The man behind Daniel Jackson returns to Dial the Gate to give us his take on a fourth Stargate series and share more memories from an extraordinary decade of television — with special guest Lane Gates!

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TRANSCRIPT
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Martin Gero [clip]:
This is so exciting. This has been a very hard secret to keep for the last 18 months, but we can announce today that a brand new Stargate series is coming to Prime Video.

Brad Wright [clip]:
What? No, that’s crazy.

Martin Gero [clip]:
Brad, this shouldn’t be news to you.

Brad Wright [clip]:
It isn’t, but it is great news.

Martin Gero [clip]:
It is a brand new chapter. It’s its own unique chapter in the Stargate universe. So, for us, it’s incredibly important that obviously everyone watching this Zoom, everyone that’s getting excited about this announcement will love the show.

Darren Sumner [clip]:
Thank you for bringing this straight to the fans. Thank you for the Stargate that you’ve made in the past. And I think I can speak for the fandom, thank you for Stargate in the future as well.

David Read [clip]:
Thank you, guys.

Martin Gero [clip]:
We’ll talk soon.

Amanda Tapping as Sam Carter [clip]:
Martin’s involved in this?

Don S. Davis as General Hammond [clip]:
He sold the idea to the studio.

Richard Dean Anderson as Jack O’Neill [clip]:
Now, if the Air Force didn’t want it to happen, they wouldn’t have let it go this far.

Don S. Davis as General Hammond [clip]:
Plausible deniability. In the event of a future breach of security, we’ll be able to point to this television program.

David Read:
Welcome everyone, to Dial the Gate: the Stargate Oral History Project, Episode 300 and something. I don’t even know anymore. My name is David Read. I really appreciate you being here. Michael Shanks, Daniel Jackson in Stargate SG-1, hey. My God. Dude. What fate Stargate?

Michael Shanks:
Did something happen while I was gone?

David Read:
Can you believe this?

Michael Shanks:
It’s great news.

David Read:
Tell us about how you found out. Martin Gero call you?

Michael Shanks:
I found out a day beforehand. Part of the rollout that’s been so neat to me, outside of the way it was done with you guys, which we’ll get into, was how it was done with us. It’s always one of these things that feels like a small detail. I get a Joe Mallozzi text, sends me a DM on Twitter, and asks me if this is still my email, And I have to text him back to say, “Did you get hacked?” Because that’s all he asked.

David Read:
He was doing that with us too.

Michael Shanks:
And so, I texted him to his phone, and said, “Did you get hacked?” And he said, “No, it was me. Expect an email.” And I’m like, “OK.” Do I ask any questions? Whatever, pictures of his dogs, I don’t know. So, we get this email from Martin. Basically, it’s this beautifully written email that talks about the new show coming, and he wanted everybody that had been involved before to know early. Because we know you are invested in this property. We know you feel protective of it, and we want you to know that you’re a part of it, a part of the success of it, you’re part of the thing that got us here. Blah, blab, blah in terms of the details. It’s so simple, right? And all that does is it gives you an awareness, “Oh cool.” And it lets you know what his intentions are with the property, rechecks in with everybody, and gives them that little tiny bit of heads-up that makes them feel like they’re respected when the thing gets rolled out, so they don’t get blindsided by deadline.com with this release, and they start emailing him separately too; part of this is to control that group reaction. But part of it is to give you the respect to let you know before the general public does, just give you that respect. It’s such a minor detail, it may seem unimportant, because we’re not part of the property.

David Read:
But you are symbols of it.

Michael Shanks:
That’s the thing. We’ve been ambassadors, we’ve all been out there stuff, and it’s just so nice. Because you see it when it’s not done, and you hear when people go to a convention, or in a chat, or even in a podcast or something, and say, “Well, I found out on Twitter.” And it goes so far to be included in that way, to feel like an insider, and that’s what’s so– Like I said, it’s respect, and even though, again, with you guys, your curiosity as to why they decided to include you, to us it’s still obvious.

David Read:
For sure.

Michael Shanks:
This property has been kept alive by you guys. And you guys are at the tip of that spear. And without the fans keeping this alive, this IP is, no offense to it, but Legally Blonde sitting on the shelf. It’s the legacy of this; the fans involved in this are part of the legacy of this show, and they’re still out there. And you guys have been keeping the light on of this. David with your show, Darren with your show, with the news and all that stuff that you’ve all– And God bless you all for hanging in there, waiting, waiting, waiting like the rest of the world, for news, and biting on any kind of thirst trap clickbait article that comes out that says that Joe Mallozzi’s dog has written the script, and we’re all gonna come back as pugs in a cartoon series. Whatever it is that collider.com …

Darren Sumner:
I would watch.

Michael Shanks:
… or whatever the hell these clickbait sites sort of do. So, they’re doing that with you guys. They’re letting everybody on our end know a little bit early. They’re doing it, rolling it out that way, putting the fans first, not the corporation first. It’s so heartening. And so, different. And I remember something so simple. I was talking to some of the cast of Charmed when that sort of reboot or reimi– I didn’t watch the original either. Anyway, that show, the new show, the new version came out, and there was brilliant out-of-context interview where one of the cast said the old people or something like that, and these people didn’t know that a new version was coming out, and they’re the ambassadors for that show out in the world, out at London Film and Comic Con, or, you know, Wales or something like that. And they’re reading this stuff. It’s the internet. It can run around pretty quickly. So, they’re getting faced with that kind of thing. And that’s what I mean: that group all of a sudden goes, “What? Thanks. That’s nice. Isn’t that nice? Didn’t know about it, and now kind of getting kind of dispar–” And it’s details like that that, again, in the rollout seem small compared with all the things going on, and especially all the things that are probably on Martin’s plate, that he gives that respect and then gives that respect to the fans. So, I’m so heartened to see them doing it, and doing it right. And not just them, but also, hats off to Amazon Prime. I don’t know if they’re out there, but there’s some fan out there that was screaming, “Yeah, what we want is a whole new vision, so hire J.J. Abrams to bring, you know, do Stargate.” ‘Cause everybody that I talked to in the fan world was always saying, “We gotta have the original creators before. To at least give them first crack at this.” And lo and behold, we find out that they’re doing just that. And how often does it happen with bigger properties like Lord of the Rings, that things get rolled out with the original visionaries being ignored that don’t necessarily turn out so well. And I’m not saying that everything’s like that.

David Read:
But some things are.

Michael Shanks:
There’s things that happen, but everybody that I’ve talked to in fan world has said, “I hope the creators are involved in some way, that the original people get at least first crack at it.” And lo and behold, I can’t believe that they listened to that. Because usually they don’t. They usually go, “Thank you, thank you. Thank you, nice kitty.”

David Read:
Darren and I have been levitating for about 10 days now, and we’re just coming back down to Earth.

Michael Shanks:
I’m sure. My phone blew up, and I was just sitting around minding my own business, and I couldn’t believe how many people, not even in the Stargate family, were like, “Hey, what’s this about the thing?” You guys have been going hard there. I just caught more sleep than you probably did on my walk over here. You guys are going hard, which is fantastic. Again, and this is why, you know, this is why …

Darren Sumner:
It’s 14 years now.

Michael Shanks:
… they reached out to you guys first. I mean, this is–

Darren Sumner:
Yeah, this is what we’ve been waiting for for 14 years.

David Read:
This is it. We’re not gonna pass it up.

Michael Shanks:
You guys were teenagers.

Darren Sumner:
Pretty much.

David Read:
I was. I was 14 when you said, “Meaning of life stuff,” and I was like, “Oh, hell, this is gonna be going for years.” I knew then when I saw it in first run syndication, I knew it with that script.

Darren Sumner:
And it’s exactly what you described, Michael. Martin Gero told us, basically after he gave us the news and said, “This is how we wanna roll it out, to go to the fans first,” he said, “You know, we’ve now got 50 people to contact.” And it’s not because he wanted to go back to the Stargate cast and crew and necessarily give everybody a job, but the respect of letting everybody know that this is coming and this is important to you, this is important to all of us. Be aware of it.

David Read:
They were a part of what made it.

Darren Sumner:
Exactly like you’re saying. You guys are, for better or worse, brand ambassadors for the rest of your life because of what the show has meant to you and to all of us.

David Read:
It’ll be on your epitaph.

Darren Sumner:
I take it as a super encouraging thing from Martin and from Amazon.

Michael Shanks:
How many other creators would know that that’s an important thing? That’s the other thing that’s so great about Brad and Joe being part of the process as well, they’ve got skin in the game. And who else would think to do that? A new creator who doesn’t know us wouldn’t hunt down all those emails and say, “Hey, blah, blah, blah.” No way. ‘Cause they don’t know us, so they don’t care if they piss us off, or if they just rub us the wrong way. They don’t know. It could be a new toy for them. They’re like, “Oh, great. I want to do it this way,” and whatnot. Like I said, I’ve been very buoyed by the way that this has come about, which also makes me very excited for how it’s gonna come out for–

Diana Dru Botsford:
There’s a lot to be said for Amazon, whoever the executive was over there, how they nurtured the relationship first with Martin, who wrote the pilot, what, 18 months ago is really when negotiations started. How they are trusting Martin and Brad and Joe and the rest of the team that’s being brought in now to know what is best for the show to truly succeed. They want the show to succeed versus trying to fit the square peg into a round hole. That just increases the optimism so much. And watching the three of them talking in that video is hilarious because they’re all like little kids that have just been released into …

David Read:
They love it.

Diana Dru Botsford:
… this huge toy store that clearly is going to be significantly budgeted. Because you watch Brad talk about visual effects and what’s possible. He didn’t say it, but the Cube is of course what they’re gonna use. This is gonna have support from the distributor, it’s gonna have support from the fans, and it’s just gonna do great. It’s exciting.

Michael Shanks:
That’s the thing. It’s exciting. I’m excited to see them excited. And Brad certainly knows the difference between not just the budget that will be included, I’m assuming, ’cause this company has certainly deeper pockets than MGM on its own ever did, and the technology. I’m excited by that. 20 years later, what? We can do what? I wouldn’t even have the foggiest idea about visual effects on this scale. So, yeah, it’s exciting. And like you said, it’s exciting to see them excited because they know– I cracked a joke to Martin about ideas and I said that sounds expensive, and I quoted our old line producer because that’s everything that he would say. And it’s not, like you said, it fits better, and I’m excited to see what this looks like in this kind of world today too. And I’m old enough to be able to say that, my God. But I started out on that show and I was the youngest person, other than the PAs, I was the youngest person on that set. And here’s old man Shanks saying, “When I was a boy, we used to do it this way.”

Diana Dru Botsford:
You really were. You really were one of the parents of the franchise if you look at the original cast and of course the staff writers and the producers and all that. You’re the ones who hatched this enormous egg that just keeps cracking open and revealing new layers. It’s great. We’re grateful as fans. Awesome.

Michael Shanks:
It’s so neat. It’s so neat to see it get to this phase. Who would have think back in those days? But now that it’s here, it’s happening with the right people. And I think the best way, I know from the stuff that I’ve read, I can’t even imagine what’s out there, that this is a great time period for a week when– It’s like telling your kids that COVID’s over and we’re gonna have Christmas again. And everybody’s freaking out.

David Read:
It’s a catharsis.

Michael Shanks:
Because it’s, “Well, we’re gonna have Christmas, we’re gonna have Christmas.” And then all the speculation starts and then a day later they’re like, “Well, I wonder what I’m gonna get. I really want this and I really want that and I really want this. So, I better not get this.” Where all the kvetching and the speculation turns into toxicity and all the other stuff that I know, listen, that’s part of the package. We’ve been doing this since the modern formation of the internet that these things exist, and there will be people with expectations, demands even, entitlement and yada, yada, yada. But–

Diana Dru Botsford:
I think you’re gonna see less of that, Michael, than you think you are. We saw that then with the previous efforts, but I think people are so at a point where they really want to say–

Michael Shanks:
Well, you have to remember, Diana, when we first started this, there wasn’t even Yahoo Groups. As much as you say we’ll see less of it, we’ll see more enthusiasm, we’re just gonna see more stuff, period. We’re gonna see more opinions.

David Read:
We’re gonna have to learn to filter a lot of it ourselves because-

Diana Dru Botsford:
No, absolutely. When I watched the series, I watched it after it aired and because I was hired, commissioned to write the novels, I deliberately stayed off social media because I knew it was going to be toxic. So, I stayed away from it to form my own opinions. But right now, people are so over-hungry for Stargate that they have been starved for so long, like the kid kept from Christmas for five years, that they’re like, “You’re only gonna give me a little tree? That’s okay. It’s still a little tree. I’ll take anything at this point.”

Michael Shanks:
There is gonna be some gratitude, for sure. And, like I said, the best part about this is knowing that, hit or miss with an episode or some ideas or whatever, the plane is above the target and knows where it is rather than going, “What are they thinking? I don’t know what the hell this is about,” that they know what this is supposed to sound like, they know what this is supposed to look like. It’s just a matter of getting there, and how you get there, that we’ll all wait and see, and yeah, I’m just excited by that, I know that these guys are above the target. May not be a laser-guided bomb, it might be an old-school B52, but it’s– Although I will say this, and I cannot stress this enough, that I don’t know– There are growing pains for any new show. I don’t know if people really realize some of the kinks that gotta be worked out of new people doing, ’cause there’s always gonna be new people, there’s gonna be a new cast, there’s gonna be all sorts of different new writers and production people and things like that, that there’s gonna be some hiccups. Because I don’t know if anybody remembers SG-1, but our first season is not fondly remembered as our strongest season, and we had 22 episodes to muck around with. So, whatever they do, if there’s some natural hiccups, some leeway might be granted. I remember the days of Hathor and, what is that? What is everybody’s favorite? Come on.

David Read:
“Emancipation?”

Michael Shanks:
What’s that?

David Read:
“Emancipation?”

Diana Dru Botsford:
Yeah.

Michael Shanks:
Yes, “Emancipation.”

David Read:
I love Katherine Powers. I love her. And Diana does too. We’re gonna put that out there in the universe. But you have to figure things out. It’s as simple as that.

Diana Dru Botsford:
Listen, she went on to write some of the great episodes too, and then over on Star Trek, she created Garrick.

David Read:
That’s true.

Diana Dru Botsford:
But that luxury of 22 episodes, I sadly highly doubt they’re gonna have that luxury. They don’t do that anymore.

Michael Shanks:
Heck yeah. And that’s the other thing that is different, and that’s the only part that I hang a question mark on, is, what’s it gonna look like in an 8-to-10-episode format? I don’t know that. I’m looking at Prime, they don’t do anything more than, what, four to eight? I don’t imagine that they’re gonna– What do they do? What does Rings of Power, not that they’re gonna give a billion dollars to do the first season, but, how many episodes–

Diana Dru Botsford:
I think Maisel was 12, wasn’t it?

Michael Shanks:
Was it?

Diana Dru Botsford:
Yeah, I think so. I think it was a dozen. So, we’ll see. Part of it will be budgeting. I think more is better, but I think, as you say, we talked about this earlier. They have to have the right to stumble. You guys had the right to stumble. And you eventually created this extraordinary experience that here we are years later talking about it.

Michael Shanks:
And some of it, you recognize the pros and cons of having a longer episode order. I don’t know exactly what you’d call filler in our early seasons, like filler episodes, right? We had, I think, $6 million for the first two hours that they put in, and then we kinda had to hit, tap the brakes because we had to make that money back when we were doing some bottle shows in the episodes that happened after that, because we were trying to– We overspent over here, and we’re trying to make it back over here. So, one of the things that that does, of course, is it allows actors to have these character-driven bottle-show stuff, which people sort of go, “Well, it’s not really action-adventure when you’re standing in a broom closet talking to each other, blah, blah, blah.” But it’s like, this is how you get to know the characters. Those are the things that allow you to understand who these people are that we’re gonna be rooting for when the ships start crashing and the blasts start happening and things like that. For every action sequence, there’s Daniel and O’Neill sitting around O’Neill’s house talking about ex-wives and whatnot, and those moments to breathe, to relate to them as people are hugely important. So, some of that filler turns into a boon, especially for a show like Stargate that is all about found family and whatnot. If you’ve got a short order and a sprint from episode one to episode ten, let’s just say, I don’t know, again. You’ve got a lot of story ground to cover, that sometimes, what can get lost in there is the characters interacting to the degree that we wanna give a crap about.

Diana Dru Botsford:
The thing is, conversely, you got Brad Wright, who writes a clip show better than any other writer I’ve ever witnessed in the history of the business.

Michael Shanks:
Absolutely. Ba-da-boom. That’s that, and that’s the thing is that, with someone like Brad there, to do an “Abyss,” to do an episode that’s two guys standing around in a room, debating about suicide and ascension or whatever you wanna call that–

David Read:
And you’re on the edge of your seat.

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, that there’s somebody there–

David Read:
With shoes being thrown through you.

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, but also, again, you can’t necessarily do that without getting to know the people beforehand and caring about them when they do talk about this stuff. That’s the only part that I just don’t know how Stargate reacts to that kind of short-term story. I certainly know in the longer run and how– And that’s tricky. I mean, these guys, the thing about it is, and people need to understand that because of all of the parameters, it’s kinda like the roll-out, right? It’s like they threaded that camel hair through so many different eyes to get to this point, both through the corporation giving them that opportunity, and then doing it all right. And you’re like, “Wow.” Do you guys play the game Geometry Dash? Do you guys know what I’m talking about? It’s a video game. My son plays it, and it is the most maddening thing in the world. It’s like a maze that happens at a million miles an hour, and it’s dumb. I wouldn’t play it, ’cause I would literally blow my brains out because it, well, I wouldn’t literally, figuratively. I would be upset. I would be very frustrated playing this game, because it is like you are– It’s like a maze, but you are a ship traveling through, like old-school Defender or old-school Stargate, traveling through it a million miles an hour, and you have to hit every beat exactly right to get through this maze as you’re traveling a million miles an hour. And I don’t know, I look and say, “Why do you play this? This is crazy.” And that’s how I think that with this, that all these little details, these notes to hit, these beats to honor, to make this happen right, have to be just kinda so. Like, the description that everybody’s expecting, it’s gonna be for science fiction fans, non-science fiction fans, Stargate fans, old-school Stargate fans, and for all these people. And of course that’s what they’re gonna try and succeed. What has to go into that? Figure that Rubik’s Cube out. So, there’s gonna be some, like I said, I’m so buoyed by who’s doing it and how they’re doing it so far, that they’re already into the maze and they’re already working all those, and playing all those notes. And I’m so happy, I’m so excited for them to see what pops out on the other side. But it’s a lot. It’s a lot of things to hit. It’s a lot of eyes and needles to stick that hair through.

Diana Dru Botsford:
Here’s one of the upsides, though, Michael, is that when you did the Showtime episodes and then the Sci-Fi Channel episodes, those were like 42 to 44 minutes long. Typically now, streaming shows that are an hour long literally are an hour long. They’re like 55 minutes, 58 minutes, even an hour and five minutes. And then the other thing is, when you did those shows, was the whole season written ahead of time before you shot, or partly and then on the way?

Michael Shanks:
I think that they had major plot points outlined for the seasons that they would do in the writers’ room, but those scripts were being written on the fly. That’s why you were both successful and unsuccessful with a large part of our improvisation because sometimes we were shooting something that was on the day, you know, that we got dialogue, and then this, “Follow Rick! Wherever we’re going with this! Here we go!”

Diana Dru Botsford:
So, a lot of today what they’re doing with these eight-to-ten-episode seasons is, like a feature film, they’re writing out completely the whole season, and then they shoot out locations which …

Michael Shanks:
I’ve done a couple of …

Diana Dru Botsford:
… are hard on the actor.

Michael Shanks:
… things that are all, well, I wouldn’t even get scripts for some of these shows. I would get just my scenes. And when I did a series called Altered Carbon, another science fiction show on Netflix …

David Read:
Great show.

Diana Dru Botsford:
Oh, yes.

Michael Shanks:
… I never saw a script. I remember I was on set with Anthony Mackie and David Cubitt, and a few of the other actors playing these characters, and I didn’t know the mythology. I didn’t read the books or anything like that, so I didn’t know what the heck was going on in this thing. And we’re just shooting it. And I just read the scenes, I got them a week beforehand, and I read the scene that we’re shooting, blah, blah, blah, and I didn’t know what the hell was going on because I didn’t, I’m not part of the larger part of the story either. So, I’m just seeing what, and this is how secretive they are too about some of this stuff. And I remember just saying out loud, I said, “I can’t wait to watch this to find out what the hell we’re all doing.” And I don’t know if that’s necessarily the best way to proceed when it comes to the actors, where they don’t even know what the hell they’re working on, kinda thing. And apparently Amazon is quite secretive about their processes and whatnot, so, in terms of keeping the audience in the dark and whatnot, that they’re a tech company first, not necessarily an entertainment company, so they like a little bit of secrecy on their end or love a little bit of secrecy on their end.

Diana Dru Botsford:
I don’t think this will be like Marvel, where you have to go into a room and read it on an iPad and then sign away the blood of your first child. I don’t think it’s gonna be that severe.

Michael Shanks:
I played a small part in, what was Neill Blomkamp’s series? Elysium, his movie, Elysium.

David Read:
You were? That was great.

Michael Shanks:
Neill started out, he was a visual effects guy on Stargate. I got offered a part, this small part on the show for giggles, from Neill. And I never met Neill when he was a visual effects guy on Stargate ’cause they all worked in a separate room than the rest of us. And I had to go to the studio, Bridge Studio, strangely enough, before I accepted the part and read the script at the studio. It was sign the thing, read the script, and then leave, and never see it again before I agreed to take the part. That was how it went down. It wasn’t like, “Here, you come in, once you’ve taken the part, you come in and read it this way.” It was before I even took it, so I had to go down to do that, to take the part, to find out what I was doing.

David Read:
Diana.

Michael Shanks:
It wasn’t much, but it was still…

David Read:
Thank you so much, Diana, for joining us. Writer, producer, SG-1 author from the book series The Drift and Four Dragons. Michael, if you ever have a chance to read fan fiction, this is not fan fiction

Diana Dru Botsford:
Whoa. This is not fan fiction. These are like episodes. This is licensed, this is MGM-approved.

David Read:
What I was trying to get to, Diana, if you’ve ever had a chance to read fan fiction, wait until you see …

Michael Shanks:
I would never.

David Read:
… the caliber of these novels because some people think that official tie-in novels are fan fiction, and it’s not the case at all. So, I was trying to scrub that away, Diana.

Michael Shanks:
I know I’ve actually looked at some of the novels. Some of them I have in my house. I have some of them here.

David Read:
She has written two, and they’re fantastic. They really are. We’re gonna make sure that you get them if you don’t have them. Diana–

Michael Shanks:
The fan fiction I get sent is different.

David Read:
I know.

Michael Shanks:
By that I mean …

David Read:
I know. I’ve seen certain pictures of you that you’ve had to block out in large squares. There are some people out there who are fine artists, think very finely of all of you.

Michael Shanks:
And have great Photoshop skills too. Yay for you.

David Read:
That’s right.

Michael Shanks:
Yay for you.

David Read:
Gosh, guys, thank you.

Diana Dru Botsford:
Michael, it was great to meet you. Take care.

Michael Shanks:
You too, Diana. Take care.

David Read:
Thank you.

Michael Shanks:
We’ll hopefully see you again. All right.

David Read:
Michael, realistically, how much time do you have?

Michael Shanks:
Whatever you need. I am yours.

David Read:
You’re good for an hour?

Michael Shanks:
I’m good for an hour. Let’s go.

Darren Sumner:
I have to step out in about five minutes.

Michael Shanks:
Let’s go.

David Read:
OK, Darren, wrap up your thoughts with Michael here. My God, YOLO.

Darren Sumner:
Before you bring the girls in. I’ve got to step out–

Michael Shanks:
Before you bring the girls in. Wait a minute. What the hell?

Darren Sumner:
Hey, this is a show.

David Read:
The dancing girls.

Darren Sumner:
You’re not on Dial the Gate, you’re on Wormhole X-Tremists.

David Read:
This is what we do, baby.

Darren Sumner:
Good show. No, but Michael, I’m resonating with everything that you’re saying about the industry and how things have worked for you and how things are changing with these big-budget streaming shows. But what it makes me want to say before I dip out of here is, as much as the fans have worked to keep Stargate alive and the fan community has continued to rally for 15 years, it’s also, I really think, a testament to what you guys made back in the day because a lot of shows just go away.

David Read:
That’s right.

Darren Sumner:
A lot of shows just die.

David Read:
That’s right.

Darren Sumner:
And it’s, “Oh yeah, that one was from the ’80s, I remember watching that show.” But instead it’s on DVD, it’s on Blu-ray, and now it’s on streaming, and there is a new generation of viewers who are coming in and discovering the quality of the stuff that you guys made.

Michael Shanks:
We have, we in our house have a direct comparative because Lexa’s show, Andromeda, was around in the later phase of the first five years of ours.

David Read:
Yes.

Michael Shanks:
That’s how I met her, doing her show. And they’re not, they’re in that category of they don’t get invited out to conventions or anything like that. They’re, I think, for the first time as a cast, got invited to a convention this year. The idea that the legacy, the fan legacy of this project, of the Stargate name brand, is still resonating. And it’s still young people because people are introducing their kids to it. All this hubbub, my own son said to me, “So–” and he’s never watched anything I’m in. And he won’t watch it purposely because I’m in it ’cause I ruin it for him, ’cause he just goes, “Oh, that’s Dad.” Whatever. Thanks for my suspension of disbelief. And he finally said, “So, was this show a big deal or something?” And I sort of said, “It’s interesting, you should maybe watch the movie.” And so, he finally watched the movie two days ago for the first time because of all the hubbub. So, if nothing else, the continued excitement, ’cause he didn’t know about any of this stuff from my angle. He was reading it himself on the internet. And he went and said, “So, what is this whole Stargate thing?”

David Read:
He has to find it himself.

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, and so he–

Darren Sumner:
He might watch it now that Dad’s not in it.

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, well, that’s the thing. He watched the movie ’cause I’m not in it. I don’t have to watch it anymore.

David Read:
But that may be his in, Darren. He may be able to …

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, it’s true. It is because it doesn’t–

David Read:
… buttress a suspension of disbelief around this.

Michael Shanks:
It’s contagious. He loves all the action stuff, Marvel, and he’s into some of these anime and things like that. He’s older now. He’s 19. He’s not a kid anymore, but yeah, it’s given him that excitement, which he wouldn’t, like I said, he wouldn’t touch anything I did with a 10-foot pole. And he was like, “Check this out then.” So, kinda excited.

Darren Sumner:
Thank you, Michael, for being here. I’m gonna go. I just watched my wife pull away, actually, so I might have been left behind. I’m gonna go see what’s going on. Let me ask you this question and then I’ll watch it offline.

Michael Shanks:
OK. Please.

Darren Sumner:
You’ve got a new cast coming in. People are gonna hopefully fall in love with a brand new iteration of Stargate. And I imagine this time a few years down the road where that new cast is showing up at conventions alongside you, what advice are you giving them, and how are you bringing them into the family as a former cast member?

David Read:
That’s a great question, Darren.

Michael Shanks:
It’s so different. It really is, and I don’t know the answer to it. I think that because it’s new territory for us as well. I remember going to a convention early days with Alaina Huffman when they were getting a lot of flack. And somebody in the front row at Dragon Con asked her some sort of pointed question, something like, “Why is your show so dumb?”

Darren Sumner:
How dare you make a show I don’t like?

David Read:
Yeah, they were really shitty.

Michael Shanks:
So, there’s gonna be both. There’s gonna be the, what these people are gonna be doing is they’re jumping on a moving train. It’s not like any other thing that they could be on and depending on their experience. They might be equipped. They might have come from something else or some other franchise that let them know that there’s a lot of crap talking out there and there’s a lot of negativity. If anybody doesn’t know there’s a lot of negativity on social media, probably. But my advice is to remain even keeled about the whole thing. You’re gonna have people that are gonna tell you you’re the best thing since sliced bread, and you’re gonna have people that tell you [that] you should get out of this business and never work again. For actors, strangely enough, it’s kind of a common thing. We get told we should get out of this business all the time, so for a lot of actors it’s not a big deal, but it still hurts sometimes. So, you have to remain even keeled that the best of the best is not the best and the worst of the worst is not the worst and just keep that even keel. And that would be my advice. Like I said, there’s not too much advice you can get, and it will be situationally specific. I think part of the backlash of something like Universe was because people were jarred by the difference of filmmaking and tone. But they’d just come from Atlantis. They’d just come from SG-1, and so their backlash was fresh. It’s like, “This isn’t my show,” without giving it a chance. And now I think that not only do we have people that are genuinely excited, and they’re gonna tune in, even if it’s to do this, and then there’s gonna be new people. There are people that have never heard of this darn franchise that are gonna get a new show, and that’s the desire to appeal to everyone. That’s the tent we’re trying to build here.

David Read:
Expand.

Michael Shanks:
And because it’s been a minute. It’s been 14 years since SGU went dark.

Darren Sumner:
Yup.

Michael Shanks:
It’s been 14 years. It’s almost been 20 since we shot that last episode of SG-1, before we did the movies the following year. Almost been 20 years. Next year it’ll be 20 years. So, yeah. Just to keep even keeled about the reactions to everything and know that the best part is you’re joining this big family that is loving and supportive but also kinda, you know. There’s some Thanksgivings where we sit around going, “Well, I disagree with that,” and “Shipper this,” and “Woke that,” and blah, blah, blah. All these different opinions, but we’re still a family. That even the drive-by comment on collider.com is not part of the family. It’s the people, why they came to GateWorld and to Dial the Gate to talk about this. That’s the family. That’s the old school family. And we’re welcoming some new babies into the world. And we hope that we prepare them appropriately with the right wisdom. But yeah, it’s exciting.

David Read:
Darren.

Darren Sumner:
Beautiful. Thank you.

Michael Shanks:
Thank you.

Darren Sumner:
Thank you, guys.

Michael Shanks:
Thank you, Darren.

Darren Sumner:
Great to see you.

Michael Shanks:
You too. Go get your wife.

David Read:
Wait for me. Michael, this is Yvie. She is one of my two co-hosts on Wormhole X-Tremists.

Michael Shanks:
Hi, Yvie.

Yvie Cahill:
Hi, Michael. So nice to–

Michael Shanks:
You look familiar. Have we met before?

Yvie Cahill:
No, we haven’t met before.

Michael Shanks:
Have we not?

David Read:
She’s got one of those faces.

Yvie Cahill:
Do I?

Michael Shanks:
No, I don’t– What does that even mean?

David Read:
She’s going to be …

Yvie Cahill:
How could I know you?

David Read:
… providing the fan questions from the chat. We’ve got 1,000 people watching, Michael.

Michael Shanks:
Oh, fantastic.

David Read:
I appreciate you sticking.

Yvie Cahill:
We do. This is a record for this channel, so thank you so much.

David Read:
By 10. So, Yvie, do you have a question for Michael before we start and I bring in our surprise guest?

Yvie Cahill:
I do have a question for Michael. Mine is, if you imagine Daniel Jackson in 2025, Where do you see him? Would he be consulting at the SGC? Do you think he might have moved on to something else, maybe in the private sector? Gone back to academia? Maybe he’s a curator of an Egyptian museum?

Michael Shanks:
I’ve had a lot of time to think about that question, and I– There was something in the original pilot that was when they’re sitting around in the temple where the Stargate is in our pilot. And they drink Skaara’s moonshine. And O’Neill says, “Daniel, what have you been teaching these kids?” And I can’t help but think, I have this vision in my head that if O’Neill retired and Carter went on to be a general somewhere else or something like that, would Daniel still be going with another SG team through the gate? And I went, “I don’t know if he would or not.” He might have actually gone away and formed his own society and become this warlord on some planet somewhere. I don’t know.

David Read:
Just so long as he’s not teaching English as a second language.

Michael Shanks:
As much as I could see him being a consultant at the SGC or something like that, or traveling in a starship or something like that, with teams that are still adventuring, I can also see him forming his own group and going out separately, still exploring. He’s not gonna sit and build camp and take over a world. He’s not that kind of warlord. He’s gonna go out and still– He’s still exploring. Whatever he’s doing, he’s still out there. Answering and asking questions. And that’s how I always loved to think of him, that he wouldn’t stop. He’s the ultimate adventurer.

Yvie Cahill:
The go-getter.

Michael Shanks:
Whatever it is. But the how? I don’t know. Like I said, that’s my fan fiction right there. Please don’t send it to me. I’m kidding. Along with photos, please don’t send it to me.

David Read:
At this age, at this point in his life, do you think he would still want to be a dad?

Michael Shanks:
He never really had great experiences as a child, so I’m not entirely sure.

David Read:
If he ever wanted to begin with? OK.

Michael Shanks:
I don’t know.

David Read:
Or had any desire to be.

Michael Shanks:
It’s possible. I can visualize that could happen. From the original movie, I could see him being on that planet and being a dad. Now after so much water under the bridge, it would take a very specific circumstance for him to be a dad. I know that because of Michael, I can visualize how he would be a dad. But whether or not– He had very different life experiences than Michael did as well, so I don’t– I’m not entirely sure he would embrace it as much as Michael would. I don’t know. Good question though.

David Read:
It’s on purpose because I have a blast from your past waiting for you here. Let me bring him in. Let’s hope he doesn’t turn into …

Michael Shanks:
Is this Lane Gates?

David Read:
… a tornado.

Lane Gates:
Hello?

Michael Shanks:
Is this Lane Gates?

David Read:
Yeah.

Michael Shanks:
Oh my God.

Lane Gates:
Speaking of fatherhood?

Michael Shanks:
Oh my God. How are you, buddy?

Lane Gates:
I’m good, man. Good to see you.

David Read:
This is the closest thing that Daniel had to a son.

Michael Shanks:
You know what’s so funny about that? You and I talked about photos, David?

David Read:
Yeah.

Michael Shanks:
About whether or not I could have those photos? So, I went digging. This is not a setup. This is completely spontaneous.

David Read:
Oh no. What have you got?

Michael Shanks:
I went digging and found an archive. Hang on a second. Boop, boop, boop. Strangely enough–

David Read:
Bring that up to the camera here.

Lane Gates:
No way.

Michael Shanks:
That’s us.

Lane Gates:
That’s so funny. I got that same photo.

Michael Shanks:
That’s us from “Absolute Power” in the Richmond Sand Dunes, uh, during the third se– I had no idea that they were bringing you– That’s so funny.

Lane Gates:
That’s crazy. That’s a great day.

Michael Shanks:
Guess what?

Lane Gates:
That’s great.

Michael Shanks:
I just took it off my fridge, Lane. It’s by me all the time. You’ve grown into such a handsome young man.

Lane Gates:
Ah, thank you.

David Read:
Lane, do you have any–

Lane Gates:
It was a long time ago. I was definitely a kid back then.

Michael Shanks:
Yes. What are you up to now? Forgive us. We’re just gonna talk, OK?

David Read:
No, that’s why he’s here. Michael, if you’ve got time, let’s hang.

Michael Shanks:
Let’s do it. What’s going on? What are you up to?

Lane Gates:
I am a heavy equipment operator in the oil fields of Northern Canada.

Michael Shanks:
You’re kidding me. Whereabouts?

Lane Gates:
I just came from just a little south of Grande Prairie, out working up there.

Michael Shanks:
Dude, my first job was working for my uncle’s rathole drilling company in Grande Prairie. So, to give you an idea of my familiarity with that line of work. My uncle, Uncle Pat, passed away last year. So, I went up for the funeral. Posted a few photos on Instagram on my way, ’cause I hadn’t been that way for a long time. But they’re still up there in Grande Prairie with the rathole drilling company. They’ve done well. It’s good work.

Lane Gates:
It’s a pretty busy area out there, for sure. Gets cold.

Michael Shanks:
I was gonna say, and bugs. I remember bugs and cold. I was there in the summertime, but where we would go when we would take the drill and head up further north was like, “Where are we going?” Talk about feeling like you’re at the edge of the world, I can’t imagine. How long have you been there?

Lane Gates:
I’ve been working out there for about 15 years now, kinda all over.

Michael Shanks:
Oh my goodness. OK. And where do you live specifically?

Lane Gates:
I live in Kelowna.

David Read:
Give us an address there exactly.

Lane Gates:
Yeah, for sure.

Michael Shanks:
Oh, you live in Kelowna?

Lane Gates:
Yeah.

Michael Shanks:
So, you just head up there for work? Oh, OK.

Lane Gates:
That’s right. We do a 20-day hitch, and then we get about 10 days off. And then we get spring breakup off, which is about two months. So, working about 10 months out of the year, but–

Michael Shanks:
Oh, my God, I remember those days. I used to work — what was it — ten on, five off, I think was the schedule I had.

Lane Gates:
Yeah, I enjoy it. I’m running heavy equipment, so it’s like playing in a big sandbox all day long.

Michael Shanks:
No, for sure.

David Read:
Michael, ask him how many kids he has.

Michael Shanks:
How many kids you got, Lane?

Lane Gates:
I got three.

Michael Shanks:
Oh, my Lord. What are their ages?

Lane Gates:
14, 9, and 1. So, a little bit of a gap in between them all, but–

Michael Shanks:
Oh, my goodness.

Lane Gates:
Yeah, they’re older, my son’s older than I was when I was in Stargate, you know?

Michael Shanks:
I’m so fucking old. Holy shit. I can’t stop trying to picture you with a 14-year-old. That’s crazy.

Lane Gates:
Good times.

Michael Shanks:
Thank you, David, for this episode of This Is Your Life.

David Read:
Lane and I have become friends. I have had a chance to get to know him, trying to get him on over the past couple of years here. And when we scheduled you, it seemed perfect. Depending on his schedule, he, like he said, may not have been available. And so, I just reached out to him, and it fell on that time, and I really wanted you to see him.

Lane Gates:
I literally got off work yesterday and had the day free today, so it worked out perfectly.

Michael Shanks:
So, good to see you, buddy. You’ve grown.

David Read:
He’s gonna hang with us if you don’t mind.

Lane Gates:
I have grown, for sure.

Michael Shanks:
I’m glad.

Lane Gates:
Not by much unfortunately.

David Read:
You good to hang out, buddy?

Lane Gates:
Absolutely.

David Read:
OK. Yvie…

Yvie Cahill:
Yes.

David Read:
Thank you for being so awesome in Perth, hanging out with us at Zero Dark Thirty.

Yvie Cahill:
My pleasure.

David Read:
And thank you to our audience of 955 who are hanging out in the Wormhole X-Tremists.

Michael Shanks:
Good. We bumped some of them off.

Yvie Cahill:
Great. No.

David Read:
So, this is usually our re-watch channel.

Michael Shanks:
Hopefully it wasn’t something I said.

David Read:
No. If you guys enjoy re-watching live, Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis, we’re doing so tomorrow, Seasons Eight and Seasons One respectively. So, we hope that some of you stick around because we …

Yvie Cahill:
We have a good time.

David Read:
… we hang out. We will be posting that livestream tomorrow. Michael, thank you for this so much. We’ve got so many fan questions for you. Let’s hear what they have to say.

Michael Shanks:
All right. Hit me.

David Read:
All right. You keep me in the loop on when you wanna give a ten-minute warning, OK?

Michael Shanks:
For sure. When do you wanna, not that it matters, but do you wanna see those pictures ever, or do you wanna save that for another day?

David Read:
Let’s hang onto that because I want them scanned. Or at least you’ve taken the photos of the phones. OK?

Michael Shanks:
Sure. I can send them to you.

David Read:
Sure. Perfect, and let’s go ahead and– You and I were not anticipating this, so let’s hang onto the photos for the next time.

Michael Shanks:
No, exactly, that’s what I’m saying. There’s a lot here we don’t need to talk about.

David Read:
I’m gonna bring you back. Let’s do that. Thank you so much for digging through those. We will use them.

Michael Shanks:
No problem. I get it.

David Read:
Yvie.

Michael Shanks:
This is …

Yvie Cahill:
Yes.

Michael Shanks:
… hot off the press, so–

David Read:
I know. Yvie.

Yvie Cahill:
All right, you ready, Michael? Some questions–

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, I’m ready.

Yvie Cahill:
Some questions from–

David Read:
Not trivia.

Yvie Cahill:
OK, so we got, first question is from Mama Nox of Follow the Yellow Gate Road. And she says, “Because you are able to say your lines at 6,000 million words per minute, have you ever got so tongue-tied that it has created a total word train crash on set? And if so, are there bloopers available?”

Michael Shanks:
Oh boy, I wouldn’t want to see those bloopers. I’m sure there are. I think, to this day, because especially in the first season of the show, during “Emancipation,” of all things, we were filming by this creek for a scene, and so we had to ADR the whole thing. And it was one of my first ADR sessions that I saw myself on camera speaking the words. And I saw for the first time how quickly I speak. I went, “Oh, my God. Who is this asshole, ’cause I have to match it now.” And I’m now relaxed and I’m in a studio, and I’m like, “Wait a minute.” This is really fast. And I think it was as simple as, the line was, “Mongol women might’ve been the legendary Amazons.” But I said it, “Mongol women might’ve been the legendary Amazons.” And all that came out whenever I would do it was, “Mongo, mongo, mongo, mongo, mongo, mongo, mongo, mongo. Mongol woman, mongo, mongo, mongo.” And it took me 16, I think my record was 16 to 18 tries to try and match my motor mouth.

David Read:
‘Cause you have to repeat it.

Michael Shanks:
And you have to match, it was camera right on your face, the edit is right on your face. And you have to make it sync it up. And so, I went, “Jesus Christ,” and I realized what an a-hole I must be to try and match in looping or whatever, and I curse myself every time I go in for looping where I do big exposition passages and have to match them, because I go, “Ugh, this guy.” Like it’s somebody else. “This guy, shut up.” So, yes. I don’t know if there’s bloopers from the first season. I’m sure they exist somewhere. But that was my record was 18 tries of looping …

Yvie Cahill:
18 takes.

Michael Shanks:
… for “Mongol women might’ve been the–” And it seems like now I can say it. Why do I even remember that line, David? Because it was trauma.

David Read:
That’s the thing.

Yvie Cahill:
It’s embedded in your memory.

David Read:
Elizabeth Dennehy talks about when they shot Best of Both Worlds on TNG. She came in the first day, thinking that she would have time to have her lines prepared, and she didn’t. And she talked about, “Projections suggest that the Borg cube like this one can function effectively even if 78% of it were inoperable.” And she said that the words went in through sheer terror. And they have stayed with her all these years. And that’s just what happens. Lane, do you have the document?

Michael Shanks:
There you go, Lane. I agree.

Lane Gates:
I do. I’m looking at it right now.

David Read:
Yvie, Lane is gonna help us. Do you see the …

Yvie Cahill:
Aw, Lane. OK.

David Read:
… text in blue?

Yvie Cahill:
I do.

David Read:
But does Lane see the text in blue, boy?

Lane Gates:
The text in blue.

David Read:
Under Questions for Michael, if you scroll down.

Yvie Cahill:
What page is that? Page three.

Lane Gates:
Page three. It says questions for Lane and then questions for Michael.

David Read:
There we go. Perfect. TimSGC says– You see it, buddy?

Lane Gates:
TimSGC says?

David Read:
Yes. TimSGC–

Yvie Cahill:
It just says TimSGC.

David Read:
Underneath the Mama Nox where the word says “red,” where it’s red.

Lane Gates:
Yeah.

David Read:
The ones that are blue are gonna be yours.

Lane Gates:
They don’t look blue on mine. They’re just black.

David Read:
That’s weird.

Lane Gates:
“If the producers stick with canon as it has been-”

David Read:
That’s Lockwatcher. Go up one to TimSGC.

Lane Gates:
I don’t see a TimSGC.

David Read:
That’s really strange. OK. Michael, TimSGC says, “Daniel has some hefty situations with mythology, the afterlife, ascension. How did you approach balancing his scientific rationality with his spirituality? Is Daniel’s spiritual journey complete?”

Michael Shanks:
Oh my God.

David Read:
He’s been through, like he says to Charles Shaughnessy, “I’ve been around,” which is one of the best lines from the entire show. He’s been through the proverbial washing machine. Obviously, he’s gonna be more jaded about the universe now. That’s certainly how you were able to express it, but what do you think he feels about the path that is possible for a mortal, and do you think that there is any wonder left in him?

Michael Shanks:
I think there’s lots of wonder left in him. There’s no question about that. That never left. I think that there’s some cynicism when it comes to people, but that’s always what’s driven, I think– The core of the character has been based on some sort of morality that borders on preachy sometimes, but for the most part is about the difference between good and evil. And I think that his morality sorts out the pieces. But I think the sense of wonder never left. So, I would file them in two different categories: his spirituality, his sense of morality is what drives him to continue to search, in that idealistic way. And that leads to exploration, which leads to wonder. So, I think there’s lots of wonder left in that guy.

David Read:
For sure. Yvie, can you ask casuallysandra’s question here, if I keep from deleting it?

Yvie Cahill:
Yes, I was gonna say, it just disappeared. casuallysandra asks, “Have you spoken with any of the other cast, not Lexa, obviously, about the new show?”

Michael Shanks:
It’s so new, I don’t think so. No, I have not spoken with any of the other actors from any of the shows about this. It’s so fresh that I think everybody’s processing it in their own way. Whether it be, “Whatever, not me.” Or, “Ooh, ooh. I can’t wait!” in a fan kind of way. But no, I have not spoken to anybody else to the final notes what their take is on it.

Yvie Cahill:
It’s been a bit of a whirlwind.

David Read:
It’s extremely fresh. And so, I really appreciate you even answering those questions at this point, because everything is up in the air. There’s always a potential for work, and it’s, what do you say at this point? There’s always politics. So, the fact that you’re coming on this week, thank you. So, Lane.

Michael Shanks:
Actually, I shouldn’t. Let me correct that. I have talked to one of the other cast members. She lives in the same house as me. She’s very excited too.

David Read:
“Lexa, what’d you think about it?” “It’s great. It’s good. It’s good.” She likes it.

Michael Shanks:
No, she was very excited to hear, because it, again, it’s been a huge part of our lives. Our family excluded, meaning our children excluded, because they keep hearing this word when they’ve– They came to a couple conventions with us this year. They know about this thing from– This thing from Grandpa Dad’s past that’s nah, nah, nah, nah that he keeps nah, nah, nah-ing about. They’re aware of it, but they don’t know what the heck it is. They haven’t watched it. Like I said, my children aren’t interested in watching Dad on screen. They’ve seen enough of his ass all fucking day though. But, I think it’s the excitement. It’s been a part of our lives for a long time, and it’s exciting for– When we go talk to fans and stuff, and see how passionate and, in the last few years, thirsty, my God, for a new show of some kind, and asking all those questions, because even at enthusiastic conventions, the hardcore fans, they run out of questions, man. They heard all …

David Read:
‘Cause we talk so fast.

Michael Shanks:
… of our BS and stories and anecdotes, and chasing the bear, Chris Judge chasing me up the hill and all that. They all heard all that stuff already. They want something new, you know? They want, “Grandpa, tell us a new story. Stop boring us with that old shit.” And so, we want new stories to tell them, even if it’s just to relate to them about what we think about it. It’ll be interesting to see with fandom– Like I said, the announcement of Christmas has come. It’ll be interesting to see how composed everybody is over the pure thirst for information about it, as this thing crawls forward at TV production pace, which is never quick, in terms of if you wanna watch the damn thing. They haven’t even got a production office set up. They haven’t got a location. They haven’t got anything. So, it’ll be interesting to see how many people soil themselves with anticipation over the next, you know, potentially year, year and a half before it actually comes out.

David Read:
I probably shouldn’t say this, Michael, but Meta reached out to me a day after the announcement was done, and they were wanting to enable some increased security for my account and give me a customer service number and everything else. And I looked into it, and it was a scam, and I’d never seen anything like this before. So, I am already getting targeted. I’d never seen anything like that before, and it was like, “OK, I consider myself on notice that I have to be a little bit more protective of my digital footprint.”

Michael Shanks:
There’s a lot more ways–

David Read:
It’s those things. That’s it. Lane, do you have another one for us?

Lane Gates:
So, CGermanB: “With our beloved OG producers on board, and them saying it will be Stargate just done differently, what do you hope to see them honoring from our beloved series?” That’s a great question.

Michael Shanks:
Oh, boy. What would I like to see?

Lane Gates:
What do you hope to see.

David Read:
Do you want them to resurrect the Asgard at some point? If we do this for a few years going forward, we have the Vanir in another galaxy with their DNA, and everyone’s inside of this little box in the Odyssey.

Michael Shanks:
The Michael in me goes, “Yeah, sure,” but the Thor in me says, “Yes, you better resurrect me, damn it. I’m an important part of this franchise, and I don’t wanna lie in a box for the next–” And I saw Thor. I saw him. He was in London. Somebody owns that puppet.

David Read:
Oh, they brought him out.

Michael Shanks:
They brought him out for us to take some photos with, and I’m like, “I know this guy.” So, yeah, of course. Listen, there’s so many things.

David Read:
Did you get a little emotional when you saw it? Was that like, or was it just like, “Ah, it’s the puppet?” How do you feel looking at that-

Michael Shanks:
Rick was with me, so he– I swear to God, Rick was with me, so he loves that puppet more than anything, because that’s his favorite acting partner on the show. Never mind me, never mind Amanda, never mind some of the great guest stars we had. That puppet was his favorite acting partner on the show.

David Read:
So, it’s, “Thor, buddy, get away right there.”

Michael Shanks:
He, exactly, “This, he’s mine, I’m taking pictures with him.” So, he loves that guy. And I mean that sincerely because that guy does exactly what he’s told.

Lane Gates:
One of the best actors for sure.

David Read:
But aside from that, I apologize, I derailed the question, if there was an element that they could take from the past to feather into the present …

Michael Shanks:
I think that there’s-

David Read:
… what do you think is the–

Michael Shanks:
There’s so much. I think that there’s nothing that is so urgent or crucial from past shows. I know that people are wanting to know what happened to the Atlantis.

David Read:
And Destiny.

Michael Shanks:
And what happened to Destiny and all that stuff. So, those are real dangling threads. We’re like, “Well, whatever happened to the team?” It’s not like they were in jeopardy like the way that the Destiny crew was when that show concluded. So, there’s no unresolved, deep-seated, “I need to see more of this desperately,” storyline for SG-1 that– They’re gonna haul out a lot. I’m sure that they’re gonna reference a ton of things, even if nothing else for expository purposes or for fan service. And I know that if it’s fan service it’ll be done as expository, but hopefully it’ll be in context that is required, and I know that they’ll do that. But there’s no real one thing that I wanna see more of. Like I said, Thor wants to come out of the box and come back and play. I’d love to see what we’d do with something like Thor if the visual effects range is so good now, that we could make that happen, ’cause we used the puppet for a reason, right? Like, the technology wasn’t that great, and–

David Read:
Not until you could do it with Teryl, and Craig Van Den Biggelaar was a visual effects genius, he would, with Heimdall.

Michael Shanks:
Could you do that whole thing CGI now? I don’t know. In terms of really making it effective. I don’t know, but like I said, Thor wants to come out and play, but it’s not tops on my priority list. I mean, I’m just excited to see what new stuff they’re gonna come up with. I have no burning desire for something from the past, “I need it now.”

David Read:
Yvie? Speaking of…

Yvie Cahill:
The red question?

David Read:
Yes.

Yvie Cahill:
OK. This is from PCV-Driving-Instructor.

David Read:
Wait a second here. Yes.

Yvie Cahill:
They said, “Hi, Michael, big fan. You were my first celeb crush as a teen.” Their question is, “What or which actor from the Star Trek universe would you like to see in a new Stargate show?”

David Read:
‘Cause you do cross paths with a lot of them.

Michael Shanks:
Which actor from the Star Trek universe would I like to see on–

David Read:
That hasn’t yet.

Yvie Cahill:
Stargate show.

Michael Shanks:
Oh, geez.

David Read:
Who do you think would be a good fit?

Michael Shanks:
Oh, geez.

David Read:
I think that Doug Jones would be brilliant.

Michael Shanks:
Was not expecting that one–

David Read:
He’s just so elegant.

Michael Shanks:
The thing is, I’d love to see Patrick Stewart. That’s selfish. I’d love to see Patrick Stewart.

Yvie Cahill:
That would be amazing.

Michael Shanks:
Just ’cause I’m a big fan. And I’ve met him at a couple of things, and then I saw a couple of plays that he did when I was in London, and I’d love to work with him. So, that’s my selfish perspective. You could also get William Shatner to come play, I don’t know, President of the United States for an episode, and that’d be fun.

David Read:
The Hayes administration is over, yep. Someone’s gonna have to do that at some point.

Michael Shanks:
They gotta bring in Shatner. But listen, there’s so many great actors. I haven’t watched any of the new shows, so I don’t know. I’ve met Anson from …

David Read:
Strange New Worlds.

Michael Shanks:
… Strange New Worlds. But I don’t know the new shows. I don’t know them at all.

Lane Gates:
I got one question from jimmyd3279, “How did you end up becoming the voice of Thor?”

David Read:
That was the one that I thought was coming next, so I apologize about that.

Michael Shanks:
No worries. What’s great about that is you know the answer to these things.

David Read:
I do, but I wanted– With all the audience here, it’s, come on, everyone loves this little guy. Let’s spend another beat with him.

Michael Shanks:
Just like what we were talking about, about the opportunity to play Makchello in “Holiday.” Michael Greenburg used to throw these little challenges, and he knew I was a couple of things. He liked my work, but also, he was looking for cheap labor. When Thor first appeared in “Thor’ Hammer,” was it “Thor’s Hammer” when we see the puppet for the first time.

David Read:
The puppet is “Thor’s Chariot” when we first see him revealed.

Michael Shanks:
And he got a couple of lines. And Greenberg came up to me and said, “We need a good actor for this. You wanna do a couple line for this?” And I said, “Sure, why not? Sounds great.” I hadn’t done any animation work or anything like that, and I was like, “Yeah, I’ll do it.” I’d do it for nothing, I did it for free.” They both wanted somebody that was good, but also somebody that was cheap. So, when I did stuff like Ma’chello, I didn’t bill them separately, because I was the enthusiastic actor guy that wanted to do this stuff. That’s how I almost ended up doing Ernest in “Torment of Tantalus,” young Ernest, was because, He’s good, but he’s cheap.” And what was hilarious is that that’s in Season Two, I believe, and then by “Fair Game,” which was in Season Three–

David Read:
Yeah, Ma’chello was Season Two, and “Fair Game” was voiceover in Season Three.

Michael Shanks:
But in “Fair Game” specifically, with the meeting of the System Lords that Thor was overseeing, he had more lines than Daniel Jackson did. I’d done a couple of episodes where Thor was there, and I would do it for free, and then when I saw the amount of dialogue that Thor had in “Fair Game,” I said, “Hang on a second. This guy talks more than I do. This is gonna take hours to voice this over.” The first time it was 10 minutes. This is gonna take hours. You gotta throw me union minimum for this. So, that’s how it continued, is that we’d established the voice and whatnot and …

David Read:
His demeanor changed.

Michael Shanks:
… and I kept doing it.

David Read:
He was much more– … doing a sing-song in “Thor’s Chariot.”

Michael Shanks:
He had a lot of lines.

David Read:
And then you brought in, “The human representative is recognized.” He’s really taking this seriously. There’s foxes in the henhouse. He’s there to protect Earth. And the whole demeanor changed from there on in.

Michael Shanks:
And then later on, it started turning into– I originally based it, I had done a play at Stratford with Dougie Rain. And Dougie Rain, for science-fiction fans who know the voice but don’t know the name, he was the voice of HAL in 2001. And I worked with Douglas Rain at Stratford in a production of Merchant of Venice, and it was always hilarious because he’s this very respected, serious thespian. And people would come at him in the stage door with copies of 2001: A Space Odyssey for him to sign, and he’d be like, “Niih.”

David Read:
It’s like Alec Guinness with Star Wars.

Michael Shanks:
Iconic character. I started off, when I did Thor, it started off sounding like that. like, “I can’t do that, Dave.” I wanted him to be monotonic, wise, possibly threatening, but I wanted him to be sort of sitting in that vein. And I also wanted to do my own fan service for Douglas. And over time, that sort of thoughtful tone started to turn into a little bit of this. And I don’t know if you recognize it. It started to turn a little bit more–

David Read:
“Hey, Stewie, how are ya? Oh, hello, fat man.”

Michael Shanks:
“Come here, dog. Hello, O’Neill.” It started to have a little bit more fun with it that way as time goes on. You’ll hear it slightly because they always treated my voice a little bit as well, but I started to have a little bit more fun with it that way.

David Read:
You gotta. Come on. Did I set us up next? Yes. Yvie?

Yvie Cahill:
Yes. So, the next question in red is Elios0000–

David Read:
Get all the zeroes in, Yvie, and you don’t get yelled at.

Michael Shanks:
You could have just done two. You had to do four, OK.

Yvie Cahill:
“Can we ask Michael his favorite parts of working with Claudia Black?”

Michael Shanks:
No, we can’t ask that. It depends if we can ask that. Yes, you can ask that. Go ahead. Claudia is–

Yvie Cahill:
Fellow Australian, as well.

Michael Shanks:
Yes. Although she sounds– She’s got that sort of British thing down to a …

Yvie Cahill:
She’s very proper.

Michael Shanks:
… to a T. But everybody that’s a Stargate fan knows my affection for Claudia Black. She came in and revitalized my enthusiasm for the show at the time with her play, her desire to play. ‘Cause not a lot of actors, especially when they come into a show like that, are that, I guess, enthusiastic about play. They’re more interested in getting the job done and doing it right and getting out without any scars and bruises and whatnot. And she comes in with this incredible sense of play. And that’s what defined that dynamic, was brought about by her passion, enthusiasm, and our chemistry, and my desire to play with her. I can’t say enough about her talent and her dynamic and energy. It’s infectious.

Yvie Cahill:
I think it was almost needed after Rick moved on.

Michael Shanks:
I didn’t realize it at the time. But yeah, working with Rick, we really– When him and I really got to go off a little bit, we always had fun and we always enjoyed the dynamic. And we still, anybody who’s seen us on stage together knows that we enjoy the shit out of each other’s company. And when he was gone, I didn’t have that kind of partner on the show anymore in a regular capacity. So, I had to–

David Read:
You had to fill in a lot of that space until she came along.

Michael Shanks:
And she came along. And her character, the way it was outlined, had a lot of humor naturally built in. But then she brought it to that next level ’cause I’m trying to remember the name of the actress that they originally cast. And not that she would have done a poor job, it just would have been a very different take on the character then.

David Read:
I don’t recall this.

Michael Shanks:
I don’t remember her name.

Yvie Cahill:
I don’t think I’ve seen that either.

David Read:
If it comes to you, stop thinking about it and it may come back. That’s interesting. Lane.

Michael Shanks:
She dated George Clooney.

Yvie Cahill:
That’s a short list.

Michael Shanks:
Narrow that list down.

David Read:
OK. Lane, I will actually work on that. Lane, go ahead.

Michael Shanks:
Hot girl in the elevator from Liar Liar.

Lane Gates:
AUDHDPunkHeather 38, “I was diagnosed very late with autism and see some of myself in Daniel. Do you know how much Daniel has made a difference for people with autism and ADHD?”

Michael Shanks:
I am aware that there’s a community, and I am aware that Daniel is definitely part of the family. 100% for sure. When I was first sort of creating the speech pattern of Spader’s character, I’m like, “How does this make sense?” Well, it makes sense because– The great thing about the way Spader played it, which was not overt, was the lacking the social cues, and things like that. Listen, if it’s made a difference for recognition factor for people, then I’m incredibly happy. And I enjoyed playing that part of it and exploring more of the circumstances of that. And I’m glad we have a greater understanding of that personality type. I don’t wanna call it condition, like it’s something, it’s like–

David Read:
No, it’s not. It’s–

Michael Shanks:
… [inaudible] a personal degree.

David Read:
We are a rainbow of different kinds of creatures.

Yvie Cahill:
Same vision.

Michael Shanks:
It’s a scale. It’s so neat. I possess a certain part of it as well.

David Read:
But you’ve figured out how to tether it into a superpower. And you just know how to sling it.

Michael Shanks:
There’s a sliding scale. Everybody’s got it to a certain degree. It’s a matter of where the dial sits.

Lane Gates:
We all have our own little obsession with something.

David Read:
The answer to your question, Michael, is Krista Allen.

Michael Shanks:
Krista Allen. That’s who originally they’d offered the part to.

David Read:
I did not know that.

Michael Shanks:
You didn’t know that? That was something that–

Yvie Cahill:
It’s news to me.

Michael Shanks:
And she couldn’t do it. She was doing something else, so she couldn’t do it. I hadn’t seen Farscape at this point. I’d met Ben on a plane. And when Claudia showed up, and I had this, I don’t know, because they told me that they offered it to Krista. I had this archetype in my head–

David Read:
You had to pivot.

Michael Shanks:
Claudia is not like Krista Allen. Very different take on the character. And that’s what’s so funny about that, that people don’t realize in terms of an actor putting their stamp on things. That’s how different something could be, where you couldn’t visualize anybody else playing Vala, and couldn’t picture any other way to play Vala than the way Claudia did. Imagine the different… Not to say there’s anything wrong, but it’s a different take.

David Read:
Yvie, let’s …

Yvie Cahill:
I’m thinking.

David Read:
… pivot away from Stargate for a couple of minutes.

Yvie Cahill:
OK. Am I reading the next question?

David Read:
Antony’s question, please.

Yvie Cahill:
Antony’s question?

Michael Shanks:
But make it about lawn care.

David Read:
I actually could really use some help with that right now.

Michael Shanks:
With Lane, let’s go into heavy equipment operation. Let’s do this. Come on, we can answer some questions.

Lane Gates:
Lawn care, love it.

Michael Shanks:
You have to drain the diesel line.

Lane Gates:
Always, actually.

Yvie Cahill:
All right. So, next question from Antony. And Antony says, “You won a Leo Award in 2004 for Dramatic Series Best Lead Performance Male for the episode “Lifeboat.” As an actor, it must be hard to get into that psyche of one character. How did you manage with so many, and did you get confused with who was who?”

Michael Shanks:
Not to delve too deeply into the weeds on an actor’s process, but I had done a TV movie where a girl had a multiple personality disorder in the movie. And it was one of those Lifetime Channel kinda movies. And they had cast her two days before we started shooting. So, the actress had been cast from an audition. So, she went from having audition sides to now being handed the script, where she’s playing eight different personalities in this one person. I was playing her psychologist. And I watched how she struggled because she didn’t have preparation time. And so, a lot of it fell into sort of cliché.

Yvie Cahill:
That’s rough.

Michael Shanks:
And it wasn’t her fault. It was like, “OK, now you’re playing temptress version of the character.” And I remember sitting there going, “This is not fair,” sitting there as another actor watching her struggle, and she was sick at the time too. And I said, “This is not fair. Do these people understand our process?” It still happens to this day, and I always shake my head when you get an audition and there’s 14 pages or something like that. And you have to put that audition on tape or whatever in two days. And you’re like, “This is 14 pages. There’s a whole person here.” There’s a three-dimensional portrayal that I need. I wanna give you the best version of this, and you want the best version of this. And this feels like an experiment. Give us a little more time and you’ll get a better product at the other end. And that’s just an auditions. And this is a role.

Yvie Cahill:
You gotta respect the process.

Michael Shanks:
If you want this actor to be really good in this, give them a break. Throw them a bone. Anyway, to answer the question, so, I watched her go through this. And I had nothing but empathy for her. But I filed in my brain at that moment, “OK, if ever I get an opportunity to have that kind of challenge, to play a character with, you know, a brain full of personalities or whatever you wanna call it, time is the factor.” Brad had written the script, and I asked for it. When I heard that it was coming down the pike, I said, “Please get me whatever copy you have as soon as you have it so at least I have a ballpark idea of what, how many personalities I’m dealing with, what types they are, so I can start dissecting.” ‘Cause we’re also filming at the time, too. We’re also filming another episode while we’re learning this next episode that’s coming up. So, you don’t even have as much time as you would for an audition. You were literally on set during the day and then running off set. And I’m sitting in my trailer, and I’m going over, blah, blah, blah. And that’s enough of a chore to prep one, shoot one, and get copies of stuff, or if scene changes happen, blah, blah. Anyway, not to get too deep into the weeds. They were gracious enough to do that. So, I had the benefit of about a week of knowing what kind of character types there were. So, I had the preparation time to try and find them. Pick them out of– I’d go home at night and maybe watch a movie and say, “Oh, I like that guy. I’m gonna grab that guy. He sounds like my guy.” And that kind of thing. And then you start to take that and character develop it, dimensionalize it, whatever, and bring it to the thing. So, it’s–

Yvie Cahill:
Sorry, Michael.

Michael Shanks:
Go ahead, Yvie.

Yvie Cahill:
I was gonna say, when we watched this episode for Wormhole X-Tremists, I did a little bit of research, and I think I saw somewhere that you based one of the characters, Martice, on Ralph Fiennes’ character from Schindler’s List?

Michael Shanks:
Yes, correct.

Yvie Cahill:
Does that sound familiar? Wow.

Michael Shanks:
Sure does.

David Read:
That makes a lot of sense.

Yvie Cahill:
And there was another character where you tried to channel your inner Patrick Stewart?

Michael Shanks:
No, no. I did Tryan.

David Read:
The engineer.

Michael Shanks:
Tryan was Jack Lemmon in The China Syndrome.

David Read:
Very analytical.

Michael Shanks:
And in order to keep them straight in my head, again, with the shortened timeline, they all needed a bit of a different vocal quality. And that’s why you get Martice has a bit more of a standard English dialect. It’s not British, but it’s a standard English dialect, where he speaks a little bit like this. And then you have, Tryan had a Bostonian accent. He had a bit more of a drawl to it, a bit more of a thing. So, that when I transferred between the characters, I could keep them straight, and then everybody would know by the sound of the voice who it was as well. It’s not just for me, but for everybody else.

David Read:
It was a shorthand.

Yvie Cahill:
There was the little boy, wasn’t there?

Michael Shanks:
There was a little boy–

David Read:
Keenin.

Michael Shanks:
Keenin was– Peter DeLuise showed me the audition tape–

Yvie Cahill:
Yes, Ryan Drescher, I think, was his name.

David Read:
Didn’t you deliberately match him

Michael Shanks:
Yes. I deliberately matched him. So, he showed me his audition tape, and I took that into my trailer and stole it and did his mannerisms ’cause he was very deliberate about the way he would say things. And I was, “Oh, this kid’s– He’s already there. He’s done my work for me.” I know that takes away the, as I said, don’t get too deep in the weeds of actor’s process, but just like my good friend Lane here, we’re craftspeople. When we’re digging a ditch, when we’re digging a hole, when we’re putting– When we’re digging a rathole, you gotta dig the damn thing first before you put in the metal cylinder and then pour the concrete base to the side of it, blah, blah, blah. There’s a process and there’s a way of doing things that is not very sci– I shouldn’t say it’s not very, it’s scientific in the sense that it’s just work. That’s why we’re craftspeople. It’s just work. We’re just building a shelf in this process.

Lane Gates:
I have a question for you, though.

Michael Shanks:
People have different ways–

Lane Gates:
Do you have any tricks for memorizing, ’cause you had to memorize so many lines all the time, especially the big long tangents that you’d go on, that when you’re explaining something. Do you have any tricks for memorizing a lot of those lines? Was there a special process to it. ‘Cause, I mean, I couldn’t imagine getting it as correct as you could.

Michael Shanks:
I will say this: no, there’s no trick. It is pure hours put in. I joke with my family now about the hours I kept when I do a television program, ’cause I did the same thing with Saving Hope too, a lot of medical, expository dialogue. Not as much as Daniel did, thank God. But it’s just hours put in. Every moment that people go, “Oh, he’s going back to his trailer. Oh, no, no.” It’s, no, I’m going back to the office to learn. Like I said, we’re shooting one show and I’m trying to learn dialogue, but learn story and arc, mark out my beats and stuff like that. I still have a process in terms of marking up a script and circling certain words and trying to figure out the underlying– There’s a whole process. Again, it’s not glamorous. It’s not “Ooh, I just, I don’t know, I just show up on set and it just comes out.” It’s just building shelves, and it’s just hours. And I would joke that if I now, at my age, had to do the workload that I did when I was on Stargate, ’cause I would come home at eight o’clock at night, and we were a pretty civilized show as far as filming hours went.

David Read:
In the scheme of things.

Michael Shanks:
They wanted to do 12-hour days, and that was it because Rick didn’t want anybody to murder themselves making television. ‘Cause X-Files was across the way and they were shooting 20-hour days and stuff like that. It was crazy. And we never really– We did occasionally, but we didn’t do it that much. We would night shoot occasionally, which would really throw everybody off. So, it was just man hours, man. I would get home at 8:00, work out, and then break out the script and start learning tomorrow’s work and start peeking at the day after that and the day after that and the day after that. So, any moment that I had was spent trying to learn this stuff, so that I could do my job, which, as Rick always said, in early seasons when I had expository passages during the pilot, he said, “You’re screwed now.” And I said, “What are you talking about?” And he said, “You showed them you could do it.” And they sure did.

David Read:
The gobbledygook. Rick called it the gobbledygook.

Michael Shanks:
It wasn’t always pretty, but it was just sheer force of will, and I would literally sometimes have to choose the night before. I would have to choose between somewhat more clear-headed, go to bed at 2:00 to wake up at 6:00 or stay up an extra hour, 3:00, 4:00, or something like that, and not get any sleep, but keep learning the things. You choose: is it better to be clear-headed tomorrow, or am I gonna be rat-arsed but know the words, or am I gonna kinda know the word? Those are the kind of choices.

David Read:
And to eat healthy and exercise and to have a little bit of a life.

Michael Shanks:
All of that. Never mind how I look in the morning, the makeup artist at this point would have to put me together with a plaster–

Lane Gates:
Thank God for the makeup department.

David Read:
The things that Jan saw, I can only imagine.

Michael Shanks:
And I was young. That’s what I mean, it’s sheer force of will. There were no tricks ’cause it’s not– My wife actually, she can learn lines really fast, which is a gift. I don’t have that ability. So, it was about practice, practice, practice, reinforce, reinforce, and then get there and do what you could.

Lane Gates:
Was it, were you able to get to the point where you could see the lines in your head? Or was it just muscle memory, like you said, knowing what you’d have to say?

David Read:
That’s an interesting question.

Michael Shanks:
We always say about writing, you can really tell good writing because it doesn’t take that much to memorize. Because if you get somebody writing something that this is how people talk, and this is what the thought process is, then it’s usually pretty straightforward to get underneath it. It’s what I call putting the train on the tracks. And then you can just push it and the choo-choo looks after itself, because whatever emotional state that you’re in comes naturally through the words that are coming out of your mouth, and so does the thought process. When it’s not, that’s the big challenge, is because now it’s just words. It’s like learning something phonetically. Like learning a different language phonetically. It’s the same as when you’re memorizing this stuff: if the emotional shifts don’t make any sense, it doesn’t feel right and your body kinda rejects it, goes, “Wait a minute, I don’t– That’s not how that makes me feel.” And you have to grab it and pull it over here, so it’s–

Lane Gates:
You force it to that point.

Michael Shanks:
Something’s easier to memorize when it’s really well-written, because that’s how people think, that’s how people speak.

David Read:
I am gonna give you a trigger warning, OK? I’m not sure how you’re going to feel, but I’m just gonna feel you out.

Michael Shanks:
Buy me a drink first, for God’s sake.

David Read:
I’m gonna let you swallow first, OK? You ready?

Michael Shanks:
Let’s go.

David Read:
OK, here we go. Emmabentley—

Michael Shanks:
Ribbed for my pleasure.

Lane Gates:
Why is it black?

Michael Shanks:
Let me tell you a little story.

David Read:
When a man and a woman fall in love. Emmabentley7945, “How do you feel after all this time about the zat? And how would you feel about a reunion with it in the future?” A crying, laughing face, “Had to ask.” It’s important to understand, the props people, they were constantly replacing these things, in all manner. The pneumatic ones had three charges of opening and closing. And this piece here shot forward and back. And if you’re not paying attention, the visual effects will suck it up and you’ll never know. I didn’t know for years. And on top of that, these sections here, where it would be here and where it would be here, were replaced with latex glove material that dried out after a few days, because they needed an elasticity in order to hide the moving parts. That was still in place all the way through Continuum at the end. So, these things–

Michael Shanks:
You can’t even tell the story without sounding like–

David Read:
I know. It feels like I’m reading from a technical manual, and I don’t have the terminology.

Michael Shanks:
But it also is, the way you’re describing it is so loaded as well, so to speak.

David Read:
I warned you.

Michael Shanks:
In order for it, you had to press the button for it to get erect. And they wanted it to have the thrusting motion of the forward part …

David Read:
No. There are kids watching at home, I know.

Michael Shanks:
… which nobody ever saw.

David Read:
They couldn’t.

Michael Shanks:
Nobody. Even in the closeup shot, with that ridiculous closeup shot of the blast coming out the front of the weapon in several different episodes that we used, there was this motion when you opened it up, like it was a CO2-charged thing, where you pressed the button, you’d open it up so that that Z would become a bigger Z, Or Zed, depending on where you’re from.

Yvie Cahill:
Capital Zed.

Michael Shanks:
And then you’d press the button on the side, and the front– They spent thousands of dollars to make this happen. The front of it would go… That’s what it would do. With the working copies of that, like you have, that’s what, a 3D printed–

David Read:
It’s a replica.

Michael Shanks:
That’s sturdy. When you get the practical ones and they’d open, they were on little tiny hinges with little tiny fabric, whatever, and then once it was erect, you’d press the button and it would go… And that was the working one. Which nobody in the history of viewing of the show ever saw that thing do its thousands of dollars motion of …

David Read:
I don’t know why they didn’t catch on.

Michael Shanks:
… to put the effect in. Put the light in so it–

David Read:
Stop making it do that. Save yourself some trouble.

Michael Shanks:
You could have the damn thing in the same position, like a phaser, for example. And have it do that. But it had to get erect and then thrust.

Yvie Cahill:
Oh, I have a follow-up question, actually.

Michael Shanks:
Keep going because this is my favorite topic.

David Read:
Keep going. Keep in mind, you want to stay on Wormhole X-Tremists. Inserting that, pardon the pun.

Yvie Cahill:
This is clean, I promise.

David Read:
I’m glad Nicole’s not here, I’m saying.

Yvie Cahill:
I was gonna ask Michael what he thought about them getting rid of the disintegration capabilities of the Zat. ‘Cause for a while there, it was, what, the third shot made everything disappear?

Michael Shanks:
But this is also one of the practical problems. When? When? Because one shot stuns, two shots kill. Three shots disintegrate. When? I got shot by several Zats. Shouldn’t I, the second time I got shot, die? Why am I getting stunned again? What’s the time lapse on disintegration? Is it you have to wait three hours before you can go back in the pool? How long is it before you disintegrate after you–

Lane Gates:
You gotta hit it three times in a row.

Michael Shanks:
And how come all of a sudden, in “1969,” when O’Neill shoots the lock off the box–

David Read:
And unlocks it.

Michael Shanks:
They open locks now or something?

David Read:
They added a rule.

Michael Shanks:
Shouldn’t it be stunned? Shouldn’t that lock be stunned first? Shouldn’t you have to shoot it three times before?

David Read:
“I can’t unlock that, you guys.”

Yvie Cahill:
Good point.

David Read:
“You gotta give me a minute to rest.”

Michael Shanks:
“Oh, it’s dead. It’s not opening now. It’s dead. I shot it a third time. I disintegrated the whole box.” I’m not being too nitpicky when I nitpick this stuff. It had its flaws. To answer the original question of how would I feel about a reintroduction to it? Tepid. Tepid. It’s myself and the Zat, I don’t know, over the years, you saw certain people, Teal’c and Carter always had a Zat as a sidearm– over the years. You notice that Daniel never did. That’s because Michael would say, “Get that thing away from me unless we need it for the episode. I don’t want anything to do with that silly device,” because for lack of a better word, it was silly. Silly gun. Sad gun. Bad gun.

Lane Gates:
Maybe we’ll get an upgraded version in the show now.

Michael Shanks:
Listen, to be 100% fair to all the creatives that I know, and it feels like I’m crapping on the people that created the thing. There’s a lot of work that went into our weapons and stuff like that, so it is what it is. The whole disintegration thing was brought about as a result of the episode where it was introduced in “Serpent’s Grasp?”

David Read:
You got it, buddy.

Michael Shanks:
Was that it? Yay.

Yvie Cahill:
Well done.

David Read:
Let me see, let me see if you still remember this one. Castiana, Sahal, and–

Michael Shanks:
Vagon Brei.

David Read:
Whoo! He’s got it.

Michael Shanks:
The dementia has clearly set in.

Yvie Cahill:
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Michael Shanks:
I’ll be saying that to my children in my hospital bed.”Vagon Brei.”

David Read:
That’s it. “No, no, no, I am Daniel Jackson.” “No, no, I’m Daniel Jackson.” God, I loved him. He was so good.

Michael Shanks:
I tell you, Lexa on Andromeda, we had the at gun, and we all thought it was silly. But their regular sidearm was something called a Force lance. And you can’t imagine the behind-the-scenes that would go on with a Force lance, ’cause all it was, was a stick. It was a stick that you fired like a flashlight. And then if you wanted to fight hand-to-hand, you could press a button, and it would go out like a lightsaber, like a double-edged lightsaber, where you could fight it with a stick. And it was called a Force lance. Ladies and gentlemen, come on. And I think one of Sorb’s favorite lines was, “Wanna see my Force lance?” And he would do that to everybody that would listen.

Yvie Cahill:
Sorb.

David Read:
“I thought you were Jewish.”

Michael Shanks:
He’s not religious anymore. So, yeah, science fiction weapons are not an easy game for anybody. It’s just–

Lane Gates:
Not always so practical.

David Read:
Michael, are you good?

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, I probably got another 15 to half an hour, somewhere in that ballpark. I gotta go pick up my daughter.

David Read:
All right. Perfect. Thank you for letting me know. Thank you. Lane

Lane Gates:
We got a question from bellavirgo8073. “What do you think of AI as characters like yourself? Good, bad, or indifferent?”

David Read:
We haven’t really talked about this. I’m very interested to hear what you’re willing to say.

Michael Shanks:
Well, for fun, for sport, it’s fine. I think Browder, of all people, sent me a– What was it? Trailer Park SG-1 or something like that. Somebody had done a YouTube video. Where we were all …

Yvie Cahill:
Hicks.

Michael Shanks:
… redneck hicks, and something like that. And it’s great for–

David Read:
They put a lot of work into that thing.

Michael Shanks:
No kidding. I wouldn’t even know. Like I said, it’s hard for me to–

David Read:
So, many scenes.

Michael Shanks:
It’s hard for me to be on Zoom right now, I’m so tech unsavvy. My wife holds my hand if she’s around. So, the idea of AI stuff is– Listen, there was a strike. The actors and the writers went on strike because of the fear of what AI would bring, and how I feel about it? With me, myself, in terms of if somebody puts up an AI for shits and giggles, knock yourself out.

David Read:
For memes.

Michael Shanks:
Yeah. I don’t care about that. If it, you know, it’s in the realm of where it gets into reproducing your work, that– Was it Romulus, Alien: Romulus, with Ian Holm. The recreation of Ian Holm in the aggregate. You sort of go, “Well, you know, he’s a robot, so it’s a little bit funky.” It’s not quite, you know, human enough-looking kind of thing. It’s still got a few bugs to iron out before they can really– But Ian Holm has passed. They created him and his voice; his voice was perfect, and you’re like, “Oh, that’s scary how they can recreate people.” And the way that things have always worked in contracts is that in perpetuity for all of time, they own my image. MGM owns my image as Daniel Jackson in perpetuity for all of time. So, can they reproduce Michael Shanks walking to the grocery store for a sh–? No, but can they produce Daniel Jackson? Yeah. We handed them that. That was what the strike was about, was just temper the language of that because, of course, when those contracts were originally signed, this wasn’t even dreamt of. Or if it was, it was just dreamt of. So, I have no problem with it in fun. In practicality, it’s a problem, because I don’t even know, my youngest daughter is following in my footsteps by getting a university theater degree. Oh my God. She’s gonna be an actor someday. And this is a whole new world, a whole new paradigm that’s meting out for that generation than the one I had to deal with. We’re all trying to catch up because the technology is so quick. As tech goes, it’s happening exponentially right in front of our eyes, so we’re all trying to keep up. And we’re trying to keep even just abreast of– I mean, I, what did, not to get too deep in the weeds on AI but how many people thought that the announcement of the Stargate show was BS because of how many clickbait, AI-generated stories that came out that had X, Y, and Z? Henry Cavill’s starring and Liam Hemsworth is starring in the new version, blah, blah, blah.

David Read:
That’s why GateWorld was so crucial to that launch because Darren, He wouldn’t budge for years on any news because he couldn’t get a second source. So, it wasn’t happening. So, he had these websites left and right that were just spitting, cranking them out and ranking, cranking in the ad dollars. And I’m not someone who will take a single red cent from fans. I will not do it, even to do this show. I run a huge deficit doing this, and it’s just, it’s my labor of love. But Darren, when he published it, people knew. And people were like, “What does GateWorld say?”

Michael Shanks:
And he’s one of the few people that have scruples. There’s a lot of people out there that don’t, that go after it.

David Read:
They just don’t care.

Michael Shanks:
Like I said, just for the clicks. Just for the traffic. It’s all a traffic war.

David Read:
They’re putting two of these things out a day for the next year and a half.

Michael Shanks:
The writers, the actors, they’re all concerned about the potential for AI. Like I said, for fun it’s great, but we’re all kinda concerned .Here’s the thing. I’m not concerned when it comes to an AI actor replacing a human being. It’s a novelty now. It’s like animation to me, right? It’s like when Disney and– Help me out with …

David Read:
More information.

Michael Shanks:
… the guys that do the Disney animated movies.

David Read:
Oh, Pixar?

Michael Shanks:
Pixar, thank you, God.

David Read:
You’re all right.

Michael Shanks:
When Pixar, when it went from the drawings to the computer-animated stuff, I was in university at the time it happened.

David Read:
Toy Story.

Michael Shanks:
And I remember seeing that first little lamp story …

David Read:
Oh, yeah. Luxo.

Michael Shanks:
… I remember going, “That looks really good.” And so, I look at AI human creation as a form of animation. We’ve been reproducing what people look, sound like, what things look, sound like, in– We finally come to the place where we can replace them, like an avatar and stuff like that. But what you cannot eliminate– I think there’s a place for it. In the world of entertainment, there is a place for AI for storytelling. And I’m always a big fan of that. But what it will never replace is human beings, because we want– The reason that this is a thing is we’re all looking for a reflection of our human experience. And no matter how good the tech gets, it’ll get good at imitating, but it won’t get good at getting– You cannot imitate a soul. And that’s what artists bring to the work, is the soul. You can imitate a politician in an AI thing, but when you look in the eyes after a while, you know it’s BS.

David Read:
But your kids have to look in the eyes of people to recognize it. And these Zoomers, they’re gonna be much more comfortable with tech than we are.

Michael Shanks:
We as human beings, with movies, with TV, we’re all looking for a reflection of our own lives. We’re all looking for some reflection, “To hold as ’twere the mirror up to nature,” as Shakespeare said. We’re all looking for that. Show me what I feel, show me how to feel. Show me what it would feel like if I had to do what that character’s doing, blah, blah, blah. Otherwise, it’s not a thing. What are we doing? We’re just up there doing pratfalls and slipping on banana peels and whatever, we’re entertaining, but we want an emotional bond. And part of that process, like it or not, is also knowing that when we fall in love, as an example, with a character, we sometimes fall in love with that actor because we associate them. And to know that they’re real is an important part of that, that they’re a flesh and blood human being is a part of that because we know, “I could actually meet them someday. I could–” And that’s obviously–

David Read:
You fantasize.

Michael Shanks:
Exactly. If the entertainment industry to a large degree is about sex, then we wanna know that if that person finally divorces that person, I finally have my shot. And that’s been the way it’s been since entertainment began. And that’s why there is such a thing as celebrity, is we all have our crushes and our whatevers. And so, it’s a big– If someone does a great AI performance, I go, “Wow, that was great, a great imitation of a human being.”

David Read:
That’s it. Even if it made you feel something.

Michael Shanks:
That’s right. I can empathize with WALL·E, when he’s trapped on his trash world and he falls in love with the girl and whatever. I go, “Oh my God, that’s, you know, the first crush I had,” kind of thing. And he’s a robot, he’s an animated robot, for God’s sake. I can empathize with him. I can certainly empathize with an AI character, but it’s about finding that soul. So, actors will never be replaced, but I think that there’s a place in the entertainment world for this stuff.

David Read:
I remember Knights of the Old Republic, around ’02. It’s a Star Wars title. One of the greatest games ever made. And I had never been attracted to any inanimate thing before, and then Bastila Shan came along. And I spent 40 hours with Bastila and by the end of that journey, I had fallen in love with a 2D animated character. I didn’t desire her, but I cared so much about–

Michael Shanks:
Is she the tentacle-headed girl?

David Read:
No, she was the Jedi who had the– Yep. You gotta be careful with your gestures. Michael. Do this.

Michael Shanks:
What is this?

David Read:
Do this.

Michael Shanks:
OK. See, this is how tech-savvy I am. Thank you, David, for giving me all these cues.

David Read:
You’re very welcome. I had a–

Michael Shanks:
Lane’s like, “I don’t get any confetti.”

Lane Gates:
I don’t get any of that.

David Read:
I had a perfectly clippable moment with an actor, a few episodes ago and the exact moment in the hour that I would’ve wanted to clip it, she did this and balloons floated up behind her. And it was like, “You just ruined that shot.” You know what, you can just go fly a kite. Stop it. Anyway. But I fell for this character. And I think it was mostly the voice. But I still think about her. She’s still a part of that period of my life.

Michael Shanks:
For sure.

David Read:
And she doesn’t exist. And it’s kinda wild. Maybe I’m screwed up. Anyway.

Michael Shanks:
No, no. But that’s what it is. It’s about that– And there’s emotion attached to it. It’s not just, “I have a crush on whatever.” You have a crush on a character that’s there in a situation, demonstrating something about themselves that you can relate to in the situation.

David Read:
And it was unnerving. It was like, “What’s happening to me?” Yvie, one last question for Michael, and it’s yours. And Lane, buddy, thank you.

Lane Gates:
No problem.

Yvie Cahill:
I’ll just go with the next one highlighted.

David Read:
The one in red. quentinrom.

Yvie Cahill:
So, quentinrom5075, “Michael, how often were you able to get away with riffing some of your lines?”

David Read:
Because Rick was the king of that, but did they give you any room?

Michael Shanks:
Yes. Early seasons, no. But what was great about the early seasons is that, because Rick. I wouldn’t do it unless Rick was there. I was being cautious, good actor, young, minding my Ps and Qs, doing my job, and trying not to step on toes. But when Rick would go off the page, “Well, you’re off the page now. This line doesn’t work anymore, so OK.” “What’s off the top of my head?” And I’ve always been pretty good at keeping up with improv and whatnot, so it became that thing. And because he was looking for somebody to play with, that’s where that dynamic grew out of. And as the years went on, I remember, by Season Eight, they were really being strict with the cast of Atlantis, because it was their first season on that show with lines and whatnot. And by Season Eight–

David Read:
Completely different feeling over there.

Michael Shanks:
I’m shooting– Because Rick is still around, but I’m more comfortable doing my own thing, that I almost felt bad for them, because if we had to do a scene or something, I could go off the page and the writers would go, “Oh, that’s fine, we trust you.” But with those guys, they’d be like, “What do you mean you trust him?” Like, “You’re telling me which period I have to stop at, and you’re telling him he could just say a completely different thing.” It was one of those things that the trust was earned at that point. If Michael went off the page, he knew where he was going with it, so give him a chance before we grab him and rein him back in or whatever. “Michael’s going off the page? We’ll see what pops out of his mouth, might be funny. Occasionally he says something humorous. Who knows?” So, there was a lot more leash given as the years went on. And then, of course, when Claudia came back to the show, we were, again, outside of exposition, we were shooting from the hip when it came to certain beats. Whatever popped out of her mouth, it was, “Get them in that two-shot.” Rick always said when we were doing it, “Get the two-shot.” When we were off the page, the little Abbott/Costello dynamic happening in the two-shot was priceless. And if you could capture the lightning in a bottle in that moment, then you could even though you’re offending them by not saying their words, you could also show them, “Yeah, but this is better.”

Yvie Cahill:
Well, I was going to ask a follow-up question to that.

David Read:
Go ahead.

Yvie Cahill:
In the episodes of Atlantis that you appeared in, were you strictly having to keep to the script or did they give you a little bit more leeway?

David Read:
He was with Hewlett at that point, so he didn’t have a lot of– They had a lot of dialogue to get through.

Michael Shanks:
I only did the two, outside of the pilot, which was pretty sterile in terms of our dialogue in that. When it was with Hewlett, he’s always– Hewlett’s a well-seasoned actor and strangely enough, Martin Gero wrote those episodes. And he was the one who was on set, writing additional dialogue for us, because we would blast through those scenes …

David Read:
Too fast.

Michael Shanks:
… way too fast. I think I re-watched them recently, and I said, “Oh, my God, our storyline seems so short by comparison, because we’ve got three, four, five pages in 30 seconds or, you know, 45 seconds and then, it’s back to Flanigan on the, you know, whatever ship, dealing with the suit bad guys. You know, gunfire and all the other stuff. Where, back to us, talking, barararara, bing, gone. But again, part of the beauty– We stuck to the script for the most part because there was a lot of exposition in what we were doing too. But when it came to the banter part, there was probably– I’d have to re-watch it to see where, but there was probably a lot of leeway given for -isms between the lines. But there was a lot of exposition, so we would always stick to the dialogue for exposition. Because that’s the pipe of the story. That’s the structure of the story. You can’t deviate from that for your own purposes.

David Read:
May I ask one final question?

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, of course.

David Read:
So, “Window of Opportunity,” one of my favorite beats is, “You guys are gonna have to help me by learning and remembering,” and then Jack goes, and he’s like, “How hard can it be?” And then Daniel goes– It’s subtle. It’s perfect. Please tell me that that was an ad lib.

Michael Shanks:
No.

David Read:
It was in the script?

Michael Shanks:
No, that was scripted.

Yvie Cahill:
Oh, burst his bubble.

David Read:
So, funny.

Michael Shanks:
The joke is set up right there. Like, how hard can it be?

David Read:
You can’t tell. It’s not possible. It’s so good.

Michael Shanks:
But that’s the, that’s the–

David Read:
Do you miss him? Do you miss that exchange? With an older brother? Or is it, “You know what? That was a good time, but that was pretty intense. I’m good.” Oh, Michael, I can’t hear ya. Can you guys hear him?

Lane Gates:
Nope.

Yvie Cahill:
No.

David Read:
Something happened. I think his Zoom crashed. You’re muted, buddy. You’re on mute. There we go. Try it again. Uh-oh. You wanna log out and log back in, and then we can wrap you up? Can Lexa do that? I’m so sorry. If you’ve gotta go, you’ve gotta go. It’s OK.

Lane Gates:
He’s just miming. The microphone’s fine.

David Read:
This is the interpretive dance part of the conversation.

Yvie Cahill:
Talking about going off-script.

David Read:
Here, let me call him, and he can speak through this, and we can–

Michael Shanks:
Can you hear me now?

David Read:
Yes.

Yvie Cahill:
Yes.

Michael Shanks:
It’s because the microphone ran outta battery. It’s one of these little–

David Read:
Aw, it’s OK. So, go ahead and give us your final thoughts. Man, it knew. It knew when to give out.

Michael Shanks:
Yeah, it said, “Get this book off my fucking screen, I’m sick of listening to your shit.” Sorry. What were we talking about?

David Read:
With Rick, do you miss …

Michael Shanks:
Oh, yeah, whenever I see Rick, we–

David Read:
… that back and forth?

Michael Shanks:
Rick is old enough to be my dad, in the sense that he’s 20 years older than I am. But he’s my immature older brother, when it comes to the dynamic that we have. But what he has is a great intelligence and knowledge of other stuff. Like I said when I referenced Abbott and Costello and whatnot, we both know– And when we were at a convention, and I just– There was nobody else that probably would’ve gotten this, is that I’m telling this story about an owl that I accidentally ran over when I was on a road trip this year, that jumped out in the middle of the road and I accidentally hit him with a car in the middle of the highway. Of course, Rick, listening to this story, is like, “Who?” I said, “The owl.” “Who?” “The owl.” “Who?” Third base. And it’s– Do you get the joke? ‘Cause him and I laughed our asses off.

Lane Gates:
Who?

Michael Shanks:
It’s the Who’s on First. Who’s on first. “Who?” “Who?” “The guy playing first base.” “Who?” “The guy playing first base.” “Who?” “What’s on second base?” “Who?” “First base.” I don’t know what you’re talking about.” “Third base.” Anyway. And he and I were laughing our asses off. I don’t know if anybody else caught it. But we were– And that’s the thing, is that we can have that, that giggle, even if nobody else understands. And so, that’s the camaraderie that I have with him, as a human, is that, that sort of sideline way of thinking that I cherish. Yeah, it’s rare.

David Read:
That’s a family. Michael, you have gone above and beyond. You have given so much of your life …

Michael Shanks:
I’m so sorry for being late.

David Read:
… to us.

Michael Shanks:
I’m so sorry, everybody, that’s such a [inaudible] move.

David Read:
This was a blessing. This guy, Lane, got to hang out with you. Those two characters are very important to so many of us, and we’re glad that we got to spend this afternoon with the two of you. There are still 900 people in here, and it’s been consistent. Do you know what that says? It says that you guys–

Michael Shanks:
But we’re knocking ’em off. We’re knocking ’em off.

David Read:
But there’s more coming on. We’ve had 9,000 views.

Michael Shanks:
If we talk for another hour, we’ll get that number down to 700.

David Read:
He’s being modest, so. But thanks, guys, really. Michael, we’re gonna let you go. I’m gonna wrap up …

Michael Shanks:
All right.

David Read:
… with these two, OK?

Michael Shanks:
Awesome, guys. Thank you so much.

David Read:
Thank you for everything.

Lane Gates:
Good seeing you again, Michael.

Michael Shanks:
And congratulations to the fandom. I’m very excited about this next chapter, and I know you guys are too. So, looking forward to it. Bye.

David Read:
Bye now.

Michael Shanks:
Thank you.

Yvie Cahill:
Thanks, Michael.

Lane Gates:
Take care.

David Read:
Guys. Lane, thanks, buddy.

Lane Gates:
No problem. Anytime.

David Read:
You did yeoman’s work today. You really helped us out with Yvie and everything here. Come on, come on.

Lane Gates:
Anytime. Great to see you guys.

David Read:
There we go, got it. I have to have my squares in order, I’m moving you around on this side. If you enjoyed the episode, give us a like.

Yvie Cahill:
Please do.

David Read:
If you wanna watch a couple of folks riff on some Stargate episodes that you know and love in real time, to rewatch with you, this is the place where you can do it. We are the Wormhole X-Tremists. We’re missing one right now, but, Lane, you’ve been a great pinch hitter, buddy. Um, this, this …

Lane Gates:
Thank you.

David Read:
… means the world to me that you did this. And I think Michael, I think he really enjoyed that, so–

Lane Gates:
Yeah, so did I.

Yvie Cahill:
Reunion.

Lane Gates:
Having that picture ready to go there, That was meant to be, for sure.

David Read:
I asked him to dig some out, and I can’t wait to see what he’s got next. So, we’re gonna have him back at some point here soon. If you enjoy the channel, poke around here, guys, before you leave, and see some of our shorts. Yvie has spent so much time working on some of these, and they’re hilarious. They’re just little time capsules of our journey …

Yvie Cahill:
Little snippets. There’s hundreds of them, I think.

David Read:
… over the past three years that we didn’t realize we’ve been building towards this.

David Read:
Yvie, you did great. What time is it there? Is it 4:00 in the morning?

Yvie Cahill:
Thank you. It’s 5:00 in the morning, the sun has come up.

David Read:
You’re gonna go back to bed?

Yvie Cahill:
Yes, I think so. I think I’ll have to catch just a little bit of sleep, so I’m prepared for the next stream.

David Read:
Give Adam my love, and–

Yvie Cahill:
Will do.

David Read:
We will speak tomorrow. We’re gonna have two episodes, SG-1 and Atlantis. And then on Wednesday, at– Is it 1:00 PM Pacific Time?

Yvie Cahill:
Midweek movie.

David Read:
And it’s Upgrade, which, if you have not seen this, this is one of my favorite films.

Yvie Cahill:
I haven’t seen it.

David Read:
Logan Marshall-Green. It’s a Black Mirror episode. It’s very dystopian, it has a lot to do with AI, what we just saw. And it was like, “Yeah, I can see that.” And then it ends in such a way where it’s like …

Yvie Cahill:
I’m excited.

David Read:
… “I hope I don’t live long enough to see the rise of that.” So, if you wanna be terrified before Thanksgiving in the United States, come join us on Wednesday. We’re gonna let you all go.

Yvie Cahill:
Midweek terror.

David Read:
The livestream with Steven Culp is coming in just 50 minutes here. I’m gonna try and get food in at some point.

Yvie Cahill:
And it’ll be back on Dial the Gate.

David Read:
Yes, on Dial the Gate. We are up and running now. He played Henry Wallace in Stargate Atlantis, the episode “Miller’s Crossing.” So, he’s going to be joining us over there. I loved him as Major Hayes in Star Trek Enterprise. So, there’s a lot more to head your way. Appreciate you both. My name is David Read for the Dial the Gate. I really appreciate you sticking with me. If you like what we do, hang around for more, ’cause we’re gonna get you some more. See you on the other side, guys. Bye-bye.