, the video game, as a member of the marketing team back in 2007 and 2008. We were depicting Lucia, the planet, and it was slums. I’ll send you images of Lucia. We designed the planet and it’s dirty and it’s polluted and it’s congested and it’s cornfields, that’s all. These people had nothing left so they had nothing left to lose when they went out further into the galaxy. When you give a person the ability to bombard a city from orbit, all bets are off.

Eric Steinberg:
I think you’re absolutely right. I’m not gonna bring it into the modern world anymore but I would love to see those images.

David Read:
It’s fun to play. I will [send them].

Eric Steinberg:
I love it because I tried to conceptualize that. As a young actor, you’re taught how to make everything specific in your mind and the more it becomes a specific image. When I was doing this show, I really relied on everybody there and everything else to give me that legitimacy because I was thinking things that were so far afield. They may or may not have had any bearing to the rest of the storyline that led up to me being involved. Again, you put yourself in the hands of the people you’re working with and they’ll give you that legitimacy and that connection. A lot of us actors, when we’re starting, you get used to working with people who have been there a while. You’re the guy in for a week, two weeks, that’s it, and you’re out. They’re used to working with people like that. There’s a real ease at coming together and “we’re not gonna get bogged down. We got this here and it’s gonna move.” Everything’s moving and the people involved are moving and changing and so you learn to swing with it. I know that I really benefited from the actors on the cast because they were great at that. You just step right in and you’re playing together. It’s not, “Oh, who’s this new guy? Let me get to know him.” Or, “Well, how are we gonna do this scene?” They were all old hands at coming in with another working actor. “Here we go.”

David Read:
They’ve been doing this forever at this point. They know these characters inside and out like old leather.

Eric Steinberg:
It’s true. I have to say, this is not part of the story, but this is part of the production. This was the first time I’d ever been in Vancouver. I was welcomed up there and I couldn’t believe the city. I couldn’t believe how kind people were to me.

David Read:
It’s a great town.

Eric Steinberg:
There was this one great time, too. They overbooked the hotel we were in.

David Read:
The Solomar [Sutton Palace]

Eric Steinberg:
They had to keep me, by contract, in a hotel. They had to keep me in the area. The only hotel that was in the area that was close was the Four Seasons so they had to put me up at the Four Seasons. Little things, there was such a delight to so much of what was happening to me. As a young actor, I’m there, I’m delighted. Overall, in every way, I was delighted; by the city, by the staff, they treated me great. The costumes, the makeup, the production, the camera crew was spot on. Everybody… Great experience. Great experience for an actor to go there in a new city, be enchanted by everybody. Also, be able to play in these broad, dramatic strokes.

David Read:
It’s off the top.

Eric Steinberg:
It was a great experience for me. It holds a special place in my heart to this day. I actually even have a couple of friends in Vancouver still to this day, from those experiences. I’m incredibly grateful. I know this is off topic. This is meta stuff.

David Read:
No, this is all of the piece. We’re here for the production stuff as well. Kyle Brooks wants to know, “What did you look forward to the most, your favorite aspect of coming back to this show time and again? What ultimately became your favorite thing?”

Eric Steinberg:
My favorite thing, to be honest, was the character and the feel of what I got to do. I loved the idea that I got to toy with being that guy, in my view, the hero. But of course, in the view of the piece, clearly a villain. I liked him because he’s more interesting than the good guys.

David Read:
He’s suave.

Eric Steinberg:
That was the best part. For an actor, I could be in Bakersfield. It doesn’t matter to me. If I get to play something interesting with those edges and I get to play with great people, that’s all I need. Then the fact that it’s in this genre, which allows me to play with more colors than we usually can, ’cause we’re in another world and there’s this whole other universe. It’s those things and then everything else on top of that is gravy. The great seafood up there, the great people and how Canadians are some of the nicest people I’ve ever met in my life; all of this adds to the joy of going to work. You’re just happy to go to work. Yet, I’m happy when I get a job in the Valley or I’m doing a show, Young and the Restless. It doesn’t matter. I’m happy as an actor to do it but this was a confluence of great things. Great role, great people, great city. Delightful. Literally, there were no problems. There was no, “Oh, I wish this was this.” There was none of that, ever.

David Read:
Before you got the role, did they indicate at that point to you that this could be recurring? One of the themes on Dial the Gate very much has been – I’ve been lucky enough to talk with a number of folks at this stage – a lot of the actors say that they’re not baiting them specifically, but they’re basically saying, this could be recurring. Did they give you that indication up front that this was not going to be likely a one-off or that it was going to be likely a one-off? Where did that fall for you in terms of the potential? “Look, if you’re the top dog here, this is a potential returning antagonist in terms of this group of people.” They’re going to have to explain you away somehow if you’re not there.

Eric Steinberg:
Yes, that’s right, exactly right. It’s so funny. I’m not sure behind the scenes how much of it was a particular truth that they were baiting or whatever. As an actor, you’re always trying to get better to do more. Often, your representatives, your agents might say, “Look, Eric’s just got off this. He’s doing this. This part is only a few scenes.” “Really, you can’t give him something more?” They’re like, “OK, listen, this could be a big part.” You never know. A lot of people say that and you never know whether they’re actually serious or they’re baiting you and it’s a one-shot deal. People try to hire you for a co-starring kind of role, smaller role say, “Look, make it a guest star. We’ll give him one more scene. We’ll call it a guest star. You get paid more and then you’ll do it.” Then you’re like, “OK, fine. We’ll cover it.” In this case, it was one of those situations where I, of course, am like, “I pray that it’s serious, this really could be a guest. I really hope they bring this guy. I hope it’s recurring, but I don’t know. They could just be using me. But at the same time, this is interesting. This would be fun. Yes, let’s do it and if it’s not recurring, it’s not recurring. OK, you know what? It’ll still be a great experience.” I didn’t know whether it was going to be something. I just thought, “OK, let’s go up and let’s do the best we can do and if they don’t like it, they don’t like it.”

David Read:
Done the best you could.

Eric Steinberg:
They’ll kill him off or whatever.

David Read:
You’ve done your part. You stood up straight and said, “Yeah, this was my take on this.” They didn’t like it? Oh well!

Eric Steinberg:
I knew my worth. I hit the mark. That’s the attitude you have to have in this business always anyway because they’ll just fire you. Luckily, the production crew turned out to be not cutthroat, but incredibly warm and kind and they gave me that chance. But at the time, I didn’t know whether it was going to come. Again, back to how they structured the entirety of the piece, they were very smart, because they began to do this. There’s a funny story. I’d done some stage work with another actor, Tony Amendola. He’s a great guy. We did some work for the Taper, the Mark Taper Forum in LA, and there are a number of people like that. I remember we talked about this once, years later, and it was great because I felt a little bit, “Well, I guess I’m doing all right.” He was saying, “That was my approach, too. You never know what you’re going into. You bring the fullness of everything you can bring and you let the chips fall where they may.” In my case, it worked out well, but I’m sure that had I not been able to be as effective in the beginning, they would find some other way to clip that story, kill him off and bring somebody to usurp him, which would have worked as well. You hope they’re telling the truth when they say, “We might stretch this out.” But you never really know until they do. It’s a contractual kind of a leverage thing. I was lucky. Very lucky.

David Read:
If they don’t feel that you’re working, they’re not going to bring you back, but they clearly did. There are situations that I know of personally, where your successors, in some cases, they were… I’m gonna shut my mouth right now. If you’re not happy with a performance, you build structures into the story so that you can replace them later, I will just say that. I completely missed this one. How aware were you of Stargate before, Netan? Had you seen the show? You’re clearly a sci-fi fan.

Eric Steinberg:
I’m a sci-fi fan. I’d seen the show. I’d seen the first film as well and it’s interesting because the literal physical concept of the gate is such a fascinating way to enter into it. I know it’s the title, obviously, but the crux of the fascination with entering into the world, literally and then metaphorically. That’s what first got me when I saw that and I saw the gate; the ability, that entryway into other universes, other worlds, other times, that grabbed me immediately. Of course, when they were gonna do the show, that, too, was incredibly enticing. Of course, I hoped that I would get to enter into these gates, but my character never did.

David Read:
No, he flew around ships.

Eric Steinberg:
That was the first thing that got to me. I also loved, like I do with a lot of sci-fi and television, I love the fact that when you’re showing different species of aliens, when you’re showing different people and different cultures coming together, there’s a looseness to it on TV. You’re allowed a little bit more latitude. Especially nowadays, the trend has gotten a little more colorful, a little more, I guess Guardians of the Galaxy.

David Read:
Very bright.

Eric Steinberg:
With more humor and more camp. Back then, that was reserved for the television side. We talk about original Star Trek; there’s a sense of seriousness, but there’s also a sense of joy to it, a sense of whimsy at times too.

David Read:
That’s the word.

Eric Steinberg:
There was that on Stargate too. You could see it very clearly with some of the regulars, some of the leads played very much on the edge of the humor constantly. I found that delightful and I found it also very unique. Even when I did other shows, I remember I did an episode of an old sci-fi show, Babylon 5. It was a fascinating concept and a fascinating thing to do the show, because it was very low budget. It was all put together very quickly. It was the same kind of sense.

David Read:
But it was taken very seriously.

Eric Steinberg:
Yes, taken very seriously and with some great actors. Oh my God, I arrived on set at Babylon 5 and the guy I was doing my scenes with was an old British actor named Aubrey Morris. He was in Stanley Kubrick movies, this guy. He played memorable parts in Clockwork Orange. There I am, a young actor working on Babylon 5 with scenes with this guy. So, there was a sense in Stargate of the seriousness of the weight of the story, but there’s also that slight sense of otherworldliness, of camp, of occasional humor. I personally love that and I find that incredibly unique. I think it preceded the Marvel-ish way of doing some over-the-top fun stuff, meta-commentary and humor inserted into the fantasy.

David Read:
There’s so much going on on so many levels, to the point where in many cases they’re almost winking directly at the audience, but they’re not. That was Richard Dean Anderson; he set that standard from the beginning and the writing and everything else. Those two feathered together perfectly. Are you tight for time, or are we good?

Eric Steinberg:
No, you’re fine.

David Read:
OK.

Eric Steinberg:
Yeah, we’re fine.

David Read:
I wanna be respectful of your time, but at the same time, I have a lot more stuff to ask.

Eric Steinberg:
No, please do.

David Read:
I wanna step aside for a second and ask about Star Trek First Contact, finally being on the franchise that you loved, in an intense part of the movie. I remember sitting in the theater, not to date myself, but I was I was 13, and man, the heebie-jeebies. Frakes did a great job. That was one of the scariest theatrical experiences I ever had. I grew up with the Borg and I’m sitting there going, “Man part of this sucks. This is intense.” What was it like playing Paul?

Eric Steinberg:
What a prince of a guy. Oh, my Lord. Thank you for asking about that. That was such a great thing. Like you say, I was a huge fan so to be involved was a joy. Frakes was a prince of a guy. Just to give you an idea, one day I’m talking with Frakes and Patrick Stewart, and of course, just to be around Patrick Stewart who is known as a Shakespearean guy.

David Read:
Jean-Luc Picard.

Eric Steinberg:
I was overwhelmed. I’ll tell you another story about Patrick Stewart. Years later, I’m doing a play in San Francisco. My parents come to see me, we’re off to dinner at a lovely fancy place. Patrick Stewart walks in and my mom and dad, knowing him from RSC, are like, “Oh, it’s Patrick Stewart.” I’m like, “Oh my God. I can’t… I shouldn’t do this, but I’m gonna do this. It might be my only chance.” I foolishly walk over to his table, and I said…

David Read:
Is he eating?

Eric Steinberg:
“Mr. Stewart, I… I’m sorry.”

David Read:
He doesn’t like to be disturbed while he’s eating.

Eric Steinberg:
I know and I was very nervous, but I knew I might not ever have the ability, the cachet in front of my parents. I had to see. I go over to him, “Mr. Stewart, I’m so sorry to bother you. Listen, I worked with you a brief time a little while ago in Los Angeles on the First Contact thing.” He said, “Oh, of course.” “I’m Eric Steinberg.” “Oh, of course, Eric. Yes, indeed.” I said, “It’s so wonderful to see you. I never got to thank you and my parents are there. They’re big fans. They’d seen the Royal Shakespeare.” He said, “Of course I’ll come say hello to your parents.” He came right over across the restaurant to my parents. “Mr. and Mrs. Steinberg. To work with your son was a joy. Incredibly professional, a delight. I’m so proud. You must be so proud.” He made me look like a king. My parents were aghast, I was aghast and I got a tear in my eye, thinking about it now. Again, like great actors do, he lends you your legitimacy. He lends you your power. He didn’t have to do any of that. Here’s the thing, when I was on the set with them, I had a couple of days, we’re shooting this thing. They know I’m a young actor and we’re talking together about the scene and Jonathan Frakes goes, “Well, how long do we have Eric for?” to the assistant director. The assistant director’s like, “Oh, we got him this week.” He’s like, “OK, he gets Borg’d. We could easily use him the next week for the other Borg scenes.” The other guy’s like, “We can.”

David Read:
Show some continuity. We don’t see him in the Jefferies tube. I’m assuming that it’s scripted that it just zooms in on her and that’s it.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s it. That’s right. The thing about it was, they were even doing me a favor technically. They understood that another week of work on a Paramount set at full union wages, for a young actor like me, that means a lot. They did that for me, not just for their benefit, but they were extending themselves. My role, my gig was gonna end and they were like, “Put him on for another week. Let’s put him on.” I was so grateful and moved. Everybody I worked with, oh my God, I had such a good time working with the Borg Queen, I can’t remember her name.

David Read:
Alice Krige.

Eric Steinberg:
Alice Krige, that’s it. She was brilliant and a wonderful actress too. I actually remained friends with Marnie, the girl who was in the tube with me, for many years. She’s a delight too. It was a joy to be on the set. It was a joy to be on Paramount lot at the time, it was a joy to be involved in Star Trek, in any respect.

David Read:
To be assimilated, man.

Eric Steinberg:
It was a joy.

David Read:
That is so cool.

Eric Steinberg:
I went back and I did their show, but I was in full kit, full makeup as an alien.

David Read:
Give us the Equinox.

Eric Steinberg:
I had a grant

David Read:
Dude, it’s my bread and butter, I’m telling you. Guys, the flying fish want you dead.

Eric Steinberg:
I love that too. That’s right. The funny thing is, when I played that role, I was disappointed almost more so not being able to go back. Even though you get to do the makeup and the whole thing, it’s actually a joy to be at work and not even think about what you look like; not to be worried or self-conscious at all.

David Read:
You are gone.

Eric Steinberg:
You’re completely transformed and that is so freeing. You just want to keep working that way because you don’t have to worry about looking at playback, “Oh, how do I look? Oh, I didn’t look good.” You’re not thinking about that at all. You’re just thinking about your role, your intentions, what’s happening. Despite what we all say, even though I’ve been doing this for a while, I still don’t look at things because I hate to be self-conscious. You can always think, “Oh, I should look better. Why don’t I look…” To be completely free of that is a glorious thing.

David Read:
Is that the first time you’d had a head cast?

Eric Steinberg:
First time, yeah.

David Read:
Can you tell us about that whole process?

Eric Steinberg:
I’d been in different makeups before, but that was the first time.

David Read:
What was that like? Michael Westmore?

Eric Steinberg:
It was amazing.

David Read:
I’ve heard amazing stories.

Eric Steinberg:
These guys were so legendary. What was amazing is I didn’t really know how legendary until I got there. I didn’t realize the reputation that they had throughout the entire industry, certainly in the genre. Obviously, there’s a reverence to the work they’ve done all the way back. Once you get there and you see the pictures and you see the history and you start talking to people, you realize you’re in the presence of real legends, real industry royalty. Not just for those of us who love sci-fi, but everybody in the industry knows who these guys are. Whether you do science fiction or not, everybody knows them.

David Read:
They’re the gold standard.

Eric Steinberg:
They’re awarded often. It was a joy in a way. Here’s this other side: physically disciplined, be disciplined. You get there at 5:00 in the morning or whatever it is to put all this stuff on. Calm yourself, get in a Zen state. Just what’s necessary and slowly let them apply, let them do their work. While you’re doing that, it’s very meditative. You’re closing your world a little bit closer and you focus in. In a way it’s a cool meditative exercise so by the time you step on set, there’s no thought, you’re already somebody else in every way. You’re moving different, you’re thinking different, you’ve entered the world. That makeup stuff is, that entire process is arduous, but incredibly helpful too, in a craft way.

David Read:
Very much. My problem would be the heat. I’ve put on those form-fitting skullcaps that the Jaffa wear and when one is on, I am dripping sweat. If I’m walking around working, which I was when I was doing this – we sold the props – I couldn’t, I was like, “Get this thing off. I’m done.” You’re wearing it for the full day.

Eric Steinberg:
Yeah, full day. It’s tough. Frankly, the Borg thing was more difficult, going to the bathroom becomes an ordeal. So, that was more difficult. Like I say, it’s a great exercise in discipline. You have to force your body and your mind into a place where you can endure that. At first, it’s hard, but it gets better, as you can imagine. It gets better quickly. I love that you have the torture implement in the back there. I forget what it’s called.

David Read:
Just a second here.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s so great that you have that. I recognized it immediately.

David Read:
It’s one of the few things that didn’t get a name. It’s a Goa’uld torture stick. Most of the Gould devices had their own name, but this one is actually from Stargate Continuum. I don’t usually bring it to the foreground very much and you absolutely know all about this, so this is a good point for us to make.

Eric Steinberg:
I do. I love it. I saw it there, I was like, “Yeah, it’s familiar.” So great.

David Read:
The craftsmanship of production. They did such a good job and the stuff has lasted for years.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s amazing.

David Read:
It’s an extraordinary production and it’s coming back. What do you think?

Eric Steinberg:
That’s amazing to me. Look, it’s hard for me to judge without being personally affected by it.

David Read:
Sure, you’re part of it.

Eric Steinberg:
Like everybody in our society, I’m getting a little tired of regenerating things from my past, my childhood. We all are, ’cause it seems like there’s a glut of it. But for this, I absolutely love it, because I feel like it would benefit greatly from how easy it is now to generate these worlds and these effects, how much more sophisticated it is. The possibilities are enormous so, I would love to see it. I’d also love to see what they do with the characters, how they’re gonna bring these people back, how far they’re gonna divert from the original structure.

David Read:
It’s a universe that doesn’t shackle them to the circumstances of that world. What are they gonna do next? They can take it in different ways.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s right. I’m sure they will, because they’ll be aware of the pratfalls of rebooting something in a way that…insult is the wrong word, but demeans the past. You’ve gotta go forward in a way that holds some reverence to the source material. You’ve gotta have some respect. I think that’s one of the things that people haven’t liked about a lot of the sequels and reboots of many of the science-fiction stuff. A lot of the audience felt like there wasn’t a lot of respect for the traditions.

David Read:
Reverence.

Eric Steinberg:
Especially with Star Trek. I know a lot of people who felt like the Star Trek they were given, despite being so much more sophisticated with effects and technologically…

David Read:
It’s beautiful.

Eric Steinberg:
Incredibly extraordinary, like a rollercoaster, but at the same time, they felt it lost some of the noble purpose and the storytelling of the original and the feel of that. I guess that’s the best way to put it, the purposefulness of the original, that legacy.

David Read:
There is a decorum to Star Trek that it tonally has. Rick Berman made the comment that they’re saying high-five in the 32nd century. The language is no longer Shakespearean and sophisticated anymore, to a large degree. Audience members respond to that. Some like it, some don’t like it. What are you gonna do? That’s the art. That’s just the process.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s exactly right. Well, first, two questions. First, what do you see or are looking forward to in the new iteration? And two, what for you is a fantasy or science-fiction story that they’ve been able to redo in a proper way, or in a way that does not denigrate the originals?

David Read:
Satisfy their expectations?

Eric Steinberg:
Like a new Blade Runner, where does that land for you in the spectrum?

David Read:
2049 is absolutely up there. So, the fact of the matter is that with all of these reboots and relaunches, how many of those can you think of that behind the scenes had the participation of the original people who created it? I’m having trouble arriving at that answer. So, when Martin Gero was staring back at me on a Zoom call and they said that they were bringing it back, I knew that it was gonna be OK. Martin is involved and Brad Wright and Joseph Mallozzi are consulting producers. My one concern was that, if they were to bring it back, tonally or continuity wise, it would not be the same and immediately those concerns were laid to rest. In subsequent conversations that I have had since behind the scenes, in terms of the information that I have gleaned, what I will say is that that assuredness, that tonally and with respect to what’s come before, everything is gonna be respected and cared for and maintained and that it’s still gonna feel like the shows that we had before. None of that’s changed, it’s only been more reinforced. I think that that’s rock solid. In terms of a modern take, I think that Blade Runner is an excellent example. I am a huge fan of Andor from Star Wars. Star Wars has done some hits and misses. They’ve proven that if you have the right story and the right writer/director, you can pull pretty much anything off. I think the broader point that I’m trying to get to is, if you’re gonna bring something back, don’t Trojan horse it to share exclusively what it is that you want to share, while disregarding the spirit of what came before. Don’t wear the IP like a skin suit. Appreciate the whole audience, not just the half that agrees with you on your opinions.

Eric Steinberg:
I think that you mentioning Andor is spot on too, because for me, that’s been the most effective iteration as well, because it allows room to breathe, to meditate.

David Read:
That’s right.

Eric Steinberg:
It doesn’t have to be a rollercoaster, a sight-and-sound joy.

David Read:
It’s totally darker than any Star Wars before it, completely different that way.

Eric Steinberg:
Completely darker. The darkness of it gives it weight, it gives it real gravity. Blade Runner, as gorgeous as it was, also allowed room to breathe and be silent, which gives things meaning. When I look back on things I’ve watched in the past decades or so that still stick with me, one of the things is, I don’t know if you’ve seen There Will Be Blood.

David Read:
I did.

Eric Steinberg:
Paul Thomas Anderson.

David Read:
Daniel Day-Lewis?

Eric Steinberg:
Just a brilliant film.

David Read:
There wasn’t very much blood. They just got a little bit in the bowling alley at the end. I was disappointed that there wasn’t more blood.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s right.

David Read:
Bro, it’s not enough blood. I’m sorry.

Eric Steinberg:
Unless of course it’s oil.

David Read:
That’s what I was going for. I tuned in for blood. Damn.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s right. I got none, I got a tiny thimbleful. Unless of course we talk poetically and the blood is the oil. Then maybe it’s, “OK, this is a metaphorical thing.” The thing I bring up about that is, I remember that film so much. I remember in the beginning of the film, they have this dissonant sound. It’s not really a soundtrack, it’s Johnny Greenwood, I think, from Radiohead, and he gives this soundscape and there’s no talking for the first six, eight minutes of the film. It’s just sound, him alone breathing, and then he breaks his leg. That silence and that space, we don’t have to fill this in. You’re gonna sit and you’re gonna watch and it gives everything so much meaning and importance. Without saying a word, you know there’s something very primal going to happen, or the stakes are enormous in this moment, without anybody telling you, exposition or anything. I think when you look at all these pieces that we’re talking about, all the pieces that take the moment, take the freedom, have the confidence to do a little of that, we’re just gonna let this sit with you, it makes everything deeper. It makes it more meaningful. With Stargate, I’m so happy to hear that the original maestros will be helping direct it as a ship; that means everything. I hope they also allow that modern sense of gravity to weigh in, even if they go for the humor in place.

David Read:
No, it must be. That’s right. It must be relevant in a modern way. It can’t be exactly what came before. The question is striking a balance.

Eric Steinberg:
I’m not disparaging Marvel at all, that’s not how I feel, but there’s a certain kind of “we need to have these quirky self-referential jokes in almost every other scene” and not everybody has to do humor that way.

David Read:
I think it’s overdone.

Eric Steinberg:
That seems to be a very contemporary mode of humor but I feel you could do it better in different ways. There was an English actress on Stargate, the dark-haired woman. I never got to work with her.

David Read:
You’re talking about Claudia Black?

Eric Steinberg:
Dark, curly… Yes.

David Read:
Vala Mal Doran?

Eric Steinberg:
Yeah.

David Read:
She was Australian.

Eric Steinberg:
The Australian, OK. It was really interesting to me because she had a different sense of going with the humor of it as well. Everybody had their own style of playing with it and I love the individuality of that. I feel like, like I said before, that was almost a precursor of the kind of very, very conscious, self-conscious jokes nowadays. So, I’d love to see where they take it. I’m looking forward to seeing what tapestry they create.

David Read:
Absolutely. Humor is definitely gonna be a big component of it, I know that. Vala would fit right into Guardians of the Galaxy, absolutely. I’ve got a few more fan questions for you if you don’t mind.

Eric Steinberg:
Sure.

David Read:
Lockwatcher, “You portrayed Agent Davis in 24 and survived. How was it working on that series?”

Eric Steinberg:
That was really cool and it meant something to me personally. I loved it because it was fun to get kitted out and have all the gear. But really, I got to work with Julian, who, rest his soul, passed away in the mountains of Southern California.

David Read:
Julian Sands.

Eric Steinberg:
When he was hiking and he got caught in a storm. Rest in peace. When I was a young kid, my parents took me to see A Room with a View, a great film by Merchant Ivory. That was also the start of Helena Bonham Carter’s career. Daniel Day-Lewis was in that movie as a young man. That movie had a great impact on me because it was so romantic and beautiful and of course, the brilliant acting in every respect. Denholm Elliott is the old guy that’s the father figure for Julian. When I came to work, I didn’t really know what was going on, and Julian Sands is there and I’m guarding him. I was younger, so I definitely did the fanboy thing. I was like, “Man, listen, I’m sorry to be bothering you, but when I was a kid, my folks took me to see you in that movie and I still love that movie. I loved your performance in it. It was a power that…” I was gushing while he was like, “Oh.” He was very, very kind. We cut to the last day, I’m leaving the parking lot of the studio and I see him coming off set or his trailer, going to the next thing and I yell out, “Julian, great working with you. See you again sometime. Thanks.” He looks back at me, he says, “Eric.” He yells across the parking lot, “Beauty! Truth! Beauty!” Which is what he says in A Room with a View. He’s out in the field somewhere yelling and he sees the beauty of Italy and he yells out, “Beauty! Truth!” I never asked him to do it, I never mentioned it, but he knew I loved that film and he knew that I would know, so it was this beautiful little moment. I had a great time working on that show. I would have loved to work even more if I would’ve been in one of their team, but that moment being acknowledged by Julian was so sweet and I still think about that.

David Read:
And that he remembered from earlier.

Eric Steinberg:
When he died, I was very…

David Read:
We were devastated. That’s one of those interviews that I never got to have. He was so effective as Doci in those last couple of years on the show.

Eric Steinberg:
He’s just a great actor.

David Read:
We lost someone special.

Eric Steinberg:
He was a great actor.

David Read:
Absolutely.

Eric Steinberg:
You hate that. It’s never for a good reason, but for that kind of an accident, it’s just a bitter thing.

David Read:
I know. Exactly. Same thing with Cliff Simon.

Eric Steinberg:
Not that you would feel good if the guy was a jerk, but he was a prince of a guy.

David Read:
That’s right. It’s just worse because of it. SaraBeamie, we’ve been talking about villains. “Who from fiction is your favorite villain?” That’s an interesting question.

Eric Steinberg:
That is an interesting question. I was reading something the other day, but I think one of the best villains I’ve seen on film recently is, from the Coen brothers, Anton Chigurh.

David Read:
Oh. My. God. I was picturing Anton Chigurh in my mind right now. Call it. I was thinking of him.

Eric Steinberg:
So, you know who exactly.

David Read:
I was going to give him as soon as you gave yours. Wow, Eric.

Eric Steinberg:
There you go.

David Read:
Have you read the book?

Eric Steinberg:
Yeah. See, we’re in line here.

David Read:
Extraordinary. There is no more terrifying character.

Eric Steinberg:
Genius, the way he played it, the way the Coen brothers framed it, which is really, again, what gives the power to him. The actor who played with him in that scene in the gas station was just as great an actor as he was and was just as vital for making that one of the great scenes I’ve seen, basically. That’s one of my favorites that I’ve watched. One of the favorite villains that I never got to play yet, but I’m hoping to play one day, is Iago in Othello. I would love to play Iago just because he’s such a villain and Shakespeare is so brutally open with it. “I hate the Moor.” But how do you play that and not play a villain? You play a hero, that’s the key. I know Patrick Stewart, as we talked about, he played very famous versions of Iago. I never got to see them, but I’ve read about them, so I would love to play that.

David Read:
You’ve gotta eat it up, otherwise it’ll just sink.

Eric Steinberg:
A lot of times in TV, and I guess film too, the villain is more interesting all the time because the lead character cannot be too divergent. They have to be somewhat milquetoast, somewhat mainstream, because they’re your vessel. They’re your conduit into the thing. They can’t be so interesting or dark or strange. The villain often is written more interestingly, more mysteriously. Those gaps are what allow you to give it something confusing, hopefully, for the audience. Something like Chigurh. “What happened? Where does this come from?”

David Read:
He’s a machine. There’s no soul anymore. He’s just a device and he’s crazy. He thinks that he wields fate.

Eric Steinberg:
He wields fate, but what I love about it is, it’s like in Hamlet, when they say he is mad. That’s his madness, but yet there is method to it.

David Read:
He’s got his code.

Eric Steinberg:
He has a code. I love when he laughs. His victim is like, “You don’t have to do this.” He’s like, “Ha.” The first time you see him laugh, he’s like, “People always say that.”

David Read:
Javier Bardem is brilliant.

Eric Steinberg:
He’s thought of it. He’s worked it out.

David Read:
No, there is something attractive about, if you look at an Anton Chigurh or a Walter White.

Eric Steinberg:
Walter White is a great one.

David Read:
These kinds of folks. We are drawn to competent people, even if something that they do is terrible. If they’re very good at it, there’s something alluring about it that’s interesting to watch, at least for a couple of hours.

Eric Steinberg:
Yes, there’s no question about it. What is that saying? There’s a saying that talent is the greatest aphrodisiac. I feel like that’s true. What you’re saying is very true. When that person is that proficient, even as a character in what they do, you’re immediately fascinated by their artistry, by how good they are at killing people, at running a drug syndicate.

David Read:
He finally admits to Skyler in the last episode, “I liked it. I was good at it.” As audience members we’re going, “Yep, you’re gonna pay, but yep, that’s true.”

Eric Steinberg:
One last thing about the villains. I don’t want to leave out the comic villains, because they were a big part of me growing up. I grew up watching some of the great comic villains. I remember so well, especially something like Mel Brooks, the villains in that. The great actress, what’s her name, who played Van Braun [Frau Blücher], the woman who runs the castle. She passed away not long ago. She’s one of the great geniuses. She worked with Mel Brooks so many times.

David Read:
Stana Katic?

Eric Steinberg:
No.

David Read:
Van Braun, Mel Brooks. Madeline Kahn?

Eric Steinberg:
In Young Frankenstein. No, she’s great too, though. I love Madeline Kahn. She’s a genius too. Gone too soon.

David Read:
Who ran the castle in Young Frankenstein?

Eric Steinberg:
Yes.

David Read:
Let’s get it right.

Eric Steinberg:
What’s her name? It’s a mental breakdown.

David Read:
Frau Blücher, played by Cloris Leachman.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s it. Cloris Leachman. The great Cloris Leachman, who was also a villain in High Anxiety. A lot of comic villains, Harvey Korman in Blazing Saddles was outrageous to me. Even in Monty Python, the villains were brilliant. I don’t know whether I’m attracted by nature to villains, whether it’s comic or the most horrific, but they’re more interesting to me than the moral side of things.

David Read:
I am thrilled that you bring this up, because you got to play against a little bit of that in Stargate with the Oranians, Tenat and Jup; these bumbling buffoons with the wildest masks on. I think Netan kills one of them. I can’t remember exactly the circumstances, but these idiots who are working under you, you can’t get anything done. “Damn you, Cam Mitchell.”

Eric Steinberg:
I felt terrible about it, because it was so cold. Even my men, I was cruel to the guys I was working with as well and that felt bad too. When I re-watched the first episode it was terrible. The guy gets beaten and I’m like, “Idiot.” I remember the actor was great too.

David Read:
Morris Chapdelaine.

Eric Steinberg:
He was a really nice guy and he was from Vancouver. It was pretty funny. I have to say, I’m glad I didn’t do it, but I easily could have ventured into the almost maniacal comic bad guy when abusing those guys. I’m glad I didn’t fully go there. I remember when I was dealing with the alien, there was some line that I was reminded of when I watched it. I said, “You are the most pathetic example of whatever you are,” or something like that. That was pretty hilarious.

David Read:
Bigotry does exist in space.

Eric Steinberg:
The poor guy was written into this, but he had to subjugate and be abused by everybody in that episode. It was sad. It was funny as well.

David Read:
For sure. You have to have characters like that who have the levity. I think that you had one of the trickiest roles by how much do I dial it up or keep it where it is? Recognizing the fact that I have to make this believable; this character has to have a desire to maintain his station, so he’s aware of the politics of the men around him. He can’t just beat and abuse. They’ll kill him in his sleep. There has to be a certain amount of respect while he also chews on his guys every now and then. It’s like, “Guys, I’m sorry, but you’re an idiot. You’re gonna have to pay for this one.” Mind blowing.

Eric Steinberg:
No, it’s so true. It’s such a joy to play those roles in this space where you’re given that freedom because it’s a fantasy. Because it’s science fiction, there’s a little more room. I remember we had a scene in one of the episodes where I killed one of the guys at the table.

David Read:
As you do.

Eric Steinberg:
He was a great actor and he had a great face. This guy was brilliant. Great voice, great face. We did that scene a number of times and I remember they used a take that I didn’t quite like. But, the joy of being at a table with all those actors and being able to inject that kind of brutality in the moment and play with what that does, it’s the joy of the job. It’s the joy of what we do, getting to embody those extreme moments.

David Read:
That you wouldn’t be able to do in real life.

Eric Steinberg:
Ah. No.

David Read:
Exactly.

Eric Steinberg:
No. Not for long.

David Read:
Exactly. You got one good one in you and then that’s it, then it’s over. I got a couple more questions.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s great.

David Read:
Are we OK?

Eric Steinberg:
That’s great.

David Read:
Are we good?

Eric Steinberg:
Yeah. Sure.

David Read:
Perfect. CH0P.L0-7: “What was it like working with Ben Browder and Christopher Judge?” Cameron Mitchell and Teal’c.

Eric Steinberg:
Oh my God, it was great. Both of them, they were all incredibly adept and used to their role, so there was no need to question or whatever. We basically just slipped right in. I loved working with Teal’c as well in a different way, because I really admired what he was doing with his character. He was so committed to the stillness and the control; that gives him so much power. Working with him was awesome. Working with all of them was awesome. I loved working with the lieutenant commander as well because he was totally different. He had that great quirky cocksure approach.

David Read:
Anateo?

Eric Steinberg:
Yes,

David Read:
Rudolph Martin.

Eric Steinberg:
What was interesting for me was the device of that alien ability to touch, have contact with something and have them believe or see what they think they’re seeing. It as a fascinating device.

David Read:
You’re talking about Ben Browder, Cameron Mitchell, yes.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s right. The ring thing. That was a really cool way of addressing that scene. It allows for so much to happen that couldn’t happen, but just that one device, that kind of fantastical turn and the guy appears to be who is familiar to you.

David Read:
And we move on.

Eric Steinberg:
It’s amazing and I love doing those scenes. Most of all, I love working with Teal’c because his stillness, his power was great to play against. Of course, when you’re facing an actor like that, you wanna be as powerful, but you just can’t with him. You have to take a different approach and you have to give in. His stillness is going to mean more than yours, so you’ve gotta come at it a different way. In general, I was incredibly pleased and honored to work with them and to learn from them, because I did learn from them. Watching professionals like that who’ve been doing it for a while on a show, when you’re a journeyman actor and you come to it, you’re taking away lessons too. All of these people are more schooled and more aware at this process than you. It was beautiful for me to work with them and they were kind as well; they were really kind. There’s no attitude, there’s no rank pulled. There is sometimes on sets: people get personal and this and that, but not there. I don’t know if that’s a Canadian thing. Everybody I met in Canada was kind.

David Read:
It’s a big working-class Canadian thing for sure. Mike Dopud is one of my favorite people and he kills you off screen, supposedly. One of my frustrations is, let us see it or not. Have him walk out or have him shoot him. Especially in Seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1, they really were getting to the point where, “And he pulls up his weapon, and we cut to black.” It’s like, “All right, I guess they could come back.” I’m doing the Omnipedia and I’m writing all these entries down for the encyclopedia. It’s like, “OK, I can’t mark him as dead because we didn’t see it.” He could still be out there somewhere, but he’s probably dead.

Eric Steinberg:
See? Isn’t that a science fiction…

David Read:
It sure is.

Eric Steinberg:
Isn’t that a science-fiction trope?

David Read:
But you could bring him back anyway.

Eric Steinberg:
If you don’t see it.

David Read:
You can find any reason to bring him back if you really want someone back. When you got to that in the script, when you were reading it the first time, what was your thought? “Well, it’s been a good run,” or, “Nope, it doesn’t say undead?” What was your takeaway?

Eric Steinberg:
It was at a time in my career where literally 80% of the roles I got, I die. In a way, that’s a function of being a type of actor or of a certain kind of typecasting where you’re put in certain kinds of roles where you gotta be the one who gets punished. You’re getting that notion of being the guy. I read it and I’m disappointed, of course, but there’s no way that I wasn’t thinking, just like you said, “Well, what is there to complain about? What a damn good run. What a good time I’ve had working with these people.” There was no bad experience I had, I couldn’t feel too disappointed. Although disappointed enough that I could write some letters or some emails and, “Yes, you guys are doing this. You’re in need of some nefarious types.”

David Read:
You’re gonna need some callbacks.

Eric Steinberg:
There can always be somebody on the outskirts. Keep something for nostalgia’s sake.

David Read:
Here’s the thing, Eric. There are a number of actors from the original I would love to see return, but frankly, as new characters. Enough time has passed and y’all don’t look the same. No offense.

Eric Steinberg:
No, not at all.

David Read:
Strategically, my intentions with this show, I will say that you are one of the ones that I would love to see again in another role. So, it’s half of the reason why you’re here now.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s awesome. I appreciate that. Much appreciated, David. Much appreciated.

David Read:
There is a poise to you. The fact of the matter is, you play it for all it’s worth. I imagine sometimes it’s like, “Well, can’t I just play a nice guy for a nice long arc?” But if you’re good at being bad, lean into it.

Eric Steinberg:
You’re right. Like artists, we take what we get. We make a meal of it, let’s make a meal of it. It was a great opportunity, David. It’s not enough to say, “Oh, I have no complaints.” It was a wonderful experience. Here’s the thing, i’s made more wonderful by the fact that I even get to speak to you about it today. The idea that people appreciated it in some small way, that’s more than I expected and frankly, it’s incredibly gratifying. There are plenty of jobs I’ve done over and over and there’s no audience there. It’s not like theater. There’s no conversation. Job’s over. “Eric’s last day on set.” “Hey. Bye, everybody.” You never see anybody again.

David Read:
You move on. This has been almost 20 years for you now.

Eric Steinberg:
Never even hear if anybody saw it or reacted. So, to be able to express that and gratitude for it that I have, I’m appreciative to you, I really am. I’m deeply appreciative to you for noticing, for taking note of that and appreciating what we did.

David Read:
You can only work with what you’re given. I forget who said it at one point, but a good actor can elevate a bad script a little bit. But when you’re presented with someone who is like, “Well, this is an interesting guy,” yes, he’s largely in service of this story, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t find little nooks and crannies and little chinks in this guy’s armor, to embellish and make interesting. I really appreciated Netan. Damienrobbie wanted to know, would you come back to new Stargate? So, that’s a big thumbs up, then?

Eric Steinberg:
It’s a no-brainer. Absolutely. In a heartbeat. I’ll play the bad guy or I’ll play a whatever guy. I’ll play the casa addict. I’ll play whatever. Let’s go.

David Read:
Geez. Space corn. Oh God.

Eric Steinberg:
Like a lot of actors, all I want is meat on the bone. Give me something to chew on, bad or good.

David Read:
It has been such a treat to have you on. Any plans beyond being with and taking care of family, or is this just where you are at this point and this is your focus?

Eric Steinberg:
Right now, it’s a little sabbatical, I like to call it. We’ll see what happens. I gotta take care of things here for a while. There’s a film down in Georgia a friend of mine is doing for Lionsgate at the end of the summer, that’s something I might be involved in. Right now, to be honest, I’m thinking very much in the very short term, what’s right in front of me. As we spoke of before, I’m very lucky to have a great maestra as a mother. She needs help, so we’re together in that common goal now and hopefully soon get back to the art, get back to the work. That’s definitely the one thing that I feel missing the most past short period of time. I’m in the short game right now, but always being fed. The other day, I went to a great piece out here in Washington. Bill Irwin, the great stage performer, did a Samuel Beckett on stage here, a one-man Samuel Beckett piece and it was extraordinary. So, any bit of inspiration I get, wherever it comes from, is feeding me. Whether it’s for now, it’s not important, it’ll be for later. This too, feeds me. It’s such a joy to be able to talk to you and to be engaged and appreciating what a unique thing it was we were involved in and how much joy it brought people.

David Read:
May I ask you a personal question?

Eric Steinberg:
Of course.

David Read:
Can you share with us something about your mother that you take with you, that is either a lesson that she’s taught you or is something that she exudes as her person, as a person who helped raise you and helped make you the man that you’ve become?

Eric Steinberg:
That’s a nice question. I appreciate that, David. I was doing a play and I spent a whole week’s salary to bring my mom and dad, to put them up in a hotel. They come to see the opening night and it was a smash. There were three standing ovations, it was a glorious success. I go down into the basement and there’s a bar there, an old bar at the theater. My parents are waiting at a table. My father, “Oh, Eric, I’m proud of you.” He’s not very expressive. He’s an American man from his generation; emotions are not what’s done. But then I get to my mother, my mother looks at me with this kind of stern look. She reaches down, she opens her purse, and she pulls out this long piece of paper and she just hands it to me. She says, “Your vocal notes.” I remember just being like, “Whoa.” My dad was like, “No, honey, what are you doing? He was great at…” She just stops him and she says, “Don’t you understand? If he was no good, I’d tell him, ‘Oh, you were so great, we’re so proud of you.’ But you had something. So if you’re serious, get serious.” She had written down, “You’re losing all your enunciation. Your last speech, I didn’t hear a word. You get too emotional, you’re running around. What’s wrong…” Here’s the thing, she was right, she was absolutely right. My diction was off. I couldn’t hear the thing. There was all this… I was going too fast. There was too much emotion. I was over. She was like, “OK, get serious.” For my mother, as an Asian woman from an old-school artistic background, that’s how you express love. In Western cultures, you’d be like, “Oh, great. You’re so brilliant and wonderful.” In Asian cultures, they don’t say that. They say that, “Get real.” The way you’re treated is commensurate with your potential. If you’re serious, then you’re gonna get reamed. They’re trying to hammer you into steel, into something harder. So, that was very much indicative of the way my mom influenced me. She would always tell me, “Stop. All that power comes from stillness.” Again, that’s what I love working with Teal’c for. All that power; it’s all about that silence and that stillness. So, I would say that’s one of those great lessons my mom gave me. Thank you for asking, that’s a very sweet question.

David Read:
I cannot articulate enough how important it is. Let me come about this a different way. Our parents loved us enough to be honest with us when we were lousy. I have a couple of friends who, regardless of what they did, the sun rose and set on them and on their kids. I would approach my buddy and be like, “This wasn’t very good.” He’s like, “Well, I don’t like your tone.” It’s like, “You’re not getting the message.” It’s ’cause he wasn’t taught that. I fear for much of the generation that is coming up, that we are treating them far too fragile. They’re stronger than we give them credit for and we’re doing disrespect to them by not straightening them out when we see something is wrong. The fact that your mother loved you enough to come to a performance afterwards and give you notes, that is a beautiful form of love, because she knew that you could handle it. Also recognize that you would recognize what this was, which was I love you enough to show you, because she used to be on stage, a way in which you can do better and I know that you’re gonna execute it better next time. That’s awesome.

Eric Steinberg:
It’s so true. I appreciate you appreciating that. She doesn’t fuck about. She’s old-school serious and sometimes, even in the dressing room or your trailer, I wonder nowadays if nobody even tries to joke the way we used to joke in the back of the rehearsal rooms or on the set.

David Read:
Isn’t that sad?

Eric Steinberg:
I don’t mean inappropriate, sexual stuff like that. I don’t mean that. I just mean attitude-wise. I remember coming off sets or in the dressing room and somebody will be like, this one time in particular, we’re like, “All right, you guys, that was pretty good. Let’s all get something to eat and we’ll talk about it.” One of those actors I was working with was like, “Oh no, Eric doesn’t need to eat. He ate plenty on stage” and everybody’s laughing at you. Nowadays, if you make jokes like that, you’re gonna hurt somebody’s feelings. HR is gonna get involved and then there’s gonna be problems. You have to be able to joke about it.

David Read:
No, you have to be able to have a thick skin.

Eric Steinberg:
That’s right.

David Read:
I look for those opportunities in life where you can make genuine connections with people as I feel that we’ve had in the last couple of hours here. I sincerely appreciate you taking the amount of time that you have and being willing to be vulnerable and share some great stories with me. It has meant a lot to have you and I can’t thank you enough.

Eric Steinberg:
David, thank you. I thank you as well. It’s been a joy to be reminded of it and to think about those lessons, so I’m grateful, I am. I’m grateful to the fans who ask questions. The fact that you’re interested and you even noticed, it’s very gratifying. I appreciate it.

David Read:
Absolutely. You were a big part of that show and we’re so lucky as a fandom to be able to have more. So, truly, all my best to you and to your family.

Eric Steinberg:
You’re great. You guys are too kind. You’re too kind.

David Read:
You are exactly where you need to be and life happens to all of us and you’re there to face it standing up with your back straight and being with the people that you love. I’m thrilled that you took some time out to be with us.

Eric Steinberg:
Thank you, David.

David Read:
Thank you, sir.

Eric Steinberg:
I really appreciate you.

David Read:
Absolutely. I appreciate you coming on. I’m gonna go ahead and wrap up the show on this side.

Eric Steinberg:
OK, sir. Take care.

David Read:
Thank you, sir. That is Eric Steinberg, everyone, Netan of Stargate SG-1, the leader of the Lucian Alliance. My name is David Read. You’re watching The Stargate Oral History Project. If you enjoy Stargate and you wanna see more content like this on YouTube, please do me a favor and hit that Like button. It does make a difference with the show and will continue to help us to grow our audience. There’s a lot in flux right now; there’s a lot changing and we really do appreciate all the help. Please consider sharing the video with a Stargate friend and if you wanna get notified about future episodes, click the Subscribe icon. If you click the Bell icon, you’ll get notified the moment a new video drops and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes. Clips from this livestream will be released over the course of the next few weeks on Dial the Gate. That’s pretty much all that I have for you here. We have Dan Payne coming on tomorrow, if I’ve got my button. Where’s my button? Dan Payne is joining us tomorrow at 3:00 PM. Is it 3:00 PM? I apologize, everyone. 2:00 PM Pacific Time. He’s back to talk about his many roles in Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis. It’s gonna be a treat to have him. Thank you to everyone who responded to my new Patreon. I’m so tremendously humbled and I will be speaking more about that this coming week. Thanks so much to Lockwatcher, to Antony, to Jakub for making this episode possible; you guys are the best. I can’t do this alone and I appreciate every one of you. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in and I will see you on the other side. Bye-bye, everybody.