The stunt coordinator for Stargate Atlantis & Stargate Universe, and fight coordinator for SG-1, joins Dial the Gate to share his memories of working on all three versions of the TV franchise!

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Timecodes
00:07 – Opening Credits
00:39 – Welcome and Episode Outline
01:13 – Call to Action
02:14 – Guest Introduction
08:44 – Formative Years
17:30 – Getting involved in Stargate
21:36 – On Stargate Atlantis and Stargate Universe
26:19 – Fight scene of Ronon and Ford in Runner
31:45 – Struggles in the industry
36:49 – Re-inspiring stunts (Arrow)
43:01 – Safety in the industry
52:23 – Most Dangerous Stunt
1:01:36 – Among those who you trained, who were the ones you’re proud of?
1:03:31 – Christopher Judge (SGA 4×17 “Midway”)
1:11:52 – Are there different approaches when training actors/actresses?
1:16:22 – What ended up taking the longest time out of fights you did? (SG-1 10×17 “Talion”)
1:23:02 – Were there certain actors that were more insistent on doing their own stunts?
1:28:16 – Do you ever suggest independent martial arts training for actors?
1:30:08 – How is it working with someone trained in martial arts?
1:33:39 – Is there any type of gag that you cringed on the script?
1:36:49 – Script Change after September 11
1:41:18 – How often do costumes influence the choreography?
1:44:52 – Thank You, James!
1:46:25 – Post-Interview Housekeeping
1:50:01 – End Credits

***

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Welcome everyone to Episode 58 of Dial the Gate. My name is David Read, thanks so much for joining us. Robert Picardo had to reschedule yesterday, so he was going to be joining us exactly one week from his previous scheduled time. That’s going to be this coming Saturday at 2:00 PM Pacific, so that’ll be Saturday, March the 6th. James “Bam Bam” Bamford is gonna be joining us for this episode. He is the stunt coordinator for Stargate Atlantis and the fight coordinator for Stargate SG-1. Before I bring him in, I do want to invite you to share this with your friends, your Stargate friends. If you like Stargate and you wanna see more of this content on YouTube, it would mean a great deal to me if you click the Like button. It really makes a difference with YouTube’s algorithm and will definitely help the show grow its audience. Please also consider sharing this video with a Stargate friend. And if you wanna get notified about future episodes, click the Subscribe icon. Giving the Bell icon a click will notify you the moment a new video drops and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes, this is key if you plan on watching live. Clips from this live stream will be released over the course of the next several days and weeks on both GateWorld.net and eventually Dial the Gate. Before I bring in James, what’s going to happen is I’m going to ask him questions. On YouTube.com/DialtheGate, you’ll have the chat going live with the show, pretty much every show. There you can submit questions to the moderators and they’ll get them over to me to ask James later on in the show. But without further ado, Mr. James Bamford, stunt and fight coordinator for Stargate. Thank you for joining us, sir. Welcome to the show.

James Bamford:
My pleasure. How are you?

David Read:
How the heck are ya?

James Bamford:
Great. How are you?

David Read:
I am well. So, Superman and Lois, you have your directorial debut on that show starting on March the 9th, is that correct?

James Bamford:
In theory.

David Read:
OK.

James Bamford:
It’s a little hard to calculate at the regular rate, as the Pilot and Episode 2 were combined into one massive episode. They aired last week very successfully, and I think this coming Tuesday will be what was considered Episode 3 and my episode is Episode 4, so…

David Read:
So, the episode that you shot was Haywire, is that correct?

James Bamford:
Correct.

David Read:
All right. What can you tell us about this cast and crew? Brand new series, you excited about the run of this show? It’s a different texture for Superman, for sure; putting him in a different situation, home-wise.

James Bamford:
Yeah. It’s something that hasn’t been done as far as exploring that part of his story and being a dad. I think they’re spending a lot more time on him being a human being, more so than being a superhero. I think people can really connect with that. They’re exploring regular issues, anxiety and addiction and all sorts of other things that regular families and people experience.
It’s a very interesting show that way. It stands out from the rest of the DC shows in that regard. There’s superhero elements, of course, but the main focus is the family and what happens within that. Of course, the superhero world does push and pull you in different directions. I think my episode in particular, and I’m sure I’m allowed to speak on this, ’cause it’s vague, but really does focus on the challenges that Superman faces and the family faces, between him being Superman and being a dad and the getting pulled in those two separate directions simultaneously and constantly. Imagine if there was an actual Superman and all the things that go on in the world were going on in the world. He’d be pretty busy.

David Read:
I suspect so.

James Bamford:
Yeah. Imagine if he was a dad, a father, being a father myself and having to go to work. That takes you away from your family and away from your children, it’s a real occurrence that happens to real people. It was very interesting to direct that. It comes at it from a different angle than we’ve had before. The script is very grounded. Actually, grounded is basically the word of the day on that show. The conversations are… They feel real between the characters and the actors are embracing that and they’re doing a great job. When Smallville was on the air, I was watching a lot of that. I kind of got superheroed out with all the Marvel stuff and everything. Most of it’s very well done but, I was like, “I can only take good versus evil for so long.” I get that that is the core theme of all that this is, but this is one that I can really see myself tuning into because it’s deliberately taking a step back and saying, “OK, let’s make a more family-oriented show, not in terms of the viewing audience, but in terms of the subject matter. What happens when the most powerful being on Earth has offspring?” You think that keeping his identity a secret would… Not only was it pretty much at the top of the list before, it’s really at the top of the list now. If anything happens to those kids… And of course, the show is going to explore that. It has to and it will. Yeah, there’s a constant threat, whether it be to his family or himself. Of course, the existence of kryptonite is always a thing.

David Read:
Always.

James Bamford:
Yeah, the different ways. There’s not just kryptonite. There’s other weaknesses out there and when you’re the most powerful being on Earth, there’s many, many people working very hard trying to topple you from that throne.

David Read:
Absolutely.

James Bamford:
As is human nature.

David Read:
Take us back a little bit.

James Bamford:
Way back.

David Read:
Way back, man. One of my intents with this show is to make it a lasting site online, where future generations who are gonna continue to discover Stargate through streaming will have a place to go and discover the people who made it. GateWorld has obviously done that very well. There’s a number of different sites online, like The Companion, that are trying to do that as well. What we’re trying to do here is make a Stargate-focused place where you can learn about the people who made the show and where they came from and what their goals were before they approached the series. Tell me a little bit about where you’re from, what your goals were as a young person and what led you down the path that you’re at now; to the point of being a stunt person and getting involved in Stargate. What were your goals when you were growing up? What did you want to do?

James Bamford:
Wow. Grew up in a small town just outside of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada, called Sidney. The film industry itself didn’t exist. As in many small towns, you have to find different ways to amuse yourself. We spent a lot of time running around in the forest and playing sports and all those sorts of things. Watching TV, going to a drive-in theater, all sorts of things like that. Very early on, I think it was the Six Million Dollar Man, and I’ve probably told this story before, but I asked my dad, “How does he jump that high and how does he run that fast?” and all that sort of thing. My dad explained that he was a stuntman, so I was like, “Oh, OK. That’s what I wanna do. If that makes me the Six Million Dollar Man, then…” I didn’t exactly understand it. When I got older, seven or eight, my uncles took me to my first Bruce Lee movie, which was Enter the Dragon and the world opened up. I was like, “OK, that’s what I’m going to do!” Then I started training in martial arts when I was very young and then continued. Essentially, long story short, eventually different career paths were happening. I was approached, or my karate instructor was approached, by a very busy stuntman back then who attended our karate school when I was a kid. He was looking for martial artists who were six feet tall and, at the time, 170 pounds-ish. My name came up, to be a stunt double, fight martial arts double, for Michael Dudikoff on a TV series called Cobra. My name was brought up and it was asked for me to put some martial arts on a tape, at the time a VHS tape. It was a long time ago. My sensei, my instructor and I, filmed me doing a bunch of different kicks and flying kicks over top of tables and all sorts of tricks. I wonder where that tape is now.

David Read:
I’d like to see it.

James Bamford:
Yeah, me too. I’m curious.

David Read:
“I was flexible.”

James Bamford:
I was. Actually, yeah. I could do the splits back then. So, that happened. We sent the tape over and a couple of days later I got a phone call just saying, “Are you the guy on the tape?” I was like, “Yes.” The stunt coordinator at the time asked me to come to the set and sort of prove that I was the guy on the tape and do a bit of a live audition or demonstration, which was very intelligent of him because really, in stunts you can’t just… Somebody could hand you a piece of paper, a resume and you can’t believe anything. Everybody wants whatever the position is. It’s the kind of position that you can’t take somebody’s word for it.

David Read:
No, they have to prove it.

James Bamford:
Anybody. It’s show me, don’t tell me. The smallest mistake can cost you grievous bodily harm or death. You have to be on top of everything. I went over there and did a bunch of physical stuff. Basically, did some of the stuff I did on the tape and said, “See, this is me.” I was asked immediately, “Do you have a place to stay?” I didn’t live in Vancouver at the time and I said, “Nope.” They said, “Well, you’re working tomorrow” and the very next day I was on set. The stunt coordinator wasn’t a martial artist and wasn’t a fight choreographer, so he said, “Man, I need you to put together a fight. You versus two guys,” or whatever. I was like, “OK.” On set. Back then there wasn’t a lot of rehearsal time, they didn’t budget for it. You had to show up and know what you were doing. Whereas nowadays, as I’ve progressed, and Stargate was one of these shows, I started initiating rehearsal time that was built into the budget. My expectations were a lot higher than a lot of what I was seeing on television at the time and previous to that. I was watching a lot of Hong Kong-based films and other international films that the level of action was 10 times what I was seeing on American television, particularly in the fight aspect of the business. I didn’t understand why there wasn’t a lot of rehearsal going on. I knew it had something to do with money, obviously. But in my mind, safety and quality were more important than the almighty dollar. But, of course, studios didn’t always agree at the time. I worked with a couple. I was a stuntman and then was choreographing fight sequences very early, as I said, the first day on set. Luckily, I’d done a fair amount of live shows with our karate school and through martial arts. Competitively I’d been on stage a fair amount and fought in the ring and put together live fight shows that were choreographed and that sort of thing. It wasn’t a stranger to me, although that was the first time I’d done it on a film set. I was very relaxed and confident, and it seemed like this is the right place. I’m doing the right thing; I’m in the right place. After that, I went on to be a choreographer and was still performing and then a stunt coordinator and a second unit director. Years and years later, here we are and I’ve been essentially retired from stunts for a few years now and became a full-time director. How did I get into the Stargate franchise? I was in and out on set. I was brought in as a stunt double many times on SG-1 through the first few seasons. Bra’tac, doubling Tony, was one of them, because we’re twins. That’s a story. Joe Mallozzi and I were talking about that the other day.
Peter DeLuise just always insisted that I should be Tony’s double because of the staff work and the choreography and all that involved. Bless them. They’d do whatever to my hairline and whatnot and there I was. I had a lot of fun. You can’t tell when you watch the show at all.

David Read:
I think “Allegiance,” particularly. I looked through that and I’m like, “I can’t see it. I know he’s there.” But man, what trickery.

James Bamford:
He had very quick cuts and whatnot, but anyway, that was sort of my introduction. I was there a lot off and on over the years and then eventually I worked on another show. I think it was MGM also, and/or Showtime, or the combination thereof and J. Michael Straczynski was the showrunner again. It was called Jeremiah with Luke Perry, rest in peace, and Malcolm-Jamal Warner. I was doing a lot of sort of post-apocalyptic sort of fight stuff on that show. Some of the Stargate directors had come over, Peter DeLuise being one, Martin Wood being another. They’d come over and worked with me as a fight choreographer and the stunt coordinator. They went back to Brad Wright, and they were discussing Stargate Atlantis before it had started, and they said, “Hey, we gotta get this guy over here.” Brad Wright brought me in for a meeting with John Smith and Brad Wright and that family and they said, “Hey, we really want you to come do this show, we’re starting a new show, we wanna up our level of fight choreography and everybody’s been talking about what you’re doing over there and what your process is and that sort of thing, we wanna bring those elements to our show,” et cetera, et cetera. Timing-wise, it was very, very busy at the time and I think I had just come off of Blade III and Chronicles of Riddick, and it was just a very busy year. I was performing a lot and enjoying that aspect of my career. It was a lot of being a stuntman and being on camera and I was really enjoying myself. I was traveling a lot and I thought, “Eh, do I wanna settle down and do a series like that?” I just said, “I’ll give it a shot and it’ll be fun. I’ll like the people that are involved.” I went over there and started and had a great time and it soon became home, then Stargate Atlantis went five years. On the pilot we had a great time, Rachel was introduced and we did a lot of fight stuff with her. The next season, Jason Momoa was brought in and I started training him and he’s done a couple of things since then. He’s doing very well. The next thing you know, Stargate Universe was coming and I was asked to go over there. At the time, some of the people split off and went to do Sanctuary and I was asked to go over there as well. I chose to stay on Stargate Universe. I was enjoying myself there, we did two seasons and it was done. Interestingly enough, I found Stargate Universe a more grounded, as in Superman & Lois as well, a more grounded show, in the style of shooting and everything else. I think it was based on, what they were looking at originally, was based on the cinematic style of The Shield, which was a show on TV at the time. I think they did six seasons perhaps, Michael Chiklis and whatnot. I really enjoyed how Stargate Universe was put together and then for whatever reason it didn’t continue, which was unfortunate, because it was a really different approach to the franchise, which it had to be. You can’t just keep repeating yourself and do the same thing over and over again. Yes, there was a gate and there was a kawoosh, as there were with the two other… I think Stargate Atlantis was a bit more of a departure, comparatively speaking to SG-1. It had its own thing, and I really enjoyed the crossover bits that we had. We were talking about this with Joe Mallozzi the other day when Ronon and Teal’c were sparring and things like that and I really enjoyed those aspects of it. Having some of the other actors, Michael Shanks or Amanda Tapping, come on the show, that was fun a lot. It was also interesting and fun to develop your own sort of way and get away from the original kind of SG-1 thing.

David Read:
It forces you to grow.

James Bamford:
Yeah, as you should. Because it has the same name, Stargate attached to it, how is it a new show if it’s the same old same old? I tried to bring different elements into Atlantis right out the bat that I saw. I saw what they did action-wise on SG-1, then I was, “OK, what can I do differently?” This is what we did and I had a lot of fun doing it. You got to stretch your creative wings and there was a lot of opportunity to do that. Around Season 8-ish, 8, 9, 10 of SG-1, Brad said, “Hey, can you start doing some of the fight sequences on SG-1 as well? Or can you bring some of the magic that’s over there.” I’m like, “I can’t be everywhere at once.” Everything was produced out of one office but, physically, you can’t. There’s a little bit of juggling to be done. Dan Shea and I would manage that.

David Read:
I remember coming in to Season Two when it was in production, I’m sure I’ve told you this story. We were upstairs in the production offices waiting for one of the writers I’m sure, and you said, “You got a minute? Come in and see this.” You had, using DV tapes and some editing software, assembled a rough cut, I think with your stunt guys. It may have been the actual actors, I’m not entirely sure, of Ford and Ronon’s fight sequence from “Runner.” You had basically assembled the whole thing so that you could show Brad and Rob, “OK, this is what I’d like to do.” All really yourself. Almost like a second unit going out and getting a proof of concept and then taking it back and saying, “This is what I’d like to actually execute on film.” It was one of the coolest things I’d ever seen, A, because you were so wide-eyed about it and excited about it and we had really not seen anything that intense in Stargate yet. That was an intense sequence, and they were willing to go, “OK, let’s make that happen.”

James Bamford:
I felt that to really change the look of the show, or what had been established, there had to be proof of concept, so that was the rehearsal that you watched. At the time I was training Jason Momoa specifically, so you saw him and some of Rainbow’s double. I believe it was Kimani Smith at the time and so that was a rehearsal that you saw. I had shot that with a mini DV camera and then took that footage and dumped it onto my laptop with a FireWire at the time, which took forever back then.

David Read:
I remember FireWire.

James Bamford:
It took forever and ever and ever. What I would do, I edited it on iMovie, very simple, added sound and whatnot and then I just taught myself how to do that. Editing…When I was on Jeremiah, I was doing that, the same thing. That’s when I started, back in late ’90s, ’97 or something like that, as soon as technology was fast enough that I could do it quickly. I was waiting for the technology to keep up with the vision that I had of editing fight rehearsals and/or stunt rehearsals. I started doing that and now it’s common for a stunt team. Back then I was the stunt department, it was me. I would hire stunt doubles on occasion for rehearsal, but day in and day out I was there on my own. I was carrying the pads around, I was washing them down and everything else, looking after the actors and train them. Nowadays, for instance, when I went on to Arrow years later, we had a team there of at least five people. A fight choreographer, a stunt coordinator, a pre-vis person and that was the very early stages of what’s now called pre-vis, or pre-visualization on a film set or on a television show and it just wasn’t done at the time. I don’t know what made me think, “I should be doing this.” So, many times you’ve tried to get your points across to directors and they just end up doing something else. I thought it would be a useful tool to demonstrate the best use of the camera within the action, back on Jeremiah and before that. I brought it onto Stargate Atlantis and the next thing you know, Jason would come to rehearsals. Doesn’t always happen with a lot of actors, but he did all his own fight stuff. The only time we used a stunt double was when we’d smash him into a wall or something; something where there was a larger risk of injury. It’s really surreal looking at that suit behind you.

David Read:
You may have been in this one.

James Bamford:
I was just looking at photos the other day of myself and two other stunt guys wearing those and running around. I remember it wasn’t the most comfortable suit.

David Read:
Man, it was not. I’ve had friends who have since worn it. First of all, they heat up really fast.
Getting in it is a whole chore. You have to have a whole team of people around you guys just to make sure that you’re comfortable enough to pull the work off. ‘Cause you’ve gotta do it. One of the things that you brought up to me once that you really wanted to change and I think had a hand in and I don’t know if it was with Stargate specifically, or if it was a general industry kind of approach was, “Well, you know what? The stunts and the fights, it’s not a tremendous priority for us. We’ll get to it when we can” and would often leave it toward the end of the shoot, which is not safe.

James Bamford:
End of the day, when you’re running out of time, when there’s no time, “Oh, you have 15 minutes to get a high fall, which is 80 feet,” or whatever. “Oh, well, we didn’t get it.” I said this to Joe the other day as well, you know, the stunt, the fight, the car chase, whatever it is, it’s in the script. It’s part of the story. Why is it in the script? You can tell the difference on any given television show or film. You can tell the difference when they made the decision, “OK, well, and then they fight,” instead of, “The story continues and it becomes a fight.” There’s a story told within a fight sequence, or within a driving sequence, or whatever the action sequence is. There’s a beginning, middle and end of the story.

David Read:
It’s just as relevant.

James Bamford:
Unless they just wrote it, unless it appeared in the script for eye candy’s sake. “Well, you know, we really need a fight here because the network wants a fight.” Then there wasn’t much thought put into it and it’s there for optics’ sake and it is what it is. It’s just, “Hey, let’s put something cool so people can go, ‘Ooh, ah,'” and then it’s not part of the story. In that case, then it is what it is. You can tell that when you watch a show, you’re just sort of like, “OK, oh, that was kind of cool. When’s it over? Back to the story.” But the type of action that keeps you engrossed in and connected with the material is it’s a continuation of the story. It’s not just eye candy. It’s fantastic to do cool stuff and have people go, “Oh, how did they do that? Oh, that must have hurt. Oh, ooh, ah, ooh.” All that and take people on that roller coaster ride, but if it’s not telling the story then the stunt people, the directors, people, anybody aren’t doing their job. I wanted to be involved in something that I want to watch myself, as opposed to just clocking in and out of work every day and doing a job and making content. “Oh, here’s some more content.” It is the film business and a lot of people say, “Well, this is the business part of the film business.” OK, great. Yes. You have to be business-minded and take into account budget and time and all the rest of it, but at the same time, nobody’s gonna watch it if it isn’t good so that’ll end very quickly.

David Read:
If you’re checked out, then why do you want your audience to stay on board with that?

James Bamford:
Yeah, you can see that on the screen; people are just going through the motions. The most difficult part of working on a series is re-inspiring yourself. when I say yourself, I mean yourself. There’s nobody else. Everybody says, “Oh, so-and-so inspired me. Martin Scorsese. I was inspired by this, I was inspired by that.” Realistically, you have to inspire yourself. You’re responsible for what’s going on in there. Yes, you see other people doing things and you’re like, “Oh, wow. I wanna try to do what they did but in my own way.” You are the only one responsible for inspiring yourself, or for checking out also. If you’ve checked out and you’re completely bored, that’s also your own responsibility, you have to find a way. On a series, five years, by Season Two, if you’re pulling out all the stops, you’ve probably gone through your whole gamut of your toolbox, visually or choreography wise. At the end of the day, a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. There are many combinations thereof, but everything’s been done.

David Read:
I wanted to know, have you ever gotten into a situation where you were near the end of a series or in these similar circumstances and it’s like, “I’ve done pretty much everything I can do with this. \We haven’t done anything different. I’ve reached the end of my rope on what I can do with these particular characters in these particular situations.” Or have you always been like, “OK, I’ve got this next.” Like, it never runs out? Based on the story.

James Bamford:
The biggest example of that was Arrow, we went eight seasons. We were headed to do 10 and stopped for various reasons. Each year we’d say, “OK, let’s re-inspire and how do we top that?” We would just try to, “OK, we did that already. We’ve done this, we’ve done that. How do we do it better? What’s a different take? We’d constantly try to look for a new way to do things.

David Read:
We’re talking about a show where the fights were critical to that story. It was a much more action-oriented show than even Atlantis was, so keep that in context.

James Bamford:
Much more so. The scope was enormous. The budget was and the audience was larger as well.

David Read:
That’s true.

James Bamford:
A different network and all that sort of thing. The showrunners and the studio really embraced our commitment to that level of action. One of our mantras was that we wanted them to be able to see, even if the director or the studio, the editors, later on cut it, we wanted to be able to show a stunt from A to B in one shot, if you could. If somebody fell off whatever the building was, we wanted to be able to follow that body all the way to the ground and not have to cut out of it because there was an airbag, or what have you. We tried very hard to do that. It gave it a bit more scope than your regular TV show. OK, they cut out of that, you see somebody going, “Ah,” off a building and then you cut, they fall out of frame and then you cut to an overlapped landing or what have you, because people would fall into a pad or an airbag. There’s ways around that with the advent of technology and wires and everything else. It just takes more planning and expertise and everything else. Anybody can just throw in a pad. That’s the way things were being done up to that point. We wanted to bring an element of, add another dimension or some more texture, to the performance and to the expectation. It was discussed quite a bit in seasons one and two of Arrow, “Oh, there’s a stunt Emmy coming up and the studio is very excited.” This was before all the other shows were popping out of the woodwork. This was before Daredevil. Smallville had been gone for quite a while and I think Arrow was responsible for the rebirth of the superhero genre again on television. Look what happened.

David Read:
You guys built an industry in Vancouver with that show.

James Bamford:
You name it now, it’s been The Flash and then Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl and now Batwoman et cetera, et cetera. Then on Doom Patrol and Titans et cetera. All the Marvel shows. Smallville aside, we tried to do something completely different from what they did on that show, which we felt we accomplished. They let us, as a stunt department, the showrunners really did embrace what we wanted to accomplish on the show. We were allowed to have a team instead of having one stunt coordinator. We really worked together; there was about five of us. Whereas, as I said, on Stargate, there was me doing all the breakdowns and running around. I’d have to sort of choreograph things in my head and then sometimes I’d get doubles to play with. On Arrow, we had a team, a full-time team all the time and we were still working on the weekends, it was that busy. We promised a certain level of product and we delivered. At the end of the first and second season of Arrow, we were exhausted. Then it went another season, and another, and we were like, “OK.”

David Read:
Just keep on going.

James Bamford:
What do we do again? The expectations were always, “OK, yeah, we’re gonna try this now. We’re gonna try that,” so again, trying to re-inspire yourself continually is a bigger challenge than actually accomplishing the gags or the stunts themselves.

David Read:
I was interested in what you said earlier about having to prove that you were who you said you were on the tape. I think there were a couple of instances where you’ve got a stunt performer who says that they can do a job and then they get to the situation they’re like, “Oh, I can’t do that. I’m sorry.” You had to pull off your shirt and go into the situations like, “OK, I guess I’m doing it.” The work has to get done.

James Bamford:
Yeah. It’s happened a few times over the years. I’ve seen other people do it as well, the stunt coordinator who’s had to step out from behind the camera and say, “OK, you’re not gonna do it? Then I guess it’s me.” But did I want to do that myself? No. Again, as I said, I’ve seen other coordinators have to do the same thing. Some people get hired, they say, “Yes” on the phone, and then they arrive and now that they’re there, “Well, forget it. What are you saying? I wouldn’t do that,” or what have you, but that’s the job. Alternatively speaking, back in the day, when you’d get that phone call, “Are you available on this day?” or whatever, they didn’t always tell you what they wanted you to do. I would just always say “yes.” If it was something specific pertaining to a specific skill set or what have you, I hope that they would ask. You’d be known for certain skills and you’d assume that’s why they called you specifically. They’d sometimes say, “OK, this is a full-body fire burn.” Sometimes they’d ask you, very rarely I found, actually, but sometimes they’d ask you, “Have you ever done A, B, or C before? X or X, Y, and Z?” If you said no, you’d feel like, “Oh my God. There’s no way they’ll hire me.” So, you have to say yes all the time. There wasn’t a lot of stunt people to choose from back then. Each job, you had to prove yourself again and again, you’re only as good as your last job and so you just sort of embrace it and go for it and there were several times where we were crossing our fingers and, “OK. Well, this is gonna hurt.” Nowadays, a lot more people have been trained and there’s more people available. There’s more specialists and there’s not as much finger crossing that needs to happen. It’s a lot safer and there’s more time for rehearsal. But at the same time, it’s still the film industry and it’s still an industry and a business and time is money and the rest of it, so there isn’t always the time to put into filming it. “OK, you have half an hour to get…” this or that. The worst examples of that you see in the news if somebody gets injured or worse, if somebody dies, which doesn’t happen very often, thank God. It does, it has happened and it should never happen, there’s no excuse for it. I would think in every instance of those things happening, there is, I like to think at least, there’s a stunt coordinator who had said, “Listen, we need more time to do this properly. This is not safe.” Or there’s a stunt coordinator protesting. If there isn’t, then that person isn’t doing their job. I’ve said no a few times in my career to a director or to a producer that was insisting that we do something that I felt was unsafe and just said, “No.” I remember the first time I had to do it and the director was like, “No? What do you mean no? What do you mean no? No you’re not gonna do it or no it’s not safe?” “No, we’re not doing that. What I’ve been provided with personnel-wise and time, it’s just not safe.” I will try to now, as a director, realizing where I came from and whatnot, obviously I want things done and performed to a certain level and whatnot. I’ll ask them, I’ll ask the stunt department, “Is this possible? Can we do this in this allotted time?” People want to make you happy and quite often, people will say yes, but the biggest thing is prep, prep time. You have to show up prepared. There was a little more flying by the seat of your pants back in the day but the stunts have just gotten more and more, there’s been more and more expectation because of what’s going on in feature films. There’s the advent of visual effects and you can scrub out or erase a wire, so there’s bigger and bigger stunts. Whereas before, a lot of times we’d hear, “Oh, well, we can’t do a ratchet,” which is a wire stunt pulling somebody, flying through the air and either crashing or landing on their feet or what have you. Production would say, “Well, we don’t want to do that because of the cost of removing the wire.” Whereas now any kid with a laptop can do that.

David Read:
Take it right out.

James Bamford:
Yeah, it’s a lot easier to do and it’s a lot cheaper so there’s a lot more wire stunts in regular old television where there didn’t used to be, because of the cost. Safety always has to be paramount. It has to be key; it has to be number one. Number two would be skill set and the appearance of making the actor look like he or she is actually performing whatever the skill it is; whether it be martial arts or driving or riding a motorcycle or whatever it is. There’s several other factors that have come up over the last few years that have to be taken into account as well. Of course, as you see in the world, human rights are becoming more and more, not that they haven’t always been there, but within the stunt world, things were a lot different back in the day, as in the rest of the world things were a lot different. People are starting to speak up when they feel uncomfortable and unsafe and the rest of it, which is a good thing. What I would like for everyone is to be able to speak up immediately, instead of feeling like they’re on the spot on set.

David Read:
Or their paycheck is at risk or something like that.

James Bamford:
Exactly. That’s what I felt very, very way back in the day. I felt, like I said, I had to say yes to everything. Otherwise, I wouldn’t get hired again sort of thing. I’m still here so I guess I probably shouldn’t be? I’ve cheated death many times. I’ve been injured many times. As far as my career goes, I wouldn’t trade any of it for the world. I’ve got bilateral hip replacements, and I’ve had so many other injuries and it’s pain, but pain’s temporary.

David Read:
Unless it’s chronic pain.

James Bamford:
Unless it’s chronic pain, which is what I had in my hips, which is why I had to have my hips replaced. Yeah, it was 24-hour-a-day pain. My wife finally convinced me to do the surgery.

David Read:
Well, if it’s gonna alleviate it, absolutely. You gotta take care of yourself.

James Bamford:
Yeah.

David Read:
What is the most dangerous thing to play with in your assessment?

James Bamford:
Play with?

David Read:
In terms of the wheelhouse of things that you provide in terms of content. Is it fire? Is it car crashing, humans crashing into cars? What makes you the most… Apprehensive is not the word I want, but on your toes on set? Where it’s like, “OK, we’re at condition one.”

James Bamford:
All of it.

David Read:
OK. You treat it all the same?

James Bamford:
Yeah. A fight sequence that seems like it’s a couple of punches… Everything’s gone wrong at one time or another in the history of the film industry. Especially to do with action and/or even without action. I’ve been around for 30-plus years or what have you, so I’ve seen a lot of things happen. My experience, what I do now on set is based on what I’ve been exposed to in the past. There’s some great books out there on the subject as well, but just a punch, if it goes wrong, if it’s not aimed it’s not accurate, you can take somebody’s eye out. I know people to this day who have lost their sight in an eye just from an actor not being prepared or not listening or another stunt person or whoever. And/or an overzealous extra that wanted to get in the shot and ran. There’s an explosion gone wrong, there’s all sorts of things that can happen. It’s not always the bigger stunts, the high falls or the car hits, or the fire gags. I used to love getting lit on fire. I thought that was, to me, minimal effort on my part because you’d just be mentally prepared. I was always very somewhat cavalier about it. As long as the safety prep was done, I wasn’t worried about it. Getting a little warm, to me, was “meh.” I’ve gotten burned a couple of times. It was a minimal effort as far as it didn’t make you over-exhausted or anything. You didn’t have to have a terrible amount of skill. You just had to have the willingness to do it, which I did. And it was very minimal effort with a maximum payoff. It looks fantastic, but at the same time, if something goes wrong, it’s gone wrong with me a couple of times. Like I said, I’ve been burned on my face, but no permanent scarring. I’ve been burned here and there, but not as badly as the one that was on my face. You get little things that look or feel like a little bit of peeling, a little sunburn and I’ve seen it go far worse for other people before. But more often than not, I’ve gotten hurt doing much smaller stunts Just regular… nothing’s regular, but doing a fight sequence. The amount of times you have to hit the ground and your body has to hit the cement. There’s a lot of wear and tear on your bones. Getting lit on fire is, if you’ve done your due diligence and the prep’s done, it’s fine. You’ve gotta be mentally prepared. Getting hit by a car; there’s a technique to that. You have to also depend on the person driving and trust them and know that they know what they’re doing because that can go terribly wrong, or the brakes on the car, if something mechanically has gone wrong. A high fall, of course. If the airbag, the traditional form of a high fall, if the airbag hasn’t been inspected and say there’s a perforation in the airbag or some of the stitching is blown or what have you. If you hit that airbag from 80 feet and there’s no air in it…

David Read:
You’re in trouble.

James Bamford:
…you’re dead. More than trouble, you’re gone. I’ve seen things go wrong. Somebody lost their life on a set and nobody was even in the frame. Nobody was on screen. It was all of us standing on the other side of the camera and something went wrong on camera with an explosion and somebody, the stunt coordinator, was killed. I don’t have one. Anything can go wrong with any stunt for any given reason. You have to have your eyes open and be prepared and cross your Ts and dot your Is, always, on everything. Never take safety for granted, ever. No matter how much pressure you’re getting from any direction. Money is… your life is not worth… there’s not a dollar sign on it.

David Read:
Right, exactly.

James Bamford:
I used to feel that there was in my days. I used to say, “Might check out today.” But that was part of what you’re sort of mentally prepared for on set, because, who knows? Something might not go off properly, an explosion or what have you. You might be in a burning building and it’s controlled, but at the same time, it could get out of control or whatever. You don’t know.

David Read:
You have to accept the fact that you’re putting yourself in harm’s way for a product. I’m sure on some level, I would be thinking if I was in this situation, if I’ve agreed to do this, “If something happens to me, make sure we can use it in the final cut. That’s what I’m here for, if it’s a part of the script.”

James Bamford:
You sign the stunt contract and I used to think of that, where myself was involved, as somewhat of a waiver. OK, signing a certain amount and it’s up to me to check out the area, make sure it’s safe. If it’s not safe, speak up, point it out. It’s a terrible, terrible thing when an accident happens that could have been prevented. It’s happened a couple of times over the last few years on different shows that I’m not gonna mention specifically, but people have lost their life. One of them in particular, the reasons that this happened, never should have even entered… safety and skill set should have overtaken the mind of everyone before anything else. That’s what should always be considered first and foremost. When people aren’t considering that because of whatever, doesn’t matter what the reason is, I don’t care what the reason is, nobody should lose their life on a film set. If I hear the circumstances, if it could have been prevented, it’s even more of a travesty. When you hear of all the instances where there were opportunities to…

David Read:
Correct something.

James Bamford:
…complain or change something or whatever needed to be done to change it and it still happened, then there’s no excuse for that nowadays. There’s a lot of pressure and everything else.

David Read:
There’s cameras everywhere. We’ve all got one in our pockets now and social media and everything else. Everyone’s on their tiptoes.

James Bamford:
That’s a whole other issue. Everybody’s brave behind the keyboard.

David Read:
Absolutely.

James Bamford:
That’s just funny.

David Read:
I wanted to ask you, you’ve trained a lot of the actors to pull off a lot of different things over the years of all three shows.

James Bamford:
Yes.

David Read:
Who are some of the ones that you’re most proud of for the work that they’ve done? On Stargate. Not necessarily since… But I mean, you contributed to that success by giving them some training.

James Bamford:
First, the first show, Atlantis, Rachel Luttrel really embraced it. She had never had any training prior to that, martial arts wise and she really jumped in with both feet. She had a dance background, and she just embraced it and she’s a wonderful person anyway, who takes everything very seriously and goes for it. Of course, Jason Momoa, who’s gone on to do many other things since. He’s called me a few times over the years to say thank you sort of for the foundation. When we’ve run into each other at Comic-Con or wherever and he’s with other people from his new stunt team or what have you, his introduction is always very kind, “This is the guy that taught me everything,” that sort of thing, which is really cool and very sweet. Those two were the biggest, they were in most of the action. As far as hand-to-hand combat and what they had to endure? Christopher Judge, who had done some stuff on SG-1, he really, really didn’t know what to expect when we brought him over to Atlantis and we had this sort of, Teal’c versus Ronon.

David Read:
It was on.

James Bamford:
That shtick. The fans are like, “Well, Teal’c’s [mumbles], but Ronon’s, [mumbles]” Joe and I were talking about this the other day and when he was asked, “Well, who would win? Teal’c or Ronon?” I asked Brad Wright that, and everybody, before I had to choreograph this piece, and then the whole thing was back and forth like that, the whole episode. Everybody said “no, as far as the fans are concerned, it’s a tie…

David Read:
It’s a stalemate.

James Bamford:
…no matter what, it’s gotta be a tie.” But when you ask Chris Judge, he says, “Ronon.”

David Read:
He does.

James Bamford:
He says, “He’d kick my ass.” “Did you see the shit that he does on that show? “I said, “OK, well, you’re coming over to the show now, so it has to look like it’s a stalemate so we’re gonna step up your game.” I was really proud of Chris for coming in and he, again, embraced that mentality. He trained hard, he rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed and he did such a great job. The two of them, that fight actually, I just revisited it before I went on with Joe and the boys the other day. I was like, “Oh.” When you look back at some of your work compared to what you do later on, when you have more resources and everything else, I was sort of looking at it thinking I was going to cringe. That fight, by the way, that sparring match, was 100% performed by the actors. Zero stunt doubles.

David Read:
They had it down.

James Bamford:
I rehearsed with them till into the ground. It was like second nature to them. I was really proud of what they accomplished. Particularly, Jason had done several of my fights by then, but Chris had done a little bit at that time. When he came over, he rehearsed with Jason over and over and over. There was a healthy competition which was cool and you need a bit of that. I think Chris had bad knees at the time, football injuries and whatnot, so I had to be mindful of that. It doesn’t look like it when you watch that. “How long have they been going at it?” “Oh, over an hour now.”

David Read:
Carter has to stop it.

James Bamford:
When Amanda shows up. That’s somebody I’m really proud of too. Amanda Tapping is out there directing her heart out. She’s killing it.

David Read:
She’s a force.

James Bamford:
She is, she is. Still one of the sweetest people on the face of this earth, really great person. I ran into her on Batwoman, she was the incoming director. I think she came to set while I was on set doing my episode and she came just to say hi, which was really nice. Had a quick visit, which was cool. She’s doing really well. She’s somebody who really paid attention and really spent a lot of time watching and shadowing and she really wanted to do it. There’s been a lot of, in that instance, there’s a lot more opportunity for people now that wouldn’t have got an opportunity years ago. But because there’s so much more opportunity, some people are just being offered positions and they’re not really prepared for the opportunity.

David Read:
She’s not one of them.

James Bamford:
She is not one of them. She’s very, very prepared and she’s straight out of the gate, no pun intended. She really, really studied her craft, which is what I try to do. The people who shadow me or that I end up mentoring, I find you have to be prepared. Preparation is key. There is no half-assing it. There’s no 50%, it shows. Whether it shows or not on your episode, if you’re directing episodic TV or your movie or whatever, the crew and the cast know. Yes, your episode might turn out fantastic, but because there’s all these other people who have picked up the slack. You don’t wanna be known as that person, you wanna be known as somebody who came in and people leaned on you and you’re doing your job and you’re running the show. Amanda’s one of those people who is at the helm and she should be.

David Read:
Exactly. She agreed to do the show back in September before we started airing in October and we’ve just been pushed back again and again just for scheduling because she’s so busy. Every time it’s been like, “Great. This is good. Good for you. We’ll get you at some point.”

James Bamford:
I don’t know if she’s finished yet. She’s just finishing a producing/director job here in town. As I can attest to, it’s an extremely busy position. Your job is essentially directing your own episodes but also looking over the shoulder of other directors who may be new to the set and basically ensuring that their episode turns out in whatever way, shape, or form you need to accomplish that. It’s a big undertaking; it’s a very full-time job. It’s a little different now with COVID getting in the way.

David Read:
Yeah, it’s just an extra hurdle.

James Bamford:
Things slowed down a bit. Not too much, not as much as I thought it would.

David Read:
Vancouver, you guys are working.

James Bamford:
I look at the numbers daily. I look at this, not that I pay a lot of attention, but I look just to see what the stats are and it’s consistently like 400 or something like that, hovers around there. It’s an interesting study when you look at other cities in the world and other countries and how they’ve handled it as compared to some countries just are like “meh” and they don’t have any safety precautions or anything and they’re fine.

David Read:
It’s like all of us are in our own little Petri dishes and not every one of them is the same, you know? You got a lot of homogeneous cultures; they all go in one direction and then you’ve got others in the United States where we all have our own ideas and everything else. I’ve got some fan questions for you. All right. Teresa wanted to know, “when you’re approaching training, men or women, is there a difference in your approach or is it all the same?”

James Bamford:
You mean whether they’re a man or a woman?

David Read:
In terms of their fighting technique, in terms of what you’re expecting them to deal with?

James Bamford:
Depends on their character. If they’re being trained as a soldier, a soldier is a soldier.

David Read:
OK. That’s a good point.

James Bamford:
You have to be taught survival skills. You have to be taught to perform specific techniques that are functional and that’s it. If you’re a smaller person, you have to be taught how to use your particular body in an optimum fashion so that it’s functional. If you’re a larger person, you have more weight behind your strikes. More force. You can administer those strikes differently. If you’re a smaller person, you have to go to more vital target areas on the human body and that sort of thing. In general, no. The human body has two arms and two legs and a head. When you’re learning, or when you’re teaching martial arts techniques, you’re being taught to utilize those tools and male or female doesn’t really play a part in that unless when it’s as a teacher/student sort of thing. It does when character comes into play, depending on what your character is in the particular sequence, if it’s a comedy, if it’s whatever.

David Read:
Well, McKay, I’m sure even with Hewlett, he was involved in some of those sequences, but his approach is very different. His approach is much more cowardly. He’s a scientist. He’s known for his mind, not for loading bullets into a gun and firing.

James Bamford:
Yeah, it’s all character based that way. If the masculine or feminine energy is part of that, depending on where you’re going to direct this.

David Read:
That’s true. Especially feminine for McKay.

James Bamford:
It’s whatever. Whatever the character, I’ll try and add aspects of the character into their fighting style or whatever they’re performing. It depends on character, depending on what’s expected of that character and what the actor expects out of their character, what they want out of their character. They are that character, they’re portraying that character and that’s a very important aspect, what’s coming from within them. In that regard, it’s not how I approach training, but I will give different examples of women, if I’m dealing with a woman and another woman martial artist or female martial artist or what have you that they may be similar to in body mechanics wise, or they move like or that sort of thing. There’s a certain amount of information that they can sort of grasp hold of.

David Read:
They have a reference.

James Bamford:
They have a reference. Exactly, because everybody moves differently. Again, everybody’s got two arms and two legs and a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick.

David Read:
Jim Kite, “what ended up being the hardest or most complicated fight to compose on Stargate?” What ended up taking the longest time out of all of the ones that you did? For complexity, or just the people who were involved in it, or the schedule?

James Bamford:
You know what? The schedule was always very challenging. We rarely did overtime at all. We did what we did. I was very fortunate to have some very talented actors and stunt people that learned very quickly and I didn’t have to worry that we’d have to do 10 takes of something. There was one fight, and it’s in the back of my mind, that took longer and it was an SG-1 sequence.

David Read:
Was it “Talion” in Season 10?

James Bamford:
Might have been.

David Read:
In the Jaffa Temple. There was a lot of blood in that one man.

James Bamford:
That’s it.

David Read:
That was intense. I didn’t expect the Syfy channel to be cool with that sequence. I was like, “Uh, they’re getting away with a lot in that scene.”

James Bamford:
You’re welcome.

David Read:
You’re impaling a guy with a sword.

James Bamford:
That’s what I wanted to do.

David Read:
Well, you did it.

James Bamford:
I’m always trying to push it. Craig Fairbrass was the…

David Read:
Craig Fairbrass, that’s right.

James Bamford:
OK. That’s the one. Yeah, that was extremely challenging; the amount of rehearsal. I don’t think we had Craig, he was coming from England or somewhere, so it was sort of sight unseen.

David Read:
According to Chris, he didn’t pull punches.

James Bamford:
He’s a big guy.

David Read:
Yes. That’s the one where Christopher actually got… I think he got injured in rehearsal, if I’m not mistaken.

James Bamford:
Yes, he did, by Craig’s stunt double, actually. Now it’s all coming back.

David Read:
The clouds part.

James Bamford:
I’ll always do rehearsals in a speed that I like to call “slow with flow” which is very slow, it’s impossible to get injured. We were rehearsing a fight sequence with the doubles and Chris was learning his portion with the stunt double. I think he got taken out at the knees. I think he was kneeling and there was a strike that occurred when Chris was on his knee. We’d gone over it several times and I had a group of guys working on it and I had to go prep something else. I said, “OK, I’ll be right back. I’m gonna go do…” whatever it was I had to do. I forget what it was. They were very safe and everything was great and wonderful and I walked out of the room. There was somebody else there sort of overseeing for me, keeping an eye on it. I walked out of the room into the next room, I think it was close to the wardrobe department, I believe, and the stages there at Bridge Studios. I could visualize where I was. I walked out of the room and I heard… Literally, I went, “OK, you guys, I’ve gotta go take care of blah, blah, blah. Be right back.” I walked out of the room and I heard, “Ah!” Then I was like, “Come on. There’s no way.” I turned around and I came back and Chris has this big gash on his forehead.

David Read:
Chris says you said, “Well, it’s not that bad,” according to Chris.

James Bamford:
His eyebrow, it wasn’t when I first saw it. It hadn’t opened up but it was a good gash. It was right on the bone so I guess it was a bone-on-bone sort of thing, I don’t know how it happened because logistically, what was happening rehearsal-wise was not…

David Read:
Consistent with it.

James Bamford:
No, at all. I’m like, “How did that happen? What happened?”

David Read:
“You had one job. I left the room for one minute.”

James Bamford:
Oh my god. Chris had to be on camera after that. They did liquid Band-Aid and covered it up and put makeup over it. The show must go on and he’s a tough guy. He played football and been in sports all his life, so he’d been knocked around a bit. He was, “How’s it look?” kind of thing.

David Read:
“Get some pictures.”

James Bamford:
Yeah, it was for that fight. No wonder that fight seemed to me that there was a challenge and it was. Shooting it was a challenge, it was over the place, it was very spread out and I think it was a cat-and-mouse sort of situation. It was one of the last episodes that SG-1 put out and you guys put it over the top, for sure. That was intense. There was a lot put into it. Was it Andy directed it?

David Read:
“Talion?” Let me see here.

James Bamford:
Yeah. I can’t remember. I feel like I recall him being on set.

David Read:
“Talion” was directed by Andy. Very good. Legit. Scififan21, “Um, are there certain actors that are more insistent on doing their own stunts than others?” Is it a trend typically for them to want to do their own? Are there some that are sort of, “You know what? There’s a person for this. Give it to ’em.”

James Bamford:
Yes, yes, and yes. Yeah, there’s certain actors that want to do everything. Stephen Amell was one of those actors. We empowered him a lot on the pilot of Arrow. Jason Momoa was also one of those on Stargate. Just like Tom Cruise, he wants to do it all himself. You can do a certain amount yourself, but there are instances… As we were speaking about previously, on a TV series you have to try and outdo yourself with the level of action. You get to a certain point where you just can’t put the actor in certain circumstances. It’s just not safe. Whether that actor wants to do it or not, there’s certain things we’re not insured for them to do and that’s it. There are certain actors that are like, “Nope, I’m not doing that. That guy over there, that’s his job,” and there’s other actors that are like, “I don’t want a stunt double.” Until they get hurt and then they want a stunt double, of course.

David Read:
Completely legitimately, I’m curious. For those who are like, “No, I’m just not interested at all,” part of me, in the back of my mind, I think my respect for them would diminish a little bit if they were never willing to try at all. You’re, “you don’t even wanna try?” Is it not like that for you at all where it’s like, “Hey, they know what their job is and they’re acknowledging their limitations?”

James Bamford:
Yes. That’s more essentially what it is. Some people are just not athletic. Some people know their limitations. Some people are cast in certain roles that they just shouldn’t be, you know?

David Read:
That’s a very polite way of putting it.

James Bamford:
A lot of the time the studio and/or director or whoever it is, put their acting and dramatic performance ahead of their physicality. They just go, “Oh, you guys will teach him that or her that,” or whoever.

David Read:
“Figure it out. That’s your job,”

James Bamford:
Yeah. Then they get there and there’s just no way. Either they’re not believable physically and you have to do everything with a stunt double, or sure, maybe they’re somewhat athletic and they don’t attend rehearsals, so they don’t progress in the skillset that they need to be trained in, or any number of things. I have a lot of respect for actors who just say, “Hey, I don’t feel that that’s something that is safe. I will take it as far as here and then after that it’s a stunt double” and hey, that’s their job. That’s what stunt people do and as a former stunt performer, I admire that. As a former stunt coordinator, I admire that as well because so often it’s so much easier to throw the stunt double in because they’re ready. They show up ready. It’s safer, it’s all around and there’s no biting your nails. Actors can also get carried away in the reality of it because they have to go there emotionally and whatnot. It’s not their job to be thinking all these things that stunt people are trained to think. Yes, they get used to it if they’re on an action show, but safety isn’t their job per se, it’s the stunt people’s job. They may get carried away in their character and who knows, trip over something or whatever that they weren’t considering because they’re so lost in their character, which is what their job is, is to get into it.

David Read:
They’ve got dialogue and all kinds of other things to deal with. That’s a really fair point.

James Bamford:
I find that, yes, it’s fantastic when you can keep the illusion up that the actor is doing it themselves and they are that character and for the fans and everything else. But the reality of it is there’s a point where safety is first. There’s always a point. That is always number one.

David Read:
Eventually you arrive at that line one way or another.

James Bamford:
Yeah.

David Read:
Shantal Leo, “Do you ever suggest independent martial arts training for actors?”

James Bamford:
Hey, Shantal. Yeah, if that’s their character, then yes, 100%. If an actor is willing to take the time and do that, I would prefer that they do. 100% yes.

David Read:
Rachel was saying, when the Bantos rods and the Filipino art style… What’s the Filipino art style called that she was taught?

James Bamford:
Eskrima.

David Read:
Eskrima. I can never remember the name. I lived in the Philippines for a year; you think that would help. No.

James Bamford:
What?

David Read:
Yeah, I did. That’s a whole other story. I believe she mentioned that once that became a part of who she was, I think by around the episode “Suspicion” where she snapped the sticks in two and then later that evolved into the Bantos rods, that you got her on some kind of a, “OK, so if this is what we’re gonna be doing, then the training regimen that I recommend is in this direction.” Is that correct?

James Bamford:
I met her on the pilot. The first training with that, I came to her trailer and I started going click, click, click, click, click, click with her and said, “See if you can learn this.”

David Read:
“Memorize this form.”

James Bamford:
And she did, bless her soul. She was a natural. When we got into it more and more, I was a busy stunt coordinator; I couldn’t do all the training. I put her with another fellow so that she had some training outside of just myself, so that she had more. Just to keep her sharp, so that when we got into the choreography she was capable of picking it up and jumping right in.

David Read:
Bernd Backhaus, “How is it working with someone trained in martial arts like Sharon Taylor, for example? Does it make things easier because they’re more relatable that way?” Do you lean on their experience or do you have to deprogram them to a certain degree in terms of what you need to do?”

James Bamford:
Yes and no. Rachel, for instance, had a dance background and martial arts is somewhat the opposite of dance. Dance is very open and I said this to her very early and your center of gravity is very high and martial arts is very closed and you’re protecting your body. Your center of gravity is very low. I had to untrain the dance from her, although she learned choreography very fast, which was great that she got that from dance. Not every martial arts school or club trains their students with good habits. Not every teacher is what I would consider a good teacher. Sometimes it’s great, it’s fantastic to have an actor that shows up with martial arts training and you can slip right in and you speak the same language and everything else. But other times, it gets in the way because they’ve been taught a whole bunch of bad habits. They don’t extend their kick and they sort of, “Ah, this is how I do it.” You have to, “OK” They know everything” and that sort of thing. It really depends on the person and who trained them and what their experience is. I do prefer people to have some sort of training previously if they are to perform a fight sequence. It makes it so much easier. Working with Mark Dacascos was always a treat. We were talking the other day, actually. I worked with him on The Crow TV series previous to him coming in and he’s just a treat. He’s a gentleman and a very, very good person, period.

David Read:
Tyre was a badass. He made it so believable.

James Bamford:
‘Cause he can move. Even you put him in there with Jason, who’s twice his size, you see the way he moves and you believe it. Mark was training since he was three years old. His dad was one of Bruce Lee’s training partners and students. Mark came by it honestly. He’s one of those people. There’s been other people throughout the years that are martial artists that have their own way about them. Their timing might be completely off because of where they trained or what have you, and people can get hurt. It doesn’t always translate well to the screen, as it were.

David Read:
I have a couple more and then I’m gonna let you go. Claire wanted to know, is there any type of gag that you see coming on the script and it’s like, “Ooh, I…” you don’t enjoy doing it? Or is anything another new opportunity to learn and experience something new?

James Bamford:
Everything’s a new opportunity. No, there’s nothing that I go, “Ooh, ah, ooh,” at all. The ones that I cringe at are ones that don’t make sense with the script.

David Read:
They’re shoving it in?

James Bamford:
The ones I cringe at, they’re throwing it in there and it’s putting a round peg in a square hole. I cringe when it’s cheesy. I cringe when somebody doesn’t understand strategy or story. Sometimes we’d be the victim with studios. We’d sort of be the victim of whatever the latest violence news story was. There was a shooting, there was whatever going on in the news. That would be reflected in the latest script, depending on the show you’re on. If there was a shooting, Columbine, you name it, you would have a script that there was, say, a gunfight. Next thing you know, something appears in the news. The script comes out the next day and then having a gunfight with no bullets or something like that. It’s like there’s an overreaction. Things like that would happen. “No, you’re only allowed to shoot with pistols and you can’t use automatic rifles because that’s what they used in that…”

David Read:
Ah, so they’re trying to be sensitive to what’s going on right now?

James Bamford:
Correct. But they’ve already written the context and the scenes and then they try to be sensitive, and they take away all the things that actually made sense in the scene because these were mercenaries, soldiers or whatever. They carry a certain AK-47 or whatever’s there and now they’re fighting with a feather duster and a whatever. They’ve done that just as a reaction to what’s in the news and of course, that ebbs and flows with humanity. I understand the reason why, but some of the reactions have been brutally cheesy.

David Read:
Cut down the story because of it.

James Bamford:
They’ve destroyed the story. I remember one of the examples and this is a big one. We were going to shoot a riot sequence on a show and it was pandemonium. People in the streets smashing windows, all sorts of things, looting and that sort of thing on a show. Then, two nights before was 9/11 and that happened. It was on the news and everything and everybody was glued to the TV.

David Read:
The world stopped spinning.

James Bamford:
Or the world here. Things like that have happened in other countries and it was the first time in North America people had really gone, “Whoa.”

David Read:
This can happen here.

James Bamford:
This could happen anywhere and how cocky were we to think that it couldn’t, all this time. There was a big reaction. We literally had to shut down because the planes shut down and the airports were shut down, that sort of thing. We didn’t shoot the sequence right away, but we came back and they took out, they thought that would affect the public and stir the pot because it was a riot. They thought that people would be triggered and maybe that it would trigger rioting or something by having this sequence on a television show. They took it completely out of the script.

David Read:
The whole riot?

James Bamford:
The whole riot, for a moment. Then we shut down the production because they didn’t know what to do ’cause it was part of the story; it was a post-apocalyptic situation and that kinda stuff. Then they thought better of it and they were, “Hold on. We need this. Now our story doesn’t make sense anymore” so they brought it back.

David Read:
Trust the audience to understand the circumstances.

James Bamford:
That’s just the thing. Depending on the studio and depending on who’s working for that studio, sometimes you get notes with the script that make you have to over-explain things to the audience. That’s when you end up with scripts that actors you’ll see are reciting lines in their dialogue that just sound like nobody. They don’t sound like we’re having a regular conversation here. That’s what a script should sound like: we’re talking to each other. They’re listening and talking and having a conversation and there’s some sort of conflict and what have you, which happens in everyday life. The best scripts reflect that. But sometimes you get a script that’s trying to fill it with over-explanation because they think the audience will never understand the subtleties and we have to spoon-feed and quite often it destroys it. It doesn’t get done properly in a lot of instances and you can tell. You can pinpoint that when it happens immediately. As an audience member, you think, “Why did you have to say that?” I could’ve figured that out for myself. I’m actually paying attention to the show.” You can see it happen a lot of the time because people will repeat or regurgitate information in a scene. “Well, there was a time that I blah, blah, blah, blah, da, da, da.” They make fun of it on shows like Family Guy and then they do a little side skit.

David Read:
The cutaways.

James Bamford:
The cutaways, which are hilarious. That device doesn’t need to be used if the script is written well.

David Read:
Last question for ya. Akos wanted to know, “How often do costumes influence the choreography?”

James Bamford:
Akos. Well, they shouldn’t. Costume designers, unfortunately or fortunately, everybody’s got a job to do. All the heads of departments, the costume designer, the makeup designer, the makeup department, the hair department, the stunt department, the paint department, the construction department; everybody has to facilitate this product, which comes from the script. That’s your main directive. Some of the departments have to work together to make this make sense. Not everybody works really closely with the other departments. Some of them overlap quite a bit and the stunt department and the costume department are two of those departments that overlap all the time. One of the most common issues is in the design of a costume, which makes sense for the character, the costume designer will have high heels for a particular character, or boots with high heels. Meanwhile, to the stunt performer, “Well, this is a soldier. What are they doing with high heels? They have to run through gravel and do all this thing; I’ll break my ankle.”

David Read:
Bryce Dallas Howard in Jurassic World.

James Bamford:
Remarkable.

David Read:
The whole movie.

James Bamford:
I have a lot of respect for somebody that can actually run in heels. I’ve tried it and I don’t wanna do it again.

David Read:
What an image, man.

James Bamford:
I’ve seen so many of the stunt women do it. “I’m not gonna ask you to do something that I won’t do myself.” I’ve tried it myself and I’m like, “Fuck this. Let’s fix it because it’s not, to me, it’s not safe. You’ll break your ankles.” The costume can affect it if it’s insisted upon. If the director and the character and everybody has to have that heel, that is essentially dangerous in the terrain or what have you, you can be injured. The costume designer, the stunt coordinator, the fight choreographers, the performers work very closely together to ensure that the person, the superhero, whatever they are, their character can actually do what’s expected of them. If you have a really good costume designer, they will make changes to the original design. This might or may not be surprising, costumes aren’t always designed so that people can even do this.

David Read:
Designed to look good, probably first.

James Bamford:
They look great, but you can’t lift your arms above your head. I’ve worn armor where your arms get about this high and that’s it. Say you have to do a cartwheel, it’s impossible. Look at that guy back there.

David Read:
That’s a heavy suit. James, this has been a pleasure my friend. Thank you so much for coming on to catch up.

James Bamford:
It was great to see you.

David Read:
It’s good to see you. Good memories with this show, you guys did a lot of good work.

James Bamford:
We had a lot of fun. It was a really good family and we should do it again.

David Read:
I think so. Brad’s trying to get something off the ground and that sounds good to me.

James Bamford:
I would do it. I would direct an episode for fun.

David Read:
Big time director now and you’ve earned it. You’ve worked hard to get where you are now and I’m really proud of the person that you’ve become. It’s well earned, sir.

James Bamford:
Thank you.

David Read:
I appreciate your time and I’d love to have you back in the future to talk about more specific stories. We’ve got a long way to go with this show and the sky’s the limit.

James Bamford:
Fantastic. Love to come back.

David Read:
Thanks, man. I really appreciate your time. Best of luck and continued success on the new shows. I’m looking forward to Superman & Lois. I haven’t seen the pilot yet, but that is one that I do intend to watch, so I’m really glad you’re involved.

James Bamford:
It’s very well done. Showrunners, the writing, everything, they’ve really hit it out of the park on this one, so let me know what you think.

David Read:
I will. I’ll keep in touch with you for sure. You take care of yourself, OK, man?

James Bamford:
OK. Thanks, David.

David Read:
I’m gonna wrap up the show.

James Bamford:
You too, buddy.

David Read:
Be well. Bye-bye.

James Bamford:
OK. Take care, man.

David Read:
James Bamford, stunt coordinator on Atlantis and Universe and fight coordinator on SG-1. Thanks so much for tuning in. I appreciate your time and thanks to my team of Sommer, Tracy, Keith, Jeremy, Rhys, my moderating staff. Linda “GateGabber” Furey, and Jennifer Kirby, you guys are fantastic. Is today the end of March? By tomorrow, this will no longer be an option. Get your trivia questions in if you want to own a piece of the Pegasus Dial Home Device. For the month of February, Dial the Gate is partnering with Empire Movie Props to give away this piece of the DHD from the Atlantis episode “Phantoms.” To enter to win, you need to use a desktop or laptop computer to visit dialthegate.com. Scroll down to Submit Trivia Questions. Your trivia may be used in a future episode of Dial the Gate, either for our monthly trivia night, or a special guest to ask me in a round of trivia. We haven’t done that in a while. Please note, the submission form does not currently work for mobile devices. Get these in before March 1st, Eastern Time. If you’re the lucky winner, I’ll be notifying you via your email right after the start of the month to get your address. Big thanks to Empire Movie Props for making the item available to a member of our audience. Dial the Gate is brought to you every week for free and we do appreciate you watching, but if you wanna support the show further, buy yourself some of our themed swag. We’re now offering T-shirts, tank tops, sweatshirts and hoodies for all ages in a variety of sizes and colors at RedBubble. We currently offer four themed designs and hope to add more in the future. The word cloud designs have both a solid-background or transparent-background options, so you have some flexibility between choosing a light or dark color. Do keep that in mind when you’re making your selection. Checkout is fast and easy, you can even use your Amazon or PayPal account. Visit dialthegate.redbubble.com and thanks for your support. Matthew Hall asked, “Question for David about the spacesuit. Is it wearable?” Yes, indeed. I’ve had a couple of friends wear it since acquiring this. James, Bam-Bam, may have been inside of it at one point. It’s one of the three that was designed for, what was it, “First Contact,” Stargate Atlantis Season 5, Episode 10. That’s what we got going on there. Please like, share, and subscribe the show if you enjoy the series and wanna recommend it to a friend. Our Discord link is no longer ours. I’ve given that over to Rhys. I think he’s calling it Point of Origin now. Dial the Gate no longer has an official Discord link. The show is not big enough yet, that was the chief reason for it. I think we jumped the gun a little too early. We haven’t even cracked 10,000 subscribers yet; hopefully in the next couple of months here. But when the show gets older and there are more people watching, we’ll definitely go back and give the Discord site another try. Right now we haven’t reached critical mass yet, so I pulled the trigger on it way too early. Next up we do have Simone Bailey, she’s gonna be joining us pretty quickly here. I need to get out of this and back in so that we can bring Simone in. Thanks again to James Bamford for his time. Great guy and all continued success for Bam-Bam. My name is David Read. Thanks for joining us on Dial the Gate. We’ll see you on the other side.