Peter Williams is back! We’re thrilled to be rejoined by the actor behind Stargate SG-1’s first villain in this intimate in-person discussion on the development of his character.

Share This Video ► https://youtu.be/mztRiiHxVw4

Visit DialtheGate ► http://www.dialthegate.com
on Facebook ► https://www.facebook.com/dialthegate
on Instagram ► https://instagram.com/dialthegateshow
on Twitter ► https://twitter.com/dial_the_gate
Visit Wormhole X-Tremists ► https://www.youtube.com/WormholeXTremists
Visit The Daily Gate ► https://www.youtube.com/@thedailygate

MERCHANDISE!
http://www.dialthegate.com/merch

SUBSCRIBE!
https://youtube.com/dialthegate/

Timecodes
Coming Soon!

***
“Stargate,” “Stargate SG-1,” “Stargate Atlantis,” “Stargate Universe,” and all related materials are owned by Amazon MGM Studios.

#Stargate
#DialtheGate
#TurtleTimeline

TRANSCRIPT
Find an error? Submit it here.

David Read:
Peter, I am thrilled to be sitting across from you here. Thank you for making this happen. I hope you had fun today with Matt. That was cool to watch.

Peter Williams:
My pleasure, David. And yes, I did have fun. It’s always good having one’s photograph taken.

David Read:
It’s been nearly 30 years since you got started in this thing. It’s gonna be 30 next year.

Peter Williams:
But who’s counting?

David Read:
Who’s counting? When you put on that gold makeup and that suit, that mechanical head, did you have any idea that we’d still be talking about this 30 years later?

Peter Williams:
None whatsoever, David.

David Read:
Not at all?

Peter Williams:
None whatsoever. And I have to tell you, the story starts way before that. When there was no mechanical head, there was no glowing eye, no flanged voice. There was just the movie. There wasn’t even a franchise. I think the first time I ever heard about Stargate as a franchise was from the mouth of a young story editor on a show called Neon Rider that I worked on. His name was Brad Wright. You may have heard of him.

David Read:
I think so. Wow.

Peter Williams:
He passed through and I distinctly remember Brad running the idea of acquiring the rights to the franchise for television in the parking lot of Neon Rider after shooting one day.

David Read:
To you?

Peter Williams:
Yes, to me. It was just Brad and myself, to my recollection. And I enjoyed the movie, so I didn’t think it was the most fanciful of ideas, but who gave him a shot in hell? I didn’t. He pulled it off.

David Read:
Did he give any indication that he had you in mind for anything at that point?

Peter Williams:
None whatsoever.

David Read:
Or was he just talking to you as a–

Peter Williams:
This was polite conversation following a shoot day on a different series entirely. And it was my first series.

David Read:
It was?

Peter Williams:
I’m not sure if it was his first writing job, but he was known then as a junior story editor. So, I guess I was in on the ground floor of this thing. But no, I had no idea that I would have anything to do with it. First of all, I had no idea that he could pull it off.

David Read:
So, this is ’95, I’m guessing, around there?

Peter Williams:
This was prior to ’95. We probably started shooting in ’95, I think.

David Read:
The film came out in ’94. So, you would’ve both had to have a chance to see it.

Peter Williams:
We would’ve both seen the film. In fact, I was a fan of the film. And I presume he was too. I did think it fell apart a little bit in the last 15 minutes. I think they rushed the ending. But by then, I was hooked on the idea.

David Read:
You’re hooked.

Peter Williams:
Yes, absolutely. I have a background in archeology.

David Read:
I did not know this.

Peter Williams:
I do. I do.

David Read:
Really?

Peter Williams:
I grew up with an interest in it. When I grew up in Jamaica, my home was very near to what was then known as the Arawak Museum. It was a museum dedicated to the existence of the indigenous people of Jamaica. And I used to be able to go through the bush and watch archeologists dig graves, dig middens and stratified deposits around this museum. I also had a subscription to National Geographic, which can do it as well. Combine those two things and I had a natural interest in archeological things from the distant past. So, when Stargate came along, the whole Egyptology thing was a…

David Read:
Lined right up.

Peter Williams:
… it was a perfect fit, like a Lego block.

David Read:
Could you have seen yourself taking a career in archeology?

Peter Williams:
I could, as a matter of fact. I studied it in university. I have a geography and archeology degree from Nottingham University in England. It’s in me.

David Read:
So, how old were you when you decided a career in acting would be worth pursuing? Was this after that, or was this–

Peter Williams:
It was after that.

David Read:
This was after university.

Peter Williams:
It was roundabout the time I figured out that it’s very difficult to translate a degree in geography and archeology into making a living.

Peter Williams:
I sort of segued into… I was in a new country as well. By then, my family had moved from Jamaica to Canada, and I was searching for my foothold here.

David Read:
Were you modeling at this point?

Peter Williams:
I got into modeling after recognizing that herringbone tweed jackets and me did not go very well together. The 9:00 to 5:00 life was a bit of a stretch for someone with my wide imagination. I fell into– you know the old joke? So you’re an actor, what–

David Read:
What do you do?

Peter Williams:
What restaurant do you work at?

David Read:
Or what restaurant do you work at.

Peter Williams:
That was me. I worked in a million restaurants, and supplemented that income with modeling, which eventually took off and eventually, through one thing and another, led to the acting career.

David Read:
Can I ask you about a role other than Apophis that sticks with you to this day that you’re proud that you did?

Peter Williams:
You know what?

David Read:
Something that really resonates with you?

Peter Williams:
I think you started off this thing by saying 30 years, 30 odd years. It’s been more than that that I’ve been an actor, and there are several. But why don’t we start at the beginning? The very first speaking part I had in anything was in a two-part miniseries called Hoover Versus the Kennedys: The Second Civil War. If you’re from the Toronto area you might know it. It was shot here and I played a young Harry Belafonte. Which could not have been a sweeter deal for me.

David Read:
I can see it.

Peter Williams:
The hair and makeup people had to etch out the receding hairline that Harry is known for and the little peak, but I think there’s a physical resemblance of which I’m proud.

David Read:
But getting into the head space of someone who exists and is not dead, at this–

Peter Williams:
At that time, yes.

David Read:
What… At that time. Was that mental gymnastics that you had to get through or what–

Peter Williams:
Not really.

David Read:
What do you do?

Peter Williams:
Not really because Harry is a Jamaican. And I used to, as a child, drive past the home where he, legend has it, grew up. Or spent his time in Jamaica in that house. So I was able to identify a specific house. Add to that the fact that he attended the same high school I went to in Jamaica, so there was a definite connection there. And my mother, as someone who was an educator, happened to have taught Harry’s eldest daughter in school. So there were many little touchstones, this degrees-of-separation thing.

David Read:
So did he or his family ever… their opinion of what you did ever get back to you?

Peter Williams:
It never did.

David Read:
It never did.

Peter Williams:
No, no, no. But my opinion of him remains extremely high so I was more than honored to have Belafonte on my resume.

David Read:
I would’ve been shaking in my boots nonetheless ’cause this is… Especially if it’s someone that you admire and respect. You wanna get it right. At least an honest portrayal because it’s not him. It is a version of him that you are doing. It’s your interpretation of him.

Peter Williams:
Except it was…

David Read:
Because you’re in there.

Peter Williams:
… it was sort of a documentary series about the period when J. Edgar Hoover and the Kennedys were interlocked, shall we say, in competition around the whole concept of civil rights and Vietnam and that sort of thing. It was almost as fraught politically as we find ourselves now.

David Read:
Humans are gonna human, aren’t they?

Peter Williams:
Well put.

David Read:
So, 1996 comes along. Brad Wright and Jonathan Glassner have both gone to MGM with this idea for a show about this certain alien ring. And MGM says, “You should both do it.” They get together, they write “Children of the Gods.” What’s the first thing you hear about this thing?

Peter Williams:
First thing, I think, would’ve been the audition, which, if memory serves me correctly, happened shortly before Christmas of that year.

David Read:
So, you knew Brad was attached and this is the thing that gets you–

Peter Williams:
I did not know–

David Read:
You did.

Peter Williams:
… Brad was attached. What I knew was that MacGyver was attached. And I had previously done an episode of MacGyver. MacGyver and his good buddy, Michael Greenburg, were attached. Two names I did recognize from having worked on MacGyver. I was told that the audition was for a character named Teal’c. So I go into the audition, T-E-A-L apostrophe C. A very odd name…

David Read:
Did not know this.

Peter Williams:
… for a character, and I read for the part of Teal’c. I left there thinking I had done a fair job, can’t be disappointed with the audition I gave. But I didn’t hear anything for a couple of weeks.

David Read:
Did you do this in LA, Vancouver? Where… Here?

Peter Williams:
This was in Vancouver.

David Read:
Toronto?

Peter Williams:
This was in Vancouver. Couple of weeks later I get a callback, but it’s not for the role of Teal’c, it’s for a character called Apophis. And I go, “Oh, wow, there’s a turn up for the books.” I had no idea who Teal’c or Apophis were.

David Read:
You didn’t?

Peter Williams:
Obviously.

David Read:
Archaeology background, I wasn’t so sure, not Egyptology focused.

Peter Williams:
Egyptology, but Apep was more of the name for Apophis than Apophis at that time.

David Read:
Because they go by several names.

Peter Williams:
Several names and, of course, Ra was the extant bad guy in the show Stargate, so–

David Read:
This is his brother.

Peter Williams:
My research on the mythology of it tells me that it stems from Greek mythology before the Egyptian mythology, and I stand to be corrected. It’s been a long time since these guys walked the face of the Earth. It tells me that Ra was the sun god, ruler of the day, and Apophis or Apep was the serpent god, ruler of the night. And yes, they were brothers. You are absolutely right. Their conflict didn’t resolve itself every night, but Ra always prevailed come dawn. When the sun rose, Apep was vanquished, only to return the following night. And every night, they would then join in this battle, in perpetuity.

David Read:
Wow.

Peter Williams:
So, I read for Apophis.

David Read:
What’d you think?

Peter Williams:
Listen, I thought I did another good job, to tell you the truth.

David Read:
No, what’d you think of the character? What’d you think of the role? You’re looking at this and going…

Peter Williams:
I still had no…

David Read:
… “Oh my gosh, this is outrageous.”

Peter Williams:
I still had no real idea.

David Read:
Where do I sign up?

Peter Williams:
No real idea. But at one point, I do remember this, and it might be the stuff of legend by now- I have this image of Michael Greenburg doing this. “Why didn’t I think of that? He looks like Jay Davidson.”

David Read:
Davidson.

Peter Williams:
I have a similar appearance to Jay Davidson, and I had shoulder-length dreadlocks at the time, so my hair was even long. I can totally see why he had that revelation mid-audition.

David Read:
I can see you carrying yourself similarly, especially when you’re familiar with the movie. You know that this is apparently the same race of beings. You’re going to already have an advantage.

Peter Williams:
I think so, and I don’t wanna stress too much- the androgyny of the whole thing, but I’m a good-looking guy, if I do say so myself. And I have the aquiline features that Jay Davidson had, and so I see it as a natural look.

David Read:
It worked. You go in there. You do this audition. What happens next?

Peter Williams:
Remember I mentioned it was Christmas time?

David Read:
Yes, sir.

Peter Williams:
New Year’s came and went, not a word. Nothing. I think it was late January when I found out finally that this hadn’t gone away and I was going to get the role of Apophis. I had no idea what kind of costume I was going to wear, but they did have one proviso on the casting. They said, “Would you be willing to cut your hair?” Now, you get very attached to dreadlocks. It took me five years to grow those dreadlocks. I grew them organically, but I said, “Yes, I would be more than willing,” because I had heard that Stargate, first of all, it was Stargate, and secondly, it had been pre-sold for four seasons, I think, on–

David Read:
Four seasons, then two, then four, then five. In a matter of weeks.

Peter Williams:
Yes, and I thought, “Hey, that sounds like the promised land, so let’s go with that. Yes, I’ll cut my hair. No further questions.”

David Read:
Wow.

Peter Williams:
I still have all that hair, by the way, in a plastic bag in a storage unit somewhere in Vancouver.

David Read:
You spent a lot of time with that hair.

Peter Williams:
I did.

David Read:
Absolutely, man. What is your impression of this guy? Is he a bad dude?

Peter Williams:
He was… I think I was told right off the bat that he was going to be the nemesis. There’s, I guess a rule of thumb in the audiovisual world that if you can’t be one of the good guys, be the bad guy. I was totally onboard.

David Read:
How was that playing that smarmy, boombox voice? Snake of a head. Visually, it’s over the top. Completely outrageous. And at the same time, you nail it. So, what goes on in your head? Is it kinda like what Shatner has to do when he’s playing Kirk? They’re throwing foam rocks at him. I’ve just gotta buy it, and the audience will go where I go.

Peter Williams:
Thank you for mentioning Star Trek, because Star Trek sort of created a template for science fiction series to go from. And on top of that template, they laid several, I wanna say two-dimensional characters, but they weren’t two-dimensional. They were multi-dimensional, but they had a cartoonish aspect to them.

David Read:
There was a Saturday morning quality to it, of adventure.

Peter Williams:
Yes, yes. It became quickly apparent that I was going to be inhabiting a world built around those bare bones. The costumes–

David Read:
Christina McQuarrie.

Peter Williams:
Christina. God bless her soul.

David Read:
The Mickey Mouse ears turned in.

Peter Williams:
You had to put it in.

David Read:
The bare chest, look–

Peter Williams:
I had to bring the Mickey Mouse ears into it.

David Read:
Look, you wear those clothes. Those clothes don’t wear you.

Peter Williams:
Listen to me, man.

David Read:
Vaisari as well.

Peter Williams:
Do you know, there’s a book out there, Christina McQuarrie, I think, on her costumes. She did say that Apophis’ costumes were her favorite. It’s in the book. I think I have a scan of the quote somewhere.

David Read:
Please.

Peter Williams:
Yes, it’s in one of those books. She really, really enjoyed doing the Apophis costumes, and as we know, there were several. There was the ceremonial one and the warrior one, both of them introduced in “Children of the Gods,” and several others followed in the first couple of seasons, and onward.

David Read:
The Jaffa costume. I’ve worn one. It is no picnic.

Peter Williams:
No, it’s no picnic, from the underwear right up.

David Read:
And you have to put it on in a certain order, otherwise you completely screw it up. And pieces have a way of falling off, you have to keep up with it. What was it like getting into that? Was it pretty easy getting into who this guy was physically? This guy owns his part of the galaxy and he knows it, and all of these folks, they have no choice but to do what he has to say.

Peter Williams:
I’ll be absolutely honest with you, David. The costume did half my work for me. It really did. The minute you got in that costume, you had an advantage. You were well ahead of the game. If you don’t count so much the fake chain mail, which was some kind of jute-hemp blend…

David Read:
Spray painted.

Peter Williams:
… that scratched your skin. On cold days, we all had long underwear on. As Apophis, I remember also being uncomfortable in the gold spray-painted ballet shoes I had to wear, ’cause that’s what they were. The shoulder plates were a bother. They kept shifting. And in many of the shots, you can probably see the T-shirts we had on underneath. You could see the necks as the shoulder plates shifted. This is before we even get to talking about the helmets.

David Read:
So, you and Christopher had these pneumatic pieces.

Peter Williams:
You mean the guy that got the part of Teal’c? I can understand why I didn’t.

David Read:
You look at that face, to quote Brad Wright, “All right, Teal’c. Moving on.”

Peter Williams:
Absolutely, without question.

David Read:
Man, what a face.

Peter Williams:
And the voice.

David Read:
That totem pole, gorgeous… and voice.

Peter Williams:
And the voice.

David Read:
Without being flanged even. An extraordinary human being. One of my favorite people on the earth.

Peter Williams:
Yes. Christopher is good people, very good people.

David Read:
Tell me about him.

Peter Williams:
Listen, I have to say that of all the cast members, Christopher’s the one I was closest to. And I have a few stories about Christopher, only one or two that can be told on camera.

David Read:
Please, tell me one.

Peter Williams:
I’ll tell you one. It really, really, really endeared Christopher to me. There is a particular shot of Apophis and Teal’c, a double picture. I think one of us is holding a weapon, I’m not really sure, but it’s a great shot of both characters. And once I started doing conventions, I realized that if the photograph had two of us on it, it could have two autographs on it.

Peter Williams:
If Christopher’s autograph was on it, my autograph is automatically worth a good deal more. I had a bunch of those photographs printed up, and I ran up to Christopher’s house and I said, “Dude, see this pen? Sign here for me… 100 times.”

David Read:
“You’re my shol’va.”

Peter Williams:
He did it without blinking. And never asked me for a cut. Which I’ll never forget. I think we only did 100 though, so out there, there are probably not many more than 100 of those with the double autograph. Those are special pieces.

David Read:
He is light. I had dinner with him a couple of weeks ago. He deserves every bit of success that he has had.

Peter Williams:
He’s had a fair bit. He’s even got another gig going now. He did the Kratos thing.

David Read:
Kratos, the God of War. He’s huge overseas.

Peter Williams:
Yes, he is. Absolutely.

David Read:
Absolutely mind-blowing. Did you get into this character’s head at all or was it one of those things where it was, “What we’re seeing here, I’m gonna play into that?” This is one of those examples of pretty much pure evil. Where do you go with that as an actor? How deep can you take that? Or is it, “You know what? I’m gonna play into more of the…” Not superficial is not the word that I want, but more over the top, and I’m gonna take it for all it’s worth all the way down. How did you find your space with that character?

Peter Williams:
To tell you the truth, man, I didn’t see it as that deep. I took the approach that… First of all, by this point, we had Darth Vader… to bounce our evil off. Darth Vader was the standard bearer at the time for villains, and probably still is. I’ll be modest and say that. There’s something cartoonish, something… Not cartoonish. Something, I’m not sure what the actual word is.

David Read:
Very black and white maybe?

Peter Williams:
Yes, it’s cut and dried, obvious about where you have to go with it to be that evil. But I found a wealth of fodder, if you will, in the psychology of being a spoiled brat. I think the entitlement you see in people who want to be all domineering is part of what informs true evil.

David Read:
Was never told no, or at least never told it enough.

Peter Williams:
Yes. It’s really impossible to live in this world today, 2026, without drawing parallels with the politics of today. But I think everyone watching this will know what I mean.

David Read:
Gold hat at all?

Peter Williams:
Pretty much anything in gold.

David Read:
Gosh, no, absolutely. I had not seen the feature. I saw it the first night in syndication. “Children of the Gods.” I’d never seen the movie.

Peter Williams:
Funny, when you say, “The feature,” I automatically go to–

David Read:
Final cut.

Peter Williams:
No. The movie before the series.

David Read:
That’s what I’m talking about.

Peter Williams:
I see, I see.

David Read:
I had never seen the Stargate movie. I was a big fan of syndicated programming on my local ABC affiliate on Saturday nights, which was Outer Limits, and Poltergeist: The Legacy, both of which were shot there. And one of them didn’t come on one night. Actually, I don’t think they both did. It’s this two-hour block, this thing with a big spinning ring and this gold guy comes through with a bunch of guards. I’m like, “It’s Stargate, that was the movie, this is based on that.” And I had to go to church the next day. So, I got to the end of the first hour, and we had VCRs back then, and I pressed record, went to bed, got up, went to church, came back home, watched the second hour. That night, on NBC, Stargate was the movie of the week.

David Read:
Glassner told me, it wouldn’t have been coincidence. That’s probably on purpose. I was hooked.

Peter Williams:
Dude.

David Read:
That point forward. And that scene of you coming through, you sell it.

Peter Williams:
That really works.

David Read:
You absolutely sell it.

Peter Williams:
Actually, I’ll share the credit with the characters I’m playing against. You’ve got entire SG-1 war room. You’ve got Don Davis in there.

David Read:
Rick.

Peter Williams:
Rick. Even the extras.

David Read:
Jay Acovone was extraordinary in that.

Peter Williams:
You’ve got Kawalsky.

David Read:
Kawalsky, exactly.

Peter Williams:
All those guys, they all reflected back.

David Read:
But your heroes are only as good as …

Peter Williams:
Yes, as the villain…

David Read:
That’s right.

Peter Williams:
… as the antithesis of hero.

David Read:
That’s correct.

Peter Williams:
So, listen, man, credit also to the writers for that one. And the costumery, and the set, listen, it was a gift. It was a gift. But I’ll take that, and it survives in meme form on the internet to this day.

David Read:
There’s a few good ones.

Peter Williams:
Some really good ones.

David Read:
Have you seen the one of Moe kicking Barney out of the bar in The Simpsons? And it’s O’Neill kicking Apophis out, and then Apophis comes in behind him.

Peter Williams:
I need to have that in my collection.

David Read:
I will send that, there are some really good ones.

Peter Williams:
Yes, there’s some really good ones.

David Read:
I have made a couple myself.

Peter Williams:
Good, good, good.

David Read:
There are some intense scenes in this pilot. You and your queen have conspired to steal people across the galaxy. You are literally going, picking up girls, bringing ’em back, and showing ’em to your little lady, and you’re waiting for the lady to go, “Ah, ah, ah, ah, I want that one.” Vaitiare.

Peter Williams:
Those were the days.

David Read:
That could not have been an easy scene to shoot. Showtime required, because it’s no-limits network. This is this is cable. If you wanna do the series, you have to have a scene of nudity. Brad wanted to create a family show. So, if this was gonna be on a regular basis in the show, that’s not necessarily what he wanted. He wanted everyone to be able to watch it. He grew up with Star Trek. But that was a part of the deal. And you were in that scene. Can you tell me about that day?

Peter Williams:
Yes, I can because it’s emblazoned in my memory. First of all, before Vaitiare’s character, Sha’re, was presented to Apophis, my queen was played by a friend of mine.

David Read:
The Jaffa.

Peter Williams:
The Jaffa queen.

David Read:
Who was hosting her.

Peter Williams:
Who was hosting my queen.

David Read:
Amonet.

Peter Williams:
Amonet, yes, was actually a friend of mine.

David Read:
Really?

Peter Williams:
Yes. I knew her as Mickey. She was a model. Absolutely beautiful girl. Good friend of mine. We had the same agent, as a matter of fact. Same modeling agent. And we had done shows together. So, it was nice having her beside me. Then, the airwoman–

David Read:
Weterings.

Peter Williams:
Weterings, yes, was also played by another friend of mine.

David Read:
I’ll be darned.

Peter Williams:
She is a very good friend of mine. I knew her before I even moved to Vancouver. I knew her from Toronto.

David Read:
I’d love to have her on.

Peter Williams:
Her name is Rachel. Rachel Hayward. She is a Vancouver actress and clothing designer. She has a line of clothing.

David Read:
Really?

Peter Williams:
Yes.

David Read:
Fantastic. We’ll definitely have to have …

Peter Williams:
Warm, fleecy stuff that she will custom-make. She’s made me a couple of custom pieces. She happened to be the first person that Apophis subdues in order to assess as a potential queen. She didn’t make the grade–

David Read:
No, she didn’t. Vaitiare.

Peter Williams:
Vaitiare showed up.

David Read:
Small world, though.

Peter Williams:
Vaitiare regaled me with stories of her past as a model on the European scene. And we spent a lot of downtime together in between scenes. And then she met Michael Jackson, the rest is history.

David Read:
The rest is history.

Peter Williams:
But actual shooting of that scene, it was more uncomfortable for her, than it was for me, for obvious reasons. She didn’t have a stitch of clothing on. The costume department had a rest that day with her. All the emphasis was on the clothing I was wearing and I was fully clothed and she was presented to my character nude for appraisal.

David Read:
For him and for his gold queen.

Peter Williams:
Precisely, and for obvious reasons she made the grade and she became the mate Apophis sought.

David Read:
It’s a scary sequence on a host of levels because this person is being violated and being transformed into something else and she has no say. If that scene were shot now, would it play out rather differently do you think?

Peter Williams:
Actually there was a part of the scene too where, and I think it probably fits into that category of evil that we were talking about before, where part of the appraisal I actually violated her person by sticking my finger in her mouth and rubbing it along her gumline rather as one would choose a racehorse. Apparently that was… I forget where I got the idea for that, but it made it into the early cut. The pre-edited cut. I think that’s one of the moments that sticks out in my mind as being perhaps the most violating, nudity notwithstanding. Actually putting my finger into the actor’s mouth and assessing the strength of the gums. It was disturbing.

David Read:
Really intense.

Peter Williams:
I think it was meant to be disturbing. It satisfied that aspect. Later edits, I think, lost that scene and lost a little bit of the menace for me, even though I understand why it was done.

David Read:
Any other particular memories of the pilot that stand out? I know you guys were out in the GVRD at the Stargate. What a cool effect that was. That whole sequence was awesome.

Peter Williams:
I don’t know which sequence you’re talking about. Going through the Stargate? You asked me if there were any others. The one with the rings really appeals to me as well. I like the thought of that technology. I still do.

David Read:
It’s a cool effect.

Peter Williams:
Great effect.

David Read:
Still holds up.

Peter Williams:
Yes. Even in still pictures. We talked about the memes. There are no memes on this one but there are… no, actually there are a couple of memes. But they’re not… They’re stationary memes. Not moving memes.

David Read:
The explosion over the hill of the glider going down, going through the Stargate in a huff. That’s one of the things that they redid in final cut is this thing goes down and it’s, “OK, we’re getting out of here now.” In the final cut… “I think we better really get moving. Let’s go, honey. Let’s get out of here.”

Peter Williams:
You’re reminding me that it’s due for a re-watch. I need to remind myself–

David Read:
It’s good.

Peter Williams:
… of some of those.

David Read:
I would love to sit down and have you do a commentary on that because there is a lot that goes on there. I would love to be able to share something like that with fans. Would you be interested?

Peter Williams:
I would.

David Read:
OK, cool.

Peter Williams:
I do have another memory now. The more we talk, the more I remember.

David Read:
I’m telling you.

Peter Williams:
One of the things I liked most about the pilot, and I’m not just saying this because I want him to hear it, was meeting Alexis Cruz. Alexis Cruz is a very deep fellow and I really, really liked him then, and I like him now even though I haven’t seen him in years. I think he’s got his life on another level now.

David Read:
He’s got a six-year-old now.

Peter Williams:
Yes, he’s… and he’s an educator, isn’t he? He’s doing very well at it by all accounts. Alexis and I spent a lot of time post-series traveling around to conventions and generally meeting fans and it was great to meet him and he was a good link to the movie ’cause he was the only one from the movie.

David Read:
He gave a great deal of legitimacy to the series. Not that the series didn’t necessarily need it, but I really feel that he elevated it, and when Erick came in later as well, there was something of a baton handoff from him to you guys. It works very well.

Peter Williams:
I like that idea. Someone from the previous series being included in the new one. Did I say that?

David Read:
Ship of Theseus, anyone? No, absolutely, for those who are listening. No, I completely agree. There’s a symmetry to that that’s rather poignant. Mario has a party. Mario Azzopardi. Intense guy. Brilliant, crazy, Machiavellian, loud…

Peter Williams:
Almost literally.

David Read:
… brilliance.

Peter Williams:
Almost literally. His name could be Mario Machiavelli for all we know and he’s changed it.

David Read:
Any memory of Mario?

Peter Williams:
Yes.

David Read:
Probably several.

Peter Williams:
Actually, yes, but one in particular stands out. And he looked at me dead in the eye one day. He stopped a take, probably mid-take, and when a director does that, you usually know you fucked up at some point, or messed up, if you wanna re-edit that part.

David Read:
It’s OK.

Peter Williams:
But he came right up to me and he goes, “You’re far more powerful when your head is straight than when it’s lean to one side.” So, I thought about that for a bit, and I took him at his word, and to this day I hear his admonition when I’m posing for a picture or setting up for a shot. I play with my head angle, and I think straight, dead on is my best side.

David Read:
Sometimes, when a talented person gives you a note, you can’t get it out of your head, even when the cameras are off. It’s because so much of our power is here.

Peter Williams:
And you know what? I really appreciated him getting up into my space to tell me that, instead of blasting it out over the whole set.

David Read:
‘Cause he brings it down–

Peter Williams:
No, he–

David Read:
… person to person.

Peter Williams:
… not only brought it person to person, and he kept it private, kept it between himself and myself, which was good.

David Read:
Wow. Do you regret not being directed by him again?

Peter Williams:
No, I don’t, to tell you the truth. I think he served his purpose.

David Read:
OK.

Peter Williams:
I think he thought he served his purpose.

David Read:
I think so.

Peter Williams:
He doesn’t strike me as the kinda guy that likes to go over ground already trodden. You know what I mean? He likes to keep things moving. I haven’t seen him in a long, long, long, long time and he was succeeded by some very good directors.

David Read:
Some incredible people.

Peter Williams:
And as the series evolved, it sort of, I don’t wanna say it lost its gravitas, but it became less serious and took itself into the realm of levity.

David Read:
Whimsy.

Peter Williams:
Whimsy, there’s a good word. Perfect. A bit of whimsy.

David Read:
And Rick is very whimsical.

Peter Williams:
Exactly.

David Read:
Peter DeLuise is whimsical.

Peter Williams:
That’s who I was coming to.

David Read:
For sure. There is a magic to them. But at the same time, the villain has to chafe them to bring that out. And that’s what’s so delicious about watching it. Amanda Tapping once said that you were her favorite villain. And part of what she said was, “You never forget your first.”

Peter Williams:
That’s my line?

David Read:
Yeah. Gosh.

Peter Williams:
I used to tease Cliff Simon with that one all the time.

David Read:
Let’s take a break and talk about Cliff for a second.

Peter Williams:
Let’s talk about Cliff. Sure.

David Read:
He is up there in terms of– Peter DeLuise told me and Darren this once when we were up there interviewing, and I’ve never forgotten it. “Cliff is back this season, and his collars are taller and pointier than ever.” And that encapsulates the image. He’s evil.

Peter Williams:
He is. Let me see now. Cliff…

David Read:
You both dressed awesome as villains. No one did it better than the two of you. And it’s up there trying to figure out which one did it better.

Peter Williams:
We were both fashion models. He had one up on me though. He also danced at the Folies Bergère. I didn’t have that.

David Read:
The terrace.

Peter Williams:
That’s right.

David Read:
Man.

Peter Williams:
That guy, I’m telling you, we had a healthy respect for each other and a love for each other. We got to know each other extremely well after the series on these conventions. He’s a born traveler. As am I. We both love traveling. We have a similar approach to traveling, excepting I don’t take the risks he does. And I was jealous of his risk-taking to a certain point.

David Read:
He also died doing what he loved.

Peter Williams:
He died doing what he loved.

David Read:
Also.

Peter Williams:
I know he wouldn’t have had it any other way.

David Read:
If he had a choice. I agree. It was devastating.

Peter Williams:
Really. We had just been together in England. I’ve got some nice photographs of the last time we were together.

David Read:
No, there was a presence to him, that damned South African accent of his that was just so– He’s with you in that space. He’s not also elsewhere. Which is really easy to do when you’re at a convention. Your attention is really divided, or when you’re with a group of people who all love you and are wanting a piece of you. He took his time with people, and he recognized that this is a moment for us. They can wait.

Peter Williams:
That’s just it.

David Read:
And that was him.

Peter Williams:
Listen, man. The South Africa he grew up in…

David Read:
With apartheid and–

Peter Williams:
… was a place… less said about it, the better. But Cliff was a man who had his eyes wide open about where he came from. He saw the world, and he grew from where he came from into a man of the world. Certain political factions these days have demonized the word global, but global applied to Cliff. And it was a good thing in his hands.

David Read:
‘Cause you have to travel it. You have to see it, the Third World as well as the First. You have to see how people live. You have to see… You find out how they behave. He gave so much. It was awful.

Peter Williams:
There was never a time where I saw Cliff talk to someone and not be present for that person. I watched him with fans. In fact, I would like to think I taught Cliff some things, but Cliff definitely taught me some things.

David Read:
Really?

Peter Williams:
Yeah. One of which has nothing to do with what we’re talking about right now. We were both into fitness, for example. Cliff would work out every morning on tour. He could live hard, but he also worked out hard.

David Read:
He did.

Peter Williams:
So he took care of his body. He regenerated himself in the morning after the night before. He taught me some exercise techniques that I still use to this day. That you can do on the road, kind of thing. You know what I mean?

David Read:
You can do… when you’re outside of your system.

Peter Williams:
Yes. Your own body weight can sometimes be your gym.

David Read:
Really?

Peter Williams:
Yes, man. And Cliff was a master at that.

David Read:
Did you have any idea that they were gonna bring you back as quickly as they did? Or was that a surprise?

Peter Williams:
I didn’t have any idea that they were gonna kill me as quickly as they did. But they did it with class. They killed me in double episodes, ratings week episodes, series enders or series openers. They always did it with a sense of importance. So, I became used to dying and being reborn. And after a while it didn’t bother me. If you’ll buy that.

David Read:
Sure, because I think that Brad is one of those who’ll be the first to say that in sci-fi you’re never really dead.

Peter Williams:
He always told me that.

David Read:
There are few characters that exemplify that more than Apophis.

Peter Williams:
Listen, man. You know about the asteroid Apophis.

David Read:
So, yes, 2029 April 13th, I believe, we’re expecting a flyby?

Peter Williams:
There are two–

David Read:
So are you gonna go out there and divert it for us?

Peter Williams:
I don’t need to. The actual Earth itself will divert it, so that in 2036 it’s got a statistical possibility of actually impacting Earth and wiping out certain people.

David Read:
Certain people. Have you talked with these guys who named this thing before?

Peter Williams:
I don’t think I’ve ever spoken with them. But I’ve read stories–

David Read:
Stargate fans.

Peter Williams:
Interviews with them, yes. Tholen and somebody else. It’s two NASA astronomers who discovered this previously unnamed asteroid. It had a numerical name and they gave it the name Asteroid Apophis, which I thought was fantastic. This is precisely because it orbits Earth, goes away, and then comes back again.

David Read:
Comes back again.

Peter Williams:
Goes away and comes back again. I couldn’t be more pleased with that eventuality. It has kept Apophis alive in the imagination on the internet for at least until 2036. I’ve had T-shirts printed. Front says 2036 and the back says Apophis Comet. I’ve had people make memes, jokes, all kinds of stuff, and I love it all.

David Read:
Season One ends with a glorious cliffhanger. Not to skip over The Nox, but you did kill SG-1 effectively. And if it hadn’t been for The Nox they would’ve been dead.

Peter Williams:
“Nox,” by the way, seems to be one of the more popular episodes in my research.

David Read:
They’re a cool species. “The very young do not always do as they are told.”

Peter Williams:
Comtrya.

David Read:
That’s actually the Alterans in “Tin Man.”

Peter Williams:
Is that story.

David Read:
Jay Brazeau, that’s his character.

Peter Williams:
Jay …yes.

David Read:
Armin Shimerman, Frida Betrani, they were The Nox. Talk about another one where you were in the rain a lot and probably had had a lot of undergarments on to protect you– because they said it rained all week.

Peter Williams:
It did.

David Read:
You were up in mud like this deep… in the GVRD. You grit and bear it. You said that you started noticing that when Serpent would come up in the title, in the episode name, that you would expect a call.

Peter Williams:
That’s right.

David Read:
Were you surprised with being thrown into attacking Earth by the end of Season One, or was it like, “This is a natural progression for this character. I could see him going to this planet.”

Peter Williams:
Natural progression. In fact, I might’ve expected it a little sooner, given what happened in the pilot. There was an actual visit to Earth in the pilot, and it seemed like a natural progression, for sure.

David Read:
Did you know that Alexis was to be written out of the show, and a scene with you and visual effects saved that character?

Peter Williams:
I did not know that. No, I did not.

David Read:
In the second half, you and he get into rings and get beamed away. And originally, Alexis, as Klorel, was supposed to go down with his ship, and Brad and Jonathan and a few of the others were tracking fan feedback and were like, “We can’t kill this character. We have to bring him back.” With green screen, they already had the elements, so they just stuck him in with you in the ring transporter and went through the gate and got the heck out of there. It’s amazing what they have the ability to do when they’re doing this fan research and going, “You know what? Let’s go ahead and pivot on this.”

Peter Williams:
The writers like to think they know it all, but no. The fans know it all.

David Read:
Within reason. You can’t please everybody. No, and I’m not even sure you should try to please everybody. But at the same time, you should be listening.

Peter Williams:
Yes, you should. There are people out there with very, very vivid imaginations. You could probably get stories from those guys. Storylines, I mean.

David Read:
His downfall began at the destruction of–

Peter Williams:
His? Who his?

David Read:
Apophis’ downfall began with the destruction of his motherships over Earth. The very next thing he did was steal Teal’c’s son from him and brainwash him. Neil Denis played Teal’c’s son, Rya’c, and I thought that that was a delicious twist because now Apophis is taking the knife and twisting it. “You know what? This is the thing that’s most important to you. I’m not gonna kill him. I’m not even gonna torture him. I’m gonna turn him on you.” What a great twist.

Peter Williams:
I loved it. I loved the appearance of more technology, by the way. The vo’cum, was it?

David Read:
The vo’cum?

Peter Williams:
Yeah.

David Read:
Yes. That was in “Rules of Engagement” when you’re talking to the troops. The American town.

Peter Williams:
What was that?

David Read:
The Goa’uld communication balls. Exactly. You did a lot of appearances where you weren’t actually present in the episode at all, other than on Goa’uld TV.

Peter Williams:
Yes, that’s true.

David Read:
That was a lot of you in front of a green screen. Even in one, you were doing just voiceover, in “Tangent.” The X301, there’s a death glider that gets out of dodge and starts heading back towards Apophis’ home planet and Teal’c was like, “This is all new. Before I turned… Apophis would have had no need for this.” And you come in and you do a voiceover. Something was always happening where they could bring you in.

Peter Williams:
You know what’s beginning to take shape here is that AI could take my place ultimately. I don’t wanna suggest anything to anyone.

David Read:
Not if fans have anything to say about it. But so long as the proper residuals are… and you have artistic control.

Peter Williams:
I will stress, every time I appeared in a Stargate episode where I did not work, I was compensated. So, as long as it goes on like that, I’m fine.

David Read:
No, absolutely. For sure.

Peter Williams:
Stargate is the gift that keeps on giving. It was giving then, it’s still giving now.

David Read:
This is true. With the fandom and everything else. And with another series coming, I wanna finish off with that. Season Two, “Serpent’s Song.” You already alluded to you were surprised that you died as early as you did.

Peter Williams:
Yes. Was that the first time I died? Yes. I think it was the first time.

David Read:
Takes shelter with his greatest enemy ’cause your character knew that they would not sacrifice you. You knew that they were of pure heart enough that they would welcome you in. Not with smiling faces, but they would bring you shelter, and that Sokar would destroy them as well as you. That bastard.

Peter Williams:
Sokar. Boy.

David Read:
I know.

Peter Williams:
I have a soft spot for Sokar.

David Read:
David Palffy.

Peter Williams:
Yes, I do. The character Sokar, I have a soft spot for him, and I thought he was badder than me, tell you the truth.

David Read:
He was the original Satan.

Peter Williams:
He was bad, man, that guy. Then I got happy ’cause I got to kill him.

David Read:
Yes, you did. That’s correct. But I don’t wanna skip too far ahead.

Peter Williams:
All right.

David Read:
I love this episode because of the sci-fi conundrum that it gives. You are being presented with an opportunity to vanquish your enemy, and J.R. Bourne as Martouf and Lantash says, “Surely you welcome this.” And even Apophis says to O’Neill, “I’m sure you’re relishing in this,” and O’Neill says, “Not really.” And I thought that was so telling, because the heroes don’t want to see pain come even to their greatest enemy. There is still a piece of them that says, “You know what? It doesn’t mean I have to like you, but I don’t want to watch you suffer either.”

Peter Williams:
I got the sense that sympathy was more for the host than for the Goa’uld himself, even though by this point there was shared history. I’m proud of that episode, very much so, because I feel like you could see the difference in personality between the Goa’uld and the host.

David Read:
That’s correct, correct.

Peter Williams:
I was essentially doing what Michael B. Jordan just did in Sinners. I was playing two characters. I’m very proud of how that show turned out and to this day I still get compliments.

David Read:
We didn’t expect to meet the host. That was kinda wild and you got to go to a depth there. This guy has been trapped across a chasm, in a nightmare of images, for thousands of years, he’s never found a way out and all of a sudden he’s allowed to be set free. Part of me… I’m getting goosebumps just thinking about that damn scene, Peter.

Peter Williams:
Me too.

David Read:
Right through me! Part of me thinks that his spirit was truly set free there, and all that was left after that, when he was resurrected, was Apophis. The spirit of the host was gone. Do you get that feeling?

Peter Williams:
I’m about to make your spine tingle a little more. The year before that was shot, my father died. And I saw him on his deathbed and he looked exactly like that aged host that my Goa’uld inhabited. I saw my father. I saw my father’s spirit leaving his body in that scene. My father was a shadow of himself by the time he passed. He was a great man in real life. But by the time he passed, he was a shadow of himself, rather like that aged–

David Read:
‘Cause the symbiote’s been tortured. It can’t keep up with healing the host. And he advances in age.

Peter Williams:
And at a certain point you just have to resign yourself that you’re gonna fly away home. You’re a spirit.

David Read:
Everyone raised their game up for that episode. Even Teryl, who is standing right there. Teryl, wow! Playin’ the doctor, she’s like, “I’m sorry, he may be the nastiest man who ever lived, he’s still my patient.”

Peter Williams:
I just saw Teryl on something the other day.

David Read:
She is always working it.

Peter Williams:
I know.

David Read:
She is on fire.

Peter Williams:
I know. She’s really, really good.

David Read:
She is something.

Peter Williams:
Always has been and still a little cutie.

David Read:
Absolutely, on her apple boxes. DeLuise directed this episode.

Peter Williams:
Yes, sir.

David Read:
And you were tied to a bed.

Peter Williams:
Yeah, that’s right. You’ve heard the stories. I know where this is going.

David Read:
Would you one more time?

Peter Williams:
Sure. Yes, I was. I think this was on the last day of shooting, or certainly the last day of my character’s shooting in the episode. I was booked on a flight to Australia that night, and I was supposed to leave set and go straight to the airport.

David Read:
Did you have work down there, or?

Peter Williams:
It was a convention.

David Read:
It was? OK.

Peter Williams:
Yeah, it was a convention. To segue slightly back to Christopher Judge, that’s how I got into my very first convention.

David Read:
Christopher?

Peter Williams:
They had Judge booked. Judge couldn’t make it. He suggested me to go, and it was Sydney, Australia. How cool is that?

David Read:
Was that the first one?

Peter Williams:
No, not that one. I think this one–

David Read:
OK. It had been earlier.

Peter Williams:
It had to be an earlier one, yes. This was the second one, I think, second time in Australia. To give you another Christopher Judge anecdote.

David Read:
He’s always a blessing. So, you were tied to a bed?

Peter Williams:
Tied to a bed.

David Read:
That’s it.

Peter Williams:
I was due to catch a flight that night and, needless to say, that day I was in every scene. I had a lot of dialogue, I had a lot of work. And then I’m on a, what, 16-hour flight, or whatever it is, I forget now, to Sydney

David Read:
It’s a long way to go.

Peter Williams:
It’s a long way. I think it went LA and then Sydney.

David Read:
Sydney.

Peter Williams:
I finished my lines, we finished shooting the scene, and DeLuise seemed happy. And he goes, “I’d like to thank Peter Williams for his part in the show. Thank you, Peter.” Lights went off, leaving me… in a straitjacket on a gurney strapped in.

David Read:
Immobile?

Peter Williams:
Immobile. I figured, all right, practical joke.

David Read:
You have a flight to catch.

Peter Williams:
But I have a flight to catch. Minutes seemed longer than 60 seconds at that time. Several minutes passed and I go, “Hey guys, I have a flight to catch. Let me outta here.” Silence. They dragged it on. I think they had a driver waiting to take me to the airport.

David Read:
They had better have, absolutely.

Peter Williams:
But the silence went on till I started to feel a little bit nervous, and it was dead silence. Somebody, I don’t know if it was deliberate or what, sneezed or coughed or farted off set, offstage somewhere, and the ice was broken. So, the joke was over, but man, it had me nervous there for a second.

David Read:
If you don’t have a thick skin, you’re not gonna last on that set.

Peter Williams:
Not with Peter DeLuise at the helm.

David Read:
That’s it, you have to be willing to have a little bit of a sense of humor.

Peter Williams:
A word for Peter, though. What a nice guy. They don’t come nicer than him.

David Read:
No. No.

Peter Williams:
He’s just a super …

David Read:
He’s an actor’s director.

Peter Williams:
… super dude. Yes, he is.

David Read:
That’s it.

Peter Williams:
Yes, he is.

David Read:
The story goes that they wanted to keep you as a surprise for the end of Jolinar’s memories. Can you tell me how they arranged to keep the surprise of Apophis in Jolinar’s memories?

Peter Williams:
I think I was double booked, actually. I had another job, and they were trying to help me make it work. For which I was grateful. I was a little bit nervous having Dion play…

David Read:
Dion Johnstone.

Peter Williams:
… play my character in makeup, but because he’s such a fantastic actor, I didn’t want him to see how good he was.

David Read:
You never know.

Peter Williams:
You never know, exactly.

David Read:
That’s it. Peter, we’re good.

Peter Williams:
We’re good. Dion, say hi to Dion. Dion’s a really, really good actor.

David Read:
He’s excellent.

Peter Williams:
He’s good at a lot of different disciplines. He does Shakespeare, he does classics, he does August Wilson, he does–

David Read:
He does Unas very well.

Peter Williams:
All kinds of things. He played more than one role.

David Read:
He sure did. He played several.

Peter Williams:
On Stargate, anyway. I had to suck that one. He did his bit, and I did my bit, and then the reveal came. They did approach me about having my credit put at the end, and I had absolutely no problem with it. It was great. The surprise was great.

David Read:
It gave birth to GateWorld.net.

Peter Williams:
It gave birth to my least favorite of all my costumes. The Borg.

David Read:
The Borg.

Peter Williams:
The Borg impression.

David Read:
The Seven of Nine to the extreme. Did they take a mold of your face?

Peter Williams:
I think they did. They did, and it wasn’t the first one either. They did a mold for those plastic hats, too. The skullcaps.

David Read:
Which apparently retained so much heat that it was boiling. I had one on. I couldn’t believe how much heat escapes through the top of your head. You don’t think about those things.

Peter Williams:
That’s right.

David Read:
My God. This was a great two-parter for so many of the characters, because they’re so well-established at this point. We know who they all are, and again, it’s Peter. It’s Apophis twisting the knife more and more, trying to get information out of him, and he can’t. That’s how united they all are against him. And the reveal that he’s suddenly back and involved, I didn’t see it. We all knew, Martouf and Lantash say it at the end of “Serpent’s Song,” “This is not the end of him. Sokar will revive him and torture him again and again.”

David Read:
But we’re so preoccupied with saving Jacob. We’re so in the thick of it, it’s Apophis. We didn’t see it, and it’s awesome. What a twist.

Peter Williams:
Another word for J.R. Bourne, by the way. J.R. Bourne and I were friends before, so I’d actually worked with him before. I thought he had a really cool character, that Martouf character is much beloved in the fandom.

David Read:
No, very much so. His death fractured fandom, cleaved it in two. Half of the fandom loved the episode, and the other half hates it. There is no more polarizing episode of SG-1 than “Crossroads.” That’s a wild show. It was very controversial at the time. Absolutely. When the character came back, you were risen from the dead. Heavy prosthetics. That was a nightmare.

Peter Williams:
Logistically speaking. Ego-wise, it was, too, because really, only half of my face was showing at that point.

David Read:
That’s true, too.

Peter Williams:
I did realize they had told me it was gonna regenerate in the sarcophagus. So, it improved from there.

David Read:
It did get smaller. But only so much. That’s the thing. They wanted to show you have to have some of it there, because this is something the character is carrying with him now and is a direct result of SG-1. It was a cool idea, and the fact that all of your military armor, they were all red-colored now at this point. But you had been reborn out of the fires of Netu.

Peter Williams:
That’s when the harem showed up too.

David Read:
My God, yes. They were hanging off of you. For sure.

Peter Williams:
One of my enduring memories.

David Read:
No, the character was definitely on his, I think, final path at that point. When enemies came along, that was a great show. Because we’ve gotta get rid of this guy once and for all, and the replicators ultimately helped do it. One of the cool twists of that is that he convinces Teal’c to come back to his side with drugs. He transforms him and turns him back over. And then even after you’re gone, we have to spend an episode releasing Teal’c from that grasp, and then you and Christopher and Tony have a wonderful flashback episode in “Threshold.” Any memories of that?

Peter Williams:
I’ve no memories of that one. I’ve gotta tell you. But it’s worth revisiting for me. “Threshold.” I’m gonna make a note of that.

David Read:
It’s a good show.

Peter Williams:
See, you know what?

David Read:
Strong performances.

Peter Williams:
I did not like Replicator’s storyline….

David Read:
You didn’t like how they took you out?

Peter Williams:
I did not like it.

Peter Williams:
I wanted SG1 to do it, not Replicators.

David Read:
I see.

Peter Williams:
I felt it would’ve had more of a resonance with the audience.

David Read:
Poetic.

Peter Williams:
Yes. Rather than have something as mechanical as these little insects. Never did like it. Never did like Replicators. And I didn’t find them scary enough, tell you the truth. I found them a little too mechanical and not organic in any way. Part of what brought me to Stargate emotionally, as a fan, as a viewer, was the organic nature of it. Humans on another planet, technology tended to distance my emotions from the actual product. That’s just me. I didn’t like the Replicator storyline.

David Read:
I get that. That’s a really valid point because you have been chasing them the entire show and then the Asgard’s enemy are the ones that knock you off. There is a certain cop-out to that… Not to say that it wasn’t one that you didn’t see coming. ‘Cause it was definitely one that we didn’t see coming, but it would’ve been nice, I can see that, if SG1 had been the one to vanquish you after all.

Peter Williams:
Yes. I think they deserved it.

David Read:
As an audience member.

Peter Williams:
As an audience. The questions about the actual impact with the planet…

David Read:
Is he really gone?

Peter Williams:
Yes, kind of remain for me.

David Read:
Really?

Peter Williams:
Yeah, they do. But I don’t know whether that’s just fanciful, wishful thinking and my becoming accustomed to the fact that Apophis always returns.

David Read:
There was a conversation that was had… I can’t remember with which of the writers. There’s a reason that we don’t see the villains always die. But sometimes it’d be nice for the actors to have some kind of closure.

Peter Williams:
I don’t think they ever take that into consideration. But I’m thinking about the actual audience. Not so much the actor. And then by the time Ba’al shows up, Ba’al has the whole cloning technology. I don’t think it would be a stretch for Apophis also to have had a whiff of that. Hey, let me leave that there.

David Read:
Ba’al had his own team of Goa’uld scientists. I’m sure Apophis had one or two as well. Did you see the ships he was building?

Peter Williams:
Yeah.

David Read:
God sakes!

Peter Williams:
And he was the Goa’uld of record for the longest time. He could take out Sokar, he could take out Anubis.

David Read:
Once his brother was gone, that was it. He owned the sky.

Peter Williams:
He owned the sky. So, there’s no reason he shouldn’t have had some kind of access to some of that technology that ultimately Ba’al controlled.

David Read:
One of my favorite scenes of you is in Season Six. It’s an episode that Christopher did. This is the first he wrote. He had a story guide.

Peter Williams:
I think it’s eight.

David Read:
Season Six was “The Changeling.”

Peter Williams:
Really?

David Read:
Yeah.

Peter Williams:
I don’t know why I thought it was eight. Sorry.

David Read:
No, Season Eight you come back as well.

Peter Williams:
Do I?

David Read:
Uh-huh. And he wrote in Season Eight as well. So, in Season Six, you come in as a doctor, except it’s Apophis. And his eyes glow. If that’s not my favorite moment, I’m getting goosebumps just thinking of this. I believe I mentioned this to you up on stage as well, that scene where you turn around to him in your Children of the Gods garb and you say, “You know, I may be dead, but there’s a part of you that will always believe that I’ll be in the underworld waiting for you.” And there is something, whew, very tadpole deep about that idea where no matter how much Teal’c has shaken his belief in those beings, some part of him way deep down can never let go. And I can believe it because I can see that in myself happening as well. Am I a believer in certain spiritual things? Yes. But there is that seed of doubt at the same time that, “What if I’m wrong?” And that is pernicious. And I think it speaks to the true humanity of Teal’c. “I’ve done this thing for the right reasons. I know I have. But really, what if there’s a piece of me that still thinks that it wasn’t the right thing to do?” That’s scary.

Peter Williams:
Give credit to Christopher for leaving you with that. Because that’s a tough one to pull off. That’s a very subtle thing. Residual sentiment. Subtle thing to play.

David Read:
It’s so ingrained in him from childhood. This is all he knew until Bra’tac came along and shook him of it. And there’s certain demons that we can’t let go.

Peter Williams:
What I learn every time I talk to somebody like you that still remembers the entire canon?

David Read:
I don’t know about that, but a fair bit of it, for sure. And we got you back twice more. We got you back again in “Moebius.” They didn’t make you cut your hair this time.

Peter Williams:
No.

David Read:
They put it underneath.

Peter Williams:
No, they gave me a fake beard which would always look fake to me.

David Read:
No, you did that well. It was an alternate reality. There was one in Season Three where you played the alternate version of yourself as well.

Peter Williams:
Yes, that’s right.

David Read:
And the alternates, I think you may hold a record for the number of alternate characters of the same character that you’ve played. Because it was such a good role. “Bring him back, let’s go get him.” Then they brought you back in Continuum. Joel Goldsmith.

Peter Williams:
All right, that was a whole second and a half.

David Read:
Man. I saw Continuum with the cast and crew in the screening in Vancouver for it. You come on screen and Cliff says his line to you, and then he turns to Teal’c and he says, “Yes, the first leader of the free Jaffa nation,” you turn to Christopher and you go…

Peter Williams:
Shol’va.

David Read:
That’s exactly right. The whole theater laughed. They thought that it was hilarious.

Peter Williams:
Shol’va.

David Read:
He was your shol’va, and he shall remain.

Peter Williams:
Do you know that, of all the things that all the fans say to me on the road, it’s that word. Shol’va. Even more than Jaffa, Kree, they go, “Shol’va.”

David Read:
Because you said it with such conviction. “You bastard.” That’s really what he’s saying.

Peter Williams:
It’s one of those words that should be in the dictionary.

David Read:
Yes, it should be, absolutely. Right next to Kree. This has been a delight. I could go on and on.

Peter Williams:
Good, man.

David Read:
Though there’s a couple of things that I wanna wrap up with. We have a fourth Stargate series coming.

Peter Williams:
I’ve heard.

David Read:
You have?

Peter Williams:
I have heard about it. I read about it.

David Read:
What are your thoughts?

Peter Williams:
I think I was in Czechia when the news broke, and my thoughts are, it’s about bloody time, to tell you the truth. Because this thing has legs, it still has legs, and the universe is infinite. And enough time has gone by to have seen this thing regenerate itself with an entirely new generation showing up at the conventions. There are young people who weren’t born when the last episode was shot coming to these conventions and knowing lines, knowing characters, in costume. It’s a surefire thing. I hope there is enough of a nod to what has led up to this.

David Read:
An acknowledgement.

Peter Williams:
And perhaps even a follow-on. Yes, there are selfish reasons, but even without those reasons, I hope it is successful for everyone’s sake.

David Read:
SG-1 returned to Netflix, and within its second week, it had cracked the top 10 on Netflix streaming. It’s still being discovered by people, and people are still falling in love with it. Why does it continue to work as well as it does?

Peter Williams:
I think–

David Read:
In your opinion?

Peter Williams:
For me?

David Read:
Yeah.

Peter Williams:
I would like to give credit where credit is, to those who think they deserve credit, but I think it’s even more simple than that. I think the romance of believing in life on other worlds and in other dimensions is a real thing. Our imaginations have only been spurred on by advances in technology, the spinning, the centripetal forces of where we find ourselves as humans on this planet now. We are seeing things that we took for granted dissolve in front of our eyes or spin out of control in actuality. We’re seeing conventions that we fought hard for crumble. We’ve seen things that we didn’t think could happen, happen. We’ve seen cars learning to park themselves. We have seen–

David Read:
Mind-boggling.

Peter Williams:
Driverless vehicles, not to mention the winds of politics that are blowing globally.

David Read:
Talk of alien life–

Peter Williams:
Talk of alien life.

David Read:
… in open dialogue in Congress. It’s like, “Uh…”

Peter Williams:
Exactly.

David Read:
“What?”

Peter Williams:
We’ve seen various answers to the Area 51 question. We’ve seen science fiction shows come and go without the success of Stargate being replicated, to use a phrase.

David Read:
So, is it just it has a good anchor?

Peter Williams:
No, here’s what it is, for me, it is the connection that we as humans have to everything that exists around us. And by that I mean, the universe we see ourselves in. We’ve now glimpsed into other solar systems.

Peter Williams:
We’ve now counted planets around distant suns. We have now seen… asteroids swinging far away and coming back…

David Read:
Right on back.

Peter Williams:
… swinging right on back, getting closer every time. We have seen statistical possibilities calculated in Russia and in America about possibilities of impact. We have seen artificial intelligence recreations of what ancient impacts looked like. Actual excavations of crater rims and radiocarbon dating of residue left in these crater rims that give us an insight into previous impact points. We’ve seen… Just the other day we saw a humanoid robot walk out in front of television cameras. We see…

David Read:
A lot.

Peter Williams:
I could go on.

David Read:
A lot.

Peter Williams:
We see a lot.

David Read:
To lose our mooring to.

Peter Williams:
But you know what? We’re only human. We still need the recreation of audiovisual stimuli created by our brains, that we can comprehend. We still need things that will stretch our imagination but are comprehensible. I think Stargate fit that mold perfectly, so did Star Trek. Star Wars seems to have lost it a little bit. They’ve gotten very fancy. I think Star Trek and Star Wars are still where it’s at.

David Read:
Sci-Fi is our dream phase.

Peter Williams:
Sci-Fi… We’ve seen science fiction and nerds become cool.

David Read:
Who ever thought that was gonna happen? I didn’t. Man, Peter, this has been wonderful. Thank you…

Peter Williams:
Thank you, man.

David Read:
… for everything you have done for this fandom. Thank you for continuing to show up for this show and for the audience who tunes in to watch it.

Peter Williams:
Really enjoy meeting the fans. Really enjoy it.

David Read:
It means the world to have you both- …as part of this. And to have you buy into this role as much as you coulda been, “You know what? I did that character. He was great.” But it’s in the past. You embrace him…

Peter Williams:
I love it.

David Read:
… as wild and–

Peter Williams:
Love him more now than I did then, tell you the truth. Really do.

David Read:
Thank you, sir. Appreciate you…

Peter Williams:
Thanks, David.

David Read:
… for everything.

Peter Williams:
Cheers.