Which episode stands out in our mind as the best hour of Jack O’Neill in its totality? Not just one scene, but the entire thing? Believe it or not, the audience arrived at some unexpected answers!

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Welcome, everyone, to Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I appreciate you being with me for this episode. Season Six is underway a little bit now. This is actually pre-recorded the week before we release, so a couple of details may be out of sync, including this dying naquadah reactor here. That’s what happens when you don’t plug in the batteries. Kevin Coll of Fused Film? Did I get it right?

Kevin Coll:
That’s correct, yes.

David Read:
OK, phew. I was like, “I need to update the marquee real quick.” How are you, buddy?

Kevin Coll:
I’m doing well, my friend. How are you?

David Read:
All is well.

Kevin Coll:
Are you stuck in snow and all that stuff as we’re recording this?

David Read:
Dude, it was snow, ice, snow, and …

Kevin Coll:
Same here.

David Read:
… it was ridiculous. You? Same for you?

Kevin Coll:
Yeah, the same, and the thing is, as it starts to melt, it refreezes overnight. So, the streets are bonded ice concrete blocks. Where I live, we don’t have plows or anything like that, so it’s like a mini-COVID isolation reboot again with me and my kids and my wife.

David Read:
There are certain folks out there it’s like, “Yay, we get to shelter in place again.” It’s like, “Yay? No yay. Why you yay?” I don’t get it.

Kevin Coll:
There’s no yay. My kids need to go back to school immediately.

David Read:
They do? Have they been off all week?

Kevin Coll:
They have. They have not gone outside or done anything since two Saturdays ago, I think. Whatever. Anyway.

David Read:
So, I’m trying to find this article that you sent. Could you do me a favor and send me this CBR article …

Kevin Coll:
I have it right–

David Read:
… to my email address?

Kevin Coll:
To your email? Absolutely.

David Read:
To my email, ’cause I have a hard time copying and pasting things from my phone.

Kevin Coll:
No worries.

David Read:
‘Cause I don’t have a Mac, so I can’t just copy it over.

Kevin Coll:
It’s gonna come from my Fused Film Gmail address, just so you know.

David Read:
Awesome. You reached out to me, I guess, this morning. It wasn’t that long. You sent me this article, and I was like, “You know what? This would make a really good clip.” And then I was like, “You know what? I think this would make a really good whole episode to have a conversation,” because there’s a lot at play here, and I’ll get into it in a moment as soon as we get this link over.

Kevin Coll:
Email sent.

David Read:
Email sent. Do you have anything to ask about me?

Kevin Coll:
Yeah, first off, I wanna know what’s going on with the ensemble that you’re wearing there.

David Read:
So, this …

Kevin Coll:
Please, I wanna know where I can get one, number one, but tell me about it.

David Read:
I don’t think they’re available anymore. That’s the thing. These are the genuine article, the ripstop fabric–

Kevin Coll:
That’s cool.

David Read:
This comes off? I think it comes off. No, maybe not.

Kevin Coll:
Be careful ’cause I don’t know how to sew, so you can’t–

David Read:
They’re strong. They’re really strong.

Kevin Coll:
There you go.

David Read:
This is the ripstop fabric BDU, not the vests but the jackets that they went on missions with, obviously. I’ve got a genuine Earth patch over here, and then SGC never gets love, so I’m Team Hammond and Landry, and so then the …

Kevin Coll:
I love it.

David Read:
… Air Force patch over here. This was a gift from Dean Newberry 15, 16 years ago now. It’s 9 degrees Fahrenheit outside this morning, 9 or 8.

Kevin Coll:
Is it warm?

David Read:
It feels great. It has this liner on the inside of it.

Kevin Coll:
So, David, you’re good to go off world anytime, anywhere.

David Read:
Exactly right.

Kevin Coll:
No matter the elements.

David Read:
I don’t know if this is still a thing, but this was in the back of it there, if that’s gonna… Of course not. God forbid it focuses. Sci-Fi Hero by Men-At-Arms Company. Jacket cloth WEPG8 SGC 2001-2006. That’s what that says, so I’m assuming that someone will be able to tell you what that means, but anyway, you sent me this article. You wanna tee it up for us?

Kevin Coll:
I’ll tee the article. I was somewhat surprised that CBR, number one, and I don’t mean this offensively, but is doing an SG-1 article, ’cause it’s normally not something that I’ve seen them write about.

David Read:
What does CBR even stand for?

Kevin Coll:
I think it’s comicbookresources.com They primarily are mostly comic book-related properties, Marvel, DC, all those other things, and they do the big blockbuster-type coverage of the entertainment world.

David Read:
What it is, is they’re getting on the SG4 bandwagon is what’s happening.

Kevin Coll:
They are, and they’re likely trying to build up that search engine optimization GEO stuff for the new series coming out, so let’s not let them take that over. We need to keep Dial the Gate, and our friends over at GateWorld, in the lead there.

David Read:
That’s it, man. What’s this article though? Go ahead.

Kevin Coll:
What caught my attention was the headline. They did a very good job catching my eyes with it, and it was, “26 years later, Stargate SG-1’s greatest Richard Dean Anderson episode remains a 10/10 sci-fi gem.” And they reference the SG-1 Season Four episode “Window of Opportunity.”

David Read:
So, you went straight to it there. That’s what they say is the finest hour for Jack O’Neill, and I vehemently disagree. I think that’s low-hanging fruit. How do you feel about that?

Kevin Coll:
I kinda felt the same way. When I think of a lot of the really great Jack O’Neill episodes, the first one that always comes to my mind is “The Fifth Race.” And that’s the one where, for a lot of reasons, I think it expanded the mythos of, “Wait, there’s more races out there that could help Earth.” And it really brought a lot of the mythology into play. And how his body was responding to the Ancient Gene, which we didn’t know what that was at the time, but all of that and how well he portrayed that, I thought was really fantastic.

David Read:
Couldn’t stop typing. Couldn’t stop him putting coordinates.

Kevin Coll:
Early on in the series, too, it was like, “OK, this is really, really great.” But he’s had so many great episodes. I think later on in the series, when he took over that General Hammond-type role, there was probably less opportunities for him to do a lot more of what he did off-world. But man, some of the– I’m trying to think– ‘Cause it’s been a long time since I’ve watched a lot of the series.

David Read:
Because he has to be more responsible once he’s flying a desk.

Kevin Coll:
He’s more of a diplomat. He’s a politician.

David Read:
Try to be.

Kevin Coll:
He tries to be. When he’s breaking rules and breaking rank, and it’s all to do the right thing, no matter the risk, I think that’s when he’s at his best. So, I get the whole-time loop thing. It was really well-written and that is an episode of television that we’ve seen reused in tons of different properties. They reference Supernatural in the article. But there’s other shows that have done this. It’s a well-used …

David Read:
“Cause and Effect” is one of my favorites.

Kevin Coll:
… sci-fi writing trope.

David Read:
In TNG because they used the commercials as the switch. The ship gets destroyed at the end of every act, then it resets. And there were actually people calling the stations when it aired, saying, “Something’s wrong with this copy.” And they weren’t noticing the subtle changes. So, I was like, “Guys, pay a little bit more attention to your show.”

Kevin Coll:
What about you, though? When you think of the penultimate Jack O’Neill episode, what comes to your mind?

David Read:
I will share that after I share words from our sponsor. No, I’m kidding. I’ve got… Before we got together, I put out a request about an hour ago on the Dial the Gate feed on YouTube. And I got together with a few of my closest friends here, and I wanted to check in with them. So, that’s what we’re gonna have a look here. KillerJackal95… No, that’s the wrong one. I’m sorry, KillerJackal. You’re talking in some other thread. Don Balano, “His funny interaction with Her’ak, the first Prime of Anubis.” It depends on which one he’s talking about. So, I suspect he’s talking “Full Circle.” “Failing upwards, I see.” “Is it really necessary to further antagonize him?” “Yes.”

Kevin Coll:
“No.” That’s right. Hey, real quick, not to get off on this tangent, but…

David Read:
It’s all right.

Kevin Coll:
…I don’t think this gets enough discussion around Stargate conversations that I get in with friends and family and stuff like that. I’ve always thought about this. With Star Trek, you had the Prime Directive. And with Stargate, there isn’t a Prime Directive. It’s like, “Go in and get whatever we need to help protect us against the Goa’uld.” I think that starts to creep in more later on in the series when you have the IOS and…

David Read:
The Air Force regulations apply.

Kevin Coll:
… there’s a lot more civilian oversight and things like that, governmental oversight.

David Read:
No war crimes.

Kevin Coll:
Things like that.

David Read:
Things like that don’t happen generally in the–

Kevin Coll:
But very early on, that was the deal. Certainly, that was what the non-SGC group, the secret group that was kinda–

David Read:
The NID?

Kevin Coll:
The NID. That’s more how they wanted to operate.

David Read:
Exactly. That’s what you do, that’s what happens when there were no obstacles and the gloves came off.

Kevin Coll:
But I find that area of Stargate very compelling from a storytelling standpoint. The ethics piece. We’ve talked about disclosure in the past being a really, really huge, interesting trope. And what’s funny is, there’s a new movie coming out soon with the… I think it comes out in theaters this summer, about the idea of disclosure and aliens and stuff like that with…

David Read:
Yes, Spielberg.

Kevin Coll:
…Emily Blunt. Spielberg’s doing it.

David Read:
Is this summer? Good.

Kevin Coll:
Yeah. I think it’s coming out this summer or this fall, sometime this year, 2026.

David Read:
I may have to go to the theater for that. I can’t remember the last time I went to the theater, man.

Kevin Coll:
Me too.

David Read:
May have to go out and see it with you.

Kevin Coll:
We will do it.

David Read:
Get the boys.

Kevin Coll:
I’m trying to think…

David Read:
Take them to the movies.

Kevin Coll:
… of the last time I went to a theater.

David Read:
I know.

Kevin Coll:
I took the boys to go see Lilo and Stitch, I think. Which would’ve been last summer at one point.

David Read:
Disclosure, we had some conversation when the announcement came out about Stargate going to London. Dan and I had a live stream an hour after we found out about that, and Disclosure was brought up by one of the folks in the chat. The comment was, “Could we have skipped over it, and this is post-disclosure for SG4?” That is at least a movie or a season to tell that story. You really gotta milk that. ‘Cause like Brad Wright said, “You only get to tell it once.” Let me see here. CarieQV1WN. I’m sure that sounds really cool when you say it really fast. “I’ve always liked his performance in ‘Brief Candle?'” Question mark after that on the screen here. “The one where the nanites age him rapidly. Others that come to mind are ‘Window of Opportunity’ and ‘Solitudes.'” “Solitude is also a great … That’s a great Jack and Sam– I would say that that’s a better Carter episode than it is an O’Neill. If you had to pick one of them, I’d say that’s a Carter episode over an O’Neill episode. That’s more of, if you had to pick one of them, I’d say that’s a Carter episode over an O’Neill episode because you’re following her perspective, especially as she leaves the cave.

Kevin Coll:
That is very true.

David Read:
Let’s see here. Charlotte Hardy 822, “‘Window of Opportunity’, so many lines, including ‘I wasn’t listening the first time.’ The ones others have mentioned and the crazy ketchup mustard face with all the different ways of saying crazy.”

Kevin Coll:
I think the way to answer the question here, and all this is subjective, is which version of O’Neill do you like the best.

David Read:
What era of RDA in the role?

Kevin Coll:
Not just that, but there’s the sassy, sarcastic, humorous version. There is the tortured, dying, hallucinating versions that we’ve seen in certain episodes. There’s everything in between.

David Read:
Tormented over the death of Charlie.

Kevin Coll:
There are various different versions. That’s what, again, what’s so great about the season and these types of characters, is that the writers get to do so much with them over a long period of time. There’s obviously the Kurt Russell version, which we don’t talk a lot about, but he was certainly more of a–

David Read:
It’s O’Neill’s darkest hour.

Kevin Coll:
It was the dark night of the soul, suicidal, “I’m not coming back from this, that’s my goal,” tore up with the death of his son, all those kinds of things. So, very different types of styles of Jack O’Neill. I think what made him so great though was that balance of humor and seriousness, that it made every episode. You knew you were going to laugh at some point, but you also knew that there was stakes that mattered. And how are they going to get out of this? You knew they were going to, but how were they? It was always, “What’s the angle here?” The A-team.

David Read:
What’s the angle that’s gonna get him out of there? PokeyGod99, “Baal’s torture with Daniel.” It’s “Abyss.”

Kevin Coll:
That’s a good one.

David Read:
FryJemmy, “When he has the ancient archive in his head and he dials Pegasus to save himself.” So, that’s “The Fifth Race” and the galaxy is Ida. So, “The Fifth Race” is certainly– I sent out a poll couple of months ago, maybe a month and a half ago, saying, what is the defining moment in the franchise? And overwhelmingly, 40, 45% of people said O’Neill meeting the Asgard, and the Asgard telling us, “You’ve already taken the first steps towards becoming the fifth race. Your species has great potential.” “That’s good.”

Kevin Coll:
That’s very good.

David Read:
I think that would be a huge one right there. If it was a Jack-specific though, I personally think that it would be something else. Superkuh2 says, “Season Four is ‘Prodigy,’ the gifted Air Force Academy student visits the alien moon with Carter. It highlights the everyday competent responsibility and commitment to his friends and co-workers.” That’s good. It’s also the part two with that, which is “Proving Ground,” I think, is really good too. My favorite Carter O’Neill scene is them in the commissary saying, “Fine. They’re the future of the program, the Air Force. God help us.” That is so true. Our future is in the hands of Grogan, who can’t get out of getting himself shot every mission.

Kevin Coll:
Remind me again, and I feel terrible for not knowing the answers to these because of my old age, who are the race that they encountered very early on and that main actor that kind of led the people was the guy that was in Saw?

David Read:
The Tollan.

Kevin Coll:
The Tollan. I thought those were really great episodes with Jack and how he interacted with them, and just the dynamics, the politics.

David Read:
“We appreciate everything you’ve done for us.”

Kevin Coll:
Kills me I can’t remember the name of that actor. Those exchanges I thought were really good.

David Read:
Tobin Bell. Omoc.

Kevin Coll:
Tobin Bell. Really, really good acting all around between both of them and good situations. I found one in a list, “There But for the Grace of God.” Jack …

David Read:
The alternate Jack.

Kevin Coll:
… confronting that doomed version of himself, which, again, a classic sci-fi trope–

David Read:
“You killed everyone in my family, eat the end of my staff cannon.” That was intense, ’cause once that came out, the audience knew it, and he knew that it was all said and done, and that was his fault. That was one of the great things about that episode, was, it switched positions with Hammond and O’Neill, ’cause why the hell not?

Kevin Coll:
Has “Cold Lazarus” been mentioned?

David Read:
It has not been mentioned. That’s a strong episode.

Kevin Coll:
Very different. Flipping the humor side to the grief-guilt side.

David Read:
Absolutely, that’s a very strong one, for sure. Josephovick, “Favorite episode with O’Neill is just Jack being in charge of SGC, 804.” So, that’s, I think, “Zero Hour.” “It was so special and such a natural character growth for him that I love Jack being humbled.” It was so nice to have RDA in almost every scene in an episode, if not actually the case. It had been so long since that had happened, if it ever had happened. Excuse me, Eric McCarter1763, “It’s O’Neill with two L’s. Seriously, I think the episode where he takes the young girl to school and helps her to learn to play was so me of my favorites.” That is “Learning Curve.” And it is one of my favorites. That episode and the end of “Bane” are really my Stargate chicken soup episodes. This hits me right in the warm fuzzies. I’m really hoping that Stargate, a piece of Stargate, continues to do this with the fourth series, that they’re willing to be a little bit lighter in certain areas and not pop-corny, fake, Marvel light, but meaningful light. We’re just gonna see Merrin again and her brain is toast, but we’re gonna take care of her now and we’re gonna teach them the old-fashioned way if we can. Interesting story about that, the original note for that, the original author, Heather, was it Heather Ash? I think Heather Ash wrote Learning Curve? Hang on. Wanna double-check for the proper attribution. Heather E. Ash. The original script for that was they couldn’t learn the old-fashioned way. Their brains were destroyed. And I thought that that would have been a hell of a–

Kevin Coll:
It’s a heck of an idea.

David Read:
Later in SG-1, they would have done that. Defenitely they would have gone with it. That’s the version that they would have gone with. But early SG-1, I like this ending. It’s strong stuff. Spider-Matt Gaming, “Wow, in the middle of my back swing.” Yep. So, “Window of Opportunity,” they’re really hitting it up there. So, a lot of folks really do agree with this article. It’s cool.

Kevin Coll:
What about “1969?” I haven’t heard that one mentioned. That’s a great one.

David Read:
“Captain James T. Kirk of the Starship Enterprise.” Which they would have known. The Air Force guys would have known what that was. I mean, come on. The Luke Skywalker reference would have worked ’cause that wasn’t out yet. For sure. Which one did you say was yours?

Kevin Coll:
Mine was “The Fifth Race.”

David Read:
“The Fifth Race,” OK.

Kevin Coll:
And I think that’s a two-for, ’cause I think it’s well regarded as one of the top overall SG-1 episodes, but I think it’s a great Jack O’Neill episode too.

David Read:
It’s a great hour of science fiction. For sure.

Kevin Coll:
Like I said, it’s a step in the ground to say, “This is where Stargate is going, this is what it wants to be and buckle up, and we’ll see how we get there.”

David Read:
That’s right.

Kevin Coll:
Multi-seasons and spin-offs later, and now we get a fourth series, which is–

David Read:
I know, man.

Kevin Coll:
And to me, what’s so great about it is, the fourth series still has an opportunity to hone in on episodes like that, “The Fifth Race,” because there’s so much there that could tie into whatever we get with this new series.

David Read:
I really hope that whatever idea Martin Gero has, ’cause he says it’s an original idea, I know that. ‘Cause this is gonna be a totally new chapter that fits inside the universe, but I’m really hoping on the backend there’s going to be this thread that gets tugged on, that they start pulling and pulling and pulling, and as we’re watching, underneath this whole substrata of the show that they’re building, there is a broader connection so we do get both for the price of one.

Kevin Coll:
It has to be that way.

David Read:
If it doesn’t happen, I’m OK with that because if whatever this is is successful, then they’ll have the opportunity to tell more of those stories because Amazon will be like, “That made money. Let’s do another one.”

Kevin Coll:
Let’s do another.

David Read:
And that’s why we have to be there for it. That’s why we have to give this a shot.

Kevin Coll:
And it’s advantageous for Amazon too, because then people who gravitate to the new series that have never been part of the original series will go back and re-watch those things. It’s retention on their platform, which drives even more ROI for their business.

David Read:
Which is return on investment, all you non-marketing major folks.

Kevin Coll:
I sometimes forget that I do this for a living and then people are like, “What language is he speaking?”

David Read:
He’s speaking in high-rise terminology.

Kevin Coll:
I’m speaking suit. That’s what I’m speaking.

David Read:
Suit. That’s it. Logan, “The one where Baal is torturing him.” Sub response, Panax07, “’That’s where you’re wrong.’ That line had me shook.” Yes, I think that’s the most raw that Jack gets, is when he’s with Daniel. He gets close with Teal’c, but Teal’c is like a brother/kid for him. When he gives him quarters for the vibrating bed. There’s like, “Run along, go play now.” He’s almost Teal’c’s caretaker in that regard. It’s one of the things that I wish, that in “Affinity” in Season Eight, Jack had more involvement with him, been calling him at least or something to check in on him constantly, “Are you OK? Are you good?” He would have been. Even after eight years it’s like, “OK, this is a big step. You’re no longer staying at the base anymore.” And then someone else underneath him said, “As in bocce?” TheStanleyS3657, “I lost my son.” I know.” “Window of Opportunity.” Again, Mr. Rick Cramer, “The time loop episode comes to mind, and the episode where they clone him, but the clone is a kid.” Michael Welch, the success of that episode or failure of that episode completely hinged on Michael. He really had to pull that one off. What’s your regard for “Fragile Balance?”

Kevin Coll:
It’s one I haven’t thought about in a long time. I need to process that one. David.

David Read:
It’s all good. JRussumJr, “Learning that humanity is the fifth race. I know there’s many fine points throughout the series, but that early on one was the best. It sets up the rest of the series.” That’s a very fair point, particularly because it’s in the end, it’s in “Unending.” It’s Thor’s line to us before we depart, and you see Carter taking it in. That was one of the great things about Amanda in that episode, particularly with that scene. She recognized how big a deal that would be for her to be receiving that information, and for Thor to even consider imparting it as some of his last words. I’m getting tingles just thinking about that, because we know that we’re not going to be seeing them anymore. We know that this is it for them. And this is the chance for him to say something profound to us, because they’re handing us… Rather than blowing up with it, they’re handing us a copy of everything that they are, everything that this civilization is, and it fits in a desk in a room. It’s mind-boggling.

Kevin Coll:
Let me ask you this question, ’cause we talked a little bit about it as this ties into the new series. Do you hope that there is– You mentioned the lightheartedness that we’d like to see, the balance of how Gero decides to go with the show. Do you want something– I hate using the word campy, but I’m gonna use it to say it. Do you want some campiness like with O’Neill and how Richard Dean Anderson portrayed him, where there is a strong balance between breaking fourth wall, lines like, “In the middle of my back swing,” to Simpsons references. Do you want there to be a character who embodies that? ‘Cause I think when I think of SGU, there really wasn’t a lot of that.

David Read:
For sure.

Kevin Coll:
There may have been a few with David Blue every now and then. But really not a lot. Atlantis had, I think Shepard was very good at doing his best impersonation of O’Neill but being also very different. I don’t know. If I’m asking the question back to myself, I’m not sure I know the answer to that either. I do think you’re right though, I think there needs to be some level of levity in the right way.

David Read:
Brad Wright is in that room, Joseph Mallozzi is in that room, Martin Gero is in that room. They all write humor very well. That’s going to be a central ingredient. When Brad says, “This thing feels like Stargate,” when he’s talking about having read the pilot for this new idea, that’s at least part of what he has to mean by that, because 100 and 200, they full-on embraced the comedy angle of the show. In my opinion, it has to be earned. It can’t just happen swinging straight out of the gate that way, pardon the pun, because we have to get to know the characters a little bit for that to mean something to us, because Rick wasn’t that way from the very beginning. He recognized that Kurt Russell is the starting point. He was very dour in the pilot with some glimpses of where he was going to go, “Well, they could be blowing their noses right now.” ”For this, you could stay at my place, let’s go.” He was feathering in the O’Neill that he wanted to portray. And it worked. So, yes, but it has to be earned through story. You can’t just switch it on.

Kevin Coll:
I agree.

David Read:
Because then it’s gonna be like, “Now that’s campy.” “But he is Jaffa. No but plays one on TV.” At Season Seven at that point, I remember watching, “Did I just hear that right? I have to unpack that for a second here.” No, that was as if Rick said that.

Kevin Coll:
You know who’s a great example of this, and you talking about earning this level of humor within a drama, is Sawyer in Lost. Because when we first meet him …

David Read:
He’s so well-read.

Kevin Coll:
… he’s very unlikeable.

David Read:
“Shut up, Lardo.”

Kevin Coll:
You don’t like the guy. But those types of moments where there’s humor that comes out in his character, he becomes likable. Even when he’s doing unlikable things. I think that could be really compelling.

David Read:
That’s right.

Kevin Coll:
If you wanna have more not cookie-cutter characters, but where everybody’s in this kind of moral gray like you have with SGU but there is a lot more ways you can embed those type of things. It makes things interesting. I actually think, not to get on– Again, I keep going on tangents now, sorry.

David Read:
You’re OK. We haven’t caught up in a while. Go. It’s all right.

Kevin Coll:
The SGU … That was one of my biggest things about SGU that bothered me, was I think they tried so hard to go the opposite direction of Atlantis in SG-1 due to the popularity of Lost and Battlestar Galactica.

David Read:
Galactica. That was a big influence from the network.

Kevin Coll:
I think those two things really… I think they boxed themselves in a lot into everybody’s gotta be kind of dark and miserable and to an extent, being lost on a ship in a galaxy you’ve never been to, hopping from planet to planet, I’d be pretty miserable too. And you’re only–

David Read:
No caffeine.

Kevin Coll:
Yeah, no caffeine.

David Read:
No, no cigarettes.

Kevin Coll:
No hamburgers. Nothing. It works when you really look at it from that perspective. I think though, from an audience expectation, there would have been some nice, again, levity to some things.

David Read:
That’s totally fair. I’m not gonna belabor the point anymore. My favorite, when I read this article, the first one that came into my mind was “Abyss.”

Kevin Coll:
I kinda was thinking you were leaning that way.

David Read:
Really? You did?

Kevin Coll:
‘Cause when I brought it up earlier, I was waiting for you to say something about it. So, it’s a good one. It’s a great one.

David Read:
“Jack. You don’t go to any deeper place than being destroyed again and again and coming back again and again.” And Daniel says, “You’re gonna cease to be the Jack O’Neill we know long before this is over. You become a fish out of water just trying to breathe.” And we see that with him, with Baal. We see it taking hold ’cause Jack is… He’s not there anymore. He’s just quietly whispering Daniel’s name, “Get me out of here, man. I’m done. I’ve tapped out.” And it’s the same type of feeling that I get when I watch a lot of “Chain of Command Part Two” in TNG where Picard was with Gul somebody, one of the Cardassians, and David Warner, brilliant episode. “There are four lights,” and before, he only admits this to Troi later on at the end of the episode. He was getting ready to say exactly what his Cardassian guard/torturer wanted him to say. Just to have a little bit more of a luxurious experience in that horrible situation, and Jack goes there, and that’s what that episode does. So, in my opinion, “Abyss” is it. “Window of Opportunity” is up there. You have a wider play, I’ll grant you, of highs and lows in that episode in terms of the amplitude of Jack O’Neill, if that’s the right term, I think it is, that’s definitely “Window of Opportunity,” I’ll give you that. Much more so than “The Fifth Race” or “Abyss.” But in terms of a performance, I would invite someone to tell me what episode after “Abyss” was that Rick gave as good a performance. Because I don’t think you can name one. I think that that was the last real good one.

Kevin Coll:
I think what ties that into a really nice bow too is the person he’s having the conversations with, being Daniel Jackson and Michael Shanks, the two best characters in the series. Having these compelling conversations at a very… And remind me, he’s ascended at this point? Daniel Jackson’s character?

David Read:
Yeah. He throws his shoe through him.

Kevin Coll:
That just makes it even better. I remember, again, watching this in real time, “OK, where are they gonna go with Daniel’s character now after this?” It invites so much. Man, you may have just sold me on “Abyss” being the best.

David Read:
I think that the … Is it profundity? Is that the word that I want? Little …

Kevin Coll:
No.

David Read:
… little grammar cat wordsmith here, Jeff.

Kevin Coll:
I’m usually the guy that brings out big words.

David Read:
Yes! The great depth or intensity of a state, quality, or emotion, the profundity of …

Kevin Coll:
It’s a good word. All right, profundity.

David Read:
… of “Abyss” is really epic for Stargate. You can’t get something like that, as far as I’m concerned, in a Doctor Who or a Warehouse 13 or a Eureka to actually go there. Those are campy, in my opinion. Some of them work, some of them don’t, in my opinion. It’s all there. It all plays. And it’s solid stuff, man, for sure. Hit me up in a couple of days and see if that’s how you still feel. I’m very curious to know.

Kevin Coll:
Now I’m gonna go back and watch this episode tonight. I think that’s what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna watch them both back-to-back and see what we get.

David Read:
Start off with “Abyss.” Then you’ll ride it out in “Window of Opportunity.”

Kevin Coll:
Flip it back.

David Read:
You have been working on something that you didn’t tell me about. And I’m honestly a little bit hurt about, but that’s okay because we’re talking about it now. And because I love you, we’re having you on to talk about it an hour after I heard about it. Tell me about Collide. What is this thing?

Kevin Coll:
“Collide: The Series,” it’s a project I started 10 years ago, right as I was getting married, and it was an idea I had. Before I get into it, there has always been this passion of mine to wanna start writing, and I never knew exactly what I wanted to write for, who I wanted to write for, and the medium of which I wanted to write for. Was it TV, novels, whatever? And whatever little clout I had left in the industry from the fusefilm.com days, I was like, “If I ever have something, I’ll send it to somebody and get some feedback and see where it goes,” and was ready to have all expectations shattered, as competitive as the creative world is. People either have already had the idea and it didn’t work, or they don’t like the execution of it, whatever. I think I was afraid of where I would end up, and so I kept working on this idea in the background over the last 10 years. And finally, I said, “To hell with it. I gotta do this.” And I think the inspiration is my kids, that when you have something creative you want to do, see it through. Don’t worry about distribution and all of those things. Those things will figure themselves out. But get it out of your head. And so that’s what I wanted to do. So, what is Collide: The Series? Collide: The Series now is a self-published book series that I’m writing. The first book is called No Matter What, and it will release February 16th, 2026, on Barnes & Noble and Amazon. And it revolves around these two characters, Isabella and Weston. The dates are very important as you read the series.

David Read:
You’re already thinking ahead.

Kevin Coll:
I know. Watch. We’ll see, maybe one day. But it’s set during Christmas time, and it’s this painful breakup in a train station, so I’m giving everybody a little bit of insight into the first chapter, and they make a decision to set a pact to meet 10 years later.

David Read:
That sounds a little like Desmond and Penny in Lost.

Kevin Coll:
A little bit like that, and a little bit Before Sunset, if anybody’s ever seen that movie. But as the book flashforwards to 2012, the circumstances of an impending reunion get thwarted by all of these external events. There’s a bombing at a concert that occurs, and there’s a mystery tied behind what Weston’s been up to over the last 10 years, since that parting of ways in the train station. And we find Isabella as this very self-assured trauma surgeon at Mass General in Boston, where the whole story takes place. It’s a series of near misses and countdown to the impending reunion. And so, the theme of the story really is love is easy to promise, but showing up may cost everything. And that’s really the story I wanted to tell. I didn’t set out to tell a medical drama or a spy series, although that has a lot of those things colliding together within the story. But it really is about these two characters, Weston and Isabella, who, no matter what, have to make a choice.

David Read:
So, is there any sci-fi in this at all?

Kevin Coll:
There is no sci-fi. However–

David Read:
I did not expect that from you. I’m honestly surprised.

Kevin Coll:
There’s a little… I think I’ve never shared this with your audience. My favorite author of all time is Michael Crichton. I have every single one of his books, read every single one of his books. So, there is a techno-thriller vibe to it. I don’t want to spoil it. I want people to read the book and find out what that is.

David Read:
You’re not gonna pull a Dark on us.

Kevin Coll:
So, there is… I talked about these circumstances that start to keep them from being together, one of which is a piece of the medical drama that involves some potential technology, I don’t wanna give anything away, that creates a medical mystery that nobody can explain. And this guy’s injuries defy science, logic, and every system meant to protect him. It requires everything that Isabella is as a doctor and a person to go against her training and paradigms to figure this out. And so, there is a lot of sci-fi in that and what’s causing these type of issues. And the whole book itself, the first book really is a prologue to the second book. So, like I said, I wrote this as a series. So, it is a trilogy. This really is the first act. It sets up these characters. I think when the reader reads this, there’s gonna be questions that they have that don’t get answered, and that’s intentional because those questions will get answered in the next book. I really looked at this almost like episodic television in how I wanted to write this, because I wanted it to be something where you could come in and out and read them. They’re very quick reads. The first book’s 190 to 200 pages depending on which format you get. And it goes by pretty quick.

David Read:
The formats have different lengths?

Kevin Coll:
Formats would be paperback, hard book, eBook. So, the page numbers vary depending on which one that you get.

David Read:
I see what you’re saying. They’re formatted. Got it.

Kevin Coll:
The second book, which will come out in the fall — actually late summer — will be No Matter the Cost. And the third one planned will be in the winter of this year, and that’ll be No Matter the Consequences. It really builds… And the second book, I think, is gonna be a little bit more sci-fi. I don’t want to spoil anything, but AI is a very big piece of it. I figured I’d capitalize on that.

David Read:
The fear and loathing?

Kevin Coll:
Yeah, absolutely. But, at the end of the day, these are fun stories that I wanted to tell and to start going down the path of becoming an author and trying that out, so hopefully people will gravitate to the stories and like them, and you can go to collidetheseries.com, where you can read more about the books, and there’s links to Barnes & Noble and Amazon where you can order. I’ll be clear, the Amazon link is not …

David Read:
It didn’t.

Kevin Coll:
… working right now.

David Read:
I tried to click on it. The Barnes & Noble one was really draggy, so check that one out, too.

Kevin Coll:
The Amazon one, I think there’s an issue with how I set it up with– I’m learning how to be a self-publisher, so bear with me.

David Read:
But it won’t be out by the time this thing comes out next week.

Kevin Coll:
It comes out, there’s a countdown clock, so 14 days, 10 hours, 48 minutes, and 44 seconds. Everybody will be able to get it at these places, and I appreciate the support, number one, from the community, if this is the kind of stuff you like.

David Read:
December 2012, is there gonna be any Mayan calendar connection?

Kevin Coll:
No.

David Read:
No?

Kevin Coll:
No.

David Read:
Really? OK. Fair.

Kevin Coll:
No, I really just wanted to tell a story during Christmas time, and it worked out that way. But no, actually, the timing is when I first started writing these, because I think I said 10 years ago. That would’ve been about… It was a little bit more than 10 years ago now, I think. It’s 2026 now. So, I did start writing these probably in… it would’ve been about 2002. No, 2012, excuse me, is when I started this. The backstory was… I don’t wanna spoil it. There is a huge…

David Read:
Don’t.

Kevin Coll:
… reason why 2002 is a huge number and even the year before that, 2001, plays into the backstory of one of the characters, which you don’t really find out until the second novel. It’s in the prologue, actually. I just finished rewriting that about a week or two ago.

David Read:
Is it hard for you to keep your head down, or are these things just coming outta ya?

Kevin Coll:
They’re coming out, man. The other day, I was cooking outside on my grill, and I was looking up at the stars, and I don’t mean to sound cliche about it, but it was like… just a trough of ideas were hitting my head.

David Read:
At nine degrees outside? I suspect they were.

Kevin Coll:
Yeah. A trough of ideas.

David Read:
“Get inside the house.”

Kevin Coll:
I came back inside, and I flipped open my laptop at the kitchen table, and kids are running around, and my wife’s over there doing something, and she’s like, “Are you working?” I was like, “I have these ideas. I have to get them out. I don’t want to lose them.” I’ll do dictating on my phone and things like that. The other thing I’m doing with this, if fans gravitate to this and stay tuned to the site, Collide the Series, I will be blogging about my process and giving people insights into how I’m learning how to be an author, how I’m learning to be a publisher. But also, there’ll be materials in there about why I made certain choices about things and stuff like that. So, hopefully, people get to take this ride with me on how I’m learning how to do all this, and I by no means have went into this wanting to do a New York Times bestseller. I’m sure that there will be a lot more criticism than there will be positive reviews. And I’m OK with that. Again, I’m learning through this, and I have a red file on my computer of so many more ideas of stories I want to tell, so this is only the beginning. Nothing’s gonna stop me at this point.

David Read:
Congratulations to you.

Kevin Coll:
Thank you.

David Read:
What are you thinking? Are you thinking about an audiobook at all?

Kevin Coll:
Absolutely, there will be an audiobook. I have this great mic here, so I think I’m gonna record my voice and do all of the audio work myself, and then I gotta figure out distribution-wise how to set that up. I think there’s a way to go direct through Audible.

David Read:
I think you have to give them exclusivity if you want to do that, and their tiers for reimbursement I’m not thrilled with, but there are some options there for sure. Congratulations to you, man. This is fantastic.

Kevin Coll:
Thank you very much.

David Read:
There’s two timelines, or is there potentially three? I’m detecting a 2022. Is there a possibility of that?

Kevin Coll:
Maybe. Maybe that’s where the third book might be picking up.

David Read:
Let’s set another date.

Kevin Coll:
Tell you what …

David Read:
I’m just suspicious.

Kevin Coll:
… I’ll come back after the summer, hopefully I’ll be on before then, but we’ll do another discussion around this in the summer after the second book comes out, ’cause I think by that time, the third book will already have the manuscript done.

David Read:
Wow. OK. Very good. That’s awesome, dude. I appreciate you taking the time to hang and talk about Jack a little bit, and…

Kevin Coll:
Absolutely.

David Read:
… explore that. I really appreciate you passing along the idea. It’s things like this, it’s like, “Oh, we can talk about that. Absolutely.”

Kevin Coll:
I think it’s a great conversation. It’s a lot of fun to go back and rehash those kind of things. Maybe we need to have a “What’s the best Daniel Jackson episode?”

David Read:
That’s not a bad idea. LT530, “I’m glad others are also thinking of ‘in the middle of my backswing’” and LGD6619, “He united people of many worlds and gained Earth allies. That would ensure our future. Seems like a pretty big deal to me.” Of course, over the show, yes, absolutely. Trying to pin you guys down to a specific episode. Everyone wants to go, “All of them!” But it’s awesome to have you back, brother.

Kevin Coll:
Thanks, man. I appreciate you having me.

David Read:
All right. I’m gonna go ahead and wrap up this episode here real quick. My name is David Read. You’re watching The Oral History Project. That’s Kevin Coll with Fused Film. Tremendous thanks to the folks who make up my production team and my moderators, my video editors, my archivists. Y’all are so important to chugging this thing along. If you enjoyed the show, please click the like button. It does make a difference and will help us continue to expand our audience. And if you have some Stargate friends out there, get this over to them because we’re just gonna continue to grow and continue to create more Stargate content, not just because we like to but because we have something really exciting to look forward to later on this year as they go into principal photography and in 2027 as they go into post-production. Hopefully we get to see a look at this thing, Stargate 4. My name is David Read for Dial the GateI appreciate you tuning in, and I’ll see you on the other side.