What’s up with Stargate and Amazon? How did Google’s Stargate AI project turn out? David Read will be discussing these topics and many more with GateWorld’s Darren Sumner and Film and Television marketing veteran, Jenny Stiven. As always, for our LIVE shows, we will take your questions!

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Timecodes
00:00 – Opening Credits
00:48 – Welcome and Episode Outline
03:49 – Welcoming Jenny Stiven and Darren Sumner
09:48 – New Science Fiction, Streaming, and Star Trek
10:52 – The Next Stargate TV Series and MGM Deal
18:07 – Amazon’s Purchase of the MGM Library, and Brad Wright Interviews
25:11 – What is Amazon’s Respect for Stargate, Cost and Quality for Episodes
27:30 – Brad Wright’s Future Involvement and Continuation of the TV Canon
31:52 – Stargate Being Pulled from Streaming Platforms, and Contract Issues
35:30 – Audit of the Catalogue, Location of the Material, and Value of the Deal
40:47 – Reboot VS Continuation, and Legacy Content
44:58 – Original Stargate Movie Push from MGM on Twitter for the Anniversary and Sending Mixed Signals
48:00 – What We Can Expect from Amazon
50:35 – Eaglemoss Stargate Models
53:58 – Campaigns Like 365 Days of Stargate
57:38 – Upcoming Conventions and Merchandise
59:48 – Creative Freedom Under Amazon
1:02:17 – Stargate AI Table Read
1:05:42 – Wyvern Gaming
1:11:45 – Licensing and Merchandising with Amazon
1:18:05 – Richard Dean Anderson on Brad Wright’s Podcast
1:19:58 – Wrapping up with Jenny and Darren
1:22:21 – Post Interview Housekeeping
1:29:11 – End Credits

***

“Stargate” and all related materials are owned by MGM Studios and MGM Television.

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TRANSCRIPT
Find an error? Submit it here.

David Read:
Hello everyone. my name is David Read and welcome to Dial the Gate: State of the Gate. We have a name for our news show now. I don’t know if it’s particularly clever, but it’s what we have to work with. Thank you so much for joining us on this Saturday. I have Jenny Stiven, who is an industry veteran in film and television marketing from Clio Consulting and Kaleidoko. She is on with us in just a moment, as well as a dear friend, Darren Sumner, webmaster and owner of GateWorld.net since 1999, when it was Star Guide. We’re gonna have them coming in in just a moment here. Before I get started, I really wanted to thank Bernd Backhaus for sending me these little lovelies. They are Stargate pins and I believe dragonstormstudios.ca is where you can get these things. They’re really high-quality. This is the standard and this is considered the ascended one with a star pattern in it. They’re extremely cool. Thank you so much, Bernd. These are absolutely a pleasure and I can’t wait to add them to my collection. Thank you so much and thanks to my team for building out my set behind me here. The end credits will have all their information. As well, you may have noticed the SGU Stargate opening up the show. We have completed our trio of Stargates. We’ve got all three of them now and that is thanks to Eagle SG and his website is available in the closing credits of the show as well. Before we get started, if you like Stargate and you wanna see more content like this on YouTube, it would mean a great deal if you click that Like button, right now, do it now. It makes a big difference with the show’s algorithm and YouTube’s algorithms and will definitely help the show grow its audience. Please also consider sharing this video with a Stargate friend and if you wanna get notified about future episodes, click the Subscribe icon. Giving the Bell icon a click will notify you the moment a new video drops and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes. Clips from this live stream will be released over the course of the next several days on both the Dial the Gate and GateWorld.net YouTube channels. As this is a live show, we will be taking your questions now. The moderators are standing by in the YouTube live chat at youtube.com/dialthegate. Ask Jenny, Darren and myself questions about what you would like to know about what we think is happening based on the information we have with the upcoming series, with The Companion AI project, with Richard Dean Anderson joining them, and anything else that might be on your mind, Stargate related. Without further ado, I am privileged to introduce Jenny Stiven and Darren Sumner. Folks, thank you so much for joining me.

Jenny Stiven:
Of course. Are you kidding? I love this.

Darren Sumner:
We’re back for Season Two.

David Read:
I know. I know.

Jenny Stiven:
I know. It’s so much fun and I’m even prepared with my Stargate Command mug.

David Read:
Look at you.

Darren Sumner:
What do I have Stargate?

Jenny Stiven:
I’m a Goa’uld without my caffeine.

David Read:
That actually is an item now in the…

Jenny Stiven:
I saw. I saw. Wow. I love that. I may have to get a T-shirt also. Then I’ll have my cup and the T-shirt.

David Read:
You can get it in any design you want.

Jenny Stiven:
Cool.

David Read:
How are you guys? How are things going in your worlds? Anything you wanna update us on, Jenny?

Jenny Stiven:
I’m great. It’s been nice this year in 2021. I’m viewing it, here we are in November, as my transition year of coming out of COVID and looking to really amp up the projects that I’m working on, of which you were part of a couple of them already. It’s a slow burn, but it’s been fun. We’ve got some sci-fi projects we’re working on. I’ve been able to work with The Companion. So, it’s been really fun. Hopefully it’ll get even more ramped up as we get into 2022.

David Read:
What are you looking forward to the most about some of the trends that you’re seeing in terms of the content that is… How do I wanna phrase this? The way that we’re approaching content now in a post-COVID era and the way that everything seems to be accelerating faster and faster online and being available to people more quickly. Do you think this is a cool thing? Do you think this is gonna be a problem later on? What’s your impression?

Jenny Stiven:
Being where I am and what I do, officially, what my title is, I do fandom development and audience development in digital content and digital marketing, specifically for sci-fi franchises. Everything that’s happening right now, as far as I’m concerned, it’s the Wild West, and I love it. I’m not just saying that, because as I hear myself say that, it sounds like every marketing speak, stupid panel that we’ve been on. But it really is amazing to me that I was at CES in 2019 and they were talking about the tectonic shifts. I know you hear me say that phrase all the time, that were gonna come, that were in the process of happening. COVID hits and in a way, it allowed everything to settle down a little bit and now we’ve hit up again. We’ll talk about it. There are different reactions from different areas of our industry. Some of them have become more risk-averse, which was a gobsmack to me. Some of them are embracing it wholeheartedly. For my business, embracing it wholeheartedly is the only way to go because our fans are gonna be where all of that pushing the edge of technology is, pushing the edge of content. The fans are the ones that challenge us to come up with more creative ways to communicate with them, to interact, to build a relationship. Cool, I’m all over it.

David Read:
Awesome. Darren, there’s been some developments in the Stargate world in terms of what Brad has revealed online. But how are you? How are things going in? We’re almost through 2021.

Darren Sumner:
I’m very well. 2021 was gonna be the year that changed everything I thought, I hoped, after 2020 kind of kicked us all in the teeth. It’s been a good year.

David Read:
You’ve lost Atlantis.

Darren Sumner:
It’s been a great year. It’s okay. I’ll sew it on later. We’ve been going nuts at GateWorld for the first three quarters of the year, just doing content and really focusing especially on video content. Then the fall hit. I had a great end of summer family vacation and the fall hit. I got so busy. If anybody’s wondering where all the GateWorld videos went, I basically had to put the entire site on the shelf for the fall, with the plan to come back. As soon as this term is over, I teach, as soon as the term is over and as soon as we get moved to a new house next month… Big plans for January and I hope that the timing is just right. I hope that for all the reasons that we’re gonna talk about, 2022 is the year when we finally have stuff to talk about. Now in Stargate, we have new licensees, we have new ships.

David Read:
I know. I wanna talk about those. Those are pretty legit looking, I must say.

Jenny Stiven:
Remember, GateWorld gets a bit of a soft launch at San Diego Comic-Con. I wanna make sure that we shout out to everybody that GateWorld is sponsoring both virtual and on-site content with Wyvern Gaming and CCI Gaming at San Diego Comic-Con Special Edition this year, which is November 26th through the 28th. Darren and David were gracious enough to both GateWorld, Dial the Gate, and Wyvern Gaming to post quite a lot of content. If you can’t be there in person, you’re gonna have an enormous amount of content and we’ll talk about that at the end. But in a way, Darren, that’s a great soft launch to get it positioned for next year.

Darren Sumner:
It’s really cool that we’ve got this hybrid concept going on this year, where people who are on the ground at Comic-Con can go to the booth and go to live events and meet the Wyvern guys. Everybody else who’s online, who’s in other parts of the world, is also gonna have this opportunity to connect with other fans and talk on Discord and watch Stargate content that way. I’m super excited about the new year. I’m really busy right now and looking to get out of this year.

David Read:
I think all of us are in one way or another.

Darren Sumner:
Science fiction in general, man, it’s a wild world. With all these new streamers and these $10 million shows.

David Read:
I can’t believe there are now four Star Trek shows on the air simultaneously right now and it’s almost about to be five. It’s like, what?

Darren Sumner:
We watched the Discovery premiere last night.

David Read:
Yep.

Darren Sumner:
Have you seen it yet?

Jenny Stiven:
Yeah.

David Read:
Yeah. It’s good. It’s good.

Jenny Stiven:
I liked it.

Darren Sumner:
All I could think about was 2005 or 2006, being at TGI Fridays with the Federation President. Chelah Horsdal is an old friend of the site.

David Read:
Yes, she absolutely is. Jenny, do you have headphones or something by any chance? We’re getting some reverb on your side.

Jenny Stiven:
No, I don’t because I had to jerry-rig this together.

David Read:
Understood. OK.

Jenny Stiven:
Sorry.

David Read:
No, it’s all good.

Jenny Stiven:
I can try to do it from my phone and see if it gets less reverb. Want me to try?

David Read:
Yeah, let’s give that a shot, as long as you can still hear us.

Jenny Stiven:
All right. Then I have to go away for a minute.

David Read:
OK, understood. You do your thing. Darren, what have you been hearing about the elephant in the room in terms of the next Stargate television series? What’s going on?

Darren Sumner:
The next Stargate, what are they gonna do? What’s new? We’re at this weird sort of place where Amazon announced its intention to acquire MGM back in May and now it’s November and there’s no news. We knew that it was gonna take a while. Jenny has talked us through this in the past. The deal is subject to regulatory approval and we knew it was not gonna be much before early next year. So, I am at the same time really positive and I think it’s inevitable that we’re gonna get some kind of Stargate back. It’s only a matter of time. I think we’re closer now than ever, but at the same time, it just feels like the dark ages. It feels like Stargate is the one franchise that’s sitting out this whole science fiction television renaissance.

David Read:
It does seem to be. Darren, can you mute your video and reconnect it for me? There we go.

Darren Sumner:
How’s that?

David Read:
For audience members, they’re gonna be like, “What just happened?”

Jenny Stiven:
What?

David Read:
‘Cause Darren became Jenny and Jenny became Darren there for a second.

Jenny Stiven:
What is going on? Is that better?

David Read:
Yes, it is, but everyone’s gonna see my behind-the-scenes stuff for a little bit here while I recalibrate.

Jenny Stiven:
Sorry about that.

David Read:
No. It’s all good. Jenny, we were just discussing what we’ve been hearing down the pipe in terms of what’s been going on with the next Stargate Amazon is going to do.

Jenny Stiven:
There’s been so many rumors and there’s been so much going on. What I’d love to do is do a bit of a level set for fans, to go back to what we talked about last summer, or this past summer, is that the deal is taking exactly as long as it’s gonna take. I know everybody hates to hear that. It’s the worst phrase ever. What it means is that there are hoops that everybody has to jump through. While we had hoped, best-case scenario, that it would be done by December, it’s not gonna happen. It’s more likely to be end of first quarter and there’s a couple of really key reasons for that. There were a couple of fans that had tweeted in some questions for me and one of the fans had said, “Look, I really think that a lot of it is the anti-Bezos fervor.” That may be part of it in terms of there’s always, in the entertainment industry, and Amazon is now part of that, a very keen sense of what’s going on in the perception of what they’re doing. I am sure that slowed the roll a little bit. A lot of what’s going on is that there are massive amounts of contracts that are outstanding for MGM and massive amounts of departments and divisions that are going to have to be delineated. Now, the best-case scenario, and this was written up, I think, in Deadline Hollywood, and also there was a great interview with the Broccolis, with Barbara Broccoli and her brother Michael, they sent out a direct plea to Amazon saying, “We would prefer, we would love for MGM to come in as its own shingle, much like Disney didn’t absorb Marvel.” What’s more likely to happen is a Fox Searchlight situation. Fox Searchlight still exists as its own shingle at Disney, but there was a transition, some people have come and gone. It’s its own imprint, but it really is going to be a siloed Oscar winner, that’s what they’re gonna be for Disney. It is unlikely that Disney is going to fully absorb Searchlight. That is probably what is most likely to happen with MGM. The problem is none of us know for sure. We all hear different rumors, we all hear different discussions and I’ve been talking with a lot of friends on both sides of this fence and then with merger and acquisitions friends to ask what their feeling is. They said, “A lot of this is a brand-new world and we don’t know and Amazon is keeping it very close to the chest. MGM is doing the same, for good reason.” Here’s what’s interesting to me, outside of that logistical, is that MGM has not taken its foot off the gas from 18 months ago when Michael De Luca took over for film, when Michael Wright took over for Steve Stark, the creative division. MGM had a little bit of a different setup than some studios. It’s a small studio and it really operates that way. When David and I were working there full-time, they had a board of directors and a CEO and then people in charge of each of their divisions. That’s shifted now and that shifted in 2019. What they’ve really done is they streamlined everything and they have people like Chris Ottinger in charge of distribution and he’s the one that you should be thanking for the MGM Channel in Australia. He pushed for that to go forward. All of these people that are in charge of these divisions are going full-court press because what they’re trying to say is, “Here’s our worth, here’s our value, here’s our quality and this is what we can do for you.” What Michael De Luca has done with Pam, and I’m sorry I’m blanking on her last name, is that they’ve brought in some extraordinary content and they’ve worked really hard to do this content and to get it off the ground. So, there are some things that are coming out in the next couple of weeks that you probably wouldn’t even think were part of MGM. The Channing Tatum movie, Dog, that’s about a traumatized vet that’s working with a dog, it’s very family oriented which is what MGM used to do. So, there’s this great content. Now, separate from that, you’ve got the TV division, which is run by Mark Burnett. A lot of what Amazon has said behind the scenes, but also a lot of what they’ve put in the press, is that they really bought the library, the 4,000-title library.

David Read:
From ’87 forward?

Jenny Stiven:
Yeah. Post-Kerkorian. So, Kirk Kerkorian sold MGM’s library off. It breaks my heart every time I think about it. What was left, which was enormous, is what was able to be kept by MGM and that’s what was sold to Amazon. Amazon, in a recent interview in Deadline, reiterated that that library is their goal. So, that brings me to Stargate. What I find fascinating about all of the rumors and everything else is if we try to level set and boil it down, the deal isn’t complete because it takes a minimum of 10 months to a year. The Fox/Disney deal took two years in its entirety. So, I hate to say it, ’cause this is a really crappy thing to say to fans, but it’s not in trouble, there’s not a problem, but it’s not finished logistically. So, what has to happen is for us to be patient with that, ’cause we’re not gonna hear anything. However, as you’ve seen with Brad Wright’s interviews and with Amazon doing this, Amazon doesn’t release any information unless they’ve thought it through 60 times. This is from four days ago that they reiterated, “This library is everything we want to develop,” their word, “develop what’s in this library.” Brad doing his interview, and people saw my Tweet because now’s the time to push, because if Brad’s going public, then we have even stronger support for Stargate Now-type campaign; for all of these campaigns from fans to have a bit of a shoring up by Brad, or leading. I shouldn’t say shoring up, he’s leading it. I think that there is positive news and positive thought for Stargate as far as Amazon and MGM are concerned.

Darren Sumner:
There’s a lot to unpack there, Jenny. I wanna ask a follow-up question that’s a technical industry question and also something that comes out of my anxiety as someone who reads the trades every day. We’ve known since May that this deal was in progress and MGM keeps announcing things. So, there’s new shows and mostly new movies that I’ve seen. I know that some of the stuff that’s in production right now, like Vikings: Valhalla, that’s an old deal that’s pre-Amazon.

Jenny Stiven:
2017 deal.

Darren Sumner:
Quite a while. MGM is still announcing new projects. “We’re gonna make a new show, we’re gonna make a new movie, this new deal has just been signed.” Obviously, they’re a functioning studio that has to continue their day-to-day operations to continue to make content and put new stuff in the pipeline. Do you know, or can you speculate, as to whether MGM could decide to do something with Stargate and announce it before the deal is closed. Or would Amazon have come along and looked at the library and said, “OK. This, this, this, this, and this are really strategically important to us, so we wanna pause any conversations until we can announce it as an Amazon/MGM thing.”

Jenny Stiven:
It’s a great question. The thing is that I don’t have any personal knowledge of that, so I can only speculate. I can only go based on what I’ve done with Fox when I was in their post-merger, or post-acquisition, and also spending a lot of time looking at what the content is that MGM is developing right now. So, let’s address that first. MGM is pushing a lot, mostly under Michael De Luca, so most of it is film-related. The TV, almost, I think, 90% of it, was deals that were already in place prior, not just to the acquisition, but COVID. So, even though the acquisition came through during COVID, part of the problem is that a lot of these deals were already ready to go, so MGM’s gonna complete those and they’re gonna do it. Amazon will acquire those as part of it, that they’ll be in production, basically. Almost everything that you’re seeing right now that’s been “green lit,” was already green lit in 2019.

David Read:
COVID just slowed it down, so now we’re starting to move back in.

Jenny Stiven:
Exactly. If they had a contract with particular people that “this was gonna happen no matter what,” then they’re gonna honor that. Mark Burnett is very heavily invested in unscripted. When I was talking to them, actually this year, there were three unscripted shows that had already been green lit, because those are easy. You’re gonna see those come up on a regular basis, because that’s something that he could do in his sleep. He doesn’t need to go out and look for new blood to get that done. It’s not something that’s gonna step on Amazon’s toes at all. To answer the second part of your question, which I think is a great one, and to my ever really sad detriment, I’ve been part of three of them. Anytime you have two studios who merge that are this big, this different – and Amazon is different, it’s a streamer, it’s an e-commerce that has created a studio. What everybody forgets is they’ve had their studio for 10 years now. Amazon Studios has been in business long enough to know, in that area, exactly how this works. You’re right, Darren, what they’re gonna do is they’re gonna go and have these discussions with the MGM folks. However, what I don’t know, and this is really key, is depending upon where they are in the logistical process of the acquisition, those conversations can’t even happen. The lawyers won’t let you have them unless you’re at a certain point in your deal. What I don’t know is how far along are they in the deal, or is it possible, because these are new deals, and from the mergers and acquisitions friends that I’ve talked to, they’ve said that some of the paperwork that they’ve seen and how this is being done is completely new territory in mergers and acquisitions. Amazon is obviously a very different footprint from a studio. Even though it operates as a studio, the studio didn’t buy MGM. Amazon proper bought MGM.

David Read:
The store and what controls Audible and the spaceships.

Jenny Stiven:
The publicly traded commerce company bought MGM, not…

David Read:
I lost your audio.

Darren Sumner:
Unmute yourself. Jenny, you’re muted.

David Read:
I think you’re muted.

Jenny Stiven:
OK, that was random. As you can see, my hands were here. I didn’t touch it.

David Read:
Did your headset lose power?

Jenny Stiven:
Nope, still can’t hear me.

David Read:
Isn’t that interesting? No, we can hear you.

Jenny Stiven:
Nope, now I can’t hear you.

David Read:
Testing, one, two.

Jenny Stiven:
All right.

David Read:
Can you hear me now?

Jenny Stiven:
Yep, how’s that?

David Read:
There we go, OK, please continue.

Jenny Stiven:
Sorry about that.

David Read:
Technical difficulties.

Jenny Stiven:
Jerry-rigging everything today. I think that the biggest question we should have is how much of what we’re hearing about Amazon’s respect and want for Stargate. That’s the question I want answered. I hear that they do. I hear rumors that they do. I hear that that’s one of the catalog library that they’re most interested in. Darren, to your point, is that one that they said, “Hey, don’t develop anything because this is something that we wanna do?” I don’t know. I would speculate that if they’ve gotten to that point, yes, if Amazon has gotten to that point in the legal process. Two, I would bet that MGM said, “We would like to develop this with a bigger engine behind us.” One of the biggest tripping points is that you couldn’t develop a Stargate right now in this day and age at a budget that MGM is used to working with, if you really wanna do it right. Speaking of what you guys talked about earlier, how great these sci-fi shows are that are coming out.

David Read:
They’re so insane. They can’t produce something that doesn’t look like movie quality at this point, because everyone’s gonna cry foul.

Jenny Stiven:
I’m sure our audience is aware, but for sci-fi, what’s considered a lean budget would be a million dollars per episode. That’s really undercutting what you could do. So, what you’re trying to look at is, on average, around two million per episode. That means that you’d get good cast members, that you would have a good director, a showrunner, and most of all, that your special effects and your writer’s room was packed. You wanna have a writer’s room like they used to have that had quite a few people to choose from. Again, this is 100% speculation on my part, that based on the conversations we were having in 2018, 2019, that MGM, if they wanted to do a Stargate, would wait till they could have a better budget. Amazon would give them that.

David Read:
Darren, do you have any follow-up to that?

Darren Sumner:
No, I wanna hear what you’re saying.

David Read:
It feels like I wake up every morning on one side of the bed or the other with, “Well, Brad’s doing a lot of press right now. Maybe that’s a good sign that he’ll come aboard for this next step.” Then, the last time I reported on this, I said publicly, “I don’t really have good vibes that Brad is going to be involved, because Amazon is very interested in pushing new talent, more diversity.” What is your speculation at this point, that it’s gonna be, A, a continuation of the Brad Wright canon, and B, involving Brad?

Jenny Stiven:
Are you asking me?

David Read:
Yeah, I’m asking you.

Darren Sumner:
I gotta say, before Jenny gives us the golden answer…

Jenny Stiven:
There’s no golden answer.

Darren Sumner:
I know in my head…

David Read:
In your fron.

Darren Sumner:
…these things take time and there’s reasons why there’s not been any Stargate news since May, other than what Brad’s been doing through The Companion. But my heart tells me, boy, the longer it goes, the more time that passes, the more likely it is that either somebody at Amazon is gonna wanna move on creatively to a reboot, or that, I don’t know, Brad’s gonna get busy. He’s gonna find other work and not be available.

David Read:
I don’t blame him.

Darren Sumner:
He’s been banging this drum since 2019.

David Read:
At a certain point, you gotta fish or cut bait.

Jenny Stiven:
OK, I don’t have a golden answer by any means.

David Read:
No, I’m asking you for your A, your professional opinion based on the vibrations that you have felt, because you’ve been doing this as long as you have, and B, your instincts.

Jenny Stiven:
My instincts are, and I’m so sorry to every fan out there, are 50/50. I hate to say that.

Darren Sumner:
That’s good. I feel good about 50/50 right now.

Jenny Stiven:
I almost swore. I did pretty good. I pulled it back. Everybody’s impressed with me.

David Read:
You did.

Darren Sumner:
I’ve been very pessimistic about this. I started the show by saying I’m really optimistic that something Stargate is coming…

David Read:
We’re gonna get that rating thing for sure.

Darren Sumner:
… but more and more pessimistic that it’s not gonna be Brad’s show.

Jenny Stiven:
I’m not pessimistic. What I am is I’m trying to not be my Pollyanna self, because I’ve been way too disappointed way too many times, personally and professionally, when I follow that path. What I’m trying to do is channel my husband and be very pragmatic right now and say, “OK, here are the good flags, which is Brad’s interested, Brad’s engaged. He is absolutely 100% open to conversations and he’s 100% working on other things and yet, open to this.” Two, that Amazon has obviously made a PR push to say that they are very interested in the catalog and the library and that they, “want to develop shows from that.” OK. Cool. That lays great groundwork, really good groundwork. My only “but” to that is that there are no guarantees in this business. We could get, as David and I did, all the way down to the last minute of a brand-new show, and the plug gets pulled. So, I don’t want to get anybody’s hopes up for one type of show or another. I’m very optimistic that something Stargate is gonna happen. Whether it’s in Brad Wright’s universe or by Brad Wright, I have no clue. None. I am as in the dark as everybody else. Not because I’m not talking to everybody, but because everybody I talk to has a different answer. All of those answers are always with a caveat, “Well, I can’t say for sure, but this is what I’m feeling.” So, everybody’s in the same boat.

David Read:
That’s all I asked. I appreciate it.

Jenny Stiven:
The only people that know for sure are probably Chris Ottinger, Mark Burnett, Michael Wright and the head of Amazon Creative Studios. That’s probably the only people who know for sure.

David Read:
OK. The other point, Kel Myster beat me to it here, Stargate is being pulled from the different platforms that it’s been on. So, it’s retiring left and right. Part of me is like, “Well, there goes that.”

Jenny Stiven:
No, that’s not the case.

David Read:
Let me finish my thought. In terms of contracts, if it was… There, you guys did it again. Darren, can you… There we go. OK, perfect. Everyone stay there. Your names are reversed. If it was a huge resounding success on, for instance, Netflix, would it still be on Netflix?

Jenny Stiven:
Yeah. Absolutely. This has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with, as you and I dealt with ad nauseam, and Darren has reported on ad nauseam, international contracts and distribution contracts.

David Read:
So, even if it was a huge success on Netflix, it wouldn’t still be there now?

Jenny Stiven:
No, because that contract expired.

David Read:
Expired. OK. So, Netflix wouldn’t have, for instance, fought to extend it if people were like, “OK, we have 5 million people in the middle of the show now. Can we please, at the last minute, extend this?”

Jenny Stiven:
No.

David Read:
So, it would have been a possibility?

Jenny Stiven:
Yeah. Because I’m sure Amazon, as the 800-pound gorilla, said, “OK, nope. We’re pulling that,” because they’re gonna run it. It’s gonna be picked up by Amazon in some manner, shape, or form fairly quickly. I think there’s gonna be a very short window where nobody has access to it on streaming and then it’s gonna be picked up by Amazon. That’s the whole point, is that they want that exclusivity to it.

David Read:
I see.

Jenny Stiven:
They want the exclusivity to all of that catalog. So, for instance, Teen Wolf, which is a shared production with MTV, is gonna be pulled.

David Read:
I see.

Jenny Stiven:
So, all of these different ones are gonna be pulled over the next year.

David Read:
That was my thought process because Star Trek, CBS All Access, has been out for years now. Now it’s Paramount+ but it was still on Netflix and I assumed it was annually renewed. It’s why I kept my Netflix account, was to keep watching TNG and DS9 and Voyager. I just assumed that that was the reason why it continued to be there, because it continued to make them money and CBS was approaching them and saying, “OK, if you want it, you need to put this money down” and Netflix was going, “Take it. Take my money.”

Jenny Stiven:
But see, here’s the difference. This is Amazon who’s gonna own it now. Which is a rival streamer, not the studio who’s doing a distribution like a syndication deal.

David Read:
So, even though CBS All Access was a streamer?

Jenny Stiven:
But see, they’re not, though. They owned it as Paramount+ CBS Viacom, only one of their distribution channels. Now, having said that, Amazon has owned some other content and done some deals where they’re aggregating. You can see, if you go to Amazon Prime Video, you can get BritBox, Acorn. You can get CBS All Access. They’re positioning themselves as an aggregator of streaming. So, just like you could do subscription aggregation when we were doing cable, you will be able to do that with Amazon. It is quite possible, once they reset and do a complete legal reset, that they will allow syndication to other distribution channels just like any studio does, where they say, “Here’s our content.” But this I do know, my understanding, end of 2019 and all of 2020, was an audit by several different independent auditors of MGM. I don’t mean audit in a bad way. I mean whose contracts are where, what countries, what territories, who has what. That means for every single, solitary title and catalog, and that meant in production also. They spent the entire year doing that.

David Read:
If you’re taking possession of something, don’t you want to know where all the bodies are buried?

Jenny Stiven:
MGM voluntarily did it so that they could put themselves on the table. There were three buyers on the table, so they could say, “Here’s where everything is and here’s what we’ve had an independent auditor assess the value at.” That’s one of the reasons why you saw a bit of a bidding war there. At 8.45 billion, while that seems insane, that’s actually, I think, a pretty fair evaluation of what MGM is bringing to the table, especially if you count Bond.

David Read:
I was about to say, Bond.

Jenny Stiven:
It’s got its own issues, in terms of ownership. I think for anybody, fans, we have every right to be so frustrated that this is being yanked. As a business on the marketing and distribution side, just so everybody knows, David and Darren and I saw this quite a bit from when we came back in 2014 to 2019, that the distribution deals were insane. Michael Brown had done such a great job of sustaining the Stargate brand worldwide and then Chris Ottinger as well, with amazing deals worldwide for distribution. But all of those deals now have to be tabled, reassessed, stopped, expired, all of that, and Amazon brings everything under one roof, as best they can. At some end point, which will be probably March of 2022, they’ll say, “OK, if there’s anything outstanding in Brazil or whatever else, fine, but we’re bringing everything under one roof and then we’ll reassess in the next year.”

Darren Sumner:
Part of it is administration. You’ve gotta let all those other international deals lapse. There is 200-plus countries that MGM’s products are in. You’ve gotta let those deals lapse and they have different terms. They have different end dates and it’s like right when Disney+ launches without all the Marvel movies, or without all the Star Wars movies. They’ll get there eventually.

Jenny Stiven:
Or without all the Fox stuff. There were giant complaints that there was no Archer, Simpsons. When it launched, it didn’t have it.

Darren Sumner:
I think what you’re describing is there is an end point, probably sometime in 2022, where the deals have to be allowed to lapse so that Amazon can bring everything under one umbrella. It’s in MGM’s best interest right now to get everything tidied up for Amazon for when this deal closes. Here’s the state of things right now, we saw it announced that Stargate was leaving Netflix, SG-1 was leaving Netflix, at the end of November, so in 10 days. I haven’t gone back and looked yet, but I’ve seen some indication that that sort of leaving soon flag might be gone now. There might have been an extension, we don’t know yet, and we won’t necessarily know until December 1st gets here. But Hulu does this. When a show reaches within two weeks of the expiration date, Hulu will automatically flag a show as, “This is leaving in…expires in 14 days,” and you can watch the countdown. Hulu did that with all of Stargate last month in October, they were all counting down, all three of the shows, and then they hit the 1st of November and Atlantis was still there.

Jenny Stiven:
They did get an extension and that was announced.

Darren Sumner:
Atlantis is still streaming. So, there’s these little short-term extensions and you don’t know until the new month gets here. There could be short-term extensions. SG-1 could get another three months on Netflix. It could pop up on Hulu for two months, but only insofar as the parties are willing to do short-term deals.

Jenny Stiven:
Sorry. I was gonna ask you, David, because I can only be on my phone, I was gonna do a shout out to Tracy if she could check my – first of all, hi, Tracy – if she could check my Twitter account, because there were four questions and I can’t look at them now. I wanna make sure I answer the people who had directly asked me on my Twitter account, on Jenny Stiven, some questions. There was a couple and I wanna make sure I don’t ignore those.

David Read:
Tracy, underneath the questions lists in the live viewer questions page between set one and set two, I’ve put a place for Jenny’s questions and we’re gonna get those handled as well.

Jenny Stiven:
Thank you.

David Read:
Absolutely.

Jenny Stiven:
I appreciate it. Sorry to ask that logistical question on air.

David Read:
No, it’s all good. There are some questions pertaining to this that some people are asking. Erpel Homo, “What would be a reason to do a Stargate reboot rather than continue the series?” Jerome Labana, “If it is a continuation, what are the chances they’ll use references rather than general references to bring back some of the cast members?” I think the first one is, you have baggage with 356 episodes. If you’re trying to introduce new people to it, and to start fresh from day one, I won’t watch Doctor Who, largely because I…

Jenny Stiven:
Wait, what?

David Read:
Largely because I’m not gonna sit through 1000 episodes.

Jenny Stiven:
I did not know that.

David Read:
There’s a camp factor to it that I can’t get over.

Jenny Stiven:
My God, I didn’t know that.

Darren Sumner:
I haven’t seen the 1965…

Jenny Stiven:
I’m so gonna give you shit.

David Read:
It’s one of the perceived barriers to entry that Amazon may rightfully go, “No.” As far as the new content goes, it’s the equivalent of Star Wars Legends. “You want to have a watch? It’s on the shelf. Have at it. We’re gonna make something new.” I can’t blame them if they go that route.

Jenny Stiven:
No, I think you’re spot on.

David Read:
I understand, I completely get it. I can’t blame them.

Darren Sumner:
The question is, how sacrosanct is that legacy content? With Star Wars, nobody was gonna reboot Star Wars and say, “The original trilogy didn’t happen in this universe.” But we’ve seen plenty of reboots in our lifetimes and it totally makes sense if the decision is made that the canon is not that sacrosanct.

David Read:
How noisy are the fans? Star Wars fans would not have had it. You’ve got generations and generations.

Darren Sumner:
Stargate fans can be noisy.

Jenny Stiven:
OK, if we’re gonna stick with, and no offense to our own fandom, but we’re not Star Wars.

David Read:
Go ahead. No, you’re not.

Jenny Stiven:
I do think that you’re spot on, David, that it’s gonna come down to not what are the fans gonna put up with, but how much from a production standpoint does this make sense? This is, again, why I keep coming back to being 50/50. Sticking with canon actually benefits them since they just bought the catalog. If they want people to spend the money to watch the new show, think about how many people they could get and have continue their subscription if they have to watch 307 hours of Stargate. There’s a lot to be said for that. There’s also, from a production standpoint, a way to get around that, which is you do what we did with Daniel starting SGU. There’s lots of ways to do supplemental content that gives a great summation of everything that’s happened. Considering that Stargate operates on a humor basis, you could have General O’Neill come in and say, “Hi, kids. This is what we’re gonna do.” He could go through a whole description of, “Just wanna get y’all caught up because it’s 2061 and now this is what we’re doing.” You never know. There’s lots of great ways and there are lots of great writers. Amazon’s Creative Studios, to their credit, has a kick-ass network of writers and directors and showrunners. I don’t want to take away from them at all, because it could be that they go to somebody new even. That’s the beauty of Amazon’s Creative Studios; they’re not limited to who they already have on deck. A lot of networks have now resorted to that, where they go out and they get brand-new production companies to come on board, but it takes a lot longer for them to do it. Amazon can do it super quickly. It could be a really cool way to do it that solves both of those questions.

David Read:
Jenuine Joy says, “I’ve only seen MGM promote and talk about the original Dean Devlin SG film. Could that be a signal from Amazon?”

Jenny Stiven:
Do they mean recently, since the purchase? ‘Cause I don’t think that’s true. Lionsgate co-owns the theatrical version.

Darren Sumner:
I think MGM, on Twitter, for a week or two was suddenly pumping out Stargate movie tweets, if I’m remembering right. I thought it was weird at the time because of the Lionsgate thing.

Jenny Stiven:
I think that was because Lionsgate asked them to do that. I know Lionsgate, ’cause we worked with them, we did quid pro quo marketing push promos for each other. I’m sure that they were doing the anniversary and wanted to do some promotion. I’m guessing.

David Read:
I think that that’s fair, but it brings out the mixed signals that fans may take away from it if they see the MGM official account saying these things. It’s like, “OK, are they telegraphing something to us? Is this the push?” Or is this, like you say, a quid pro quo right now? It’s interesting.

Jenny Stiven:
That’s random. I didn’t see that. I missed it. I gotta be honest. I’m sorry, MGM, but I don’t pay attention to your social media very much anymore. Not because I don’t want to, it’s not, unfortunately, first of mind. That seems random. I gotta be honest, I don’t think that would be telegraphing anything, but good lord.

Darren Sumner:
It was random and it was causing some people to speculate, is MGM saying to us, “It’s time to go back to the original feature film and the SG-1 TV canon, let’s not think about that right now, we’re gonna think about the feature film.” That’s a bad signal. I know fans are always sort of reading between the lines, but…

David Read:
We have nothing better to do. That’s all we got.

Jenny Stiven:
I would also say, that’s not even like they’re trying to pull it out of nothing. That’s out there. We do have to remember, and this could be fair, that to go back to David and Darren’s point that Amazon might have been saying, “Hey, Stargate catalog TV, hold for us.” Roland Emmerich did have a deal with the creative group at MGM and that might still be outstanding. That might still be in good standing. So, if that’s true, those two things can still happen. Again, Michael De Luca’s been doing a massive press to make sure that the shift in MGM’s approach as to filmmaking is clear, He’s spent 18 months pounding that pavement. I gotta be honest, I’m literally stitching four different pieces of information together that could mean absolutely nothing. It is a bit random that they did it, that they spent time on that.

David Read:
Redux says, “With Prime Video’s track record, does a streamer look good compared to Netflix, where they’ll cancel a show after one or two seasons? What could we expect from Stargate’s new home?”

Jenny Stiven:
I love Amazon.

David Read:
They would have to put it up there for a few seasons at least.

Jenny Stiven:
Amazon’s much, much better about it. There are ones that they’ve canceled that I was gutted about, but, in general, talking to friends of ours, Johnny Z and those guys over there, they are really happy. There was a massive restructuring six months ago within the whole Prime Video Creative Studios and they have now a whole silo that’s just fantasy sci-fi. Literally, that’s the genre. There are people just in charge of that and then underneath that are people who literally fight for these shows. I think the approach that Amazon has is massively different now, not only from Netflix, but from studios. I, personally, love their new restructuring. I love how they’ve set up. It’s not the assembly line ka-chunk, ka-chunk anymore. It doesn’t reflect an e-commerce business model. I love it. So, I think there’s good thoughts.

David Read:
This was the big thing for me. When I heard that Amazon was doing this, coming into the fray, I was like, “Well, if there is a good takeaway, as far as I’m concerned, it’s that you have such a radically different company that’s on all of these frontiers, not just inside the film and television business, that could really shake up the industry in a positive way if we give them the opportunity and can really throw some good, solid money at this thing if they have the correct people in the mix to really make something positive of the industry.” They could blow it straight to hell, I suppose too, but the fact of the matter is, they seem to be more willing to take more chances on some much higher-quality content in terms of the money that they throw at it and the energy that they throw at it, as Apple is doing with Foundation and See. They’re just magnificent television in terms of the quality. They look good.

Darren Sumner:
They look good. Foundation is for a different podcast.

David Read:
I’ve seen the first episode.

Jenny Stiven:
There was a wealth of information in those two words from you. That was great. “It looks good.”

David Read:
I love the books too. All right. Dan Ben, “Darren, what do you think of Eaglemoss’ Stargate models?”

Jenny Stiven:
Ooh.

Darren Sumner:
I haven’t seen them yet. I’ve seen pictures. I wanna hold them in my hands. I wanna play with them. I’m really excited for this licensee. Man, how many years have we been asking for Stargate ship models?

David Read:
I know.

Darren Sumner:
Then out of nowhere, Eaglemoss, which has been doing Trek models by subscription for a long time, they announced that they’re doing it and it’s happening now. They announced the Daedalus. It’s coming out at the end of this month. I’ve been talking with the Hero Collector Eaglemoss guys and I’m gonna get some samples here and look at it and see how big it is and see what the detail looks like. They just announced the second ship is gonna be the Ha’tak, Goa’uld mothership. That’s probably early after New Year’s.

David Read:
Wow, I have it pulled up on the screen here so that fans can see the detail.

Darren Sumner:
The Ha’tak looks gorgeous.

David Read:
It’s really, really nice with all the little hand-painted windows. The quality is great.

Darren Sumner:
I’m reserving judgment about the Daedalus based on the photos until I see it. When they first came out, I was like, “Well, the Daedalus doesn’t quite look like that, does it?” Then I went and looked up shots from the show. I was like, “No, there it is. That’s in the screen model.” No, there’s that coloration. I mean, the Daedalus’ exterior is all these individual metallic panels.

David Read:
It just looks like it’s been sitting out in the rain.

Darren Sumner:
When the ship is in motion, they cast light differently, and you get that kind of… not every panel is the same color reflecting the same light. So, I wanna see the Daedalus in person. But the Ha’tak looks gorgeous. The third ship is gonna be the Death Glider.

Jenny Stiven:
Sweet.

David Read:
I was on the fence. I was like, “OK, please God, let them do these models justice.”

Darren Sumner:
They’re affordable. They’re $55 US. 50 euros for each one.

Jenny Stiven:
That’s completely doable.

David Read:
How big are they? How big are we talking?

Darren Sumner:
The Daedalus is about eight and a half inches long. The Ha’tak is about six by six inches.

Jenny Stiven:
That Ha’tak looks gorgeous.

David Read:
It does. It’s a nice piece of hardware all the way around.

Jenny Stiven:
I like that.

Darren Sumner:
They were gonna be featured on GateWorld and I’m hoping my new… after we move, my new set is gonna have some display space behind me. Not that I’m ever gonna approach the majesty of the Dial the Gates, which I see now has a replicator for Season Two.

David Read:
It does. That’s 3dtech.pro. “Get yours today.” I have absolutely been blessed. I’m really, really excited that these things are coming along. I do wanna have at least someone from Eaglemoss on to discuss their process.

Jenny Stiven:
That would be so cool.

David Read:
That’s hopefully in the works. These are extremely cool. For sure. Let me see here. Kirsti Greene also posted on Jenny’s Twitter. It’s a reflection of what Jenny said earlier and I wanna reiterate, “Is it now the time for fans to get behind campaigns like 365 Days of Stargate?”

Jenny Stiven:
I know I announced that on my Twitter.

Darren Sumner:
It’s been the time for a while. After we did our last podcast and the Stargate 365 campaign launched, I got a little crap on YouTube and on social from folks who were like, “Well, do Jenny and David endorse this?”

David Read:
Everyone’s trying to figure out their own way of approaching this and we’re certainly not gonna say, “We are the ones in charge and you cannot do that.” No. That’s ridiculous. We have our opinions. We’re looking at this from a strategic point of view. It’s like, “OK, strategically, when do we wanna start pushing our side?” They went ahead and did this and it’s really good.

Jenny Stiven:
Also, we don’t want to have…and every single fan has been a part of it, when it loses its momentum. You wanna have it be that you’ve got those, to David’s point, strategic people that are coming in each time. It’s GateWorld, Dial the Gate, it’s Brad. The reason that I was saying that now’s a great time is because Brad decided to make that step forward and to say, “Here’s what’s going on. Here’s where my head’s at. This is what I’m thinking.” To do that publicly – I talked to him last week – it is a great way in this, what we presume to be the logistical timeframe of three to six months of this deal closing and then, therefore, production starting up. Obviously, MGM, like Darren and David said, is doing production simultaneously, but a lot of stuff is on hold. Amazon’s not moving forward on certain things they might want to, because you’re waiting for that final logistical mergers and acquisitions. We’ve got FTC and SEC, apparently, outstanding rulings on certain things. So, all of that’s gonna have to wait. So, they’re not gonna spend money on pre-production. This is a great time for those conversations so that Amazon pays attention to that and says, “OK, as soon as we start doing those pre-productions, cool, this is what we’re gonna do. ‘Cause we noticed over here there’s all these people talking about it and there’s 300,000 fans worldwide talking about it. OK, you know what? Let’s get that pre-production going.” That’s why I think now’s a good time. We’ve got that six-month lead time or three-month lead time to maybe urge them to have these pre-production meetings, to get started talking about a potential Stargate.

David Read:
My ears perked up. What are the chances the FTC could still pull the plug on this thing? I thought we were out of the woods.

Jenny Stiven:
Apparently, there are still some questions that are going back and forth. I would say there’s very little chance. Separate conversation sometime that we should go into about monopolies and whether it should be questioned. That’s a different conversation, but I don’t think that it’s gonna be an issue, mainly because MGM is a production studio. Where it becomes an issue is with its distribution channels, because then you’ve got a monopoly.

David Read:
Dargonis Wing, also from Jenny’s Twitter, “Any information on SG Merch,” which we just covered there, “or cons happening in the United States?” Darren, your ear to the ground on that?

Darren Sumner:
No dedicated Stargate cons in the US. It was Creation that was doing them under license from MGM. They had Chicago going fairly recently. Jenny, maybe you’ve heard an update on that. There is nothing announced as far as I know from Creation. So, it’s just the cast members turning up at other events.

David Read:
They’ve been overseas. They were doing some stuff.

Darren Sumner:
Jewel will always do things like Dragon Con.

Jenny Stiven:
In Wales this weekend; a whole bunch of them are at the Wales one this weekend.

Darren Sumner:
Big stuff in Wales right now.

Jenny Stiven:
Gatecon’s gonna be huge in September 2022. I think, from what I understand from the Creation guys, they’re still open to it. I think, again, that’s part of everything being on hold. Because who’s gonna make those decisions? Now, I do know that the guy that’s in charge of licensing and merchandising is amazing and Trish Samuels is his right-hand international lead. He’s a huge fan of Stargate. I know that that’s why Eaglemoss, that’s why all of these are still…

Darren Sumner:
They’ve gotten much more active in the last year. I just had a long conversation with MGM Licensing and there are a bunch of people who are excited about getting some Stargate stuff going again. Which is why we’ve got Eaglemoss and we’ve got new licensees coming on. They’re having conversations about going back and revisiting some old licensees.

Jenny Stiven:
Yes, they are, and all that tracks back to Bob Merrick and Trish Samuels, who are longtime fans of Stargate and supporters of it. I think once they had a window of opportunity, they pushed right through. When it comes to cons, that’s a completely different setup under licensing. My understanding is that they’re gonna wait on that, they’re gonna let everything do its due course by the fans and by the actors themselves. That’s my current understanding.

David Read:
All right. Redux, “When Stargate was in production, the creators seemed to have a lot of freedom where MGM let them do their thing. Would you think we would see the same under Amazon Prime?”

Jenny Stiven:
Definitely. If you look at Frank Spotnitz’s production company with Man in the High Castle and some of the others, Hunters or Jack Ryan, they’ve got almost full autonomy. OK, let me back up. It depends on how Amazon Creative Studios wants to develop. How it started 10 years ago and how it’s gonna end up 10 years from now, I don’t know. When you’re the new kid on the block, you tend to let everybody do their own thing, because you wanna make a name for yourself. You wanna make a big splash and you wanna be creative and you wanna win those awards. The best way to do that is to let people do their thing. Once you start to get more structured, however, you start to have a little bit more input and, “Oh, wait, we have to have more process.” I don’t see that happening, which is ironic considering it’s a big process-oriented hierarchical company. Depending upon how they let MGM set up its shingle, it could be a lot more independence and free production creativity than maybe they were allowed before.

David Read:
Wow. You think we’re gonna keep the same 8-12 episode model too?

Jenny Stiven:
Yeah. That seems to be the sweet spot. Also, that’s great for syndication.

David Read:
That’s a fair point. Lost you again, Jenny.

Jenny Stiven:
Can you hear me?

David Read:
Yes, we can. Very good. Can you hear us?

Jenny Stiven:
Sorry about that.

David Read:
No, it’s OK.

Jenny Stiven:
I think the ability to sell those four to five seasons regardless of your Amazon… Netflix is weird. They only do two or three. But your ability to sell those in syndication on your own streaming internationally is huge to have a certain chunk of episodes. So, while the 10 to 12 is the sweet spot, that also gives us an opportunity to have more seasons.

David Read:
We have more than 200 people watching in the live chat and I wanna say thank you to all of you who have come along for the ride to share this experience with us. Thank you, Jenny, for giving us all this information. Darren, are there any more areas that we wanna make sure that we cover that we haven’t explored yet at all in this discussion about the goings-on of the franchise? Anything that you’ve heard with your ear to the ground?

Darren Sumner:
No, I think we’ve done a good job of covering most of what we’ve been paying attention to lately. I’m really encouraged that Brad is still energized by Stargate. That he’s been doing what he’s doing with The Companion, that they did the Stargate AI table read, which was a kick in the pants for Brad and everybody else.

Jenny Stiven:
Wasn’t it?

David Read:
That was crazy.

Darren Sumner:
Hilarious.

David Read:
David Hewlett brought up an interesting point when we had him on last week of how clear the stage directions were in comparison to the dialogue. I found that very interesting.

Jenny Stiven:
Laurence Moroney said, ’cause I talked to Laurence a couple of weeks ago about that, he said that’s because there was so much more stage direction in all of the scripts that they uploaded into the AI. Stage direction, again, if you think about, I’m sure people have seen a bazillion scripts, but if you look at a stage direction, and not to boil it down to something like a cartoon, “Enter stage left” is pretty much what you get. It’s voiceover. It is usually something like “McKay walks into room.”

David Read:
They’re straightforward.

Jenny Stiven:
It’s short phrases and it’s subject, object, destination. That’s it.

David Read:
Subject, verb, object.

Jenny Stiven:
Exactly. Laurence was saying the AI could turn that out so much easier because it’s basically a three-year-old kid. So, “Don’t eat that” works really well for the AI. “Don’t put that in your mouth.”

David Read:
“He looks at her. She looks at him. He looks at her.”

Jenny Stiven:
That’s exactly it. That was the best.

Darren Sumner:
This was so brilliant because everybody played it for what it was. It was tongue in cheek. It was hilarious. Laurence Moroney, who’s the Google AI advocate, is a Stargate fan.

David Read:
He is.

Jenny Stiven:
Yes. He is.

Darren Sumner:
We knew him back from the SGU days. Everybody sort of brought it. Michael is Daniel again. Hewlett is Rodney again.

David Read:
“Come on.”

Jenny Stiven:
I know. That was the best. Actually, Laurence Moroney was talking about that. One of the reasons that showed up is because, again, it’s that short phrase. McKay had some very distinctive phrases. Amanda was saying, “Well, how come I didn’t get any of those?” Laurence goes, “Because all of your phrases were scientific jargon.” Her catchphrases are scientific jargon and that comes out as gibberish. Hewlett had the best easily, I hate to say this, but more easily digested dialogue. There you go on that. Hey, Darren, what I wanted to ask you about is what are you thinking about Wyvern Gaming’s game? ‘Cause David, you haven’t had a chance to talk about this and you should. You got to go to Gen Con.

David Read:
That’s right.

Jenny Stiven:
I think you guys should talk about it. They’re gonna be at Comic-Con and it’s really taking off. I think one of the best things about Wyvern Gaming was that it showed so clearly what licensing and merchandising had been saying for years, that there’s a big audience for this.

David Read:
I think that you’re absolutely right. What are you fetching? What do you got there? Ooh.

Darren Sumner:
I haven’t done my official unboxing yet.

Jenny Stiven:
Look at that. That’s beautiful.

Darren Sumner:
It’s really beautiful.

Jenny Stiven:
They did a great job.

David Read:
Is there a foreword in there by chance?

Darren Sumner:
No. They were gonna have one, but they cut it ’cause it ended up being really boring.

David Read:
Really? Huh.

Darren Sumner:
No, there’s a foreword, I believe, by General…

David Read:
General Lawyer?

Darren Sumner:
… David Read Reed.

Jenny Stiven:
I love it.

David Read:
Can you find it?

Darren Sumner:
There it is, right there.

Jenny Stiven:
Yay.

David Read:
Hey. There’s my foreword.

Jenny Stiven:
I love that. That’s great.

David Read:
These are available online…

Darren Sumner:
They’re beautiful.

David Read:
… at stargatetherpg.com, I believe is the address, along with the missions to get started and everything else.

Darren Sumner:
I’m waiting to do my unboxing video. I’m waiting until my dice get here. They shipped out the books and now they’re doing all the Kickstarter extras.

Jenny Stiven:
The miniatures and all that. That’s gonna be cool.

Darren Sumner:
So, I’m waiting for my extra goodies to show up so I can do a video.

David Read:
They are terrific.

Jenny Stiven:
The miniature figures are gonna be kick ass. Although currently I’m using Lego ones, which is much better.

David Read:
I was privileged to be invited by Wyvern to go and shoot some footage for their event at Gen Con in Indianapolis. We did a short documentary, which is about 20 minutes long, by one of the gate masters who was there. We did a walkthrough of the booth and a couple of other smaller pieces, some after-game interviews with some of the people who had played the game to discuss the mechanics of it, mostly from seasoned gamers. We also talked with some people who had never played before.

Darren Sumner:
It’s a really great set of videos if folks haven’t watched it yet.

David Read:
I appreciate that.

Darren Sumner:
I really enjoyed the booth walkthrough.

David Read:
They’re on Dial the Gate right now. They came out, I believe, over September, if I’m not mistaken. It was A Day in the Life of a Gate Master. That was the documentary actually.

Jenny Stiven:
I loved that one. I love that.

David Read:
Lee was fantastic. He was so funny.

Jenny Stiven:
It was so much fun. I love that.

David Read:
They’ve got it right. They really got the vibe and the spirit translated into a great physical product as well. I think you’re exactly right, Jenny, because I think it bodes extremely well for licensing and merchandising moving forward. We can go and say, “If you wanna do it right, do it like this.” I think they’re really gonna home run it.

Jenny Stiven:
This is a small company. It was unbelievable hard work for them. I think, Darren, especially because you pay a lot of attention to the licensing and merchandising side and you know what these guys go through. American Mythology Publications, all these guys, they go through a lot when they’re doing this. It’s never easy and it’s all out of pocket. It’s not like MGM gives you money to do this. You pay MGM to license the IP to put out your product, which means you’re fronting all of that money.

Darren Sumner:
They gotta get it to market and they have to jump through all the licensing hurdles to get it to market.

Jenny Stiven:
They are the only ones who have had a Kickstarter that was approved by MGM.

David Read:
You can’t just Kickstart everything. That’s an anomaly.

Jenny Stiven:
It was. I don’t know necessarily that MGM will do that again. I think that they saw how much money that Wyvern made and…

David Read:
Lost you.

Darren Sumner:
You’re gone again.

David Read:
Aw. That thing was Kickstarted in four hours.

Jenny Stiven:
Sorry.

David Read:
You’re good. We got you.

Darren Sumner:
Took them four hours to Kickstart the…

David Read:
It was crazy. I’m sitting there going, “This bodes well for the future.” I wouldn’t have expected the reverse to happen. It was like, “OK, can’t we proceed with other things on Kickstarter now?” The mindset is “Not necessarily.” It’s like, “Really?”

Darren Sumner:
It’s a perception thing, I think, for licensing. There’s a perception when something’s Kickstarted that it might not happen. MGM wants to make it clear that when they give their rubber stamp to something, it’s gonna happen. Stargate Worlds and Stargate SG-1: The Alliance and how many others can we think of now we’re seeing it?

David Read:
Absolutely. Something personal there that we’re walking on.

Jenny Stiven:
Dagger to the chest for you guys?

David Read:
To the back. To the chest.

Darren Sumner:
But Jenny, to your point, having worked with licensees for almost 20 years, you really can tell when a group comes along that wants the Stargate license because they sort of, “We can make use of this to sell our product.” I don’t know what those licensees look like. On the other side, a licensee who starts from the place of, “Hey, we’re Stargate fans.” “We could do something really cool in this world.” That’s what Wyvern did with RPG.

Jenny Stiven:
Absolutely.

David Read:
Yuki at Home, “Do you think Amazon would be up for making a Stargate video game?”

Jenny Stiven:
Someone had asked me…along with that. OK, licensing and merchandising in Amazon is very weird. Obviously, you have an e-commerce giant who knows merchandising backwards and forwards. They know original merchandising, but they also obviously do quite a bit of affiliate marketing. They do quite a bit of, “Hey, if you wanna make it yourself and have our imprint on it, here’s what happens.” Kindle publishing being the perfect example of that. But, it is still a giant machine. I do know that the internal licensing and merchandising at Creative Studios is going to be different. I don’t think it’s been around for longer than five years, I don’t think. I’d have to ask Cameron and those guys. I don’t know how adventurous they’re gonna be to answer that question specifically. However, I do know that they’re absolutely 100% behind gaming. So, they’re looking at e-sports; they’re already in it. I know for a fact that gaming, if there’s gonna be anything, is going to be a push. Whether Stargate’s one of those IPs that comes up first as one of the ones to do, I don’t know. They may do Pink Panther or something instead. It is, I know, a massive goal for them in gaming. How that works, I don’t know the ins and outs and it’s a great question, ’cause it just made me realize I haven’t talked to those guys over there in the licensing and merchandising side of marketing. I’d love to go ask them from a discovery standpoint, “How are you handling that with all of your new titles that are original for you or that you’ve acquired? Are you taking all of those existing licenses? Are you doing something new? Are you doing something different from the world of Disney?” ‘Cause Amazon tends to do stuff differently, so it’d be fascinating to find out.

David Read:
With your experience with creatives, do you think they’re gonna look at the back catalog of the failed history of Stargate video games and say, “Ugh. I don’t think so?” Or do you think that they will be more like, “You know what? We’re gonna do one and we’re gonna do it right and it’s gonna be amazing and we’re gonna prove all of these haters who say that it can’t be done wrong. Stargate game curse, my foot.”

Jenny Stiven:
I think both. I think what’s gonna happen is you’re gonna have the Amazon side that is the Amazon parent say, “Ooh, I don’t know about that.” Then you’re gonna have the Creative Studio side who’s reaching into gaming now, who’s establishing an entire gaming module, and they’re gonna say, “No. We can get this done.” There’s a lot of reasons why those other ones failed that had a lot to do with revenue streams.

David Read:
And creative direction.

Jenny Stiven:
Exactly. Creative direction, I don’t know, because I don’t know Amazon Games enough to know their creative direction.

David Read:
I’m referring to Stargate Worlds.

Jenny Stiven:
I think that’s a good point, because a lot of games fail because of that. Rockstar Games pulled itself out of a massive issue in that. Sam Maggs can talk to you at length about what she’s been through that was positive and negative. The one that she just did was amazing, but it’s after she’s been through the trenches with it. I think the fan’s question is fascinating and, of course, now I’m gonna go call everybody and find out what I can. I think your point is a good one, because I think it depends on who the decision makers end up living. Are they living in the Creative Studios side or are they living in the parent? Or this new gaming unit, and who’s in charge of the gaming unit?

Darren Sumner:
You know who just launched a gaming platform that everybody is still trying to wrap their heads around? Netflix.

David Read:
I’m a Steam boy. What are they doing? Sorry, go ahead.

Darren Sumner:
What you gotta understand about what Netflix is doing with gaming, at least to start out with, is it’s really sort of narrow in scope. It’s not overly ambitious. These are small games. They might even all be mobile games, I don’t know. There’s a little Stranger Things game and that ties into their IP. I could see Amazon starting on the smaller side. Now, they already have a big push because they bought [inaudible]. Prime Gaming is a big platform now. If you’re a Prime subscriber, they’ll give you free PC games every month. I could see them, when they look to their other IPs that Amazon actually owns, that are TV and film IPs that could be brought to the video game space, I see them starting small. It’s not gonna be a big AAA MMO Stargate Worlds type thing that costs many, many millions of dollars. They could start small and that’s where the franchise is right now already. Remember, we have a Stargate game that’s in active development right now.

David Read:
Stargate Timekeepers.

Darren Sumner:
Everybody forgot about it because Stargate: Timekeepers released an announcement trailer and then they went back to work. We’re gonna have more to talk about next year for Timekeepers.

David Read:
What are your feelings about Timekeepers?

Darren Sumner:
I think it’s appropriately small. I think it’s not overly ambitious. It’s gonna scratch the itch for a particular niche, because it’s a desktop PC strategy game. A lot of people are gonna be thrilled with that. I’m gonna play it.

David Read:
I’m gonna definitely start playing it too.

Darren Sumner:
A lot of people are gonna not be interested in the genre. They’re gonna say, “Why can’t I go through the gate and run around in an open world?”

David Read:
Stargate, what was it? Stargate Network? Are those the ones that did the first-person shooter simulation, I think?

Jenny Stiven:
I think so.

David Read:
It’s a fan-made project and it’s really cool. I recommend it.

Jenny Stiven:
I loved it.

David Read:
All right, guys. Eva L., “How excited are you about RDA being on Brad’s podcast?”

Jenny Stiven:
So cool.

Darren Sumner:
I could imagine that this was gonna happen. I know that they’re really close, and Rick will do whatever Brad asks. But when Brad’s podcast launched last spring, the hope was that we were gonna get all the cast. Rick’s always the hardest to get. I’m just thrilled that they’re gonna do it. It’s gonna be a wall to wall, right at it.

David Read:
He’s very private and I was never expecting that. It’s gonna be really nice to see him again. Him popping in on the iPad was really funny.

Jenny Stiven:
I know. It was perfect. It was a lot of fun.

Darren Sumner:
It’s gonna be, I think, really insightful, because of the history that they have together. You can just listen to them read the phone book together and it’ll be entertaining. This is gonna be really fascinating.

Jenny Stiven:
I think it’s gonna be somewhat cathartic for a lot of fans too, because there’s been a build-up of “Is anybody gonna get RDA?” For a long time, Creation tried to get him. I think it’s gonna be great for fans to have that, “OK, there he is.”

David Read:
“He’s here. He’s good.”

Jenny Stiven:
Exactly, and he’s talking to Brad. I would love to hear a business conversation between the two of them. Now, we may not get that because that may not be where his head’s at. I would love to hear about the business side of it, ’cause he’s a producer. He’s an executive producer, RDA is. He now would have a lot of really cool things to talk about with Brad about the business side of creating a show. I think that would be really cool to hear his opinion about things like that.

David Read:
Absolutely. All right, guys. I think that’s pretty much everything that everyone was covering here.

Jenny Stiven:
Let’s straight to print?

David Read:
I really wanna thank you for being on. This was terrific to have you both. Any last thoughts before we head into the rest of the fall and 2022? Darren?

Darren Sumner:
So much time passes with no news and I get pessimistic. But you know what? I’m realizing today that being with you guys and being with other fans gives me energy. It reminds me that even if there’s not a show in active production, the Stargate fandom that I love is still living and breathing and full of energy. It’s not just the people who are organizing the Twitter campaigns and it’s not just the licensees who are making new stuff, but we’re all in this together.

David Read:
Absolutely.

Jenny Stiven:
I love that. I say this a lot, but Stargate’s family. It’s one of the first fandoms that I worked within and there’s so much out there, Darren, to your point, that gets me excited every time. To that point, we’re gonna see a lot of fans at Stargate Comic Con. Wyvern Gaming is gonna have a booth there. GateWorld is sponsoring all this content. Dial the Gate is sponsoring all this content. I want everybody to be there because I want everybody to feel that energy that Darren just talked about. So, if you can join us, we’ll be obviously posting where you can join. That is the reason I do what I do, is that family, that connection, that amazing fun that you get that energy out of. I feel like that energy’s building, not dissipating.

David Read:
Absolutely. Darren, Happy Thanksgiving to you.

Darren Sumner:
Thank you.

David Read:
All my best to your family. Jenny…

Jenny Stiven:
Happy Thanksgiving.

David Read:
Happy Thanksgiving. I’ll see you at the table.

Jenny Stiven:
I know.

David Read:
I’m coming out. Comic Con.

Jenny Stiven:
Yay! I can’t wait to see you.

David Read:
It’s gonna be terrific, guys.

Jenny Stiven:
I love you guys. I love everybody out there, all Stargate fans. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

David Read:
I appreciate all you guys tuning in. Guys, thank you so much for being on.

Jenny Stiven:
Of course.

David Read:
You guys take care of yourselves. Be well. Darren Sumner and Jenny Stiven, contributors to Stargate fandom and absolutely wonderful to have them on. I do have some questions that were put out for me that I keep on putting off and I apologize for that. I’m gonna go ahead and get to those right now. Lots of people would like to know where the big Wraith suit is and will it be making an appearance? My studio here is much smaller. This is basically a converted bedroom. No suits can fit in here. I do have stuff on either side that you guys can’t normally see. It’s not practical in this room, the suits are downstairs. Redux, “Longtime viewer, first time caller. Where are the Furlings and Asgard guest stars and where is the suit? In the Pegasus galaxy?” If you’re referring to the Furling suit, we sold that at Propworx. I pulled up a picture here. This was the guy. When the prop and set dec department got their hands on him, they decided to make a Jaffa suit and they went crazy. They made this shorter staff weapon for him, gave him the Jaffa gauntlets and the rest of the armor. Gave him a piece of Wraith… I think this is a Wraith belt from “The Defiant One,” and Jaffa knife. They went to the trouble of creating this little emblem here, for crying out loud, that would make sense with a Furling. We were thinking, “Was this a direction they planned to go in and didn’t ultimately?” It had us running around at Propworx for a while trying to figure out what that was about. But whatever, it’s really cool. We sold that piece. The Asgard puppet/Vanir puppet from the two-part Stargate Atlantis episode, Propworx sold that as well. I’d love to have people that were responsible for putting the Asgard on to make that happen. We had Todd Masters from MastersFX in Season One; his team was actually the ones who built the suit. Check out Todd Masters’ episode. It is in the Season One lineup for sure. Xuiqila, “How do you choose people for the interviews? Do you ask everyone and see who wants to do it and has time?” I send out around… How do I wanna say this? This past week I put out eight requests and I’ve got three responses so far. Some yes, some no. It’s a matter of timing and if they’re interested at the time and if they have availability. I have a master list that I keep track of and the last time that I’ve reached out to a person. For Season One, I’ll ask someone. If they say no, I’ll wait a year and say, “Hey, you passed on us last time.” I’m trying to reach out to as many people as we can and get that going. A lot of people are willing. A lot of people will do one show but not do another, all we can do is ask and the worst they can say is “No.” That’s how I handle that. Let me see here. Other questions that I had. E Green: “When are you gonna have Torri Higginson on?” Torri, we had her on for the 100th episode. I am really hopeful that we’ll have her on for Season Two and we’re gonna keep on checking in with her. James Carlton: “Why are you using Pacific Time?” Because Vancouver and California are where we normally get our guests and they are in Pacific Time as well. I think that’s pretty much all that I have for you guys here. Next week’s guests, there aren’t any because we’re gonna be on Thanksgiving break. Our brand-new website here, so thank you so much. I really appreciate Fred for making that happen. Dial the Gate is brought to you every week for free and we do appreciate you watching. If you wanna support the show further, buy yourself some of our themed swag. We are now offering T-shirts, tank tops, sweatshirts and hoodies for all ages, as well as cups, mugs, some other accessories including stickers in a variety of sizes and colors at dialthegate.com/merch. You can click on a specific design to see what items are being offered. Checkout is fast and it’s easy. Go to dialthegate.com/merch and thank you so much for your support. We really appreciate having Jenny and Darren on this episode. Robert C. Cooper is gonna be joining us in the next episode for a pre-recorded show. That’s gonna be in 29 minutes at the top of the hour. Rob had over 60 questions submitted for him and I was like, “Well, I think we’re gonna turn this one over to the fans.” It’s the first episode with him for Season Two and it’s pretty much an entirely fan-driven discussion that lasts for over an hour. I’m really excited about that. It’s such a privilege to have him on. Him being right there with Brad for all those years, it’s terrific to get his insight and his answers are so steady and thoughtful and I just love having him on. I really want to thank my producer, Linda “GateGabber” Fury, as well as my moderating team, Sommer, Tracy, Keith, Jeremy, Rhys and Antony. You guys are fantastic. A huge shout-out to Frederick Marcoux at conceptsweb.ca. He is our web developer on Dial the Gate. Also, a big thank you to Jeremy Heiner, our webmaster, who keeps the site up to date, because God knows I can never get around to doing that. This is one of the things that I’ve discovered. By now, having the website on my own end rather than having it serviced through GateWorld, it’s like, “Oh yeah, I have to update this. I have to make time for that.” So, I’m really thankful to Jeremy. That’s what we have. We’ll be seeing you for new live programming December the 4th and the 5th. It’s gonna be one of those days, or both. But two more episodes coming up, Rob and then we have Stargate Concept Art, Seasons Four and Five from SG-1. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. I really appreciate you tuning in and we will see you on the other side.