Dial the Gate is privileged to celebrate 250 episodes and the return of Stargate Executive Producer and Writer Joseph Mallozzi, who paved so much of this road with us. Are their questions that we have yet to ask him? And what are his thoughts on Amazon and Stargate? Tune in LIVE to find out!

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Timecodes
0:00 – Splash Screen
0:28 – Opening Credits
0:56 – Welcome
1:27 – Dial the Gate San Diego Comic Con panel
2:40 – Guest Introduction
3:22 – Keeping Track of Numbered Episodes
4:45 – 200th Episode Party
6:12 – Stargate Rumors
8:06 – Total Reboot of the Franchise?
10:55 – No New Trek for Joe
13:16 – Acknowledge What Came Before
15:38 – The Industry in Canada
19:02 – Dark Matter: Comics to Television
22:28 – New Projects for Joe
23:38 – The Longest Days in the SG Writers Room
28:01 – What Is It the Stargate Does?
29:58 – Scripts With Complicated Explanations
31:36 – “Harmony” Flew Off the Page
34:19 – Casting Harmony
35:49 – Joe’s Favorite Characters for Dialogue
37:30 – Joe’s Mind During Writing
40:33 – Earth’s Evolution in the Next Stargate
42:09 – Earth’s Own Stargate Network?
43:10 – Milky Way Seed Ships
44:10 – Researching Mythology
45:33 – Scenes that Didn’t Meet Expectations
47:15 – Culture Then VS Now
48:45 – Rodney McKay Defies Reality
51:42 – A Favorite Stargate Episode
52:55 – Do Dark Matter and Stargate Share the Same Reality?
54:00 – AI and Story Generation
56:46 – Stargate Extinction: A Time Travel Story
58:40 – Can Wraith Live Without Feeding on Humans?
59:08 – Sharky!
1:01:37 – Thank You, Joe!
1:02:10 – Beau Bridges on Dial the Gate
1:03:23 – Post Interview Housekeeping
1:07:34 – End Credits

***

“Stargate” and all related materials are owned by MGM Studios and MGM Television.

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 250 of Dial the Gate. I can’t believe I’m saying that. It’s like, really? Is that possible? But it is. My name is David Read. Thank you so much for being with me for this episode. Joseph Mallozzi is going to be joining us for his 15th or 16th show, part 15 of him. He joined us for one with his writing partner, Paul Mullie. I have some news for everyone, and that news is that, lining up with 250 I guess there’s something appropriate, San Diego Comic-Con just notified me that my panel for this summer has been approved, and so I am privileged to announce that Dial the Gate is going to be presenting a 30th Anniversary Fan Celebration surrounding the Stargate feature film at San Diego Comic-Con 2024. The specific date and times have yet to be announced. I have an idea, but they’re like, “Hold off, because some things may change.” We will have special guests, and we will have some door prizes. And if you can’t make it to San Diego, we will be recording the event, and it will be presented on YouTube pretty much exactly one week after the panel itself from San Diego. So, I am beyond privileged that they have allotted us this. And according to the room information that I’ve been given, it’s a pretty tall order in terms of the number of seats. But that could easily change, so I’m very thankful. In the meantime, I am privileged to welcome back Joseph Mallozzi, writer and executive producer of Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, Stargate Universe. Joe, thank you once again for being here. It really means a lot to have you for 250, so…

Joseph Mallozzi:
Happy anniversary.

David Read:
Thank you!

Joseph Mallozzi:
It’s a huge milestone, 250.

David Read:
I know.

Joseph Mallozzi:
So, you’re gonna beat the Stargate episode run.

David Read:
At some point here, I may have beaten it in terms of overall hours. But I have to sit down and check, but yeah, we’re in the neighborhood, for sure. How did you feel when SG-1 got to 200? What was that reaction like? Did you ever keep track of your individual episodes so that you knew when you and Paul had written 100 episodes?

Joseph Mallozzi:
No, we never did, because it was such a machine. We were just… I felt like we were constantly writing or really constantly… When I say “constantly writing,” I mean physically sitting down and writing, but also just constantly thinking of ideas for episodes or running through the dialog in our heads, that we really didn’t have time to stop and take stock, although the production took stock for us. I remember we had the 200th Anniversary party. What episode was that? What was our 200th episode?

David Read:
The 200th episode itself? It was “Company of Thieves”.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah, I guess. Right.

David Read:
Was it “Company of Thieves?” No, that was… No, I’m thinking of the 200th episode of production with Atlantis. That’s a great question. Did anyone in the chat pull that out?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah, I don’t know.

David Read:
‘Cause I remember you guys had a party for “Wormhole X-Treme!” There was a party for “200,” and was that the one where Guinness showed up and said that “Company of Thieves” had beaten the record for longest-running sci-fi series…

Joseph Mallozzi:
I think so.

David Read:
…or was that later?

Joseph Mallozzi:
The two things I remember about the 200th episode party… I believe that was a party …was there was a chocolate fountain. And they–

David Read:
I wonder whose idea that was.

Joseph Mallozzi:
No, it was my idea, actually. I was pleasantly surprised. There was a chocolate fountain, and the studio announced our cancellation. So, it was memorable for all sorts of reasons.

David Read:
Jesus. So, my understanding was that the episode aired, and then we found out the following Monday. So, you guys had had that information going into the back half of the season. Wow. Man, at least you got to–

Joseph Mallozzi:
It’s always bittersweet to be canceled, but it was really the best-case scenario in that unlike Atlantis or Universe, we were afforded the opportunity to write a series finale, which Robert Cooper did with “Unending”.

David Read:
That makes it bittersweet. Otherwise, it just would have been bitter.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes.

David Read:
When you’ve run out of railroad track to put down, and you have no more room to put any more, part of you is like, “OK, what can we do in editing?” And so many shows are like that. Quantum Leap was like that, the original. How can we button this up knowing that we’re not coming back? You guys did have an embarrassment of riches, to be sure. I wanted to check in with you about the obligatory have you heard anything about another Stargate, anything that’s going on…

Joseph Mallozzi:
What have you heard? I’m all ears.

David Read:
A lot of people have been reporting different things. And there’s a lot of– If it is to be all considered factual, it seems like they have some kind of an idea of what they want, but they’re tepid on when to execute it, and so they plan to do something and then they pull it back. I’ve heard everything from a movie, to a TV show, to a movie and a TV show.

Joseph Mallozzi:
That’s exactly… I heard the exact same.

David Read:
But the problem is, the rumors, even if they are fact, they’re churning and churning behind the scenes. So, at a certain point I don’t wanna know until they’ve picked something, because you and I, we’ve gone through this for years watching Stargate decide what– So, at a certain point, just figure it out, make it concrete, and then when GateWorld posts something, I’ll carry it because then I know it’s for sure. It’s not so much whether I wanna believe it or not. They’re trying to figure out what they want, and like so many people in our lives, you don’t know what you want. It’s such a big tapestry. There’s so much to choose from.

Joseph Mallozzi:
You’re right, nobody knows what they want. They could… It sounds kinda crazy, but basically go with what worked in the past. But everyone likes the newer, shinier thing.

David Read:
Because it has lens flares. We had Paul on, Paul Mullie, and his opinion was reset, do something new. And at first I was like, “Huh?” And then the more I thought about it, I was like, “Would it be so bad as long as it didn’t–” I think a lot of the audience has this mindset of, “Well, what I’ve seen, what I love is ‘official’, and anything else would delegitimize what came before.” Is that a fair mindset, or is that taking it too far?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Just between us…

David Read:
And our seventy closest friends.

Joseph Mallozzi:
…and everybody watching. A lot of ideas were bandied about what, between when the show was canceled and today, I guess, in terms of what kind of a creative spin the new series would take. And one that was suggested was this idea that, you cross– You use what has been established, the universe that has been established, to start a new story. So, in this other version it would be one of our characters maybe either Colonel O’Neill or Daniel Jackson, travels to another reality because their original reality has been destroyed, and helps them uncover the gate. And basically it would start a new story and an alternate reality. But the thing that bugs me about that is the problem that I think a lot of fans had with “Morph–” Was it “Morpheus 2?” [sic] The idea that you’re leaving behind the reality that we have already established, fallen in love with, in some cases destroy it to start a new story. Which, I don’t think a lot of fans would be on board with. Certainly not the established fandom. And I think it would just unnecessarily complicate things for new fans as well. I can see the allure of starting fresh, but you’re always walking that fine line between obviously welcoming in new fans in a way that doesn’t overly complicate things, but at the same time not pissing off the established fan base because, if you turn off the established fan base, there will be problems for you down the line, I guarantee.

David Read:
Yeah! And I have a couple of follow-ups to that. It’s been a while since we caught up. Did you see Season Three of Picard?

Joseph Mallozzi:
I have not seen Season One of Picard. I have not seen any Star Trek since Voyager?

David Read:
You effectively turned it off.

Joseph Mallozzi:
I guess so. Just like the Star Wars shows. They’re all different in many ways. I hear Andor is fantastic. But personally, I got off the Star Wars bandwagon halfway through Return of the Jedi when the Ewoks trotted out onto the screen and I was like, “What is going on?” And then George Lucas was like, “Oh, this is always tonally what I was going for.” And I was like, “Really? Did you watch Empire Strikes Back?” And I was soured on the franchise. So basically, I reflect a lot of– I see a lot of response of some longtime Star Wars fans and/or Star Trek fans to the contemporary reworkings of the shows they grew up with. And for me, Star Wars just took a 180-degree turn halfway through Return of the Jedi and lost me. Not to say that none of these shows are fantastic, but it’s like the Star Trek shows, the Star Wars shows, any of the Marvel shows. I love Marvel comics, but I kind of had to tap out at the movies, with the exception of Deadpool, which is, I think, an outlier. But I just, I–

David Read:
It’s its own thing.

Joseph Mallozzi:
For me, they just reach critical mass, to the point where I just can’t. It’s just too much, for me.

David Read:
To be fair, I see absolutely what you’re saying about the Ewoks, and I have a lot of feelings about that, especially when it came to Return of the Jedi, where that film took an unexpectedly less serious turn at a really inopportune time. So, I see where you’re coming from. But Season Three of Picard received critical acclaim, and the fans loved it as well, and it, I think, really wet the whistle of everyone who was wanting a true TNG reunion, where they got them all around that table and pulled it off. And I honestly think that something can be true for Stargate, where they can bring in new characters and new stories, but also acknowledge who came before. So, I think that they could make it work.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Absolutely, that’s the best of both worlds. They can do it. It is possible. And also, a lot of what made Stargate, especially when I think of SG-1 and Atlantis, so great and so successful, was thematically this idea of this found family, whether SG-1 or the Atlantis expedition, or even the Destiny crew, and also tonally, again, I think to SG-1 and Atlantis bring a fun, sci-fi action/adventure, exploration attitude that I find sorely lacking in a lot of contemporary sci-fi. And one of the things that worries me about Amazon doing new Stargate is the idea that it’s gonna be less Stargate and more some other kind of dark sci-fi series that will just feel like more of the same and no longer a special franchise that fans fell in love with.

David Read:
I think that Stargate can do darker, like Universe did, tonally. But it cannot lose its spirit. It cannot lose its humor and its recognition of its place in the pantheon of all of these genre shows out there. When Rick is on screen, he’s winking at you several times throughout this series. “He’s Jaffa.,” “No, but he plays one on TV.” I mean, come on! And so much of that show, Rick, and you guys behind the scenes working in conjunction with the lead, set the tone. And I think that it’s the reason that 17 seasons of the show were so successful. As long as it has that, you can do all kinds of storytelling that sci-fi has open for you.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yep. I agree.

David Read:
The industry has also been doing a little bit of a contraction as well, and I wanted to know how business is going up in Canada. There’s a lot of people very concerned in L.A., and I’ve spoken with several past contributors on Dial the Gate, who were like, “Yeah, I’m working.,” or, “I’m working right now, but I don’t know how much longer I’m going to be.” There’s some concerns there. How are things looking from your neck of the woods?

Joseph Mallozzi:
I will have to say that for many, many years, with the proliferation of streaming, this talk of Peak TV, it was really evident that it was unsustainable, and it would reach that point where things would contract. And it took the strike and a potential recession, “Are we in a recession?” for it to basically kick off, and that’s where we are now. In Canada, I think things have always been dire. I’ll be absolutely honest. The Canadian industry has always been in kind of dire straights, and I think the same two dozen writers work on everything. They just go from show to show. But for the most part, the Canadian industry is incredibly, incredibly tough. I mean, I look at my show, Dark Matter, or Brad writes Travelers. Those were outliers in that we went out, we created our shows. We went out, we sold them in the U.S. We sold them internationally, and then came back and Canada was kind of a final piece of the puzzle. It’s not a situation where you can actually go to a Canadian broadcaster, or rarely go to a Canadian broadcaster and sell a show, unless you’re a former network executive, you’re related to a network executive, or, you know… So, it’s tough. It’s kind of the same way, obviously, in the U.S. It’s all about connections as well, but I’m hearing more and more it’s becoming increasingly difficult to get those green lights, even with packaging. By packaging, I mean you bring on an established director, or sometimes you bring in an established star, and in the past, that would kind of cement a sale. But that’s no longer the case now. It’s uneasy times everywhere, and it’ll be interesting to see how things develop. I know certain streamers would be spending ridiculous amounts of money on productions and not getting back a reasonable return on their investments, and it just reached the point where they realized, “We– This doesn’t make any business sense. We’ve gotta find a way to cut costs.” So, now they’ve gone to the other extreme where they’re really cutting costs and looking for ways to produce content at a very, very low price point.

David Read:
Can I ask you a Dark Matter question?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah.

David Read:
Dark Matter.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Absolutely, of course.

David Read:
In terms of selling the series, how much of… Because it was a live-action adaptation, how much of the original comic was a springboard for you? How was it different than other–

Joseph Mallozzi:
It was all a springboard. The way Dark Matter happened is I had the pilot– I started my career in animation; animation development, and I would always bring in projects and some of the most amazing original content. And my bosses were never interested, but I would bring in the most derivative IP; Intellectual Properties, books or whatever, and they’d be like, “Oh my gosh, we gotta do this.” Again, it’s because it’s an established property, and they think, “Oh, there’s a built-in audience.” So, what I decided to do was… Because I was a big fan of the comic books, I decided to pitch it as a comic book, and I took it to Dark Horse, and I was like, “Hey, look, this is what I’d like to do. I’d like to turn my series into a comic book,” with the thinking that I could tell this… I’ve always been a big fan of comic books. I could tell my story in comic book, and if I sold that as a series, bonus. And I ended up selling it as a series. And so I turned the first two episodes into a four-issue opening arc of the comic book, and then they ended up commissioning the pilot. So, I just went back to the drawer and took out the original pilot and handed that in. So, it very much came out of my idea for this series that frankly, I was spinning in my head for almost, I wanna say, six or seven years while I was working on Atlantis.

David Read:
Wow, OK. I wasn’t completely sure with how many comics had been released. So, four had been released?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah, four issues. It was an opening arc, and that’s really all Dark Horse wanted to do. I was kinda disappointed because I went back to them after the show was canceled and the hope was of continuing the series, but they were not really interested, so–

David Read:
That would have been the way to do it, man. I mean, ’cause you would have already had the look and everything already figured out.

Joseph Mallozzi:
I think one of the reasons they bumped on it is because while we could have continued the original series as envisioned before the series, I really wanted to tell the story that it would pick up after the TV series. But in order to do that, we would have had to use the likenesses of the cast. And once you get into that, then you get into issues.

David Read:
Contracts. Yeah, for sure. Any movement on the front of continuing that story in some form?

Joseph Mallozzi:
I’m at the point now where I think… Creatively, I could very well do it. I have a storyline that picks up 10 years after the events of the Season Three finale and hopefully ties most of everything up in a mini-series. But I think what I would really need to do is get another show off the ground and use the heat of that show to set up a Dark Matter series. So, that’s what’s in the works now.

David Read:
OK, sweet. Are conversations being had?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Conversations are being had about, I think, a half dozen different pilots and scripts that I have out there. Again, I mean, in this business, it’s always a crapshoot. You never know what’s gonna get greenlit, and it’s always what you least expect, and something… it’s the one that you least want to do. I don’t know. We’ll see.

David Read:
It’s like a job interview. It’s like, “I got that one? I didn’t even try for that one.”

Joseph Mallozzi:
It’s crazy because things just happen and then go away. There was a show that I just signed a contract for. We were gonna basically shoot this summer in Portugal, and then things just went dark. And then suddenly, I’ll get… my agent will reach out and he’s like, “Hey, remember that Christmas movie you wrote 15 years ago? Well, CBS is interested, and if you can send us a copy of the script and–”

David Read:
So, be open for everything. Be open…

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes, exactly.

David Read:
…expect the unexpected.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes.

David Read:
You guys spent so many years together in that writer’s room. What were some of the more grueling days in production? From SG-1, Atlantis, Universe, what were some of the longest days?

Joseph Mallozzi:
I think back to spinning stories. Really, that’s where it came down to. The longest days always came down to trying to crack the stories, coming up with a premise, and things not working, and going back to the drawing board, and– The ones that stand out for me are sort of my scripts. So, I will always remember “Ripple Effect” was one story that we broke more or less in the room, but the one twist we couldn’t get was… If you remember “Ripple Effect,” it was, you know, the gate starts… There’s the classic tear in spacetime that ends up depositing various alternate versions of SG-1 into our reality. And there was one version of SG-1 that essentially came to our universe, or reality, in order to… I think, were they gonna steal the ZPM?

David Read:
They were stealing the ZPM to fight the Ori, yeah, from Atlantis.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah. And so there was a point where the good guys end up trapped, and the bad guys take over their ship. And I was like, “How do they turn the tables?” I needed to turn the tables in a way that hopefully was very clever and surprise the audience, and thematically work within the context of the story of this idea of, you know, they’re always thinking one step ahead of us. And so we have to think two steps ahead of them, because they are us. And I remember, I spent three or four days trying to come up with that twist, and it didn’t come to me. And I’m like, “You know what? I’ll figure it out in the outline stage.” And sometimes that happens, where you can’t really figure it out in the room, but you don’t wanna waste any more time, so you’re like, “You know, let me sit with it, and I’ll come up with something.” And so I worked on the outline for two weeks, and I still didn’t come up with anything. I didn’t know what that twist was. I was like, “Maybe I’ll find it in the script.” And I wrote the script, and I don’t know what happened, but magically, it came to me, and I came up with that twist, and it was just kind of a magical moment, a huge magical moment of relief. So, that was one. The other one was an episode called “This Mortal Coil,” Stargate Atlantis. And that one was… I don’t know how much of it we broke in the room, but that one was very tough at the script stage, just because there were so many moving parts. And again, it had to do with an alternate version of our crew, and one of the things that I think I was always criticized for was I would always take the audience’s intelligence for granted, meaning I always assumed the audience, being sci-fi audience, and being fans of the show, were savvy and smart. They were sci-fi savvy, they were smart, and they would be able to figure things out so I wouldn’t have to explain everything to them. And as was pointed out to me, no. I should make things more obvious. I needed to make things more obvious. That’s a note that I would always, always get from the network as well. So, that script was a struggle for me, because I think I must have gone through four or five drafts. And I remember, I think after the fourth draft, the writers solemnly walking into my office, and a downcast Carl Binder, who’s like, “Ah, still a little bumpy.” And I was like, “Ugh,” and the look on my face, I’m sure, told it all. But in the end, I thought that episode actually turned out OK. Although I think the cast and director Andy [sic] hated it. Yes.

David Read:
It’s interesting that you bring up “Ripple Effect,” because oftentimes when I meet people and they ask me what I do, I tell them I work on this podcast for a franchise called Stargate. And they’re like, “Oh, yeah, that’s the one with Kurt Russell and MacGyver.” I said, “Yeah.” One of the things… I talked with Rob Cooper about this fairly extensively a few episodes ago. And a big thing about the audiences who are not familiar with the show or who have gotten into it is, “What is it that the Stargate does?” “Is it a dimensional device? Is it a time device?” A lot of people are like, “Well, when is this set?” “No, you’re crossing space. Not necessarily time.” Part of it was Robert at the beginning of the show, they were trying to establish the rules of what it could and could not do. And so they added the time travel feature in Season Two. But by Season Nine, to add a dimensional paradigm to the device… Was part of you guys like, “Should we even do this? Is this muddying the water a little bit of what this thing can do given the properties that are thrown at it?”

Joseph Mallozzi:
No, because we had essentially done these types of story, these AU types of stories through other means, with the quantum mirror, for instance. So, using the gate seemed to be the most obvious.

David Read:
The quantum mirror had been destroyed.

Joseph Mallozzi:
It’s like any aspect of the show. You establish the base mythology, and then you play within that sandbox. So, in my mind, it was a variation on an established theme.

David Read:
That’s true. But also at the same time, you have to assign more dialog to hang lanterns on things. “What about the entropic cascade failure? Why isn’t that happening?,” “Well, these are closer to reality.” “Why is it just SG-1?,” “Well, they’re the frontline unit.” So, there’s a lot more…

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes, and I was aware of that, I kind of addressed all of that within the script. But one of the things you have to be cognizant of when you write those scripts very early on, is when you create something like entropic cascade failure, you’re severely limiting yourself down the line. So, things like a zat: one zat shot knocks you unconscious, two shots kill you, three shots disintegrate you and also open locks. And then, two seasons later it’s like, “Why don’t they just pick the lock with the zat?” And it’s like, “Mm.” Think about what you’re doing, guys.

David Read:
No, absolutely. And if something disintegrates, what… How much of what it’s attached to disintegrates? The clothes disintegrate. I mean, there are all these little… You wanna remain faithful to the content.

Joseph Mallozzi:
It’s like being out of phase.

David Read:
But their feet still make contact.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Right.

David Read:
That’s one of my favorite lines from “Wormhole X-Treme!,” “Why don’t I fall through the floor?” And they’re all just standing there like– It’s a big problem.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Because we’ve had those conversations. We’ve all been there, right?

David Read:
Of course.

David Read:
What episodes flew off the page? You broke them down, there were no problems.

Joseph Mallozzi:
This is crazy because this was not even my episode, but the one that flew off the page that essentially I broke in the room, I had all the ideas for and then Martin Gero went off and wrote it, was “Harmony”.

David Read:
Really?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes, and it’s a classic Joseph Mallozzi kind of script and I was envious of Martin because it was fun and the spoiled brat and all the twists and turns and everything, and it was just Martin, Carl, and I in the room, and we all, the three of us broke it. But I remember coming up with all the major beats for that one, and I kind of wish I had written it, but Martin did a fantastic job nevertheless. But that was one that really flew for me, just because it was in the groove, and those funnier episodes I always enjoyed more.

David Read:
For sure.

Joseph Mallozzi:
By the way, thinking of another one, you’ll have to ask Rob Cooper for this. One that we didn’t crack in the room was Stargate Universe’s “Time,” which is probably one of my favorite episodes in the franchise…

David Read:
Agreed.

Joseph Mallozzi:
…for the ending. And I remember him coming into the room, he didn’t have the ending. He’s like, “This is kind of what I want to do or where I want to get to, but I’m not sure how to get there.” And we’re like, “I don’t know.” And then he went home and figured it out and came up with an ending that has frustrated and baffled many a fan, and yet at the same time, I think it’s quite brilliant.

David Read:
No, if you think– I love that he hangs it on Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. The trick is… The secret is in the story there. And I remember sitting at home watching it and being, “That’s it? Really? Really?!”

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah, it’s like the Sopranos ending. “Oh, is that what they’re gonna do? Huh!”

David Read:
But the more I thought about it, you really do have all the information. It’s the second of three iterations. And I really wish that the Kino episodes had not put a button on that at the end. I don’t know whose decision that was. I get why it was done. “Hey, we found this Kino and this happened, and oh my God, they look like they had a shitty time and–” But it’s still a heck of a story.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Absolutely.

David Read:
So, “Harmony,” that’s one of those where that may fly off the page and, in terms of blocking and the story and everything else, but if you don’t cast correctly you’re sunk.

Joseph Mallozzi:
And we cast perfectly a 13-year-old Jodelle Ferland who, as I’m fond of telling everyone, knew all her lines, knew David and Joe’s lines, so if ever they would flub their lines, she would remind them in a very cute way. And she was so great that I remembered her, and for Dark Matter I thought she would be perfect for Five, and she absolutely was.

David Read:
I’ve been wanting to get her on the show. She hasn’t responded to our messages.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah, she keeps a very low profile.

David Read:
It’s killing me. I understand her.

Joseph Mallozzi:
She’s actually quite shy. Surprisingly shy.

David Read:
Wow. Well, she’s good. And it was a great twist on an idea when you hear this whiny 13-year-old kid, you’re thinking of a whiny 13-year-old kid from Earth, but this one has actually had an upbringing where she’s actually pretty resourceful. And it keeps on surprising the guys. It’s, “Oh, wait a second. Yeah, she has been trained.” So, that’s really fun. I’ve got some fan questions here for you. And some of these may be repeats from previous conversations. But I really– It’s been a while, so I wanted to catch up with you mainly. Gingers_mom: “Who was your favorite character to write dialog for?”

Joseph Mallozzi:
To write dialog for? Obviously Jack O’Neill. Was quippy and always fun to write for. As a villain, Ba’al, Cliff Simon was brilliant and he was just such a wonderfully stylish villain. I was always a big fan of supervillains, so very much enjoyed writing for him, and then I would probably say Woolsey. Because again, Bob Picardo is brilliant and he’s a character who displays vulnerability through unintentional humor, I guess, in his character. And he was just a character that I loved writing for because I loved redeeming him in the eyes of the audience over the course of the first episode he appeared in to the last. You really grew to love the guy.

David Read:
Well, you understood where he’s coming from.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Or going from disliking the guy to actually liking the guy.

David Read:
And he’s a dog lover, so–

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes, I had to write that in as well. Very important.

David Read:
Did you see the film American Fiction?

Joseph Mallozzi:
I have not.

David Read:
This is a great movie. Jeffrey Wright, John Ortiz, Erika Alexander. The tagline, “A novelist who’s fed up with the establishment profiting from Black entertainment uses a pen name to write a book that propels him into the heart of hypocrisy and madness he claims to disdain.” It’s a great story. You would love it. One of the scenes in it is him writing one of the scenes, and he’s in the room with the characters and the characters are talking. And at a certain point, they stop and they turn to the writer and they’re like, “That doesn’t make sense. I wouldn’t say that.” I’m curious to know, and I’ve had this conversation with a couple of other writers on the show, including Harley Jane Kozak, who has written some novels, how much of what is going on in your brain, while you’re writing, is similar to that? Do the characters ever talk with you to work out a problem? Do you ever encounter them going, “No, I’m not gonna do that,” or some version of that where you have to, where you’re just saying to yourself, “I actually don’t see them saying that given this circumstance?” Has there ever been pushback from an inner monolog?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah. All the time, to be honest with you, because when you’re writing dialog, you’re juggling several things, one which is, what is the point of the scene? What is the information you’re trying to convey? The second thing is, how does the dialog unfurl in a natural way? Basically, when you talk, it’s like a ping-pong match. You’re going back and forth. You’re not just delivering exposition, hopefully. It has to sound very natural, that what you say segues into what she says, segues into what you say. So, you have to find the rhythm, and at the same time, you need it to sound like the voice of these very distinct characters. So, very much it’s like I said, it’s a juggling match. You’re always– I find that the dialog really is the writing process once you’ve got the structure down. And for me, it always comes down to whether I’m in the shower, whether I’m driving, whether I’m out for a walk with my dog–

David Read:
Not thinking about it.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Thinking about it constantly.

David Read:
OK, fine. But occupying yourself with other tasks.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Actually, for some reason, I do my best writing when I’m occupied with other tasks rather than just sitting behind a laptop. So, I’ll run the dialog in my head, and the first two lines, the first three lines, that exchange, then go back and rewrite it in my head, rewrite it in my head, rewrite it in my head until I have more or less the scene. At that point, I will sit down and actually write it out and fine-tune it and ensure that it delivers the information that I need it to deliver, it does so in a conversational manner, and the voices are true. So, you’re constantly doing that.

David Read:
Josh Blu wants to know, Amazon gives you the green light to do the next Stargate. “Would Earth be significantly more advanced at this point behind the scenes based on the Asgard and Ancient knowledge and technology?” What would be the biggest change, you think, 20 years on? Would Destiny have come home? And we can’t pick…

Joseph Mallozzi:
No. Destiny would…

David Read:
We can’t pick the lock on her knowledge.

Joseph Mallozzi:
I don’t love the idea of skipping too far ahead and having a lot of the story that fans have looked forward to throughout the franchise kind of essentially told off-screen. Like, “Oh, by the way, the Stargate program was revealed,” or “Destiny came back and that issue was resolved.” Also one of the things that made Stargate, certainly SG-1, so beloved was the fact that unlike a lot of shows that were set in the far future, it was set in the here and now. It was set in contemporary times. So, I think it also allowed viewers at home to better connect with these very grounded characters. So, if I was gonna do a new Stargate, I would do very much that, what we established in SG-1, obviously in a different way through a Gamma base, or I’m not sure what kind of a premise a new show would have, but I’d keep it contemporary, contemporary characters certainly. And keep it as close to the real world of today as possible.

David Read:
How far away do you think the characters, as we know them in that world, would be from making their own gate network and building their own Stargates? ‘Cause that’s one of the things that I’ve always wanted to see.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Sorry, who?

David Read:
That the show, the characters as we knew them, the reality that you guys created, how far off do you think they were from building their own Stargate network, or was that not–

Joseph Mallozzi:
That’s a good question. It’s not something that we really toyed with, with the exception of the idea of the Midway station where essentially we did kind of do that, joining that network of Pegasus Gates and Milky Way gates to create an almost, or very–

David Read:
We were adapting the technology, for sure. And then you blew it to hell.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes.

David Read:
Which made sense after a while. The thing, one of the genius things that I loved from– And I love the nuts and bolts of why the things work the way they do. Where’s the ZPM factory hidden on Atlantis, things like that. One of the things that I loved about Universe was the seed ships. And I think that it would make sense that there was at least one Milky Way seed ship that was manufacturing these. If they were doing it then with that iteration, they’d be doing it now, and is this thing still around? Is it hiding in an asteroid somewhere? Being able to harness that vessel, if it does exist, a Goa’uld, or whoever who was wanting to dominate and enslave a series of worlds, that would be a way to do it. Do you think the Milky Way had a seed ship or a series of them based on the mythology that you guys created later? Where were these things constructed otherwise?

Joseph Mallozzi:
I wanna say theoretically possible, yes.

David Read:
Paul Brickler, “One of the things that I deeply appreciate about Stargate is your attention to detail about the mythology. Every time I hear some obscure name, I go research and find some ancient tale from Babylon or China. And it’s a lot of fun and usually on point. How much time did you guys spend researching ancient mythology as writers and producers” to springboard into your stories?

Joseph Mallozzi:
It was really story dependent, obviously. And obviously the idea being that these iterations of these gods and goddesses, while they were certainly grounded in that mythology, so the idea being that they would take on the persona of these gods rather than they were those gods that…

David Read:
From history.

Joseph Mallozzi:
…were revered at the time. So, you did your research, but bearing in mind that these were not the originals. These were essentially…

David Read:
The Goa’ulds’ interpretation.

Joseph Mallozzi:
…yes, of them.

Joseph Mallozzi:
So, basically you had creative leeway in terms of what they could and couldn’t do, and their respective pasts.

David Read:
Charlene Anderson, I’m interested if you have a comment for this. You may not, you may be, like, “Everything worked.” “Did you ever write a scene that after it was shot and edited and finalized you were like, ‘It’s not what I envisioned. It’s OK. It gets the job done’?”

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes. It happens a lot. There were always episodes where you look back and you’re like, “Ah, you know what? I wish I had done this differently or had written that differently, or this one would have come out differently.” Honestly, too numerous to mention. I mean, to be honest with you, it’s tough for me to rewatch some of my work. But I think it’s the same for, you know, I’ve seen actors say the same thing where they won’t watch their show. I will end up, obviously, you know, I’m so close to the script and then it goes off, and then I’m watching the dailies and then I’m watching the editor’s assembly, then I’m watching the director’s cut, and then I’m in there and rewatching and rewatching, and editing, and then you have to go into the mix. By that point, you are done with the episode. Even if you enjoy it, you’re kind of sick of it. But more often than not, there’s always something that bugs you about it. And having to see it time and again, it just reaches a point where you’re like, “You know what? I think I’ve seen enough of this episode.” So, absolutely, you’re your own worst critic, and no episode is perfect.

David Read:
The other thing that– I’ve had an interesting time talking with David Hewlett about, and we’ve talked about it a little bit, is cultural perception as we move forward. And what jokes landed then do not work now. Alternate McKay grabs alternate Sam’s ass in “Moebius.” And it’s played for laughs. Whereas now, I don’t even think you guys would have shot that.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Correct.

David Read:
Or if you did, Sam would have responded accordingly. There’s certain things that are of the time in which they were made and…

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah, absolutely.

David Read:
…you can’t anticipate how culture is gonna receive something 50 years down the line. God knows what we have right now that we take for granted that they’re gonna look at with their values and say, “That is not acceptable.” So, absolutely.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah, absolutely. It brings to mind that 200th episode where invisible O’Neill, and even though I wrote the sequence… I did not write the sequence where he’s in the shower, and that was pitched in the room and I’m like, “Guys. This is really creepy.” and they’re like, “It’s funny.” So, I don’t know. And it’s funny because after it aired, the fans were like, “This is funny. This is great. I love this sequence.” I’m like, “Oh, OK.”

David Read:
OK. No, it’s fair. Absolutely. I am amazed, in the fact… I have some friends who are really staunchly anti-… how do I wanna put this? The characteristics that Rodney embodies they don’t appreciate in other men. But they love him, and it’s like, “What’s going on here?” And I think part of it is that they know his spirit and they know what he’s trying to do and they know how damaged, is that a word? They know how dysfunctional he is and they give him some rope.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Really, what you say, they know him. So, over the course of I don’t know how many episodes, they know him and are willing to sort of excuse or overlook some behavior, because they know him at his core as an individual. Whereas essentially nowadays, especially online, you’re reading about someone’s reactions or someone’s actions. And you are reacting to that news without the fuller context of this individual and let’s face it, a lot of the times, no matter what this person or what kind of person it is, their actions are reprehensible. But then there are other times where context would potentially change your opinion of someone.

David Read:
Yeah. Yay, Vader is saved. He went to the light at the end. He killed 50 billion people. So, what? I think for McKay in particular, had it not been for “Redemption 1 and 2” I can imagine, let’s skip “Redemption 1 and 2” from happening and go to, “OK, so we’re gonna replace this character with Rodney McKay.” I’m sure it would have been like, “Guys, this guy’s a jerk. You know, this won’t work unless we have a redemption arc for him.”

Joseph Mallozzi:
That was my reaction. Rob pitched out bringing on Rodney McKay and I was like, “What? Really?” I love David Hewlett, but I didn’t think that was gonna work. Rob and Brad proved me wrong.

David Read:
If you give a character–

Joseph Mallozzi:
And David Hewlett to a certain extent.

David Read:
And Richard Woolsey and Picardo. You make him a dog lover. That’s one huge bonus. But you also show humanity for a character, and leveraging the actor’s performance can make all the difference. Isn’t it nice to prove, if not the audience, your own biases wrong every now and then?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes.

David Read:
So, there’s something that feels good about that. It’s like, “Oh, I can allow people to grow in my perception of them.” If you could show one Stargate episode to a new fan that was created by one of the other writers, which would you pick? Ian wanted to know this. He wanted to know what your favorite episode was to make, but I’m more interested in the other answer.

Joseph Mallozzi:
I go back to “Time.” SGU’s “Time,” that is one of my favorite episodes just because it’s really tough to do time travel. A lot of shows do time travel. In the end, if you gotta squint for it to make sense, not all the time, but a lot of the time. And I thought “Time” was very clever. For SG-1, I always was a fan of “2010,” Brad Wright. Just a classic AU storyline with a very somber ending, which I quite loved. So, those are the two that I would show them.

David Read:
Absolutely. No, I completely see that. Let me see here. JᐰCKScabin [sic], “Is it your opinion that Dark Matter and Stargate share the same reality?”

Joseph Mallozzi:
They do not share the same reality in my mind.

David Read:
OK.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Because if they did, then in the Dark Matter universe, we would undoubtedly have come across some Stargates. Although in my mind, it would have been possible to have the franchises cross over, which was the plan. Actually, I was in talks with MGM shortly after Dark Matter was canceled about doing a potential crossover miniseries.

David Read:
Of realities?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes. Using the Dark Matter Blink Drive. I did have some preliminary conversations about that. But sadly, as happens in this business, it all went away.

David Read:
You never know. You keep those ideas in the back of your head. ‘Cause comic books, a lot of the Star Trek comics that have come out recently, Harlan Ellison got to adapt his “City on the Edge of Forever,” so you never know.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Right.

David Read:
Fabius: “What is your view of AI on story generation?” You and I haven’t talked about the development in AI recently. How are you feeling?

Joseph Mallozzi:
To be honest with you, it’s tough for me to answer because I really don’t have a concept of where AI sits at the moment. Certainly, in the worst case scenario, the AI, they get rid of writers and artists and they have AIs generate everything. Which obviously would be very bad for all concerned. But I don’t see AI getting there anytime soon, especially, I keep on bringing it back to humor. There’s a nuance of humor that I don’t think AI is able to achieve. Certainly not yet. Could AI deliver an average film script or series script, auto-generate something like that? I’m sure it could. Probably wouldn’t be very good.

David Read:
Probably look like Sharknado or Frankenfish or any of these sci-fi movies of the week.

Joseph Mallozzi:
At this point, I don’t think it would be very good. But I think really what I’ve been saying all along is, we all have to worry, but the ones who really have to worry are these studios and the studio executives who basically think that the artist or the writer will become an unnecessary part of the process. Actually, no, if AI becomes something, a tool that people are gonna use, it’s a tool that writers or artists will be able to ultimately use to cut out the middleman. The middleman being the studio and the studio’s executives, we’ll be able to hopefully reach a point where we’ll be able to create our own content and deliver it directly to audiences without the need for a studio to greenlight it or say OK or distribute it for us. So, really, they’re the ones who should be worried.

David Read:
When you’ve got things like Tubi, Pluto TV, you’ve got… I forget the studio that’s always punching out all these documentaries, but if someone likes it, there’s money for them to come and grab it. I think that’s an amazing thing coming for the future. I have a final question for you.

Joseph Mallozzi:
OK.

David Read:
You got a couple minutes?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Absolutely.

David Read:
I talked with Brad years ago, and I asked him about the Stargate Atlantis canceled film, and I said, “Will this conclude The Wraith?” And he said, “This would not have been a conclusion, it would have been an expansion.” Can you elaborate even just a nugget on what he meant by that?

Joseph Mallozzi:
I’m not even sure. Essentially, it would have seen… It was a time travel story that would have seen Atlantis leave Earth, ended up in another galaxy en route to Pegasus, and encounter a civilization that turns out to be… They meet a distant descendant of Teyla. Essentially, the Atlantis story became really the seed of the premise for “Common Descent” in Stargate Universe.

David Read:
Got it.

Joseph Mallozzi:
And it was a lot of fun because I always loved the Todd characters, and as I said, I’ve always been big on redemption. Our Todd becomes this unlikely ally in Atlantis’ bid to sort of escape and return to Pegasus. And at the end, Todd and John actually shake hands, which is kind of very symbolic, and achieve an understanding. So, I guess in that respect, I mean, basically there’s an evolution to that relationship, and what would have come of that, I don’t really know. But it certainly would’ve changed the established quo to a certain respect.

David Read:
Could the Wraith live without feeding on humans?

Joseph Mallozzi:
That would be a toughy. Could you go without burgers?

David Read:
Me personally, no. No. But I mean at some point between the production of Tretonin in Season 6 of SG-1 and Season 10, where it’s beaming onto a ship, they synthesized it. So, it’s just one of those things we have to take for granted. We didn’t need to ground up Goa’uld anymore. So, I guess there’s always possibilities.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Correct.

David Read:
You have a new little boy in your household.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes. Sadly, Sushi, our old gal passed away in September, 18 and 4 months. And then, just because she was so high maintenance, my wife and I, Akemi, we’re never able to travel, and we ended up booking Japan, New York, L.A, and then a month later, Akemi was, “Look, look at this dog sitting in the Pug Nation of L.A, this puggle.” Sadly, no eyes. He was seven or eight. His eyes were badly infected. He ended up losing his eyes.

David Read:
Aww.

Joseph Mallozzi:
So, we ended up– Where’s Sharky? Here, I’ll bring him over here. You can find him on Instagram @heysharkyhey. Here he is. Here’s our boy.

David Read:
Aw, hello, Sharky.

Joseph Mallozzi:
He is very much a mama’s boy.

David Read:
Aw, he’s so sweet.

Joseph Mallozzi:
And it’s kind of funny. Whenever he’s out for a walk, even though he can’t see, if he hears a woman’s voice, he’ll always stop and sit beside her…

David Read:
Aww.

Joseph Mallozzi:
…until she pays attention.

David Read:
He’s so beautiful.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yes, he’s a good boy. Very, very affectionate, especially again, with mom.

David Read:
Aw, thank her for me, please.

Joseph Mallozzi:
He’s got the big ears.

David Read:
Aw, he’s so sweet.

Joseph Mallozzi:
The big floppy ears. We did a DNA test because I was gonna be curious to see what he would be. And we sent him away to this place called Embark.

David Read:
That’s great.

Joseph Mallozzi:
And that’s what it’s called, yeah. And we got the results, and it was 92.5% pug and 7.5% unresolved. And they said, “Maybe it’s a Pekingese. Maybe it’s Cocker Spaniel.” And I was, “I’m very dissatisfied with the service.”

David Read:
What?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Usually, you wanna send out your DNA, you wanna know. I don’t need guesses. I mean, I could guess. I could say, you know, Beagle maybe, you know, Basset Hound. Yeah, I don’t know.

David Read:
You just put him down in front of food and water? Does he know his way around? Does he have a map in his head?

Joseph Mallozzi:
Yeah, yeah. He took a week to map the place, and…

David Read:
Like a Roomba.

Joseph Mallozzi:
…he would always walk around, knock into things.

David Read:
Aww.

Joseph Mallozzi:
He still does it, and my wife is always, like “Ohh!” when she hears them. She’ll be in the other room, and she’ll hear a conk, and she’ll be like, “Ohh.” It breaks her heart. But, you know, he’s got a hard little noggin, so–

David Read:
Dogs are the best people, man.

Joseph Mallozzi:
They are.

David Read:
Joe, thank you for celebrating 250 episodes with me. This was great.

Joseph Mallozzi:
My pleasure. Let’s do this again in 50 or so episodes.

David Read:
I’ll have you back for sure, brother.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Excellent.

David Read:
You take care of yourself.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Thanks, dude.

David Read:
Any Stargate news, we’ll have to keep each other in the loop.

Joseph Mallozzi:
All right, done.

David Read:
Be well, sir.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Take care.

David Read:
Joseph Mallozzi.

Joseph Mallozzi:
Bye, everybody.

David Read:
Thank you. Joseph Mallozzi, writer and executive producer of Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, and Universe. This was a great hour, and I really hope you guys enjoyed. Jakub Olejarz: “Is Beau Bridges on the cards for an interview?” I invited Beau a few years ago, and he politely declined. So, he’s getting up there in age. I don’t blame him. There’s a chance I could be in L.A. later this year. If I’m there in person, we could check, see if it’s possible maybe to do something with Christopher Judge, someone that Beau knows, maybe we could do something. But as for right now, he’s declined. When we had Stargate Command, Chris did an interview with Beau and Ben Browder at Beau’s house, and I don’t think that they’ve posted it to the YouTube channel, which is a shame because it was a really good episode. One of the stories that Ben shared about Beau in terms of forcing cuts in a shot was taken from that interview. And I asked Ben to retell that for 249 when we had him on last week, but you never know. We may get him. But it’s very important to me that especially the older cast come on and have their say if they’re willing to provide it. We have a huge list of episodes coming your way for this season on Dial the Gate, if I can get my act together here. Season Three and Four AI concept arts, or AI arts, developed by Adam Cahill is gonna be airing tomorrow at 10:00 AM Pacific Time. Gildart Jackson, who played Janus, is gonna be joining us for a midweek episode live Wednesday, May the 29th at 12 noon Pacific Time. Rainbow Sun Francks is gonna be hosting an episode of Stargate Trivia live Saturday, June the 1st. I’m hoping to have, depending on David Hewlett’s schedule, him and Kate Hewlett here on June the 2nd. I’ll keep that information coming when I have more information. Retro-Badger is joining us for another episode of Stargate Ship Battles. We had a whole bunch of Asgard ships going at one another, and their enemies. And then Jeff Gulka is gonna be joining us on June the 9th for a live playthrough, Jeff “Reetou Charlie” Gulka of Stargate: Timekeepers, Episode One. Armin Shimerman, Anteaus in Stargate SG-1, is gonna be joining us live Saturday, June the 15th at 12 noon Pacific Time. And I’m hoping that we’ll have a special guest accompanying me to ask him some questions. This one’s really gonna be one about getting to know Armin a little bit better. We had such a great time with him talking about Shakespeare and the things that he loves, and he wanted to come back, and it’s like, “Hey, it’s Quark. Absolutely we’ll sit down for another hour with you.” So, I was really privileged to have him consider coming back, and so we’re gonna do that with him. And then Christina Cox, who played multiple roles in Stargate, she was T’akaya, she was Anne Teldy in “Whispers,” she’s gonna be joining us live Saturday, June the 22nd at 12 noon Pacific Time. We’ve got a few more scheduled pending as you go further down this list, but if you wanna keep an eye on what’s going on, do it at dialthegate.com because we’ve got a lot of episodes coming your way. I really appreciate everyone who has tuned in to this episode. This was a big deal for me to reach this number. It couldn’t have been possible without my moderators, Sommer, Tracy, Antony, Jeremy, and Marcia. You guys are the best. If you enjoyed this episode and you wanna see more content like this on YouTube, click the subscribe icon. It really makes a difference and helps our show grow its audience. Please also consider sharing this episode with a Stargate friend, and if you wanna get notified about future episodes, click subscribe, and if you click the bell icon, we will notify you the moment a new video drops, and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes. ‘Cause sometimes they do cancel last minute. And clips from this live stream will be released over the course of the next few weeks on both the Dial the Gate and GateWorld.net YouTube channels. Once again, we are going to be having an exclusive panel for Stargate’s 30th anniversary. It’s gonna be the Stargate Anniversary 30th Fan Celebration at San Diego Comic-Con this summer. And more information will be available soon, as soon as we get the word from Comic-Con International to discuss that. So, I’m really excited. My tremendous thanks to Joseph Mallozzi. My thanks to Brice and EagleSG for my graphics. Matt Wilson, EagleSG, he did that beautiful shot of Destiny at the start of the episode and is responsible for all of our cool spaceships this season. So, I really cannot do the show without these guys. And Frederick Marcoux at ConceptsWeb, my archivists. 250 did not happen just because of me. It happened because of a huge group of people who helped me pull this show off week in and week out. So, thank you so much to my whole team. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate, and I’ll see you on the other side.