We are delighted to welcome the return of Stargate writer and producer, Alan McCullough, to share memories from writing all three of Stargate’s TV series!

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Welcome, everyone, to Episode 320 of Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I appreciate you being here with me. Alan McCullough is live. Hello, sir.

Alan McCullough:
Hello.

David Read:
Writer and producer, Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, Universe. It’s a pleasure to have you back.

Alan McCullough:
Thank you so much. A pleasure to be back.

David Read:
And if you are in the live chat, go ahead and submit your questions to the moderating team and — Whoops. What button is that? That is the wrong button assignment. OK, that’s weird. I can’t explain. That’s a new one. The moderating team will get those questions over to me. What’s been going on, man? What’s been keeping you busy?

Alan McCullough:
I don’t know. It’s been a little bit slow lately. I’ve been working on some new projects. The industry took a big downturn after the WGA strike.

David Read:
It did.

Alan McCullough:
We’re trying to … Nobody … Who knew? It’s been pretty slow, but I’ve got a couple projects that I’m pitching now here in Canada. I live in Toronto, Canada. I just sold a pilot to a company in Calgary. We’ll see where that goes. There’s another couple projects that are being circulated as we speak, so we’ll see.

David Read:
Can we be doom and gloom for a couple of minutes?

Alan McCullough:
Can we do doom and gloom or …

David Read:
Can we discuss doom and gloom for a couple of minutes?

Alan McCullough:
Absolutely.

David Read:
I hear that you guys are getting hit harder than our film and TV industry is down here, in terms of … And this is one of the things that I feared after the strikes from a couple of years ago. I’m not gonna say I called it, but it feels a lot like it because I knew that there was gonna be a retraction coming in terms of the volume of content, and I anticipated something around 50%, and a lot of that seems to have been realized. What is your take? What’s goin’ on?

Alan McCullough:
I don’t know if it’s worse up here. Canada’s industry as a whole is probably 10% of the size of the US, if that. So, the fact that we produce fewer shows is just built into the DNA. But we also have fewer writers tryin’ to staff those shows. I think a lot of people … What I’ve noticed is that the budgets of every show have skyrocketed, but the license fees that the broadcasters pay — up here at least — haven’t changed at all. So really, it’s a question of you … In the old days, if you sold a show to a Canadian broadcaster, you could get started, you could start filming, you could … And then you could work on selling international territories, in the US, et cetera, to make up the rest of your financing as you went along. But that’s not really possible anymore. The license fee from a Canadian broadcaster is just too small. And so, you sold a pitch to a Canadian broadcaster, but you can’t really do anything with that until you have a US broadcaster on board, or foreign distributor, or foreign territories, or something like that. It’s really a producer problem more than it is a writer problem. I really feel for the Canadian producers who are caught in this trap. But it bleeds into my work as well, my profession as well, because there are fewer projects being greenlit to development, there are fewer projects being greenlit to the screen. There’s also only so many broadcast slots available. We have basically three or four main networks, and when you talk about the total number of prime-time slots in a week, subtract out all the shows that are gonna be bought from the US and broadcast here, which obviously Canadians love, and there’s no problem with that. But when you look at the few number of spots that are remaining for original Canadian series, it’s grim. Sorry. This is a way longer answer than you probably wanted.

David Read:
No, it’s the answer I wanted. I mean, it’s not the answer that I wanted; it’s a response that I wanted.

Alan McCullough:
OK. The further complicating factor is of course Netflix and Amazon and some of the other streamers have moved into Canada and set up Canadian operations. But there’s been some bureaucracy around what they have to contribute to the Canadian industry and how much and how many shows, and that’s been hotly debated for several years through successive governments. We just had an election. Everybody’s hoping that Bill C-11 — I think that’s the latest name — will finally codify what the streamers are going to be required to contribute, which will allow the streamers to plan and decide whether or not they wanna stay in Canada, or how they wanna do it.

David Read:
And then allocate accordingly.

Alan McCullough:
Yes. Exactly.

David Read:
OK. Wow, man. I can’t remember the last time I watched a network television series. I can’t even remember the last time I turned network on. Except when, “Oh, dang it. I picked the wrong input. Let me switch back … Oh, there’s network television.” Other than that, I can’t think of it. But I guess it’s terrestrial TV, sometimes I’m surprised that it still exists, and I have to wonder just how much longer before they’re like, “You know what? It’s not worth broadcasting this anymore. You’ve got a few people who –”

Alan McCullough:
It feels like it’s been on a downswing for almost a decade now. And streamers made it worse. Nothing against streamers. They just did what they were gonna do.

David Read:
Streamers gotta stream.

Alan McCullough:
Streamers gotta stream, exactly. And up here, our big broadcasters just don’t have the big, hefty studio funding behind them, so they’re really … The main source of funding for the broadcasters is the Canadian government. And that’s been clawed back little by little. The pandemic didn’t help.

David Read:
Fun times, my friend.

Alan McCullough:
I’m not an expert about it, but I’ve definitely noticed the slowdown.

David Read:
Let’s talk about this little franchise that we’re both familiar with called Stargate.

Alan McCullough:
On to happier news, yes.

David Read:
Now for something completely different. When you look back on your time with the franchise, and you’re putting pen to paper or fingers to keys, as it were, which characters flew off your pen or came out of your mind right onto the page or to the screen easier than any of the others? And which were the hardest for you to grasp? And I’ll let you tango with that from either end.

Alan McCullough:
Sure. I think among the episodes you’ve chosen to talk about today is certainly one of the characters who I dearly loved. I loved watching him, and I loved writing for him, and I found it easier to write for him, and that’s Baal, of course, Cliff Simon playing Baal. And I think a lot of the episodes that you curated for me today heavily involve, or at least the SG-1 episodes heavily involve, Baal. As far as the team goes, I remember Rob Cooper asked me this question in … We were doing a DVD commentary about possibly my first episode ever. I think it was “Prototype.” We were doing DVD commentary together. He asked me which character I found the most difficult to write for. And I said it was Mitchell because he was brand new. There wasn’t a body of work to observe or to listen and try to get his voice.

David Read:
To emulate.

Alan McCullough:
Exactly. And I stand by that, although Rob said, “Oh no, for us, it was Teal’c. We didn’t think that you captured the voice of Teal’c in the early days, at least, as well.” I think in the beginning, I still stand by that. I had a lot of trouble hearing Mitchell’s voice. A lot of the jokes that I gave him were really corny and didn’t really sit well on him. Whereas some of the other characters, I didn’t have that problem with, or at least I didn’t think I did.

David Read:
Can I level with you?

Alan McCullough:
Yeah.

David Read:
I really don’t think that Mitchell got to really find his voice. That’s my opinion. There’s a great scene that Ben plays in “Avalon 1” where Teal’c shoots at the wall with the P90, and Mitchell goes, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, man! Bullets bounce.” He keeps on doing that. And I’m like, “I see where this is going. This is great.” And we never really got anything like that again. He was played as lower key than Jack. Sheppard really is, “Did I do that? Did I make that thing appear on the ceiling?” He was cut much more of the same cloth as Jack in terms of being a bad boy. Mitchell was not a bad boy. He didn’t buck against authority. He was much more stand at attention and, “I’m ready to go. Yes, sir. You want me to jump? How high?” So, he was awkward, in my opinion, in a lot of the more casual situations. And I think that this is exemplified in an episode in, I believe, Season 10 where they’re all on a camping trip and Mitchell can’t settle down. He’s working the entire … So, they’ve at least taken that and said, “OK. We’re gonna crystallize this and make this his thing: he hears a sound, he hears the gunshot, he jumps out of his chair.” Things like that. Or am I completely off my rocker? Pardon the pun.

Alan McCullough:
No. I don’t think you are. And I think it’s funny, because when I went back and — you gave me some of the episodes we were gonna talk about today, and I … Honestly, I didn’t remember anything substantive about any of it, so I had to go —

David Read:
It’s OK. It’s only been like 20 years.

Alan McCullough:
Almost. I wrote them in …

David Read:
Nearly.

Alan McCullough:
… 2005, ’06. So, 20 years, yeah. Among them, in … I think it was “Stronghold,” we find out a little bit about Mitchell’s backstory, and how he was an ace pilot and a guy who plunged forward and didn’t wait to be told. And the whole final act of that episode is about … We staged a giant battle where Mitchell would run headlong and straight into gunfire and end up saving the day by disobeying orders. And I’m not sure that was ever… And that felt a little forced in that episode. I’m not sure how much of that we continue to see. It’s like you say, he seemed a little more by the book in the later seasons, and less throw caution to the wind. Obviously, the SG-1 team is going to take risks. They’re always going to do that.

David Read:
As an ensemble.

Alan McCullough:
As an ensemble. It actually happens again in “Off the Grid,” I think, when he comes up with that harebrained plan to pose as a drug dealer. It didn’t ever quite strike me as truthful for his character, such as it is.

David Read:
I never thought about it that way in terms of “Stronghold,” ’cause you’re trying to tie his personal arc of what’s happening with the Reed Diamond character back at the hospital into that situation, ’cause it’s on his mind to the point where Carter has taken point in this mission. He just follows her lead. And I love that they did that, that the characters trusted each other enough that it’s like, “You got this one.” “OK, I got this one. Now you’re gonna do what I tell you.” “OK.” And I liked that aspect of it. But I never really thought about behind the scenes in terms of when you guys are developing a story like that, “We’ve got this B story over here and we wanna tie it a little bit more solidly into the A story, so this may be a little bit unusual in this situation, but we’re going to make the character do this.”

Alan McCullough:
Yes.

David Read:
Wow, I’ve never thought of it that way.

Alan McCullough:
That’s happened. We’re definitely trying to weave a storyline together if there is a clear B story, which there isn’t always. But oftentimes … There was, in this case, a very distinct B story, distinct cutaways, distinct personal story for Mitchell with Reed Diamond, and you definitely wanna tie them thematically, if not plot-wise. I don’t think we really did on this one so much, but thematically, whatever Reed Diamond was saying to Mitchell influenced him to take that risk, and save the day, or undergo some kind of crazy act of heroism in the A story in the mission. I know Rob Cooper had in his mind … When we got into the concept meeting for this episode, or the stunts meeting, or the special effects meeting, Rob was like, “No, I want this to be a big battle. I want big. I want air ramps, people flying, I want tons of gunfire.”

David Read:
Like you’re attacking a stronghold?

Alan McCullough:
Yeah, legitimately, he wanted something big and maybe bigger than we’d seen on a Stargate episode in recent years at least. He really wanted to make it into something big. And I think it was to help solidify what they were trying to get outta Mitchell, or at least in that moment.

David Read:
They’re rescuing Teal’c if I’m remembering correctly.

Alan McCullough:
That’s right.

David Read:
What would you not do to save your friend under these certain conditions? And also with Mitchell, he played a lot with guilt in the back half of this season. If I’m not mistaken, was it “Collateral Damage?” That was the other one?

Alan McCullough:
Yes.

David Read:
With the Galaran memory technology that was introduced. Was it your idea to carry that into this episode? Or was that, “We have this story need here, we don’t share the secrecy of the program very often, let’s go ahead and use this piece of technology that we introduced.” Which came first?

Alan McCullough:
I’m not sure whose idea it was. It definitely didn’t come from me, at least originally. You have to remember that “Stronghold” would’ve been the second episode I had ever pitched. I pitched “Prototype.” That one got sold, and even that — I think I spoke about it last time — I think my original pitch for “Stronghold” was, “Teal’c gets kidnapped by some Jaffa Council members who are trying to disrupt the council, and we have to rescue him.” There may have been a little more to it than that, but that’s essentially all it was. I don’t even know if Baal had a part in my original pitch. I might have invented a low-grade Goa’uld to serve the purpose, and in fact — No, I’m sorry, in “Off the Grid,” I think I just created a low-grade Goa’uld who was trying to create a mini empire.

David Read:
Fiefdom.

Alan McCullough:
A mini fiefdom, and then when it became Baal, that obviously made the episode that much better rather than introducing somebody brand new. Certainly, the Galaran technology you’re talking about, none of that would’ve been a part of my original pitch. That would’ve all come through discussions in the room and breaking the story as a group. So, I can’t say whose idea it was, but I also can’t take credit for it.

David Read:
“I’m gonna be honest.” No, I appreciate that. The show is in its ninth season. You’re saying that there were instances where you created new characters to fill in certain roles. Where was the push-pull continuum in the room in terms of, “Well, we have all this mythology, let’s bring back someone that we know” versus “You know what, let’s create something new?” How often did one supersede the other? Was there an inclination to build the universe out further that first year that you’re remembering, or was there an inclination more to, “Look, we’ve got some really good satellite actors here. Let’s bring them in.”

Alan McCullough:
I think the inclination would probably have been the latter, to try to reuse who we already had. I think there were a lot of new elements being introduced in Season Nine: the Ori, the new … Mitchell. And so, I think when it came to other things, I suspect — I can’t swear to this, but I noticed it a lot when I went back and watched those episodes. There was an attempt not just to reuse people that we’d already used, but to tie those three episodes together. I’m talking about “Stronghold,” “Off the Grid,” and “Insiders” from Season 10. It was revealed in Season 10 — and maybe we didn’t even know this at the time we were doing the Season Nine episodes — that this was three stages of Baal’s plan, or the first two stages failed, and this was part three or something. I can’t remember … I think he was trying to set up the fiefdom before using the Merlin weapon to wipe out the galaxy, and that’s what the clones ostensibly had found out, which was also a lie, which is the beauty of —

David Read:
Typical Baal.

Alan McCullough:
Typical Baal, exactly. I believe that you always have a need to introduce certain new characters. But I think when it came to creating new enemies, there may have been a desire to use who we had in house already because it was just … Tracking the Ori storyline, you’re always gonna introduce new Priors and things like that. So, it gets to be a sea of faces after a while.

David Read:
“Off the Grid.”

Alan McCullough:
Yes.

David Read:
Maury Chaykin. He’s returned for a second episode. I love this. “General, what are you … You, you came. They, they, they told me you were coming. I didn’t believe them. I said, ‘I don’t believe you.'” I’m like … He doesn’t flange. He just does his thing. And the other thing that Brad mentioned that Maury once told him was, “‘Brad, how do I flange?'” Any memories of Nerus?

Alan McCullough:
I sadly did not get to meet Maury Chaykin in person. Or I mean, the closest I got was watching the dailies in advance of the show being cut together. But Maury Chaykin is one of a kind. Absolutely great. The only thing I remember about that particular episode is that there was some concern about was he gonna become too much of a goof? I mean, there’s always a concern with an actor like Maury Chaykin. You have to be able to pull levers, go bigger, go smaller, et cetera. And I think the performance we got out of Maury was great. I do remember there was a lot of unhappiness about the state of the prison bars. There was some time we cut away, and then the meal had arrived, and the —

David Read:
Stuff on them.

Alan McCullough:
Smeared all over the bars and I remember Brad being …

David Read:
“What is that? What’s he been throwing?”

Alan McCullough:
… just furious. “What … Why on Earth would … Why would, how, under what circumstances would that have happened with the two of them sitting there talking where he’s gonna get up and smear mashed potatoes on the bars?” But those are such minor things to be concerned about in an episode. But I do remember there was a bit of a kerfuffle about, “What are we gonna do? Can we digitally take them out? No, it’s too many shots. It’d be too expensive. Can we …” Et cetera.

David Read:
No, for sure. “What money do we have here?”

Alan McCullough:
Exactly.

David Read:
This was also one that I remember getting to the end of and being like, “Ugh, no resolution, again.” It cuts to Baal getting ready to staff Nerus, and it cuts away. So, it’s like …

Alan McCullough:
Yes.

David Read:
… “Did he, didn’t he?” And I appreciated finality. Even though you could clone them and bring them back if Baal really needed to. I’m sure he’s got his DNA on ice or something … “Need him for a science something or other. Let’s get your brain back in here.” How did you feel about that and how do you feel about that as a writer in terms of, “All right. Let’s just cut it here and leave it ambiguous? A thread for the future if we wanna use it or not.”

Alan McCullough:
I totally get it. I understand. Again, you’ve got a character like Nerus. You bring him back. He’s reliably funny. He’s reliably entertaining. I get why you might want to keep him around, and so I understand the sentiment. I think that we got drunk on our own Kool-Aid a little bit with the Baals. We opened up a can of worms with the cloning. Part of what “Insiders” — I know I’m skipping ahead —

David Read:
That’s fine.

Alan McCullough:
I think part of what “Insiders” was designed to do was like, “Let’s tone this down,” because there’s Baals running everywhere. We’re never gonna run out. Every time, he can feature in an infinite number of stories because, “It’s a new one, it’s a new one, it’s a new one.” And I think there was an attempt made in “Insiders” at least to identify how many of them there were and maybe reduce the number. So, there’s still more than one when they depart. But at least we’ve sort of captured them a little bit. I like finality as well. I can’t remember what happened in … is it “Dominion,” where the final Baal is actually killed or —

David Read:
That’s Continuum.

Alan McCullough:
Continuum. Ah. In the movie.

David Read:
The Tok’ra captured the last clone, and the original, who possessed the tracking device that could be removed, pays a visit to Earth. Let’s move along to “Insiders.”

Alan McCullough:
Just before we leave “Off the Grid,” I will say, the other hotly contested thing about “Off the Grid” was the opening scene, and then the loopback that, by the time we loop back, they just magically get away. It was written that we would never see it, but it wasn’t written that there would be seven gunmen all with their guns trained on Mitchell, and he would kinda chuckle, and then we would hard cut to them running in the woods. I was like, “Well, wait a second …” That to me felt like a bit of a cheat, and I know others felt the same way. The fact that Mitchell got away so magically always kinda spoiled that episode for me a little bit.

David Read:
Once we get the Asgard beaming technology, there is a play of — not that there wasn’t before, because there certainly was — but “just in the nick of time” comes into stark focus. These are adventure stories. At the end of the day, this one is more popcorn fare than it is Game of Thrones. As my dad says, “You’ve gotta buy it.” Do they keep on getting saved like this? Would they in real life? No. Does Vala switch on transport rings and magically find herself on the surface of an Ori planet in the Ori galaxy? Probably not. That, to me, is probably the biggest conceit of the franchise. And there are a couple of doozies in there, but that to me was a real stretch. The gymnastics that you would have to do to physically get her there, let alone an Ori ship at the other side of the Supergate for something. But I get it, and I appreciate it because it’s a great character and you wanna keep on using it. When you guys paint yourselves into the corner, sometimes you have to jump, leap over the paint, and sometimes you’re gonna get paint on you. And there’s only so many ways that you can do this after how many episodes? And in this case, your team doing 40 episodes a year? It was unheard of. It’s unheard of now.

Alan McCullough:
It is. It was crazy. I think that episode put in stark focus the problematic use of the Asgard beaming technology because it started earlier in the season where they wore the wrist bracelets or something, and then the bracelets were taken off.

David Read:
Then they got chips embedded in them, and they’d take the chips out.

Alan McCullough:
Then the chips, and it was, “We’ve got to figure out a way …” And then it was cloudy or out of range or this and this.

David Read:
“There’s too much interference,” the sci-fi cheat.

Alan McCullough:
“Too much interference.” That’s it, like the old Star Trek radio transporters would work. But it became a problem, and this episode brought it into stark focus, the whole thing where they’re literally about to get shot, they get beamed up, and they go through, and all the squibs pop the wood where they were just sitting moments– I think we laid it on a little too thick in this episode.

David Read:
And as a parting gift to really kick it in its teeth while it’s down, if we haven’t beaten up on it enough: do you remember the DHD being transported away in this episode? Did you notice anything, Alan, when you rewatched this?

Alan McCullough:
I remember the DHD being transported, but I don’t know what you’re speaking of. I don’t remember —

David Read:
Underneath the DHD is some very healthy bent grass.

Alan McCullough:
Was it a sand plan — I don’t remember —

David Read:
They just sat it on the grass, and then they removed the element and no one CG’d in technology or a base —

Alan McCullough:
I see what you mean, as though it had been there for as long as it had been there, for thousands of years.

David Read:
The grass was … They had literally sat the prop on it and then removed the prop, and underneath it was the grass that was there.

Alan McCullough:
That’s great.

David Read:
I remembered that the first time I watched it, and it was like, “OK.”

Alan McCullough:
This is the kind of thing you run into where … I don’t know if at the script stage we had ever contemplated that the DHD was also being taken.

David Read:
I see.

Alan McCullough:
In my mind, they’re stealing the Stargates. That was the pitch. They’re stealing the Stargates. And no one actually considered that the Stargates are kinda useless without the DHD. And then, of course, someone along the way figured that out, and that was solved, but not solved to the point of not just pulling the prop, vanishing the prop on the day.

David Read:
Exactly. I think in the lore of the show — and someone can certainly fact check me in the comments — but my understanding was, we’ve seen in “Nemesis,” for instance, in Season Three, you can dial out, but you’re gonna have a really hard time dialing in if you’ve changed the location of the Stargate and the DHD hasn’t been there to update its coordinates in the network. He would have to be taking ’em if he was planning on using them not just to go through …

Alan McCullough:
To escape the ship …

David Read:
… but to come through.

Alan McCullough:
… which is what they do.

David Read:
That’s true too.

Alan McCullough:
That might’ve been what led to – and again, I don’t remember — the decision to take the DHD as well, is that when we’re in the hold of the ship and the means of escape was using the Stargate and firing it up, “How are we gonna do that?”

David Read:
Unless you’re gonna stand there and rotary dial the thing and pray that it had enough juice when it was connected earlier to work.

Alan McCullough:
Exactly.

David Read:
You need it, man.

Alan McCullough:
I remember pitching an absolutely — This is, again, the mark of inexperience – But I pitched an absolutely wild vis effect. They were all stuck in the hold. The Jaffa are closing in. They seal the doors while Daniel’s trying to work, but Baal tries to one-up them by venting the cargo hold. But they get it just dialed in time, and the Stargate basically passes through them as they’re …

David Read:
Oh, because it’s getting pulled out into space.

Alan McCullough:
… as it’s all getting pulled out of the hold. That one will just have to live on in the imaginations because I think they took a look at that and were like, this is an insane … You’re talking about suspending them and having to … It would have been a …

David Read:
Tricky.

Alan McCullough:
… a massive visual effect, definitely.

David Read:
Do you want a fun anecdote regarding Stargate high jinks?

Alan McCullough:
Sure.

David Read:
So, when the comics were being published around, I guess, Season Seven or Season Eight — there was an officially licensed comic adaptation, and you can go on GateWorld and read all about it. But they were coming to Darren, who runs GateWorld, to run by some ideas, to make sure that they were canonically accurate in terms of how they were constructed. And they wanted to show a sequence of Jack being tortured by a Goa’uld or someone, with a Stargate.

Alan McCullough:
With a Star —

David Read:
Do you know the game Portal?

Alan McCullough:
No.

David Read:
The logo is going through from one to the other, and one to the other, and one to the other, and one to the other. Someone wanted to have two Stargates dial each other and then have them rotating so that Jack would fall through. It would switch over to the top. Jack would fall through. It would switch over to the top. Jack would fall through. And Darren was like, “Unfortunately, you need pretty far apart points in space to figure that out.”

Alan McCullough:
A stable wormhole.

David Read:
But it’s a great idea. But little things like that, I appreciate the mental exercise of trying to figure out how that would work and being like, “No, no, that pushes our idea too far.” But fun things like that. Do you have any memories of Cliff Simon or watching the dailies and seeing this guy work?

Alan McCullough:
I did meet him once. He came to the writing room once, and he was a really sweet guy. The best thing about working with Cliff and the character is he showed up with a smile on his face. He was having so much fun. I think that’s why we all liked writing for the character so much. He came in. He always had … There’s, again, an acting trick of: you show up on set with a secret. Even if it has nothing to do with the scene you’re doing, as an actor, you come up with a secret for your character and you hold that. And then it makes your performance more interesting. And it felt like Baal and Cliff always had a secret. We gave him a secret, of course, in the script, but it just felt like he was always … there was always something going, like he was always one step ahead. Even when we were ahead in the script, he still played it like he was one step ahead. And it was so much fun to watch. RIP, he was such a great guy. I’m sure he could have been a part of the Stargate canon for decades to come. If there was a new show, I’m sure he’d be one of the first people we’d be calling back.

David Read:
I would have hoped. I remember having a conversation with him about Continuum after it had come out, and he was still pushing, “There’s still storylines to tell. Who is the guy underneath? Once Baal is free of this and he and Vala could have some intimate times.” He was still pitching. He loved the character. Do you remember anything about the cost of “Insiders” or the technology having improved over the last few years to be able to pull off more shots, budgeting this episode to pull this thing off? How many Baals were you … I think there are 25 or 30 at the end of the day, if I’m not mistaken, once they capture them all throughout the galaxy?

Alan McCullough:
I’m not sure how many we see together because you have to remember, it’s passes with the camera. The amount of work that Cliff would have had to do in that episode: you’d have to shoot him over here with an interesting look on his face, and then he’s over here, checking some shelves, and then he’s over here. And you have to shoot every single one of those one at a time. So, Cliff would have been on set for hours just shooting the background Baals. And we obviously woulda used stunt doubles or …

David Read:
Stand-ins and …

Alan McCullough:
… stand-ins …

David Read:
… lookalikes.

Alan McCullough:
… lookalikes whenever we could, but a lot of the time, there’s at least a dozen shots, maybe more, maybe 20 shots in that show where we see multiple Cliff Simons on the screen at the same time. And all that woulda been done — practically assembled — in vis effects, but they need source footage.

David Read:
The data.

Alan McCullough:
I think even to this day, that’s how they would do it. I can’t imagine … I don’t think the technology of moving people around has … Maybe it has. I don’t know. Maybe vis effects technology has advanced to the point where you can just change a person’s position and put them in and animate them in a new position. But back then, that was how that would have been done. Every single frame of that would have been —

David Read:
Every one of them.

Alan McCullough:
The interesting thing is, you could watch a different guy, you watch the episode multiple times and focus in on a different Baal in the background, and they’ve all got something in their minds. They’re all thinking about something, and you could almost see which ones are thinking about how they can deceive or how they can take advantage of the situation. Cliff … it just was a joy to work with him, for sure.

David Read:
Absolutely. I’m sure each of them have their own agendas, but the base agenda for all of us, “OK, how can I get rid of all these other a-holes? How can I get this thing taken out of …”

Alan McCullough:
Exactly.

David Read:
“… the back of my neck?” Or wherever it was. I remember Cliff relating a story to me. He’s not here so I’m taking this opportunity to add these to the Oral History for this episode. He relayed a story to me about working with Peter Woeste for this episode, and there’s a tighter shot where there’s two of them, and one comes around the corner — I think he’s holding a gun — and he puts his arm up on him and holds it into place, Baal leaning his arm on the shoulder of the other Baal. This was a Cliff idea. Cliff said to Peter Woeste, “I wanna do this. I wanna touch myself.” His words. Historically accurate. Peter Woeste, I’m sure, was like, “What? You wanna what?” He’s like, “Put my arm up on myself,” and Peter was like, “I’m gonna give you one take at this, and you better get it right. You can’t … just put it there and don’t move it. Because you can’t … If we’re gonna do the other person, you have to stay as still as possible. You can’t pair you two with the same …”

Alan McCullough:
No, and it’s gotta —

David Read:
“… motion of impacting it.” It’s in the final product, and it works. Isn’t that cool?

Alan McCullough:
Yeah, that’s great. There’s probably a certain amount they could adjust it …

David Read:
Of play.

Alan McCullough:
… or stabilize it a little bit, but you’re right. If he misses, if he’s too high … He woulda had to get the initial position dead right.

David Read:
Can I chew on you for a minute, Alan?

Alan McCullough:
Of course. I don’t know what that means, but that sounds like a Cliff Simon malapropism, but I’ll —

David Read:
When Carter is captured, her base codes would’ve immediately been invalidated. At least, I think.

Alan McCullough:
Yeah, that’s prob[ably] —

David Read:
So, you could hang a lantern on that, as Jonathan Glassner and some of the others would have said, by having one of the characters say, “Why weren’t her codes locked out? Well, someone screwed up.” My dad saw that, and he commented on that. My dad’s former military, so he’s thinking through all this stuff.

Alan McCullough:
Hilarious.

David Read:
And I was like, “Oh, OK.” But at the end of the day, he’s also the man who said, “You gotta buy it.”

Alan McCullough:
No, you’re right, that makes perfect sense.

David Read:
But the stuff that you guys managed to pull off visual effects-wise, cost-wise, character-wise, every single one of these episodes, you couldn’t have pulled that off five, six, seven years earlier. And it was because everyone came together and was able to do the work that was needed to pull it off that you guys were able to say, “Yeah, we’re gonna go there. We’re gonna have 30 Baals. And we’re gonna have them all in one shot when they’re beamed away. And Cliff Simon’s just gonna have to bear with it. He’s gonna be standing a while. 14 … 15 … 16.”

Alan McCullough:
Now your iPhone can basically do that, but back then, no. I did love … the one other thing — sorry, and this is …

David Read:
No, please.

Alan McCullough:
… backtracking a little, but … About those three episodes, because I sort of think of them as a threesome, but the first two, I guess — Does the Lucian Alliance feature in “Stronghold,” or no? Maybe just in “Off the Grid.”

David Read:
Right. They’re not in that one.

Alan McCullough:
What I loved about that season, 9 and 10, is that … What was so fun about writing for that is that there was the Ori storyline, particularly when I arrived. I’m brand new, the Ori storyline’s pretty much mapped out. They’ve got the Ori, they’ve created them, they’ve got an arc for what the Ori are gonna do and where they’re gonna end up in Episode 20. So, what’s left in terms of pitching is, what else is out there? And I think Joe and Paul had created the Lucian Alliance in an earlier episode. What I really loved doing is … I think that’s why I ended up with so many Baal episodes, because you’re left looking at, what else is there? Who else is still out there? When there’s a power vacuum as it was… When the Goa’uld are defeated and there’s a power vacuum, and then there’s the Ori and we’re left fighting the Ori, but there’s all of these other people out there.

David Read:
Nature hates a vacuum, and these worlds —

Alan McCullough:
What’s going to happen? That was what fascinated me, and the political machinations on the Jaffa High Council, which I think — and I would now admit in hindsight — might not have been the most exciting TV in the world, to watch a High Council meeting that the Jaffa had on Dakara, but —

David Read:
What else you gonna do? This society is being born free for the first time in thousands of years. It’s a story that had to be told because the audience would not have been accepting of it just being, “This thing is happening. Teal’c says it’s going on.”

Alan McCullough:
Happening off screen.

David Read:
No, we would’ve wanted to see something.

Alan McCullough:
By the way, I think that was the only time I got to work with Tony Amendola, who is just unbelievable. Memorable from before I even knew who he was, when I was just watching the episodes to get familiarized with the show. You’re just like, “Who’s that guy? That guy’s character’s amazing …”

David Read:
Magnetic.

Alan McCullough:
“… I like that guy’s voice.” Just the chance to work with Tony Amendola, I think, or have that on my resume, was great.

David Read:
Absolutely. Were there any legacy characters who had died or weren’t available from any of the shows that you were like, “You know what? I really wish I could have written for them,” but they’re dead, or the character’s dead. And was there ever a time where it was like, “You know what? I just wish I would’ve had a really good shot at Jack?”

Alan McCullough:
Yeah.

David Read:
“I could have put some words in Rick’s mouth, and he could have made a meal out of them by modifying something here or there and doing his Jack-isms.” Was there anyone?

Alan McCullough:
Definitely, Jack O’Neill comes to mind because, obviously, when I joined, he was no longer with the show. He did come back for the 200th episode. I’m trying to remember if I actually … Because we split that episode up, I only wrote four or five scenes for that episode, and I don’t quite remember if he was in any of them. I’m trying to remember if I actually was able to write for him, but Jack O’Neill obviously comes to mind as somebody that had been wrapped by the time I came on board. I’m trying to think if there’s anybody else that fits that bill.

David Read:
While you’re chewing on that, do you recall the scenes from “200” that you did write that didn’t include Jack?

Alan McCullough:
I know that I wrote the Teal’c as Shaft parody.

David Read:
With Isaac Hayes’ voiceover.

Alan McCullough:
I’m trying to remember what led up to that, though. I wrote some additional scenes leading up to that and then the parody was capping that off. But I don’t remember what they were. I’d have to do some research.

David Read:
No, that’s fair. I would love to see a copy of the script for “200” if anyone, Alan, is willing to … I wanna have a look at it. It’s just such an iconic episode, and it was one of those, I remember Brad saying, “People are going to love it, or they are going to hate it.” And I remember watching it saying, “What’s not to love about this? This is so cool.” Every 10 seconds there’s an inside joke, and we’re doing Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at the TV.

Alan McCullough:
I remember the “Previously on” with the Furlings. That was the big fake-out.

David Read:
“Well, that never happened.” I had an interesting conversation with Rob earlier this year, and he said, as far as he is concerned, the table read is canon. But the vignettes are not. Whereas I was going to say the whole thing isn’t because, at the end, “I don’t have the right outfit!” and Walter comes around the corner and immediately transforms. I thought that was the giveaway of saying, “OK, this whole thing is fabricated.” But as far as Rob is concerned, the table reads are canon. It’s not what I expected. Let’s go into “The Road Not Taken.” This episode is pretty intense. I’m wanting to know, and I said something similar to Joe, but I wanna couch it in this, because I came away with this idea from the show being presented, “The Road Not Taken,” that, were the Stargate program to be revealed to the Earth in real life, if there was something going on, it would really come down more like what we see here, where there was basically bedlam. It would take a while for everyone to pick up the pieces, but there would be a number of casualties. Or did you see this as, “Let’s tell one where it just hit the fan? No, that wouldn’t be like it for us …” I asked Joe Mallozzi a similar question: “Were you telegraphing to us that, were this really to take place, that this might be how it would go down?” And he took umbrage with my use of the word telegraphing, but I’m curious as to your take on this before we get into the events of the episode.

Alan McCullough:
I definitely think that was — First of all, I think that’s probably what would happen if you told the public about it.

David Read:
An emergency situation.

Alan McCullough:
I don’t believe that what they did in that alternate reality or alternate universe is what would happen. I think the high-level people would know, but I think it would be sort of universally agreed worldwide that we cannot let the public in on this. But if it slipped out and there was no way to prevent it from getting out …

David Read:
Here they come.

Alan McCullough:
… if someone had somehow got ahold of the footage of the dog fight over Antarctica or whatever else was the trigger point. I’m not sure what the trigger point was in that reality. I think societal collapse is probably what would happen if the existence of this technology was revealed to the world and it had been kept secret for dozens of years or however long it had been kept secret. I think we might have undersold it, to be perfectly honest.

David Read:
In some cases, at least temporarily, at least for a few weeks or months. Then people would’ve gotten to shake it off and be like, “OK, now we know what we’re …” I think in this circumstance the Ori were coming and satellites …

Alan McCullough:
That’s right.

David Read:
… were picking them up, and instead of going, “Oh my God, we have no plan,” they were like, “OK, we actually have this program. There is a plan. The cat is out of the friggin’ bag.” I love this episode on a number of layers, particularly for Beau Bridges’ performance as President Landry. You get to take this father/grandfather figure that has endeared us to him — with the basketball hoop in his office, and he’s grumpy, and he’s grouchy, but really he’s a teddy bear on the inside in many ways like Don was — and turn him into someone who has been forced into a situation and has now found peace being that way. That’s scary stuff.

Alan McCullough:
And the funny thing, a little bit of trivia about this episode: it wasn’t originally written for Hank Landry. We wrote it to be the — I can’t remember the actor’s name — but the president that’s appeared in Stargate before.

David Read:
William Devane.

Alan McCullough:
William Devane. The script was written for William Devane and when —

David Read:
He was probably busy shooting a Colonial Penn commercial.

Alan McCullough:
Something went wrong. We knew it was supposed to happen and there was some miscommunication between producers and casting or whoever was supposed to reach out to find out his availability, and it turns out he was not available to shoot the episode. This is, again, my second year on the job. And they come in, they’re like, “Oh, William Devane’s not available,” and my face just … all the blood drained … “What the hell are we gonna do?” And then I think Rob was the one who came up with the idea to make it Landry and …

David Read:
Works for me.

Alan McCullough:
… oh my God, it was an incredible save. It was such a rich moment, the reveal. I was watching it the other day, and I think there’s two reveals that happen before that would have been better if we’d seen them a little bit later. One is Hammond: before we reveal that Hammond is in charge, we cut to Hammond in the control room, and then he goes to see Carter and I, in retrospect, wish we had delayed his reveal until we see it through Carter’s eyes. And then I think we did the Landry one a little better, maybe, where we don’t actually reveal that he’s the president until that scene, until the actual, “Oh, I’m the president,” or something.

David Read:
Exactly.

Alan McCullough:
A little bit better. “Oh, it hasn’t been my office for three years,” or however long, and then we walk in and it’s Hank Landry.

David Read:
And his office is aboard Prometheus, which wasn’t destroyed in this time. The other thing that I really loved was having Kavan as a member of SG-1. That was a great nod, and that he and Sam had grown closer. Proximity is so much of the human equation. If something happened to Mitchell or O’Neill, and Lorne was brought into that situation … I don’t think they were romantic, really, but they were definitely close friends, just like Sam and Daniel were and Sam and Teal’c were. And I love that little nod when you also brought in McKay too. Because the Atlantis expedition hadn’t expedited, and they were all there, so it was just, “Let’s pick this one, let’s pick this one, plug ’em in.”

Alan McCullough:
And I think that we may not have had Michael Shanks for this episode at all, which is why he’s not there.

David Read:
Sam was being born.

Alan McCullough:
That’s right. So, we weren’t gonna show him in the alternate reality, but the beauty of being able to — One of my earliest pitches to Rob was, “Can we put Mitchell in a wheelchair?” Can I actually … if we, in the alternate reality … and I obvi[ously] … I wanted him with the big, long hair and the whatever, and he wanted to smoke, and that was a, “We’re not sure if we’re gonna let that go,” but then they let it go. So, he lights up a cigarette in that state ’cause they figured, “OK, well, he’s in an alternate reality. He’s not the Mitchell we know. We don’t want our hero smoking but we’re prepared to let this Mitchell …”

David Read:
That’s right.

Alan McCullough:
“… smoke.”

David Read:
Lieutenant Dan all the way.

Alan McCullough:
But we got to be able to put him in a wheelchair and have him smoke and things like that, see him as a completely different character, and I think it was a rare treat. And then McKay, bringing in McKay obviously was —

David Read:
“Oh my god, you’re a lesbian.” “McKay!” The things that he says in some of these episodes … that you could not get away with publishing now.

Alan McCullough:
I know. Some of those lines didn’t necessarily age that well. But a big shout out to … I think it was Paul who did a big rewrite on this episode because, when we were breaking it, we were going for … I don’t think we’d really figured out what the theme of the episode was. What was the episode supposed to say? At the time — ’cause when I wrote it, I did two drafts — and we were still hung up on the celebrity aspect, of Carter becoming a celebrity and being uncomfortable with it. And what is the price of celebrity? What does that do to a person? In fact, the working title of the episode was “Celebrity” for a little while. I wrote a scene where she appeared on a late-night talk show, but something wasn’t quite working, and then Paul took it away for a weekend and really focused it in on the dangers. Took what was happening in that alternate reality and made it much, much worse. I had written scenes, I think that scene about them bombing the Irish village.

David Read:
With the F-302s.

Alan McCullough:
That was in my draft, but there were little nuggets here and there, and I think Paul was able to — It’s all about levers. He beefed up the things, he pushed some levers up and some down and made that story resonate so much more. And the other thing I like about that episode from a fan standpoint is the defeat of the Ori …

David Read:
Hey, kids.

Alan McCullough:
… it’s Act Two! In any other episode, that would have been the entire episode, that would be in Act Five and rushing to get the grid, transfer the power from the grid to the —

David Read:
But that’s not where the story is for this one.

Alan McCullough:
That’s right.

David Read:
And that’s an interesting turning expectations on their ear.

Alan McCullough:
I like that episode. There were a lot of little … And it was fun to … I just began to imagine, “Yeah, of course the Prometheus would be Air Force One. Why would you use a stupid jet when you had a ship in orbit?” And little things like that that you were able to play around with, with what it would be like. But really, hats off to — I think it was Paul, and apologies if it wasn’t — but I think Paul did the final rewrite of that, and encapsulated, really tightened it up, and made it the episode that it was.

David Read:
And Amanda was solid.

Alan McCullough:
Absolutely.

David Read:
Many Carter lines stick in my head, but two of them are from this episode that I’ve never forgotten, and one of them is, “I will not help you subvert democracy.” I always think about that, especially when I see people subverting democracy, but then when it goes the other way, they complain about it. And the other one is in response to Hammond’s, “The threat is still out there,” she says, “That’s the problem. It always will be.” Can you take credit for either of those?

Alan McCullough:
I could check, but I don’t remember. Better not to.

David Read:
No, it’s fair. Better to play it safe. And Kendall Cross playing a neutered, gun-shy Julia Donovan, where before she was like, “Go, let’s get the story, let’s get the story.” And from this world, she was like, “You’re asking me to do what on air? I’m not gonna do that.” She and Carter have literally switched positions from a similar scene that they had with Thor just two years before in terms of the desire to get information out. Whose boot is on whose face at this point? There’s a lot of great stuff in this episode, and a lot of meta stuff going on in terms of making pieces move around in terms of the franchise. There was a chance to bring back a lot of different folks, and I really admire this episode for its guts to say, “Yeah, we’re gonna go there. This is Season 10.” To quote Christopher Judge, “We’re in bonus territory now. Let’s just do it.” It’s a good one.

Alan McCullough:
I got the rare privilege of having Beau Bridges come to my office to discuss his scenes. He wanted to tweak a couple of the lines in the conversation that he has with Hammond, I think, where they’re discussing what to do with Carter and all that, and he had some ideas for … I don’t remember exactly which scene it was, or exactly which ideas. But I did recognize one of the lines that he had added when I watched it through the second time. I couldn’t even quote it, though. But it was a rare privilege. I’m, again, fairly new to the industry, standing opposite Beau Bridges and having him discuss with me, “Can we make these changes?” Asking my permission to make these changes; it’s like, “My God.”

David Read:
Beau Bridges, Lou Gossett, they were at points in the show, or in their careers, where they had — I know in one instance — they had family who loved the show. And they were ready to do something. They were at the point in their life where it’s like, “I’m gonna do something for my family. Maybe I’ll bend my rate here.” It’s the stuff that you got away with in this franchise with some of these performers, man oh man, it’s unreal.

Alan McCullough:
Bananas. I know.

David Read:
That’s right.

Alan McCullough:
Absolutely bananas.

David Read:
We’ve been going for an hour, Alan. How much more can you realistically give me?

Alan McCullough:
About 15 minutes, I think. I’ve got a —

David Read:
OK, I’ll take 10 from you.

Alan McCullough:
OK, you bet.

David Read:
And I’ll have you back later this season. Let’s go to fan comments. I’m sorry I opened up with a Wraith Dart and we didn’t even get to Atlantis, so that’s just life for me. But next time we’ll do Atlantis and I’ll do an SG-1 opening. Fan questions. So, Lockwatcher: “You wrote for SG-1, Atlantis, Universe. Was there a distinct difference in any respect in writing for the three shows? Sets, production, talent, or even money? Or was it just, ‘I’m going to work and I’m writing and this is the block of characters that I’m using?’”

Alan McCullough:
It’s funny. I didn’t notice the difference between SG-1 and Atlantis while I was there. I think now that I go back and watch those episodes again, it does feel a little different. By the time I got there, the SG-1 canon was so full, it felt like you had to be a little more judicious in what your stories were about. It couldn’t be any old story. You had to really make sure it hadn’t been done before. You had to make sure it wasn’t going against the canon in some way. I think breaking the episodes for SG-1 always felt a little more — I don’t wanna say difficult — but it did feel like the stories were maybe more meaty or more — what’s the word? I’m blanking on the word. Whereas Atlantis was a little bit more Wild West. You could find brand new things and you could pitch a story that had been done on SG-1, but it’s different enough because it’s a new galaxy, a new group of people, and I’m not saying we copied each other, but I am saying you would inadvertently pitch a story and somebody’d say, “Well, that sounds a lot like this.” And then you’d say, “OK. But what if it were this instead?”

David Read:
“Let’s pivot.”

Alan McCullough:
You pivot, and you’d end up with a brand new story. Because it felt more brand new, it felt more like Wild West, for lack of a better word. And the dynamic on Atlantis between Sheppard and McKay, I don’t know if we had a character that was a McKay on the SG-1 team.

David Read:
McKay … But in terms of the teammates, no.

Alan McCullough:
In the team. Exactly. So, I think writing for … You always had to take into account when you’re writing an Atlantis scene Teyla and McKay, but particularly McKay, because there is no real match for McKay on the SG-1 team. Teal’c and Teyla, OK, they’re both aliens with different points of view, and they speak more somberly, and Sheppard and Mitchell and, I don’t know, Daniel. I guess Daniel was sort of the closest analog to McKay. But they’re so very different.

David Read:
One holds a mirror up to remind us what the ethical perspective is, and the other one heavily moves the plot forward. Not that Daniel didn’t, but that’s kind of his function. And I’m waiting for ChatGPT and some of these … They may be there now to be advanced enough to ingest the entire body of transcripts for Stargate Atlantis, which is not gigs, but several megabytes in size. It’s pretty big. And my intent is — and I haven’t done this yet — to feed it the transcripts of Atlantis, and I’m gonna ask it, “OK, give me the percentage of the dialogue that is McKay.” And I will bet it’s north of 40%.

Alan McCullough:
Absolutely. And then, the third part of the question was “Justice.” And I have to say, I didn’t … My time on “Justice” was, I assisted in the room on the development of the series but then, once my contract was over on Atlantis at that time, I was not hired on. Or put it this way, we parted ways. They offered me a consulting position, and I didn’t take it.

David Read:
You were with Sanctuary, right?

Alan McCullough:
I moved over to Sanctuary.

David Read:
With Damian.

Alan McCullough:
Yup, With Damian, which was a whole other … that was a lot of fun. So, “Justice,” what I didn’t know … I wrote the episode, “Justice,” but when I wrote it, it was originally slated as to be the ninth episode of the season. And during my absence, I think they realized — as is often the case with a serialized show — “We can’t do that until we’ve done this, and then we can’t do that until we’ve done this.” And it got pushed down the road and it became the season finale. I mean, “Justice” is a completely different show tonally. And I think, had I stayed with the show, I would have had more to say about how it was written and why that was different. In the days that I wrote my drafts of “Justice,” I was writing it like an SG-1 episode. And I think that by the time they got further down the road and were shooting it, and it was shot with handheld and dark, and they saw what they had and designed a whole new look and feel for it. As a result, I think the script that I wrote doesn’t bear a great deal of resemblance to what actually appeared on the show because it had changed so much. The elements that were in my show were the death, obviously, the trial, leaving Rush on the planet was part of —

David Read:
You created that?

Alan McCullough:
Well, that was part of …

David Read:
That was in yours —

Alan McCullough:
… the assignment. I can’t say I created that. But that was the pitch on the table, and those elements did appear in my draft. But the idea of the Ancient chair, that wasn’t a thing. I think, in mine, Rush was working on trying to restore an oxygen tank or a conduit between an oxygen tank that was outside the safe zone. The scientist was badly burned in mine. They sent scientists over to try to repair the conduit, and Young was concerned about radioactivity and, as it turns out, Young was right, and the scientist was badly burned. But honestly, in my draft, we were more focused on the trial. And that took up a much greater part of the storyline. They actually did come to a verdict. They didn’t suspend the trial as they did in the … They came to a verdict. They found Young guilty. And they discussed punishment. Two-thirds of the crew had voted for him to be convicted of murder, and so he was sent to the brig. And all these things, back when I was writing it, were perfectly logical, but when they viewed it in the context of the other things they were trying to achieve with the episode, a lot of that got lost. The other thing — which I think was a good change — in my draft, we the audience actually saw the footage of Rush taking the gun and disabling the kino.

David Read:
The kino captured it?

Alan McCullough:
The kino captured it, and we saw it. I’m not even sure if it was shot or not, but it didn’t appear in the episode that you kindly sent to me. Thank you, I’d actually never seen it. And then later on the planet, I think Young mentions it, brings it up and says, “You deleted the episode [sic]. You found him, you took the gun. I saw the rest of that footage.” But Young had seen it and we hadn’t, and we didn’t find out until later on the planet. I think it —

David Read:
Was the intent that he had gone through the whole trial knowing the truth?

Alan McCullough:
No, he found out after the fact. I read the script and then I watched the episode. And it’s weird how knowing that fact in advance made the last act less shocking because you’re like, “Well, yeah, he is a danger.” It really maligned Rush to a point where you were less sympathetic to him being left on the planet.

David Read:
The guy’s a snake.

Alan McCullough:
Exactly. It was less dramatic of an act by Young. Anyway, that change, I don’t know what point it was made, but I think it was a good change.

David Read:
I go back and I watch that scene at the end there, and he wakes up in a beautiful night sky. And part of me is like, “What does he do now?” And the other part of me is like, “I can’t say I’m all that sorry for him.” That’s really one of his lowest points. And then getting probed by the fish people. Wow. What a show though.

David Read:
Raj, Marcia, Kathiescall, we basically answered all your questions there. Thank you, guys. Gabby Federer, the last question here: “‘The Road Not Taken,’ was it your intention from the start that the opposite universe’s Carter dies, or had you ever thought to make the other Carter appear in our universe and just not cover her?” And she comes back to our side and they’re like, “Oh yeah, this other Carter, we’ve been hanging out with this whole time. And let me tell you, she can sing.”

Alan McCullough:
That would have been great. I honestly don’t remember if that was considered at all. I know that it sort of defeated what we know of the fictional technology. The bridge is one way, which is what we eventually landed on. It may have been discussed in the room. I actually truly don’t know. Apart from that — I do love that episode but I will say that the circumstance that allowed Carter to be pulled through was hotly debated. It’s so coincidental that at the exact moment … I guess, look, if you’re a subscriber of the multiverse theory that says that yes, there must be a universe out there where, at the exact moment I was testing the out-of-phase device, she was pulling energy from our universe, but it’s just so coincidental. That’s a hard one to fathom. However, as you put it, you get past it.

David Read:
You have to.

Alan McCullough:
And then the rest of the episode is about it.

David Read:
Tom J. Astle wrote a Season One episode of SG-1 called “Cor-ai,” which is my favorite Teal’c episode. And it has a really big moment near the end where the Goa’uld suddenly show up in the nick of time to give the people an excuse to break Teal’c outta jail. And I asked Tom, I said, “Did that feel like a contrivance to you?” And he said, “Yes, it was a contrivance because I contrived it.”

Alan McCullough:
Fair.

David Read:
“OK, moving on.”

Alan McCullough:
Somebody gave me some advice. I don’t know if it was in the Stargate room or later, but I was saying, “I don’t really know … How am I gonna get her to say that?” And then it was like, “Well, ’cause you decide what she says.” And I’m like, “Oh, I guess you’re right.”

David Read:
What’s happening is a part of you in your head has Carter, in this case, shouting at you saying, “I wouldn’t say that.” In some cases when I’m writing, the characters don’t say it aloud to me, but I feel them saying it to me. It’s like they’re pushing back. Then I have to come up with a reason to convince you, to convince myself to get that version of the character to make it meaningful and reasonable to say something.

Alan McCullough:
That’s right. It won’t feel real.

David Read:
The games we play with ourselves.

Alan McCullough:
Which is the goal. We’re tryna make everything feel as real as we can, and as grounded and as authentic as we can.

David Read:
Alan, this has been tremendous.

Alan McCullough:
Thank you.

David Read:
Thank you so much for spending so much time with us. We’re gonna wrap somewhere around September or October. I’ll reach out to you in a few months and see what your situation is and make sure that they’re still putting down food and water for you. We’ll talk a little bit more.

Alan McCullough:
Lovely. Thank you so much.

David Read:
Thank you for everything, sir. I’m gonna wrap up over here.

Alan McCullough:
OK. You bet.

David Read:
Thank you.

Alan McCullough:
All right. Cheers.

David Read:
Alan McCullough, everyone. Producer and writer for Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, and Universe. I meant to have him back far sooner, so I do apologize to him for not getting back with him in a more timely manner, but I’m glad we’ve got him now. I have got a couple, three shows heading for you tomorrow. We’ve got tomorrow John Billingsley and Patrick McKenna, the other guys. They’re gonna be joining us at, I believe, 1 PM Pacific Time. And that’s GateWorld; that’s not Dial the Gate. Let me have a look here real quick. Come on. 11:30 AM Pacific Time. Gillian Barber, who played Dreylock and a Resident, is joining us at 1 PM tomorrow. And then Shane Meier, who played Garan and Neleus, he’s joining us on Monday, May 5th at 3 PM Pacific. My tremendous thanks to my moderating team. I could not pull this off without you guys. Antony, Jeremy, Kevin, Lockwatcher, Marcia, Raj, you guys make the show possible. I really appreciate you. My producers, Antony, Kevin, and Linda. And big thanks to Frederick Marcoux over at ConceptsWeb, who keeps dialthegate.com up and running. We’re cooking with gas with Season Five here, and I’m gonna be slowing down a little bit. I wanted the first few episodes per week to be about four in number. I’m gonna begin to dial them down to around three. I say begin because that’s what my aim is, and if more of the people that I’ve been reaching out to contact me and say, “We’re good,” then that’s gonna go up to four. But if not, it’s gonna go down to three because I don’t wanna give my moderators absolute burnout. Love you guys. ‘Preciate y’all. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate, and I will see you on the other side.