While what we see on film is defined by the director, the camera operator is responsible for execution. Ryan Purcell joins us to talk about filming alien realms in Stargate Atlantis and Universe!

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Dial the Gate, Episode 378, The Stargate Oral History Project. I’m David Read, and I appreciate you being here. We are really going to start cranking these out as we move towards the end of Season Five, because a little Stargate show got announced by Martin Gero and company, and it’s building some momentum, but I have the pleasure, week in and out, to bring folks in who were a part of creating that legacy that we all clamor for today. I have never had a chance to talk with someone from the camera department, and from what I’m told, this one is one of the nicest guys. Rob Fournier said that. He says hello, by the way. Ryan Purcell. Camera operator. How are you, sir?

Ryan Purcell:
I’m very well, and you? Thank you so much for having me.

David Read:
I am well, indeed. How old were you when you first started looking through a lens? I am curious. I was four with a Fisher-Price tape recorder. How old were you? Let me guess, you discovered it before you were out of diapers.

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah, I did. I’ve always loved cameras, and then in high school when video cameras were starting to come along and you could actually… Teachers were letting you do, rather than writing a paper, you could actually film a paper. So, that sparked that. And then all my buddies who were big-time skiers, and I was somewhat. I started to shoot all the ski movies for them, but I didn’t want to get hurt for basketball, so I would be at the bottom of the cliff watching them do all the cliff jumping.

David Read:
“You’re doing great. It’s great. It’s looking beautiful.”

Ryan Purcell:
As they’re taking their knee in their teeth and stuff like that. No, I was very happy to be filming it.

David Read:
What is it about capturing the perfect shot that just sucks you in? Because sometimes it’s ballet on a little screen. It’s like capturing the perfect image. There’s something captivating about it.

Ryan Purcell:
It’s magical, and when you get everybody on board, especially if you’re doing a oner, and everybody knows it’s a oner, and you have everybody showing up to watch it. There’s not many jobs behind the camera that are performance positions, like the boom op, focus puller, dolly grip, sometimes props people and what have you. But for the most part, camera operator is one of the performance jobs. So, it’s pretty exciting being able to pull that stuff off.

David Read:
There’s so much to it, Ryan. Everything really hinges on… ‘Cause you are where we are seeing, as an audience. And for better or for worse, the visual is, at least 85, 90% of what most audiences are taking in. Audio, sound design, music, those things really are, in many respects, a distant second, as much as I, an audiophile, would hope that that’s changing as we move forward. But when did you decide you wanted to do this professionally? How did you get into this? Before I get too deep into the Stargate weeds and what you’re working on now.

Ryan Purcell:
Well, I got into the film industry by accident, in a lot of ways. My best friend was a grip right out of high school, ’cause his brother was a grip, and then…

David Read:
So, what is that?

Ryan Purcell:
A grip?

David Read:
We’re talking to a bunch of laymen. We see a best boy… You know, we’re going through the credits. We’re like “What is that?” And then we Google it, and then it gets lost in our brains.

Ryan Purcell:
They’re in charge of… They help refine the lighting. They help do all the mechanical rigging. They help all the other departments out. They’re in charge of moving the camera, like the dolly, the technocranes, cranes, all that kind of stuff. A lot of people say they’re the heart and soul of the departments in a lot of ways. They’re really integral. They’re amazing. And a dolly grip is… Some people say they’re a poor man’s operator. Because they work so tightly with the operator to pull off the shot on a crane, jib-arm dolly, what have you. So, they’re right there with the operator, And so, often when the director comes over and says, “Hey guys, what’s going on with the shot?” It’s both of us trying to figure out what is going on, how can we fix it.

David Read:
So, he’s kind of like your Batman in the trenches, you know? In war. They’re standing by, ready to assist.

Ryan Purcell:
Big time. The grips are the heart and soul of the industry in so many ways. So, I started off as a grip. My buddy got me in ’cause I wasn’t happy at the job I was in. I got in as a grip. Very, very soon after, became a dolly grip. And then, pretty soon after that, realized, OK, I don’t wanna be lifting this dolly up seven flights of stairs when I’m 60, so what other jobs kinda look interesting? And then I saw the Steadicam operator, and I was like, “OK, that looks, that looks like a challenge.”

David Read:
What year is this?

Ryan Purcell:
This is around September 11th, ’01. I was thinking about it around… I was on Dark Angel when September 11 happened. And sometime around then, in my late 20s. And then I just realized, OK, I tried it on, realized it’s really difficult, and it looked like a challenge. And then I saved my ass off and bought one, and then practiced my ass off, and all the experience of being a dolly grip was a really good way of transitioning. And then kinda went from there. It’s actually pretty common now. Probably some of the better operators, at least in Vancouver and Western Canada, are all former dolly grips. It’s kinda hilarious.

David Read:
There seems to be… There’s so often an organic path, and then some of them are like, “Really? Well, I didn’t expect it to come from this way. All these guys really are coming over from this particular…” Some of it’s just counterintuitive. It’s like, well, these people were doing this and now they’re doing this, and others, it’s like well, this just makes sense, step to step to step. But if you have an eye, and a director is noticing, all the more power to you. That’s the thing. And it’s not just rule of thirds, framing. We could geek out on that for at least an hour, that kinda thing. There’s more to it when you’re compositing a shot, is there not? What is it that you’re looking for? And how… I’m curious, how much control do you have in a show like Atlantis over how tight you are in on the actor? Or is that all set up for you? By the time we get to Universe, where they are saying, “OK, you were doing this thing. Now, we’re in the YouTube era, where Cloverfield’s out. This is more documentary style. Things are gonna be a little bit out of focus. Things are gonna be, in some cases, deliberately poorly lit.” What’s that process like?

Ryan Purcell:
SGU compared to Atlantis were very different. The freedom we had on SGU and the way to be able to tell the story with how we were riding the zoom a lot on the… Things like that, being really into the narrative and really going to town on that stuff, that was kind of a once-in-a-lifetime show. It was kinda set up originally by Rohn Schmidt and then embraced tremendously by Michael and Jim. Michael Blundell, Jim Bernard, fantastic cinematographers. And then Atlantis, we kinda had a system. I came in Season Three to take over for Nathaniel Massey, who was another legend in Vancouver, and they kinda had a system. And then, of course, Martin with his shot lists are very…

David Read:
Martin Wood.

Ryan Purcell:
Martin Wood. He knows exactly what he wants, and Will Waring as well, and Andy Mikita. Fantastic, fantastic directors.

David Read:
DeLuise, yeah.

Ryan Purcell:
Peter? Are you kidding me? The best. Absolutely the best. It’s actually funny ’cause I’m in the process of moving, and I keep one call sheet from every show I’ve ever worked on, since back in the early 90s, and I found the camera test for Stargate Universe, December 11th, 2008. All the different cameras we were testing that we were potentially gonna use. I kinda forgot about, ’cause we were testing the Sony F23, Panasonic camera, Panavision Genesis, which we ended up going with, the ARRI D21. So, this is before any of the new… That was the ARRI’s first digital camera: Red Camera, Panavision 35XL, a Sony F35, and a Panavision Platinum 2-Perf. So, two film cameras we were actually thinking of going with.

David Read:
You know how to get my blood flowing, even though it means nothing to me. That’s wild stuff, the budget that this show had, and before we get too far along, I do wanna share this moment here. This is on your Stargate Wiki page. Good guy. One of my favorite humans.

Ryan Purcell:
He’s amazing.

David Read:
And which one is this? Which camera did you end up going with here? What is that one?

Ryan Purcell:
We went with the Genesis, Panavision Genesis, which in hindsight, for an all-handheld show. And we also had the 10-to-1 zooms, so I think you’re carrying around… I don’t know how many pounds it was. Probably pushing 40 pounds, give or take, on your shoulder, for 12 hours a day.

David Read:
And now how much are you carrying typically?

Ryan Purcell:
They can, jeez, you can get down to 20 pounds. And if you even make it really small, you’re looking at 10, with just a camera and lens. And then if you wanna go the Sony Rialto, you can go, yeah. It’s a different world. That Genesis, people look back and, “What were you guys thinking?” But it was…

David Read:
It’s what we had.

Ryan Purcell:
It’s what you had, you know what I mean?

David Read:
That’s wild. OK. You were encouraged more on Universe to ride the zoom, is that what you were saying? And you had greater flexibility with the digital technology. You’re no longer carrying these great big cables around through the GVRD, we know that. Usually it’s very concise for me, like I’m on a railroad track in terms of conversation with guests. But with this one, I’m firing on all cylinders because this is what I do as well with my own camera. I’m kind of all over the place. And folks, if you’re in the chat, go ahead and submit questions to our moderators. They’re going to be taking those in, and I should probably open that document as well. Are you a Stargate fan? Did you get into the show yourself, or did you shoot it and go home? Do you separate the work that way? How do you go through it?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah, I did watch some Stargate, and I did watch some Atlantis. Honestly, I didn’t have much time. Back then, I had three young kids. Very young, and one of them had special needs, or has special needs. And so, I really didn’t have time. When you actually look at when I got in the industry in the early ’90s to mid-’90s, whenever that was, to probably only in the last few years, all the shows that I’ve missed, it’s shocking, ’cause all I used to do was go to movies and watch TV. Growing up, that’s all I did. But then when I got in the industry, all I did was go work and then sleep and then be a dad. So, which it’s shocking. People are like, “Have you seen Breaking Bad?” And I’m like, “I’ve seen a few episodes.” I really only get to…

David Read:
No time.

Ryan Purcell:
… watch stuff if I need to research it.

David Read:
That’s a good point.

Ryan Purcell:
That’s tricky. I’m trying to do better at that. Now that I’m divorced, I actually have a little more time to go and watch. One of the benefits…

David Read:
The kids aren’t young anymore.

Ryan Purcell:
Actually, the funny thing is, we decided to have two more.

David Read:
Oh, no! OK, so you end up…

Ryan Purcell:
We have five. Five.

David Read:
Oh, my.

Ryan Purcell:
We have seven and nine. Yeah, we have a 21, 20, 18, 9, and 7.

David Read:
Wow. Congratulations. You’re doing well.

Ryan Purcell:
They’re pretty great.

David Read:
I’m glad you’re gainfully employed, and it’s a job that you love doing. The problem is, it takes you away from… You’re doing the stuff that, and I’ve had this issue as well, where I would be wanting to consume this. If you’re watching a show like Breaking Bad or Pluribus, which he’s working on now, I imagine what’s happening for you is you’re looking at it far more technically than getting sucked away in the narrative. Or am I wrong about that?

Ryan Purcell:
If the narrative is really good, I definitely will be sucked into it, 100%. And/or if visually it’s so good, I get sucked into that as well. It’s that combination was when it just knocks your socks off. But yeah, I do… There are times when I’m pausing it, rewinding it, and going, checking this out, or checking out, 100%. And now that I’ve done more cinematography, I’m always looking at that as well. So, yeah, it’s kinda hard not to get sucked into the technical aspect of it when that’s kind of what your job is, and you’re always trying to better yourself. “How did they do that? I wanna check that out. What do they… Was that a drone? Was that a technocrane?” You know what I mean? So, that’s why the behind-the-scenes stuff can be fun.

David Read:
I’m curious, when you consume stuff… And other writers and other creators complain about this, or at least notice this in themselves, or musicians when they’re listening to stuff. When you watch a good composition, when you are next behind that lens, do you find yourself taking on the traits of that which you recently enjoyed the most in terms of, “Ooh, I’m trying this. Ooh, I like that,” or are you really able to partition it off? I’m curious. From you being a creator with that device, does it follow you into work? “I was seeing this…” Or maybe you’re so much in your lane by what your director has given you that you don’t have the ability to even do that for even a moment. I’m really curious.

Ryan Purcell:
Our job’s tricky because you have a director with their vision, and you have a cinematographer with their vision. So, there is a hierarchy of how it kinda goes on. And then if nobody’s really giving you their vision, either one of those, then you obviously have to put something in the frame. So, you can be a little more, “Oh, I’m gonna …” We have a saying, it’s like, “Keep making your movie until somebody tells you not to,” kinda thing. If nobody’s saying, “Hey, frame it like this,” and nobody’s saying, “Frame it like this,” then you frame it how you think it works for the narrative. Does that make sense?

David Read:
It does. So, basically, if no one’s barking at you, you’re doing your job.

Ryan Purcell:
If somebody’s saying, “Hey, short side ’em, and make it, you know, I want it right at color points,” then you short side ’em and make it in color points. But if nobody’s saying that, then OK, “You know what, I’m gonna start here and at the, I know this part of the dialogue, you can see the, you can even feel the emotion coming. I’m gonna start pushing in and tighten up and change it up a bit.” And sometimes that was kind of the nice thing on both shows, is that the directors were always pretty great at letting us do things that… Like on Atlantis, we did have zooms and I’d always have the microforce, which is the zoom control, and there were times when you’d just start doing a slow, slow push in when the narrative is kinda sucking in, if that makes sense.

David Read:
You’re doing that with the camera.

Ryan Purcell:
You’re just starting to…

David Read:
Pulling us into it.

Ryan Purcell:
… do a little bit of a– Because I, as a viewer, am getting pulled into it. So, I’m, “Well I gotta push in. Are you kidding me? I wanna be in their space.” And so, sometimes the directors wouldn’t tell you and you’d just do that, and then after they’d go, “Hey, that was great. That worked well,” and kind of pat you on the back. And that was kind of the fun thing about our job is there’s times you can add stuff, or the really nice thing is when the focus pullers, you put the camera in a position and the focus pullers tell that story. ‘Cause it’s not always about the person talking. It could be the person who’s in profile listening to what is going on.

David Read:
Please define a focus puller.

Ryan Purcell:
A focus puller is the person who focuses the lens, is a first assistant, or focus puller. Like John Smith, our fantastic producer.

David Read:
Line producer?

Ryan Purcell:
Line producer, amazing man.

David Read:
And full producer, but yes.

Ryan Purcell:
His son Ted Smith is a focus puller. Season Two of Stargate Universe, the operator, Grizz, was my focus puller on Season Three, Four, Five, and Season One of Atlantis and Universe. So, he’s an amazing storyteller. Fantastic storyteller. And he’s one of the best focus pullers I’ve ever worked with. And then in Season Two we officially upgraded him to operator, and it just made sense because he’s a storyteller. And so, he now could do it with framing as opposed to with focus. Does that make sense?

David Read:
It does. I didn’t realize that framing and focus were two different people. So, you had four sets of hands for those two jobs. OK. That makes total sense. You’re busy compositing the shot.

Ryan Purcell:
Focus pullers not only pull focus, they build the camera in the morning, they change all the lenses. They essentially run the department. They make sure all the equipment’s coming in and going out. They make sure personnel’s coming in and going out. A guy like Grizz, he was so talented on running the department in every way, shape, or form, but also we could give him a C camera and he could go off and do a second unit and be a fantastic operator. He’s one of the most talented. He’s actually now the operator on From in Halifax, the Netflix show From?

David Read:
I can’t wait to see it. I’m waiting for a couple more seasons to air. Yes, I can’t wait.

Ryan Purcell:
He’s in Halifax doing that. But he’s one of my closest friends. So, he was my focus puller on Atlantis, and then he did also Stargate Universe.

David Read:
Sounds like someone I’d love to have on when he’s got a break.

Ryan Purcell:
And a talented actor too.

David Read:
Really?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah. He does it all. He’s amazing.

David Read:
Can we speak for a moment to the opportunities that Stargate Productions, Kawoosh, that they all enabled for so many below-the-line people to grow? Like, you guys really had a safe space to be creative, to stumble, to pick each other up, and to improve on your talents. And those who didn’t get knocked down in the daily hurricane and who came back going, “All right, coach, what’s next?” And who showed that they had talent got promoted internally. There was just opportunity there for people who had the drive and initiative, and who were willing to be there just as long as John Smith was from the beginning to the end of the day. That’s something really awesome.

Ryan Purcell:
If you look at John Lenic, another perfect example. Fantastic human, and also a fantastic producer, and he started off, I believe, as an office PA.

David Read:
He was a kid.

Ryan Purcell:
An assistant or office PA, I believe, and then made his way. Fantastic. Grizz is another person. Will Waring, I believe he came in as a day call operator, ended up being a director. You’re totally right. There’s some amazing… Look at Bam Bam, James Bamford, you know?

David Read:
He directed too, ultimately.

Ryan Purcell:
There’s so many talented people. When I was going through this, the crew list and call sheets and looking at all the people that we used to work with and where they are now, and the talent that these people… It’s ridiculous. They grew so many fantastic… Martin who’s about to start this new one, look what he’s accomplished. It’s fantastic. It’s so cool. I love it.

David Read:
So, you are a part of a union, yes?

Ryan Purcell:
Yes.

David Read:
OK. So, how does that work when Martin Wood says, “I want Ryan for this.” Do they have the ability to go… How does that work when you are a part of this, or is there a line? I’m curious. Can you tell me about that system, how that works? Or are you, can you be more of a free agent? I’m curious because literally on set, when I was there just as a reporter, I wasn’t allowed to pick something up. There was a person there to pick that thing up. I wasn’t allowed to do certain… I’m not… I can’t remember specifically what it was, but I could get someone in trouble if I did that. And I’m just curious as to where the process is for you in terms of getting a gig. Maybe I’m over-complicating it.

Ryan Purcell:
No, no, no. So, the big union in the world is IATSE, which stands for International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees. And that, they have a bunch of different locals. So, the local in the US for camera is 600. Up in Western Canada, it’s 669. And then out east it’s 667. So, yes, we are in a union. But we essentially are all free agents. So, any producer at any time… Speaking of producers, George Horie, who was another fantastic human. He just called me for a pilot that’s coming to town that I’m gonna be doing, right? And so, it’s one of these things where you get calls all the time, and you’re essentially a free agent, but it falls under the union guidelines. But no, we are 100% free agents. I could go work a commercial tomorrow, and then be back on a union show the next day. And then I can go work an independent for the most part. But yeah. No, it’s… The union doesn’t really want you doing too many non-union shows. They’d rather have the show be union and then everybody get their benefits and protection, which makes sense. But sometimes it just, money-wise, it doesn’t work that way.

David Read:
So, there has to be a little flexibility built in, for those opportunities too. So, that’s cool.

Ryan Purcell:
But as a grip I was in IATSE 891, and props are in that one too, and there’s other departments that are not. So, actually, as a… Because I’m also an 891, I can move a C-stand or I can move, you know, some stuff if I happen to be, and not get my hand slapped too bad ’cause I can say, “Hey, I’m in the union too.” So, you can’t, you can’t shame on me, so…

David Read:
Right, exactly.

Ryan Purcell:
So, that’s kind of… So, I’m in two unions.

David Read:
OK. So, your focus puller is basically the Rob Fournier of the guns. Cleaning them, you know, making sure that they’re XYZ, they’re taken care of in a certain way. Can you give me a basic idea of what an overall day for you looks like in terms of prepping? How far in advance are you looking at the material that’s going to be shot? Do you just get it that morning and say, “OK, this is…” How does that work for you on… What does your typical day on Stargate look like?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah. It definitely depends on the show. I just finished a show. Do you know Mike Flanagan?

David Read:
I know the name.

Ryan Purcell:
He did Haunting of Hill House and he’s a big-time horror director.

David Read:
Yes, that’s right now. OK.

Ryan Purcell:
Well, I just finished an eight-part series, the remake of Carrie. They’re doing a series.

David Read:
I can’t wait to see this.

Ryan Purcell:
You know the horror movie, Carrie?

David Read:
Yes. I think Tahmoh Penikett is in it, if I’m not mistaken.

Ryan Purcell:
There’s a… It’s kind of all of his usual… He hires a lot of the same actors. So, it’s a lot of the same actors. But he’s great, and he’s a cinematographer that I’ve worked with a bunch of times, Michael Fimognari. They do a thing called shot lister where they literally, every shot throughout the day and for the whole episode is all pre-done. And essentially you know exactly what you’re getting into no matter what. You almost know the exact piece of equipment, exactly where it is on the little map. It is amazing.

David Read:
So, it depends on the creators.

Ryan Purcell:
Exactly. So, then you go look at Stargate Universe, completely different, right? You come in, you know the script ’cause you’ve read the script, right? And for the most part you might check the sides, what they’re gonna be, the day before. But this is also back when everything was kind of paperwork. So, unlike now where you’re getting everything emailed, you have a better ability to go and see what is happening the next day. But back then you’d pretty much, while you’re having breakfast, you can flip through this. You know what the sides are?

David Read:
Yes. It’s the roadmap of the day.

Ryan Purcell:
Exactly, yeah. So, you see on the call sheet what’s being shot. You have an idea of who’s in, what’s going on. You sometimes know, OK, well, if we’re in such and such stage, you know, oh, we’re probably gonna have a crane because we usually have a crane in that stage or what have you. So, it would all just kind of depends. But, you know, or if we had the kino camera, then we know we have to have that little mini steady-cam ’cause I did all the kino stuff.

David Read:
That one up there.

Ryan Purcell:
Oh, there you go.

David Read:
Yep.

Ryan Purcell:
I love it.

David Read:
That’s one of yours.

Ryan Purcell:
There you go. Yeah, I ran… You remember the one in the forest or in the jungle?

David Read:
Yes, that the “Time” episode with David. Didn’t David Blue have a thing on his head for that one?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah, there was, but a lot of the time, it was my hea… I was wearing a helmet with a camera. That was a lot. When the thing exploded and shot at the camera? That was me. Of course I hid… One time I hid too late and got all the mud in my face.

David Read:
Oh, no.

Ryan Purcell:
Hit me right in the face.

David Read:
OK, so back up. Tell us, is this actually out in the forest? Or is this in a set that was designed to look like a forest?

Ryan Purcell:
No. You should’ve seen it. They took a stage and they brought in, I don’t know how many dump trucks full of sand, and they made a jungle. It was insane. I’ve never seen anything like that before. It was…

David Read:
Let me pull this up here.

Ryan Purcell:
… absolutely insane.

David Read:
So, it’s this one here, right?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah.

David Read:
“Time” is one of my favorites of SGU. My framing sucks, Ryan. I’m sorry. I’m very embarrassed right now.

Ryan Purcell:
No, no. Stop it. Stop it.

David Read:
And they had the squid creatures that were flying into people and then flying out of them. And most of it, or a lot of the episode, was actually done on David Blue’s head, but it couldn’t have been the whole thing, because a lot of the time the kino was floating around.

Ryan Purcell:
And I think any time it was probably on David’s head, a lot of the time it was me.

David Read:
So, you had to get into David Blue’s head.

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah, exactly. ‘Cause you had to wear the backpack, there was a backpack, a Pelican case full of all the recording stuff, which was essentially like this thing here, so it’s essentially this size here. This massive… You have to…

David Read:
You’re carrying that?

Ryan Purcell:
You have to wear that as a backpack. And then there was one point where I think I still actually have a compressed five-six in my spine from running through the jungle, and then I pretended I tripped, but I actually did trip on purpose to make it look like he’s falling. Remember, he’s running around… I’m not sure. It’s hard to know how much they end up using it, but there was one where I literally dove face first into a puddle with the thing on, and the backpack, I forgot how heavy it was, literally took me down and I could just feel my neck go crack. I was like, “Oh, that was stupid.” But yeah. That’s stuff you do.

David Read:
You feel that to this day?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah. Oh well.

David Read:
No, not “oh, well.” I mean, I understand what you’re saying. You’re OK. But at the same time, it’s a commitment to get the right shot, and that’s…

Ryan Purcell:
No, it is.

David Read:
… and that’s the cross that you bear, pardon the pun.

Ryan Purcell:
Especially doing the Steadicam and the handheld. It can really take a toll. I remember there were times back– I did a spy show in Prague– and I remember coming back to the hotel one time and I could just stand in the mirror and my body, it was like this. My right shoulder was just down and I’m like, “What, what’s going on?” And I realized, “Oh, that’s just from wearing the camera all day on your shoulder.”

David Read:
Your body’s gotten used to that position.

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah. It’s hilarious. But no, an average day can look like you start off the day, sides, try to get into thing, and then you watch the blocking and see what the director wants to do, you see what the actors want to do, and then depending on if it’s, OK, are we gonna do a couple of different wide shots as masters to let the actors get into it. Sometimes we might start off, “OK, you know what? This is all gonna work as a loner. Let’s try to do it as a loner.” So, you never know. Will Waring was always really good at designing some amazing shots that were always really, really tricky. And Martin Wood too. I’ve done some of the harder Steadicam shots I’ve ever done in my life ’cause of that man. I swear to gosh.

David Read:
How is that? How is that the case? Can you illustrate his technique that causes that effect?

Ryan Purcell:
He would go and design these shots that… There was one in Atlantis where I started off, there was these pods in a, it was in some spaceship, I can’t remember now. But I had to back out of these little doors that had a little foot thing that was about, I don’t know, a foot or so wide, on a little door. So, I had to get in front of Joe, and then backing up as fast as I can, getting through these, I think, two doors, and then letting him, I was leading him. And stuff like that. It was insane. Yeah, that might have been it. There was these… Was it those ones? It was more in, it was more in almost like a naval craft, like a navy. It was not… I’d have to…

David Read:
OK, but something like that.

Ryan Purcell:
Anywho. But something. There’s a shot, I think actually in Martin’s IMDb of him in that, if I could find that.

David Read:
No, go ahead. You keep talking. I’ll keep digging. So, he’s making a composition.

Ryan Purcell:
He’s saying, “Hey, I want the camera to do this, and you need to do it on the Steadicam. I need to lead, follow, three-sixty, step, get on a crane, lift up to a balcony, we’re gonna take the railing out and come off the balcony.” Some of the things on Primeval, I did with him as well. Some of these shots he would design were just next-level difficult. But it was so much fun, and the crew would get together and we would all pull it off, and the actors would pull it off, and it kind of brought me back to playing sports, where it’s… And that’s one of the things that actually I really love about the job, is that it is very athletic, and it brings me back to when you need to perform in a game. And you’re having to pull it off for the coach. And it’s great. The adrenaline gets going, and it’s really fun.

David Read:
Is there… One of the things that I wanna ask about Martin is that you may be able to answer because I’ve never really had the chance to get it from him. He doesn’t do what he called “inserts” very often. In the middle of filming a Season Six episode of Stargate SG-1, it was called “Frozen,” his family member passed. And he had to go, and Andy Mikita subbed in for him. And so, when he goes and watches the episode, he can see when Andy takes over for certain scenes because all of a sudden a ton of inserts appear. What is he talking about there? What’s happening stylistically that you can, for the layman, translate? Are they cutaways to tighter things? Is it editing choices? What’s going on?

Ryan Purcell:
Usually an insert is for that. If I look down at… Let’s say I’m talking to you and I look down at something. Then the audience is going, “What is he looking at?” So, then there’s a good chance you might do a shot of the cell phone that I happen to be looking at. And/or it’s, you know, I am talking to you and you hear a buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, and I look down. Well then, you wanna cut away to the phone saying, you know, “Such-and-such is calling.” So, that’s… As opposed to maybe being in a wide shot and seeing the person pick up the phone and look at it and put it back down. So, there’s different ways to tell that story. You can do it in an insert, you can be a little wider. But if the audience wants to know, “Wait, we hear a buzzing, but is that a cell phone? What exactly is that going on?” And it could be a pen, it could be a… And sometimes, as an operator, you can include an insert. So, if I’m filming you right now and you’re talking about wanting to kill me, and I see you look down at, which I know is a knife on the table, but the audience hasn’t seen that yet because we’re only here. We don’t know you have a knife on the table. But you give me this kinda look down at the knife, like something’s going on, and I just start to go off. Even while you’re talking, I go off and go down to the knife, and I can see your hands start to come in, and I go back up to your face. It’s one of those things, so…

David Read:
Almost like the camera is in your eyes. Like, we’re really seeing your POV.

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah, let’s tell that story. Or if you’re writing something down, but if I’m in a shot this high, I don’t know you’re writing something down. I can maybe see your shoulder moving a little bit. But if that’s pertinent information, then either we’re gonna do that as an insert, or I can tilt down and feel that and then come back up, right?

David Read:
Go ahead.

Ryan Purcell:
No, I was just gonna say, there’s that story of, I think Robert Cooper was talking about how John Smith had a pad of paper and he was writing down some of the… If he was gonna write down any good ideas he had, and he never wrote anything, right? So, you could just envision Robert Cooper…

David Read:
Oh, Glassner. Yeah. He was sitting across from Glassner when he was originally coming in to pitch this original story, and he’s not writing anything down through the whole thing.

Ryan Purcell:
Was it Glassner? For an interview. And not writing anything down. Yeah. So, a perfect example of being on Robert, doing a little push in, and he’s going, “He’s not writing anything down. He’s not writing anything down.”

David Read:
“I’m selling nothing.”

Ryan Purcell:
And then another little insert of maybe just a pen sitting on a blank piece of paper. These are all the ways… If you were gonna tell that story, then… But this is the thing. When you’re talking about inserts, there’s… But there’s so many ways to tell it, and that’s why Andy’s gonna do it different than Martin, and they’re both very different storytellers, having worked with both of them so often. They’re very different and they have their styles, and they’re both phenomenal people and phenomenal storytellers, and yeah, I miss ’em dearly. I did a little bit of Family Law, and was asked, or I was… I think I was entertained to maybe do DP one of their seasons, something like that. But I was busy on something else. But I miss those guys dearly.

David Read:
You spend more time with them, in many cases, than your own friggin’ family. Than your own kids. And there is an in-the-trenches, going back to the Batman: World War I analogy, there is a camaraderie that sticks when you have people in your creative space particularly, not just a job, who you’ve gone through things with and have been stimulated by in a creative furthering way. And there’s a power to that where you… When you have a good team, you never let go of them. You can’t. So, that’s awesome.

Ryan Purcell:
And you see that in that world, you see all the people who were there for as long as they were. I remember at the end of Season Three when I came in, I remember at the wrap party, John Smith came up to me and said, “Hey Ryan, thanks again for coming in. I really appreciate it.” And I’m like, “Hey, I thank you. It’s been great.” And he’s like, “Not one person complained about you. It’s really great.” I’m like, “Well, that’s good.”

David Read:
Line producer’s perspective, that makes sense.

Ryan Purcell:
“Oh, that’s cool.” Sure enough, back for Season Four and Five, and then brought on for Season One and Two of SGU. So, no they really tried to keep and retain people who were good at the job and who weren’t douchebags. And for the most part, they did that. There were some pretty amazing people there, pretty talented people. No, it was good.

David Read:
Speaking of, perhaps referring to some actors, who did you love to film in the two shows? Who did you… OK. I’ve got someone so in front of me today– it’s Ming. I’m gonna eat this up. Who did you love to photograph?

Ryan Purcell:
Probably I’m biased ’cause I’m buddies with her, and I think she’s one of the best people in the world by far, is Amanda. She’s such a fantastic person. But also, Luigi, Louis…

David Read:
Louis Ferreira? We had him on Monday.

Ryan Purcell:
Oh my gosh.

David Read:
Colonel Young.

Ryan Purcell:
So, give him my best.

David Read:
I will.

Ryan Purcell:
‘Cause we did, I don’t know if you know, he went off and did Motive, the cop show. And I did four seasons of that as well. We ended up going… It’s so funny ’cause, I literally… Day one of Motive, I, joking around with him and having fun, and the other operator, I’m calling him Luigi and having fun with him. And we’re giving each other fake punches and stuff like that. It was great. And then all of a sudden the other operator comes to me, he goes, “You know his name’s not Luigi, right? Why are you…What’s going on?” “You know I just finished two seasons of another show with him, right?” And he’s like, “Oh, geez, I didn’t know that.” So, he was wondering why I was so friendly with the actor day one. So, that was funny. He’s salty. Robert Carlyle, I actually ran into him in West Vancouver. And the funny thing about Robert Carlyle… So, I did a pilot called Once Upon a Time…

David Read:
I know that show, I think. It’s one of the greatest things that Disney has produced in the last few years. It’s so good.

Ryan Purcell:
So, I did part of season one, and I did the pilot. And when I showed up partway through the pilot, I’m looking at the call sheet, and I see a guy on the call sheet, Mr. Gold, Robert Carlyle. And I’m thinking, “Robert Carlyle? Our Robert Carlyle? That can’t be Robert Carlyle.” Sure enough, I look inside, I’m like, “Oh my God.” Of all the pilots in all the world, he gets to come back to Vancouver and then ends up coming another, what, eight years here or whatever for that show.

David Read:
So, he left?

Ryan Purcell:
He thought SGU was done. He’s like, “I can now be gone.”

David Read:
I didn’t know he left. I thought he was still there and he got that gig. I didn’t know it was a coincidence that he still got things. That’s funny.

Ryan Purcell:
So, his kids were really actually quite… They were sad they were leaving. And then all of a sudden he gets this pilot, which goes for however many seasons and that’s… It’s crazy. That was pretty special. But no, there was Lou Diamond Phillips. I’d worked with him before on another show, so that was great. Brian Smith is so talented.

David Read:
Brian’s a good guy. There’s nothing fake on that face. Everything is… His ability to turn on a dime emotionally is just… Did you see that? That was a Jedi thing.

Ryan Purcell:
But even, you know, David Hewlett. I got to work with Michael Beach. You name it, there’s just… Ryan Robbins. There’s just so many. It’s crazy when you start to think of… Chris Heyerdahl, he was also in Sanctuary too. There were so many. There’s just…

David Read:
He is in everything now. What a face on him.

Ryan Purcell:
It’s crazy when you start to think about… When I was going through some of your interviews, just how many people… Like Chelah, do you know Chelah Horsdal? She went to high school with me. It’s hilarious. It’s just… Vancouver is so small. Having worked on this Mike Flanagan show, and all of the guest stars that come in and all the different people, it’s crazy how many of these people you end up knowing. And so, many of them are from that show.

David Read:
They really knew how to pick talent and pick locally And so, many people were raised on Stargate up there. It was such a staple of the late ’90s and the aughts. And I can’t imagine the landscape of that town had it not been there to set the stage, not just talent-wise, but in terms of infrastructure for shows like Arrow and The Flash and some of these others that came later, that really depended on these effects houses. And the money that Stargate Productions poured into them to give them the energy to pull some of this off at a fraction of the cost that it would have cost to do it in the States. You guys really became a refuge for a lot more of the budget-intense TV that just wouldn’t have been realistic for what you’re depicting on the screen, in the States. And Ryan the group of people up there, salt of the earth. The working class Canadian I love coming on and talking with, because they’re not pretentious, they’re not full of shit, and they enjoy a good day and creating something together that is awesome.

Ryan Purcell:
Life’s too short to work with twits. And for the most part, I gotta say, we’re Canadians, we work our asses off. And we wanna do a good job and make all the Americans happy and, you know, have a, “Go ahead and come on back up. We love you.”

David Read:
Entertain your audience.

Ryan Purcell:
No, totally. Yeah.

David Read:
Stargate’s hours, were they typically more reasonable than… I know, for instance, that they were really wanting to try to stick to a nine-to-five as much as possible, to give the crew some amount of circadian rhythm and time with families. Night shoots were strictly fairly rare. Was that your experience as well?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah. They were very good at that. I gotta say. Brad and Robert and all the amazing writers, they were really good at making sure. ‘Cause, you know, when you start adding night shoots, you’re adding a lot of money, especially back then when you needed way more light. Now, you can… The cameras, the chips are so fast, you can get away with less. But back then, no, you… It was expensive, really expensive. And yeah, you’re right. It did screw with everybody’s… Because when you’re getting off at 6:00 in the morning, Saturday morning, and you have to be back at work Monday morning at 7:00 in the morning, you either, as a father, you either just stay up all day Saturday and then try to go to sleep at a decent time Saturday night. But it just, you know… It’s really, really tricky. But no, this show…

David Read:
Yeah, else you’ll be dead by then.

Ryan Purcell:
These shows were really good for that. And, you know, I guess it makes sense in a lot of ways, the fact that, you know, they’re in a spaceship most of the time. For the most part. There were times when on Stargate Universe, when it’s like February and, you know, it’s just awful outside, just awful, and you’re so grateful to be inside, playing around with the spaceship. And what an amazing set too.

David Read:
James Robbins brought Jules Verne to life with Destiny. And don’t get me wrong, Atlantis was amazing as well. Frank Lloyd Wright’s, you know taken to the nth degree. But there was something about the submarine that was Destiny. I’ll never forget walking through those halls before the first shot had even aired. It’s not lit, it’s dark, and I come into the Gate room and there’s just this looming… I can just see the outline of the ring. I’m talking about the… The word is…

Ryan Purcell:
The silhouette?

David Read:
The silhouette of it. And it’s like this is a huge, amazing space. What a set. And the fact that you guys designed systems in place where you could pump in dry ice and all this stuff, it was magic. It was just magic. They built it with steel. You know?

Ryan Purcell:
Well, when you were able to do a shot where you’re able to use so much of the space, you go from one room into the next and you transfer off to somebody else, then that takes you on a walk and talk somewhere else, and then… Oh my gosh, yeah. No, it was… It looked like it just really never ended, and it almost kinda didn’t. They were so wise the way they were able to do that.

David Read:
Where’s the exit? How do I get out?

Ryan Purcell:
Well, that’s it. No, trust me. It was very special. You kind of think back to just how great that set was and how the time on those shows, you know what I mean? I had a bunch of stuff going on with my family ’cause one of my kids has special needs. So, I personally had a lot of stuff going on, but the… You think back to just how amazing and how grateful we were to be on such two fantastic shows.

David Read:
I have a picture here from online. Is this SGU?

Ryan Purcell:
Yes. That is, I believe.

David Read:
What is that?

Ryan Purcell:
I can probably tell by the cam. That could be Atlantis. So, they had a descender rig. No, I think that’s Atlantis. That… Yeah, that was a descender rig we had, that we would, we were going, dropping down. I believe that was in the old Blade set.

David Read:
OK. All right.

Ryan Purcell:
And they had the ability, because it was such a massive set, they were able to do stuff like that. So, I’m pretty sure it was… Yeah, I think the space, if I recall, was quite narrow, so the only way to be able to pull a shot off like that was either a descender rig like that, or you can have a, put a remote head on a line and drop the remote head down, or you can get a thing called a tower cam, which is kind of like a technocrane that you can either do from the ceiling or the floor that kinda goes straight up or straight down. So, this is kind of like a poor man’s version. You didn’t need a remote head ’cause you had my sorry ass in the chair, and you just had them to just drop you down, and then you could just, you know, operate, and they just descend you like that, so yeah.

David Read:
Well, you’re buckled in. So, are you suspended like a Christmas ornament?

Ryan Purcell:
Pretty much, yeah.

David Read:
Wow. That is nuts. Were you there in Vegas? Did you go to Vegas for “Vegas?”

Ryan Purcell:
I didn’t get to go to Vegas because they needed, in a perfect world, American operators.

David Read:
Got it.

Ryan Purcell:
So, Michael Blundell, who’s American, got to go. And I believe they brought down Steve Adelson, who’s a transplanted operator. I think he got to go down, if I recall. I know I wanted to, but I think I was stuck on main unit. I did end up going to Farmington, New Mexico.

David Read:
So, was it Bisti Badlands for Season Two or was it White Sands for Season One?

Ryan Purcell:
No. What happened was, in Season One, that was pretty new into the series, if I recall. Actually, I think I have some of the New Mexico unit call sheets here. That’s hilarious.

David Read:
For Season Two?

Ryan Purcell:
For Season Two. I should send you one of these.

David Read:
Yes. The Bisti Badlands is one of the most amazing locations. If you get a chance to go folks, it is incredible.

Ryan Purcell:
It’s right here. It’s all here. Bisti Badlands, Sniper Canyon, North Navajo, Buffalo Stampede. It’s all… I’ll definitely send you one of these things. What happened with the New Mexico, the first one is, I think for the most part it went OK. Unfortunately, I believe one of the operators they brought down, or that they got there, was not very good. The other operator that Rohn brought, who he knows, was amazing. Rohn Schmidt, he was amazing. He had him on The Shield and whatnot, if I recall. But one of the other operators, they were just not up to snuff, at least for the Stargate folks. So, then when Robert was gonna go down there and do the Farmington, New Mexico stuff, he’s like, “OK, we have to bring Ryan.” He knows the show. He’s coming down.

David Read:
This is a big deal. This is… You’re doing a Western here. This is very intense emotions for this episode.

Ryan Purcell:
It was a big deal. And it was… They brought down maybe five or six Canadians. They didn’t bring down too many, because, obviously, the cost of doing that and whatnot. You just never know who you’re gonna get when you go and travel somewhere. I know when we were on a show, we were in Budapest, and we were going to Malta for some work, and we said, “OK, well, they don’t wanna bring our C operator.” Their team, the C camera team, and they were like, “OK, well get us some resumes from the crew in Malta,” and we looked at all the resumes they gave us, and none of them had really any experience. It’s like, look, we can take a chance and try to get somebody in Malta, but let’s bring ’em. Let’s put ’em on the old Russian plane with everybody else and go to Malta. And sure enough, it worked out great. They knew the show. Sometimes bringing crew just makes perfect sense.

David Read:
There is something about the landscape in New Mexico, especially in… I’m trying to pull up mine here. Here it is. Perfect. You cannot… This is all the photography that I had taken. You cannot get a bad shot in that place, Ryan. It’s just not possible. What was it like filming in these canyons? What do you remember from that pure experience? That’s a very Carlyle-heavy episode. What’s your recollection?

Ryan Purcell:
It was some of the hardest I’ve ever worked in my life, I gotta say.

David Read:
I’ll bet.

Ryan Purcell:
It was absolutely insane, because Robert also had a bit of a bad ankle.

David Read:
No. OK.

Ryan Purcell:
A lot of the time, we didn’t have radios. Operators didn’t really have radios or a thing called HME, like the McDonald’s people have. They have ’em a lot now, but back in the day they didn’t. After a shot, I’m 200 feet away or whatever, I gotta run back to the tent to say, “Hey, you liking this? You’re not liking this? What can we change? What can we do different?” You’re just… Then you’re waking up and it’s cold in the morning.

David Read:
Yes it is.

Ryan Purcell:
You’re freezing your butt off in the morning, and then it gets ridiculously hot and dusty, and relatively dangerous because of the terrain and whatnot, and rattlesnakes and all that kind of stuff. And yeah, you just… I remember I would go back to my hotel and just be out.

David Read:
See you in the morning. I’m out.

Ryan Purcell:
Thank God I did that show when I was a lot younger.

David Read:
Count your blessings.

Ryan Purcell:
But no, it was great. It was such an experience. And I remember Brian took us out to a Sizzler for dinner one night.

David Read:
An American institution.

Ryan Purcell:
American institution. That was fun. It was…

David Read:
Good guy.

Ryan Purcell:
… it was great. I remember hitting the big Super Walmart in Farmington, New Mexico. It was the people of Walmart. I was like, wow, this is a thing.

David Read:
It’s true.

Ryan Purcell:
It was amazing.

David Read:
Especially after midnight. Not so much anymore since COVID. But it really is a thing, man. That’s wild.

Ryan Purcell:
No, it was great. Everybody was super nice. The crew, we had really nice people. Good people. I’m trying to think who else. I remember the others.

David Read:
Are you good for a little bit more time?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah, I can do more. Yeah, whatever you need.

David Read:
I’ve got some questions for you here.

Ryan Purcell:
Please.

David Read:
OK. Give me just a moment. Bbbo68, “Have you ever met or talked with the other Ryan Purcell who happens to be a cinematographer?” Now that’s an interesting question.

Ryan Purcell:
Yes. That’s actually… He and I, our credits get screwed up every now and then.

David Read:
Oh no.

Ryan Purcell:
He’s based out of Seattle. He’s actually a musician as well. I think quite a talented musician. And I’ve been actually meaning to look him up and see if I could say, “Hey,” to say hi. There’s actually another Ryan Purcell in my neighborhood in North Vancouver…

David Read:
Oh, you’re kidding.

Ryan Purcell:
… where I live, where he and I are always … He goes to the same physiotherapist and whatnot, and they’re always like, “Are you…?” “No, the different Ryan.” So, that’s kinda funny too.

David Read:
Here’s your mail.

Ryan Purcell:
The funny thing is, it’s not a common name. So, it’s… I don’t think it is, but anyhow. But no, I have not met him. But I think he’s quite talented, and he and I, for the most part, I’ve been an operator most of my career. I’ve dabbled in the cinematography world, but the return on our investment with cinematography compared to operating sometimes just isn’t worth it. So, yeah. I like to operate. I like the tactile. I like to be in there operating. I like to be close to the actors. I like to be able to figure it out. So, when I do DP or be a cinematographer, I like to actually operate my own camera ’cause then I can run set. I can see what’s going on. I can see where all the light’s going. I can see what’s working, what’s not working. Nowadays, so often the cinematographer is in a tent, 50 feet away.

David Read:
Video village.

Ryan Purcell:
Exactly. And they don’t … It’s a lot trickier. So, I like to be right in there. But that’s just my experience.

David Read:
I would think too that you would have a very specific sphere of control that you’re, that you can play with, and you’re getting the shot. You’re getting stuff that matters. So, typically on SGU, Atlantis, how many cameras were typically running simultaneously? Two or three of you.

Ryan Purcell:
Usually just two. Usually just two, yeah. And every now and then, if we have a table scene in Atlantis or if there was, when all the people were coming through the gate and whatnot in SGU then we would have three, what have you. There were even times when I dressed up my focus puller, Grizz, the first season, and my dolly grip, Kent Ogilvy, I dressed them up in fatigues. I said, “Hey, look. Go to wardrobe and get in fatigues so you look like… Because if I’m doing a shot and I see you, you can’t be wearing street clothes. You gotta be…

David Read:
That’s great.

Ryan Purcell:
“… dressed.” But I kept doing it. I kept getting them, “Guys, you gotta get dressed up again.” So, by the third or fourth day they’re like, “Ryan, you haven’t seen us in days. What are you … Are you just getting us dressed up for getting dressed up?” So, I would get them to get all dressed up in the army fatigues for no reason. They had the helmet on, they had everything like that. It was pretty funny. I had played a little good joke on them for a while there. It was good.

David Read:
One of the things that Sean Astin counted the number of days his hobbit feet never appeared on film in Lord of the Rings. He said it got to the point where it was 50 days they made us stand all morning, ’cause you couldn’t sit and have them put on. They had to stand. He counted up to 50 days that they never got a frame on camera, that they had to stand. So, I can get that. “You’re having us put this on. Come on, dude. I got a job to do here.” That’s funny, man.

Ryan Purcell:
It was pretty great.

David Read:
Uriustosh, “How common is it to trip or to twitch or to mess up a camera shot during the course of a filming day? Do physical errors happen with camera crew as often as actors?” How often do you say, “I didn’t get that. I have to get that again?” Or does it not happen?

Ryan Purcell:
No, it can … I think I’ve fallen twice with the Steadicam.

David Read:
Oh, my.

Ryan Purcell:
Which is not bad considering I’ve been doing this for 25 years, or how long I’ve been doing it. I can’t remember now. So, that’s not too bad. But there’s always trip-ups and whatnot. The thing about it is, you, as an operator and a focus puller and anybody behind the camera and performing, you wanna make sure you are so dialed in And so, ready to go that when it’s time to shoot, you give the respect to the director and the actors that you don’t screw up. You wanna be like a robot in a lotta ways, and you wanna give them the utmost respect so that if anybody’s screwing up, they’re screwing up, and they have the right to screw up because they’re trying to find it.

David Read:
They’re figuring it out.

Ryan Purcell:
They’re figuring it out.

David Read:
You are one of the few constants.

Ryan Purcell:
We need to be constant. Things can evolve and things can change and whatnot. But for the most part, that’s the tricky thing. Unfortunately, with human error, it’s sometimes all of a sudden they’ve never decided to stand up during the scene, and all of a sudden they wanna stand up. But if the director expects us to take them up, but we have a backlight or we have something going on equipment-wise or what have you, or you’re just not even ready for it ’cause they’ve never stood up before, it’s a little tricky. But for the most part, no. The mistakes do happen. There’s bumps. There’s limits to your set you’re in. Like when you’re on a technocrane sometimes you definitely have somebody on the bucket swinging the technocrane around. You have somebody on the pickle making it go in and out, the pickle person making the crane go in and out. I’m on the wheels doing the remote end, and sometimes you might even have it on track. Think about all the different… And then you have the focus puller as well. So, you think about all the different people involved in a shot like that that sometimes things are gonna go wrong. Or somebody’s gonna be a half second off ’cause when you start coordinating all that stuff, it’s really tricky.

David Read:
You might as well be puppeteering Thor, as complicated as it sounds.

Ryan Purcell:
Totally.

David Read:
About spontaneity with an actor, were there instances where an actor makes a choice and it’s like, “Damn, that was gold but I couldn’t get it. Such and such is in the way behind them,” or, “Can we make this work some other way?” Like, “That was a really good idea,” or am I just fantasizing that that’s not really something that happens all that often? You need to, you need to stay on your mark and get your shot?

Ryan Purcell:
No, that definitely happens, and in a show like Universe where they were given more freedom, especially because Rohn really kind of established that. The marks are great, but if they want to deviate from those marks, we should be able to go, and especially being handheld, you should be able to shoot them almost anywhere for the most part. You don’t wanna start always crossing the line of axis if you don’t have to. You’re familiar with that?

David Read:
Yes. If you could illustrate that really quickly for folks.

Ryan Purcell:
So, essentially the line of axis is like a 180 rule of, let’s say if two people are talking and the camera always kind of picks one side of that line. So, if I’m shooting this hand, they’re looking camera right to this person, and when they’re over here, they’re looking camera left to this person. So, when you’re in the edit, it looks like they’re looking at each other as opposed to if you keep switching. You see this all the time on Instagram and whatnot. People have no understanding about the line of axis, so when they’re trying to make their own little movies, they’re switching the line of axis so it looks like the person’s talking over here and then all of a sudden the other person’s talking over there, and the other person’s talk… So, it’s like, “Are you guys talking to each other?” We know you’re talking to each other ’cause there’s only two people in the scene, but it looks like they’re talking to other people. So, that’s why we have the line of axis. Does that make sense?

David Read:
It does absolutely make sense. Because it looks… You don’t want it to look like they’re in two different conversations, so you’re kind of following their eye lines…

Ryan Purcell:
That’s exactly it.

David Read:
… into each other.

Ryan Purcell:
The eye line, exactly, that’s what it’s called. The eye line is a tight right-left, and then when you switch it, it’s a tight left look so you’re on one side, the camera’s on one side, usually the shadow side, and then the light usually is on the other side, the lit side. If you can see me right now, this side is the dark side, so I would put the camera on that side for the conversation in a perfect world, but every single…

David Read:
So, you don’t get camera shadow?

Ryan Purcell:
You don’t get camera shadow. It’s more appealing because it’s not on the flat side of the lighting. This side would be, I guess, the flat side of the lighting. So, Jim Menard would always give us crap, “Don’t be on the flat side! Don’t be on the flat side!” So, what, are you trying to get some cinematographers on your show? ‘Cause I think–

David Read:
I would love to have more people from your arena in, and I hope that this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship, Ryan.

Ryan Purcell:
Do you want me to try to see if I can reach out to someone?

David Read:
I would indeed. Let me organize this more strategically. I’m nearing the end of my season here. But we’ll be in touch for sure. Did you, I have to ask, did you film any of the underwater stuff with Richard Dean Anderson in Season Three of Atlantis? Did you get under the water with him when he was going for a swim?

Ryan Purcell:
No, I don’t recall I did. No. That might have been Nathaniel, or it might have been… A lot of the time in Vancouver we have underwater crews. So, that’s a little bit more of a specialty thing. You need to, depending on what you’re doing, if you’re actually going underwater with a respirator and everything, you have to have a commercial license and you have to be a fully… If I have a splash bag and I’m just kind of floating it on the surface and whatnot, that’s a different story. Or throw me in a pool with a little camera kind of thing, like I just did that on a show recently where they had to put sandbags all over me to hold me down.

David Read:
Oh, that sounds fun.

Ryan Purcell:
That was hilarious. Actually, the underwater person was literally pushing me down, holding me down and I had sandbags all over me.

David Read:
‘Cause you want to float. So, that’s wild, man.

Ryan Purcell:
Your body wants to float. So, that was funny.

David Read:
Marcia — I have a couple more for you here — Marcia Middleton, “Hopping on the way back machine, you worked on the Breaker High series with the young Ryan Gosling. Through your camera lens, when you’re filming these guys, do you sometimes notice actors that seem to pop more than others and just know there’s something special here, I wouldn’t be surprised if I see this person in another capacity down the road?” Do you just get a feeling? Do you sort of intuit stuff after a while, build up your own language?

Ryan Purcell:
Yes, 100%. I worked with Ryan when I was just a grip. But a funny story: at the wrap party of Breaker High, he gave this speech, and I think he was 16 maybe?

David Read:
He was a kid.

Ryan Purcell:
Maybe. So, my dolly grip that I just finished working with on Yellowjackets, Rob O’Hara, amazing man, he was the key grip and dolly grip on Breaker High, and he was my dolly grip for the last two seasons of Yellowjackets I just did. He had a Porsche that he would take Ryan Gosling out and teach him how to drive. So, my good friend Rob O’Hara was essentially Ryan Gosling’s driving teacher.

David Read:
Driving instructor.

Ryan Purcell:
Driving instructor, yes. Ryan was a great guy. You could tell he was a talent, just a force. He was an amazing kid. We had some good laughs on that show. But I do remember at the wrap party, I’ll bore you with this story quick, he gave this speech that I swear to God, he had everybody laughing, then crying, then laughing and crying. He was so articulate, and he was so funny, and he was so good. I remember going, “This kid is, holy crap, this kid is going places.” And 100%. You end up… I’m working with Adam Brody, do you know that gentleman? I worked with him on a show. Who else have I worked with? Geez, it seems like there’s a bunch of people, I’m just blanking on names.

David Read:
It’s all right. It’s on the spot.

Ryan Purcell:
There’s definitely some people you just, you get it. 100%.

David Read:
I’ve worked with Christopher Judge on a few higher-end special features for MGM, and the first thing that I notice about him is he says hello and asks everyone in the camera crew, everyone in the department who’s there how they’re doing at the beginning and at the end. He thanks them for the day. And it makes a huge difference to recognize your crew as human beings in the room. Not just because they’re filming you and you want them to make you look good, but because it’s the right thing to do and because you want to build a connection. And I think that those are the people who last.

Ryan Purcell:
100%.

David Read:
Because they’re not in it just for themselves. Or some of them are.

Ryan Purcell:
100%. I totally agree. There’s definitely some people that are gonna make you look good and give you, set you up for success big time. I remember being on a show one time where I said to one of the actors, “Hey, if you come a little bit closer on that mark, I’m gonna get a perfect close-up on you,” or, “Come a little bit closer to your right,” or wherever it was. “And I have the ability to rack to you, throw focus to you, and I could get a really nice close-up for that last little bit.” And he’s like, “No, I don’t think I would do that.” And I said, “OK. Too much? Fine. Yep, no problem. I’m just letting you know, if you wanted a really nice close…” He’s like, “OK. Tell me…” And I said, “It would look fantastic.” And then my cinematographer heard and he said, “No, don’t give it to him. Don’t.” I said, “Are you sure?” And he’s like, “No, no, no.” And the actor’s literally coming after me trying to ask for this close-up. At the moment, he was being kind of rude, and…

David Read:
Standoffish.

Ryan Purcell:
Yes. You could tell he was like, “I’m not gonna do that because that’s not what I…” It’s like, “OK, yes, I get it. I totally get it. But… We’re trying to make you look good, and we’re trying to sell this product, and we’re trying to get you more work. And this close-up, you look great. Maybe that’ll lead to something else, and…” “We’re here to make you look great and to tell this story.” Some people, whatever gets in the way, usually ego, and they fight it. You’re right. It’s a funny business. I appreciate that about Chris. I’ve worked with a few actors. Like, Jensen Ackles is another person who came to mind. I remember working with him on Dark Angel going, “Oh, this guy, this guy’s amazing.” He was only here and there, but such a great human. I almost did Supernatural the first season. They asked me to come in and do B-cam, Steadicam the first season. So, that would have been 15 years of my life. But I didn’t know he was involved, and then after the fact, I was like, “Oh, I should have taken that job.” He’s a great guy. He and Jared, they came to our celebrity charity event years ago that we put on.

David Read:
IATSE?

Ryan Purcell:
No, it was a thing called Once Upon a Cure, and…

David Read:
That’s cool.

Ryan Purcell:
It was a charity event for the disease my son has. And it was so funny ’cause at the time, I was actually working on Once Upon a Time, and the producer had… You have Google Alerts?

David Read:
Yeah. You can set ’em up.

Ryan Purcell:
He had a Google Alert for Once Upon a Time, but a Google Alert came up saying it was called Once Upon a Cure, and he looks at it and he’s like, “It’s some film industry charity event, I’m not sure what it is.” And he asked his assistant, he goes, “Hey, can you look into this? Maybe we could help and be involved ’cause the name is similar.”

David Read:
It fits right in.

Ryan Purcell:
“I don’t know anything about it. Just look into it.” Then about a day later, his assistant comes back and says, “Hey, by the way, your operator, that’s his charity and he’s putting this event on.” And he’s like, “Sorry, what?” So, he was able to get the whole cast of Once Upon a Time — Robert Carlyl — to come to this charity event. And then Amanda Tapping came, of course. She was one of our spokespeople for it. All the Sanctuary people. So, it was a full-on reunion. Jared and Jensen came, a full-on reunion for all the Stargate people. If you put it on now and you advertise it enough, it would be insane. I had people coming over from Europe to the event. But because it was a one-time thing, not many people knew about it. Only people who really came to it were the stars that I knew from all these different shows and my family and our friends, and a sprinkling of… There was maybe 20 Stargate-type of fans. But now you pull it off and it would be ridiculous.

David Read:
If you wanna do something like that again, you let me know.

Ryan Purcell:
Cheers. I appreciate that.

David Read:
I’m serious.

Ryan Purcell:
Thank you. There’s still a lot of people that I have connections with. The tricky thing about my son’s disease is they have two more clinical trials that are happening that we’re hoping they’re gonna be almost cures for it, but we’ll see. At least really good treatments, but… That’s good. But it’s…

David Read:
I want in.

Ryan Purcell:
… It’s been a long road.

David Read:
I want Dial the Gate to be in.

Ryan Purcell:
OK. I appreciate that. If we–

David Read:
Put us on that list, please.

Ryan Purcell:
OK, awesome. That’s amazing. Thank you. Thank you.

David Read:
Absolutely. Can I give you a couple more questions before I let you go?

Ryan Purcell:
Yeah, please.

David Read:
OK. Whitecastlept, “What were some of the more difficult scenes? In terms of the number of times that you had to shoot something in your time on Stargate.” What was dragging and that you managed to pull off? Is there anything that stands out? Your time on the time sets, in the jungle, or out on locations somewhere. What was just a pain in the ass?

Ryan Purcell:
I do remember one time, actually, one thing, looking at this New Mexico thing. The Technocrane is a very tricky piece of equipment, and the person on the pickle operating that thing, in a perfect world, needs to be a former operator, or a former dolly grip, or something like that. They essentially need to be an operator and understand how to use that piece of equipment.

David Read:
You’re feeling it as much as thinking it.

Ryan Purcell:
Exactly. We had a shot, it wasn’t a very difficult shot, but it was a shot that they just couldn’t pull off, and I ended up having to do the shot on handheld. And it was just sad because we had this beautiful piece of equipment that we couldn’t use because they just couldn’t figure out how to… And it was a relatively tricky move, but it wasn’t too crazy. But the problem is, if you just don’t have time using it, you’re just not gonna be that good at it.

David Read:
You haven’t studied for your exam, yeah.

Ryan Purcell:
Exactly. That was one in New Mexico. Will Waring was always really good at designing some tricky shots, and he was always very particular at what he liked. And so, there was times when… And he was a bit of a taskmaster. I’m not gonna lie. And he — I don’t know if you’ve heard any stories — but we had kind of a love-hate relationship, he and I. And so, yeah. But in the end, I feel he made me the operator that I am. It came across sometimes pretty harsh. But in the end, I feel he made me a really good operator.

David Read:
There are some people who just stick you in the crucible and you come out a stronger person. I had teachers that were like that. It’s like, “You know, I really, really hate you right now.” Not on the level of Miles Teller and what’s his face from…

Ryan Purcell:
JK–

David Read:
… JK Simmons in…

Ryan Purcell:
Was it Whiplash?

David Read:
…Whiplash, exactly.

Ryan Purcell:
Is that right?

David Read:
There are some people who are willing to push you to your limit if they know that you are going to be reciprocal and take it as a reason to grow in your talent. Absolutely.

Ryan Purcell:
Yes.

David Read:
Last question for you. “What would you say was the longest continuous shot you had to do on Stargate?” Everyone has been looking at Adolescence, mind-blowing 45-minute takes for these episodes. They did seven or eight runs of each of those. What was one of the longest, trickiest shots that you did? Lockwatcher wanted to know that.

Ryan Purcell:
I think the problem was the limitations with the cameras back in the day. The Genesis, we were cabled for most of the Genesis cameras, so you could only do so much. And if you couldn’t be cabled, we had to add a big deck on the back, which made it even heavier and more cumbersome and whatnot. We never, I think we did some half-decent ones, but nothing ridiculous, not like what you can do now. And even on Atlantis, we had the F900, which was probably four feet long, give or take.

David Read:
Oh my God. OK, so there’s fatigue that you have to factor in here.

Ryan Purcell:
That was one of the heavier cameras. I remember one time on Stargate Universe, we did a, I think it was a wedding?

David Read:
Yes.

Ryan Purcell:
And it was off… There was a slow-motion thing with Dave. I think Jeff… No, Bryan got married, if I recall.

David Read:
Yes, to Elyse. It was a dream sequence, Cloverfield… “Cloverdale.”

Ryan Purcell:
That’s right, yes. And we had some Steadicam, and we had to off-speed, so you have to put the big deck on. And I remember there was an industrial scale standing there, and I walk over to the industrial scale. I stand on it with the Steadicam fully built and everything, because I had to actually wear an extra battery belt as well. And I was at 100 pounds of extra weight I was carrying on my body for that. And that’s the thing: the Adolescence stuff. Have you seen that camera? It’s this big. It’s tiny. And you can…

David Read:
And you can attach it to a drone and it flies away.

Ryan Purcell:
Exactly. It’s such a different world.

David Read:
Remarkable technology. The last beat that I wanna leave you on is the evolution of tech. Is it equal parts wondrous and terrifying? Have you watched drones take away some of your work, especially leaving the ground? You don’t really have to leave the ground anymore, I don’t think.

Ryan Purcell:
Drones are…

David Read:
Or is it, “Yeah, I wasn’t crazy about that anyway. That’s OK.”

Ryan Purcell:
No, drones are… The nice thing is they’ve kind of replaced helicopters…

David Read:
Yes. Except for my dad who’s a helicopter pilot, so.

Ryan Purcell:
There you go. Which, in a lot of ways, helicopters are really fun. I don’t know. You obviously have been in lots, right?

David Read:
Grew up in them.

Ryan Purcell:
They’re amazing. But the crazy thing about them, of course, is they have this crazy massive engine and they’re kind of wrapped in tin foil.

David Read:
And shadow.

Ryan Purcell:
And if something goes wrong, it can go bad. You saw that footage of the one in California recently. It’s scary. Very scary. I’ve had a few people that I know who’ve died from helicopter crashes…

David Read:
Oh my God.

Ryan Purcell:
… over the years and whatnot. It’s not the worst thing in the world that we’re not going in helicopters anymore. But they are, of course, taking some jobs away, which sucks, and some livelihoods, which sucks. But also it’s opened up a new… The things that drones can do now, it’s next level. But also I think it’s all of the technology. When you add the technocrane and use a technocrane well, you could have a 100-foot technocrane that looks like a drone, starts off and then it flies down and then it can land in this close-up and then keep carrying on. And I know you can do the hand-off now with the drones, and they’re great as well, but sometimes there’s a danger factor of blades, all that kinda stuff for the most part. I don’t know. The technology stuff, it’s amazing. It’s hard to keep up with. That’s why you have to go to the trade shows and make sure you’re on top of what’s going on. But I gotta say, there’s something to be said about a handheld camera, getting in tight with an actor, right there, working a scene together. A good steady cam shot, all those things. Going in and having that emotion with the actors. It’s huge, and the disconnect when you’re on a drone or you’re on a crane and you’re not there with the actor, because…

David Read:
It’s visually stunning, but it’s not human.

Ryan Purcell:
When you take that camera off and you’re the first person they see after a scene that’s really emotional, and you have a connection with that actor and you’re like, “You fucking nailed it. That was amazing.” And you give them that wink or a hug, whatever it is. It’s everything. Everything.

David Read:
You are the representation of us. They gave that to you, and you have the privilege of being the first to be with them. Like you said, you nailed it. That’s really cool. Especially if it’s someone that you care about, you know, whose performance you’ve been sucked into.

Ryan Purcell:
100%. The amount of times you’re in a scene where somebody’s dying and you know this is gonna be the last time you see them because they’ve been written off the show. They’re done, and this is literally they’re gonna go to their trailer, they’re gonna pack up, and they’re getting on a plane and they’re done, and you’re the one, you’re the last person there with them. And that happens almost every show, it seems like. Somebody’s dying off, and if you’re on a show, a long-running show, you’ve had all this time with them, they’re your friend who you’re never gonna see again, for the most part.

David Read:
There’s an element of it that’s just not make-believe at all. Ryan, thank you.

Ryan Purcell:
Thank you.

David Read:
This has been great.

Ryan Purcell:
I appreciate this.

David Read:
I appreciate this. The work that you guys go through to continue to learn this technology and keep up with it on the cutting edge as it attempts to evolve past us in every which way that it can, faster and faster. I mean, the volume technology, that was standard four or five years ago. I hear they can’t move these things fast enough now because they’ve already moved on to AI and everything else. It’s mind-blowing, the pace of technology, and the fact that you are holding it in your hands, and you get to be there as the audience’s representation because nothing is more intimate than a close-knit group of people communicating with one another. And that’s what you’re trying to achieve. And you can either do it level, you can do it below to get a submissive, or there’s so many tricks to that. Scratching the surface with you in this was great, thank you. I really appreciate your time.

Ryan Purcell:
I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Great.

David Read:
I’d love to have you back next year. Please keep me in the loop on anything that we can do in terms of promotion for anything that we can help benefit your child. That’d be fantastic.

Ryan Purcell:
Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Thank you.

David Read:
Absolutely. I’m gonna finish the show on this end, sir, but it means the world that you came on.

Ryan Purcell:
I really appreciate it. You be well. Thanks so much.

David Read:
Thank you, Ryan.

Ryan Purcell:
All right, take care.

David Read:
Ryan Purcell, camera operator, Stargate Atlantis and Stargate Universe. My name is David Read. You’re watching The Stargate Oral History Project. As I’ve moved further into this, I’ve had the privilege of meeting so many folks who are behind the scenes, especially a couple of the editors. They’re like, “You know, we’re behind the scenes for a reason. We don’t wanna talk. Thank you, but no.” You get people who are willing to be brave and share their stories and take a chance, and sometimes it’s magic. That was really cool. Ellie Harvie is coming up in just a few minutes at the top of the hour, so 4:00 PM Eastern Time, that will be 1:00 PM Pacific Time, she’s joining us. She’s Lindsey Novak in Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis, one of the few crossovers with the same character. Tomorrow, excuse me, Monday, December the 1st, Louis Ferreira, Everett Young in Stargate Universe. I have been wanting to talk to this guy forever. So, 3:00 PM Pacific Time. I just got word, the music of Stargate, Joel Goldsmith might be postponed because hashtag reasons, but good reasons. So, I’m gonna figure that out. So, postponed again. Apologies everyone. Charles Shaughnessy, who played Alec Colson in SG-1, he’s live December the 4th. And we’ve got a whole heck of a lot of stuff lining up for you the rest of this season as we wind down in what was supposed to be the quiet exit to Season Five and then new show, So, there you go. If you enjoy this content and you wanna see more, please click the Like button. It really does help with the show to promote us, and consider subscribing. If you click the bell icon, it will notify you the moment a new video drops, and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes. My tremendous thanks to my moderating team, Jeremy, Antony, Kevin, Lockwatcher, Marcia, Raj, Jakub, Enigma, Stephen. Welcome aboard guys. My producers, I have a number of folks who make this possible, Antony Rowling, Kevin Weaver, Summer Roy, Brice Ors, Jakub Olejarz, my software engineer, Ian. Matt Eagle. SG Wilson does our amazing opening sequences with the ships from Stargate, and Frederick Marcoux over at ConceptsWeb keeps DialtheGate.com up and running. That’s what I have for you this episode. Really hope you enjoyed that. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I appreciate you tuning in, and I will see you on the other side.