We are pleased to welcome the return of Tor Valenza to explore more stories from “Point of View” and “Past and Present” to “Urgo” and “Divide and Conquer!”

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Timecodes
0:00 – Splash Screen
0:43 – Opening Credits
1:14 – Welcome
1:28 – Guest Introduction
1:40 – Welcome back, Tor!
2:32 – Naming “Urgo”
5:40 – Getting Dom Into the Show
6:34 – The Idea for Urgo
8:46 – Urgo’s Popularity
10:39 – Collaborating to Make a Show
12:05 – Taking Credit
15:15 – Togar’s Frog Creature
16:48 – Accurate Renderings in Concept Art
18:40 – “Point of View”
20:57 – Harsh Story-Breaking Sessions
23:05 – Bottle Shows Can Be More Impactful
27:15 – “Past and Present”
30:12 – Is the Nature of Linea Still Inside?
32:38 – Consistently Writing Each Day
35:50 – “Divide and Conquer” — A Polarising Episode
39:47 – They Blew Away Martouf
41:10 – Shows Which Breed Conversation
42:12 – Killing Cast Members
44:59 – Za’tarc Weapons: Dead Giveaway for Za’tarcs?
47:28 – Season Arcs Touched in Tor’s Stories
50:48 – Wizard of Oz References
52:58 – Tor’s Favorite Media
59:01 – Probably True Solar
1:02:16 – Thank You, Tor!
1:04:19 – Post-Interview Housekeeping
1:05:58 – End Credits

***

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TRANSCRIPT
Find an error? Submit it here.

David Read:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Episode 275 of Dial the Gate: The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I really appreciate you being here for this one, and I’m happy and privileged to welcome back Tor Valenza, writer and senior story editor for Stargate SG-1. Sir, welcome back to the show. Thank you for coming back around. How you doing?

Tor Valenza:
Thanks again for having me on, and I hope everybody can forgive my bad memories, but I’m gonna do my best to–

David Read:
We totally understand. It’s been a while since the show has aired. But there’s just… I’m continually surprised that people continue to… And surprised probably is not the right word. I shouldn’t be surprised, but I’m gratified to continue to see that its audience continues to grow after all this time. Certainly not everyone sticks around, but others…

Tor Valenza:
Thanks to you guys. And definitely, these conversations help, and I’ll bet you you’ll have questions that actually make me reach back and try to give you the right answers about things. I did find something in an old journal. Some of the stuff that–

David Read:
Really?

Tor Valenza:
Yeah. From last time about “Urgo,” which was interesting. Some of the files were corrupt, so I wasn’t gonna get that. But “Urgo,” the name was originally– As a story editor, senior story editor, whatever, they just hire you as a pitching machine. They want you to throw things up against the wall and see what sticks. And one of the things that I came up with, where “Urgo…” So, I borrowed “Urgo” from this earlier pitch for the Dom DeLuise version of “Urgo,” but was where SG-1… And I could see Dom DeLuise sort of playing this. But they go to a town, and they’re looking, it’s kind of a barter town. It’s like, it’s like super, super, super commerce-y. And there’s this hawker guy who has some kind of Goa’uld technology that Teal’c says, “This is good stuff. We could learn from this. You should buy this.” And of course, it’s a lot of haggling. And finally, Sam goes in there and says, “OK, what do you want for this?” And he looks at her, and he says, “I want your fray.” Or something like that. It was some kind of weird– And Teal’c goes, “I don’t know what a fray is.” And he says, “Oh, you won’t miss it.” It’s fine. And it’s just such valuable technology that they come to a deal. They get it, they bring it back to the thing, but now they have to give the fray, and they think that it’s some kind of other weapon that they have or something like that. And it’s Sam’s fertility. Because his wife– And so, there’s this moral dilemma of, a bargain is a bargain. And you’ve done this, and so somehow there’s some kind of technology that’s gonna transfer, again, her eggs to his wife’s eggs. And this makes sense for me because at the time my wife and I were going through in vitro fertilization. So, it was like that kind of thing. Anyway, they thought that doesn’t work. But I liked the name Urgo for this bargainer guy, and it kind of seemed like it could have been Dom DeLuise-ish in a more evil kind of manner. I’m not sure–

David Read:
Dom could have played that part as well.

Tor Valenza:
Yeah. Anyway, a little bit of “Urgo” history, at least in the name, and then the other iteration came up later.

David Read:
Whose idea was it to get Dom into the show? Was that your thought?

Tor Valenza:
No. Peter DeLuise, again, of course, was always part of the show, and had always been saying, “Yeah, I’ve asked my dad and he said he’d be up for it for the right story.” And the next iteration that I came up with, with him being this, then it became the imaginary friend episode. And he sparked to that. And I was told that and I was going, “Really? He wants to do mine?” And that was really exciting for me. And I don’t know if I still have it, but anyway, he signed one of his cookbooks for me. And that was very nice.

David Read:
Absolutely. Where was the original– Was the original nugget for “Urgo,” nugget, pardon the pun, the little thing in his head, the imaginary friend idea, or did it come from tagging animals in the wild? Where did this kind of swim in?

Tor Valenza:
It originally was, again, when I’m looking back at my journals about all this stuff, it definitely was just shooting things against the wall. And you have to imagine that when I’m in this space, it’s just like free writing, right? And so, things just, 10 ideas come up in one paragraph. And what is in this journal that I found was the teaser alone, so the teaser which pretty much stayed in place, they see this beautiful planet and they go, “OK, yeah, let’s go there.” And they immediately come out and then they go, “What happened?” And he says, “You’ve been gone for…” and everybody liked that idea. Now what? What happened in that space? And they said, “Well, they’ve got to be infected with something. That was obvious to all of us.” And then the imaginary friend idea just sort of came in, and I think I was less… Originally, I was trying to be more serious about it. It was more of mind control type of– evil mind control. And I think Brad and Robert both said, “No, this should be a comedic one. This could be for Dom.” And so, it’s like, “Oh, you want comedic? I can do comedic, at least my version of comedic.” And I did, yeah.

David Read:
This is regularly up there with Window of Opportunity and one or two others in terms of what people consider to be the best of Stargate SG-1. I’m not gonna speak for everybody. Not everyone likes the comedy edge, but I would say 90, 95% of fans do, especially when you have a terrific actor. And when you have a terrific actor that melds with the part, it’s gold. Were you on set when Dom was on set? Did you get to go down and watch filming?

Tor Valenza:
No, not that much. I did, he came up to the office a lot where I was working on my next stuff, but again, this isn’t, as a story editor and everything else, and I’m glad I wasn’t because it would have hurt. I think I mentioned this in our last session together, but you write your draft and I think, in terms of the plot, that was my draft. That was everything in my draft. Then the executive team kind of punches it up and they put in their own jokes and things like that. But then, as I said, unfortunately, Dom couldn’t memorize his lines.

David Read:
So, he’s riffing.

Tor Valenza:
So, yeah. So, he kept improvising all these things often, and so all my jokes went out. He replaced them with his different kitschy and different kind of jokes, but I liked my jokes, and for the plot stuff. That’s not to say, I think I also mentioned this last time that making a TV show or a film, or even a video game, is just so collaborative. And the combination just comes together, and a lot of times it works and a lot of times it doesn’t work. In this case, it really worked for a lot of people. And some, like you said, probably think that, “Oh, this was just a sitcom, or just vaudeville.”

David Read:
I can… Go ahead.

Tor Valenza:
I was saying in some cases it is, but that’s the process and that’s what you have to… There’s a famous line, I think it was Hemingway or Fitzgerald who said, “You’ve gotta be able to kill your darlings.” And sometimes you have to do that. So, when I saw the dailies coming back and what it was, I was like, “That’s not our lines.” And when I say our lines, I mean, it was all what was on the script, what was on the final script, which everybody had approved and he had approved and everything else. But that’s just the way it was. He just made it work, which was great. He made it work in his own way. He made the plot, he did the lines enough to make the plot still … what the plot was.

David Read:
I have had conversations with writers who have come on, and we’re dancing around what is ultimately, if I’m gonna boil it down, yes, my name is on it, but a lot of the things you’re talking about, I take credit for it on the screen, but I didn’t come up with. Because by the time it got to this point, it’s a collaborative art. And then you have someone as incredible as Dom who comes in, there are certain things that you’re not gonna be able to compete with. He’s there delivering, and it’s undeniably great, but it’s not what was written. And I can understand that.

Tor Valenza:
There’s another level to that of what’s in your head. Even with the regular cast, you expected them to say the line in a certain way in your head. You’re hearing their voices in your head, and they deliver things. And they’re actors, so they deliver them in very different ways. Sometimes better, sometimes not as better in your head. But it is what it is, and that’s their craft, and so they have to interpret it. And as a screenwriter, unless you’re the director, you’ve gotta let that go. When you’re the writer-director, then definitely, things are gonna, you’re gonna have more influence that way. And when you’re the writer-director-producer, even more so. But then again, a star’s a star, and I would say that Richard Dean Anderson, in my two years there, was very collaborative. But when he said no, he meant no, and he was an executive producer, so he could. Did you interview him? Did you get him on–

David Read:
Rick is very selective about whom he communicates with. So, I have met him and talked with him on multiple occasions. But I think frankly, the granularity at which we go at this would scare him off. ‘Cause he’s much broader strokes. He was there to have a good time, make some quality entertainment and that was what it was. But that doesn’t make him like a sci-fi fan per se. So, I’ve gotta respect that. One of my favorite lines from the entire franchise is in this episode, and I’ve gotta ask you, was this an ad lib or was this one of yours when Doc Fraiser asks, “What does he look like?” And Jack says, “A famous tenor.” I mean, that is so funny.

Tor Valenza:
No, that was not in my original script. That was definitely something of, “Let’s put Peter in there and that’ll be great.”

David Read:
Geez. Any more memories from that particular episode? The creature design, the little guy, the frog under the glass. There was some really cool visual effects in this one.

Tor Valenza:
And in a way that came from… I don’t know if that came from… And things meld together, but– I remember before I moved up to Vancouver, I was pitching “Holiday,” which was before called The Imbroglio, and that’s the body-switching one. Which we talked about before. And originally that was supposed to be, basically, either Daniel or Teal’c or Rick switched into a frog of some sort. And it’d be an animated frog because they said, “Don’t think about budget. Don’t think about anything.” Just do that. And I thought, “OK, what if it’s an animated thing and it’s a talking frog?” I don’t know if that little seed turned into that frog or not later. Maybe. At the time, made it an alien creature, and that was it.

David Read:
The concept art for it is really cool and almost exactly what it was in the final product. When they really take a swing at it, one end can respond to the other end in terms of production. Yes, we can do exactly that. There’s a lot of carryover. I find that production rarely creates something that goes to waste. There’s an episode, I think it was that, um… Gosh, for heaven’s sake, my 41-year-old brain is starting to cause me trouble here. There’s an episode, the “Spirits” episode that Heather Ash did, and in the concept art, you got the creatures with the gills.

Tor Valenza:
Actually, I wrote “Spirits.”

David Read:
You wrote “Spirits?” Then why am I doing that? Gosh, sorry, man. I apologize. Gosh, you did write “Spirits.” That’s correct. I apologize. I was talking with Christina Cox, and that’s, I was, “I knew I spoke with a woman about this.” So, I apologized to her. The creature with the gills, that was actually from a previous episode that was done called “The Gamekeeper.” And they did the prosthetics for your episode, so they carried that over…. So, a lot of that happened.

Tor Valenza:
I’m amazed at what they created from scratch, and I think I showed you that I have… They gave me the design for the totem pole.

David Read:
Yes, exactly.

Tor Valenza:
We framed it. We’re gonna have that.

David Read:
My apologies. That is such a flub. Jeez, man.

Tor Valenza:
And you call yourself a fan.

David Read:
I know. I’m beginning to lose it.

Tor Valenza:
There’s only 10 seasons’ worth of episodes, so–

David Read:
350 franchise episodes, so… “Point of View,” we had already done… It’s Stargate’s version of a mirror universe episode. But in this case, we have an actual mirror called a quantum mirror. So, we’ve done some alternate dimension, alternate reality stories before. This thing was brought back for the quantum mirror for this episode in “Point of View.” What can you tell me about this original idea? In this case, we’re not going to another place. Someone else is coming to us, and that’s an interesting twist.

Tor Valenza:
What I can tell you about that, again, is very brief memory, is that we had a hole. We had a big gaping hole because of some script either died from a freelancer or whatever. Maybe MGM didn’t like it. Whatever it was, it was something that had to be completely rewritten, and we just decided, “OK, we’ve gotta come up with something from scratch and write something in 48 hours.” And so, everybody was brought in to just hammer out the plot of it, and so that’s why I got story credit, was ’cause I was part of that brainstorming session. But the whole staff was there trying to work it out, and I can’t remember what my contribution was, honestly. But it was very generous for them to say, “OK, story by,” and they put all the current writers in there. And then Brad and… I think it was Brad and Robert or, no, Brad and–

David Read:
Brad and Jonathan.

Tor Valenza:
Brad and Jonathan, just–

David Read:
And Robert.

Tor Valenza:
Did Robert get to write it with them?

David Read:
Yeah, he did. Jonathan, Brad, and Robert. I just went and checked. Yup.

Tor Valenza:
Yeah. So, they just hammered it out, and they took different acts and melded it all together, and then the magic happened. So, yeah.

David Read:
The amount of labor that goes into creating just one story in some cases. I’ve had Joseph Mallozzi on where there were, “We would have sessions and sessions trying to crack this one idea, and we’re not getting it.” And then all of a sudden, boom, something happens where it’s like, “Now we’ve got it.” And you’re just spinning and spinning and spinning, and in some cases rather traumatizing trying to find an in that’s going to make an idea work. And until you get it, you’re in it, you’re in free fall waiting for the right grasp of a ledge to come out so that you can cling to this story and start pulling yourself up. It’s a lot of work.

Tor Valenza:
It’s even more pressure when you actually have to start something the following week for everybody, I mean, in other words, the staff. So, that’s why I believe we made it mostly a bottle episode, meaning that it was gonna be mainly on the Stargate sets, and because, again, OK, well, now we don’t have to worry about locations, and we can just do it right here. I just remember it was a really high-pressure situation for us to come up with this script story because nobody starts without the script. And we didn’t have… We had zero and it had to start production in two weeks or something like that. So, yeah. Or it didn’t happen.

David Read:
Under what circumstance? I guess, things fall out with another idea, it just doesn’t work anymore, they have to throw it in the bin?

Tor Valenza:
Like I said, we may have been… I don’t remember the exact circumstance. All I remember is that suddenly there was a hole. The script that we thought was gonna be there …

David Read:
Wasn’t anymore.

Tor Valenza:
… could not be there anymore, and we just had to start from scratch or does somebody have anything that’s ready to go, and nobody did, so, we all got together.

David Read:
I think that it’s so extraordinary how so many of these episodes that are done for legitimate cost saving purposes become such remembered shows. Like, “OK, we’ve got this story that’s gotta happen in the next couple of weeks here. We can’t go off site for this. We have to shoot it in the studio.” And “Point of View” is one of those that’s remembered as one of the higher caliber, in my opinion, in any fans’ estimation. And to hear that we were flying by the seat of our pants for this one for a little bit until we dialed it in, it was a last-minute addition. You wouldn’t expect that, but that’s the way production works.

Tor Valenza:
But look at the elements of it. Sam and, um, Rick–

David Read:
Kowalsky and–

Tor Valenza:
No. Rick. Were married in the alternate universe. That that’s definitely gonna be something that everybody’s been wanting, and everything else. You had that drama to it. So, it was a perfect way to create that soap opera tension of it. And especially with him being dead in the alternate universe, there’s gonna be the tension of, “In our universe, it’s a…” So, as both a writer and a fan, I’m glad that they never truly consummated that. And they teased it all the way for as long as they could.

David Read:
There’s an Air Force component to it, because she’s under his command. But also, as an audience member, there’s a certain desire for payoff at some point, because I would think, as a writer, it would be, “OK, how long can we really sustain this, without making the audience bored silly.” Well, nothing’s gonna happen as long as she’s under his command, they can’t.

Tor Valenza:
Again, it’s one of those things where they pulled it off in an artistic, satisfying way enough. You gotta have that frustration. At the same time, people can’t roll their eyes at it either. So, again, great acting, as usual. And the situation of them not breaking the regulations. It holds true, especially for Sam. But I think there was also that idea of, we want the Sam character… Not we, not we, but I think MGM and Brad and Jonathan didn’t want her to turn into the love interest. They wanted her to always be a team member. And so, if you had that dynamic that was permanent, and even if they got divorced or whatever, it just would turn into another show.

David Read:
Whatever was good for Jack should be good for Sam. Sam shouldn’t be just one note. That’s not why she’s there. She’s there for a host of reasons, none the least of which is exposition and skill.

Tor Valenza:
Absolutely, for all those reasons. But I think that was a really strong choice on their part, ’cause I think the conventional way would have been that eventually they get together. And maybe they do in an alternate universe, but not permanently.

David Read:
Absolutely. “Past and Present,” Linea is one of my favorite villains from the entire franchise. And they had a great actress, Bonnie Bartlett, who came in in Season Two to play her. We’ve had Bonnie on twice. To bring her back in a manner that was subversive, as I, this audience member here, was very unexpected, and threw a curveball at it. What can you tell me about “Past and Present?”

Tor Valenza:
What I can tell you is that they wanted to bring back Linea. For sure. They thought she was a great character. And they wanted to do it in– This was one of the scripts that was a big struggle for me. Honestly. And I did my three drafts of it, and then I think Brad took over and finished it. But it was really tough to get the right balance. I was very plotty about it in terms of– And I liked the moral issue of, well, she’s a different person now. But what they wanted more of, and which I couldn’t deliver in my drafts, was the love story between–

David Read:
Ke’ra and Daniel.

Tor Valenza:
Daniel. Yeah. And Linea. And because he had just– was mourning over Sha’re, and they wanted that thing. And yeah, I just couldn’t pull it off. It was not working. And the muses weren’t talking, and so they definitely layered that in. But the beginning, middle, and end structure of it is mine. But all that part, and the back and forth, and then the end was completely– My end was completely rewritten, and if I remember correctly, again, because I couldn’t solve that and they had to solve it in a way that was on the base and all these other things. That’s all I can tell you from that.

David Read:
Can we explore the nugget of the idea a little bit here? Because I think what’s fascinating about this episode is that it suggests, or it asks, the question, can the nature of a person truly change when they’re reset to a certain point in their mind? In this case, you have a memory wipe. And the question is, is the nature of Linea, this destroyer of worlds, this genocidal maniac, still in there?

Tor Valenza:
And she seemed to be helping and all. And that was maybe my problem was that I was too willing to accept that. In other words, I accepted the good Linea a lot more than the guys wanted me to accept it. I think that debate was muted because that was the perspective of how I was making Daniel fall in love with her, again, she’s a completely different person. And it may have gotten repetitive. I just remember having the meetings with the guys and it’s, “No, it’s not there yet. I don’t really believe he’s in love with her.” And I said, “Well, I’m just trying,” and– Again, 24 years ago. Forgive me. I just remember being very frustrated by this one. And that concept, of course. I think we all want to change. Interestingly, when I look back at some of the journals that survived here, a lot of the same issues that I was dealing with personally in my writing life, I’m still dealing with today. I think there’s still those things about procrastination and stuff like that.

David Read:
So, many of us are guilty of that, that’s for sure. Right?

Tor Valenza:
Yeah. As a writer, you can’t. I think everybody can see my solar panel there. So, I’ve got my podcast, Probably True Solar Stories. And I really should be writing every day to create new episodes, but I create seasons because I’d rather write a bunch of things first and then record them. But that means I have to write every freaking day. And consistently. And I think really that is the key to a lot of things in life, is consistency. Whether you feel like it or not, you just have to do it as a practice. And whether you succeed or fail, next day you gotta do it again.

David Read:
Stephen King always talks about 2,000 words a day. And he has a certain time of the day where he just locks himself away. It’s in the morning for him and he just hammers them out. And there are some people who have the discipline, he especially did when he was a smoker, he really could do it. And then he found that when he lost that, it wasn’t so easy. But trying to strike that balance and get into the rhythm, and just accepting the reality that the muses, they’re gonna come. We can rewrite later. Some people have a method.

Tor Valenza:
Neil Gaiman, another prolific writer, also says his method is that he sets a time, and in a place, and he can do one of two things. He can do nothing, literally just sit there and not type, or he can write. And he can’t check email; those are the only two things he’s allowed to do between a certain time. And he says his mind just gets so bored doing nothing that he just, but that also is a little bit of a discipline, in order to not reach your hand over and check your email.

David Read:
Your phone.

Tor Valenza:
Check your phone or anything else like that.

David Read:
He’s putting himself in prison.

Tor Valenza:
It sort of is–

David Read:
So, you have two options.

Tor Valenza:
You have two options. You can start– And he doesn’t have a, apparently, I don’t know if this is still true, but at least he writes everything handwritten in his first draft. And then his second draft is transferring back to typewriter or whatever, the computer.

David Read:
The computer, which he does himself. There’s something to be said for the pace of handwriting. My hand gets sore very quickly. It’s probably just lack of practice. But there is something to be said for that velocity which, by the time that it reaches the pen or the pencil, a lot of the errors are straightened out in your mind in terms of untangling the threads as they move forward into the writing utensil. But yeah, I suppose there’s a method for that that some people find preferable. That’s wild. “Divide and Conquer.” One of the most divisive shows. The most polarizing of its time. GateWorld wrote at least one article about the fact that, like, 50% of fandom hated it and 50% of fandom loved it. It was the most polarizing show of the day.

Tor Valenza:
Uh-oh.

David Read:
And I think it’s brilliant to have an episode that will do that to a fandom, cleave it in two, because you’re making people feel something. That’s praiseworthy. Tell me what you can about “Divide and Conquer.” I love this show.

Tor Valenza:
Thank you. This one, again, was one of those where I wanted it to be definitely this mystery kind of thing. So, it started out as there’s a mole in SG-1. That was the log line. Somebody is a spy.

David Read:
A Goa’uld spy.

Tor Valenza:
A Goa’uld, exactly. And with the intent of not only giving information, but also eventually being a time bomb of some sort. So, that was the nugget, the general thing. And my first drafts were very much in that: who’s the spy, and we’re narrowing it down. We do narrow it down and everything. And the Za’tarc technology, I think came more from the guys. They said, “We gotta make this more technical. We’ve gotta make this more…” That became more and more important. And then they added the political dynamic as well. For me it was purely: who’s the bad guy, and why, and how did this happen. That was the initial thing. And then they added the extra layer of, “Let’s go back to–”

David Read:
Martouf?

Tor Valenza:
No, not Martouf, but the episode that it refers to.

David Read:
Yes. So, this was just after “Upgrades.”

Tor Valenza:
And they said, “What if they had a missing memory, and that’s what they’re lying about?” So, for me it was very one-dimensional in the beginning: they’re not lying. And yet they’re being called out as being the spies, and we can’t tell why. And they added that extra dimension, I don’t know, by the executive staff. I can’t say whether it was Brad or Robert or–

David Read:
So, the romance dimension of it, being subversive about their feelings, came later. Interesting.

Tor Valenza:
So, that got added into it. Again, I think that’s part of the brilliance and frustration of, and why people love and hate it, is because it’s one of more of those things where you see those two in love and can’t do anything about it.

David Read:
I can tell you a big part of the reason of the contention.

Tor Valenza:
Go ahead.

David Read:
They blew away Martouf.

Tor Valenza:
That’s another–

David Read:
Martouf was a fan favorite. Was it your idea to bring him in? Did that come later? Was it your idea to knock him off? That is a bold one.

Tor Valenza:
I honestly can’t remember that. I would say that that’s probably their idea. Because I would never kill off a character. As a lowly senior story editor, I could not kill off a character. So, if they did that, then they had a reason. But people in Stargate come back all the time, in different ways. So, you never know if there’s gonna be a Martouf twin or whatever, which never happened, but–

David Read:
He, JR, was scheduled to come back for Season Five in a two-parter called “Summit” and “Last Stand,” and he was unable to due to scheduling. So, they brought in Courtenay Stephens who had recently been in the previous episode and to kind of play the role of the host for Lantash. And Lantash, the symbiote, did survive. That’s one of those episodes where it’s, there’s something to be said for a show that breeds conversation in and of itself because the events are so electrifying. And to have this idea of what does an alien lie detector look like? And can it have similar issues to ours? In this case, you can’t necessarily rely on its output. In this case, this person is a Za’tarc. No, what if they’re misinterpreting the question? Which is ultimately what that comes down to. The facts are one thing, the emotions are another, and it’s detecting both. Which was the cool thing about that.

Tor Valenza:
And again, I can’t take credit for that. But it was one of those wonderful collaborations. That’s how it happens, and I think the casting was great. And for whatever reason, this didn’t happen in this instance, but when an executive producer, or when a cast member isn’t liked at all, killing them is in some ways the end of their relationship with this. So, I don’t know if anything happened with JR or whatever, but it’s a bold move, if you don’t want this character coming back. And sometimes it isn’t a relationship thing, like, “Oh, this guy’s too difficult to work with,” which– My sister’s first husband was a character on a soap opera in the U.S. called The Bold and the Beautiful for a while, and he was a French guy and he was gorgeous and everything else, but he was so difficult to work with to the staff that they made sure that they killed him off, and it was like, “Yes, the DNA, it’s confirmed. This guy is dead. He’s not coming back.”

David Read:
No way back.

Tor Valenza:
No way back. But then there are characters, I think, that we use enough times, and I just don’t see it growing anymore, so I think it’s time to say goodbye. And that could have been the case here. I don’t know if they know… if you, in your research, you found out. I’m just saying that this is in a general way why characters, or the two reasons why. Either they’re hated, or they don’t wanna be, in the case of Jack, I mean, Richard Dean Anderson, he just wanted to go off and do something else or go back to LA So, there were all these little behind-the-scenes reasons for characters to– I personally don’t know the reason why they killed Martouf.

David Read:
The broader implication is that we are at war with a nefarious enemy, and you need to raise the stakes in your show as well. And occasionally you need to kill people like Dr. Fraiser and like Martouf to show that, yes, there are stakes. And I think that based on my research and what I’ve been told, that’s really where that comes from.

Tor Valenza:
Good. I did not know that. And also, by the time it went into production, I had moved back to LA.

David Read:
Ah, yes. Very good.

Tor Valenza:
So, a lot of those things were all changed back then.

David Read:
One of the last things that I wanna bring up is a sticking point in terms of story. You’ve got these potential Za’tarcs running around, and the show never really clarifies this, and I’m curious to know if you have a comment on it. Why don’t you just check the people that have the Za’tarc ring to, “Ah, that must be the Za’tarc because he’s got a gun.” Was there a point in the story development that’s, “Well, does this thing, does this thing appear out of, built from some of the molecules of his body into a weapon?” While just before his mission begins, just before he’s activated, where does this device that he’s gonna use to blow someone away come from? It’s little story details like that that I, as an audience member, I’m like, “That’s a good telltale sign that he might be a Za’tarc.”

Tor Valenza:
From my memory, it was, again, one of those things where… And again, this is in the episode that you’re captured, and you don’t know what’s happened to you and how the device is implanted and all that stuff. So, I think that’s one of those things where Brad would say, “Don’t hang a lantern on it.” You know? So, you know, one way or another, used to suspend disbelief because you’re unconscious and somehow it’s in there. And, yeah, everybody should probably have– Was there a protocol? I don’t recall, you know, afterwards that everybody’s checked for …

David Read:
Check their fingers.

Tor Valenza:
… when they come back from a mission?

David Read:
I wouldn’t be surprised. They were building all sorts of things onto the post-medical exam after coming back through a Stargate. But I get your point. At a certain point, are you gonna believe the story that we’re telling you or not? “Oh, this one over here is a bridge too far.” Come on, seriously? We’re going through Stargates for crying out loud. I’ve got a few fan questions for you before I let you go.

Tor Valenza:
Sure.

David Read:
Lockwatcher, and I think we touched on this in terms of connecting to a previous show. Lockwatcher says, “When writing an episode, were you provided with certain points that need to be made to connect to future stories not told yet or ones that have just happened? How far ahead from filming were you in writing typical episodes?” So, when you were dealing with the script, was there anything, “OK, we want to at some point here touch on this or this because this is coming later?”

Tor Valenza:
At the beginning of the season, everybody’s in the same room and we’re mapping out the season. We know the arcs. My role as a senior story editor was to do the episodic ones that were not integral to the plot. Coincidentally, “Legacy,” I just came up with an idea of Daniel Goes Crazy. And what if we tie that back to Ma’chello machine? And the guys liked that. And so, you know, that’s very contained. You never hear about Ma’chello’s inventions again or anything else as far as I know. But that was, Tor wrote this other one, “Holiday,” a.k.a. Imbroglio, and, yeah, and then we could, those two could be connected, so why not? And they’re both Daniel-related, so, you know, go for it. But I think the answer to your question is, for me, no, because I was an episodic writer. I was a one-off. As you can see, most of those aren’t related to the seasonal arc of that season. They’re just standalone stuff. And that’s bread and butter for, again, when you’re thinking about production and studios and things like that, they want people to be able to look at, they want some episodes that you can come into and get into it without having to know what happened before. And, you know, as long as you know the general gist of the premise of the show, you don’t have to know that much about, again, the plotting of it. It wasn’t a very serialized thing for me. There was a season arc in every season of where we wanted to be and where we wanted the cliffhanger to be. But for me personally, I wasn’t planning for that.

David Read:
I would think that I would wanna be in a similar place as you in terms of wanting to write standalone stories because there are a million destinations for this thing and a million things that can happen to us. The only things that are gonna happen to us are not just the 10 planets that we’ve visited so far. That doesn’t make sense. The other thing to consider is that this is the late ’90s/early 2000s, and television is switching from more of a standalone, episodic or a serialized, in terms of a soap opera, to what Brad says his agent called a hybrid. So, there’s room to play with both. And that’s cool. PeaceRider, “Were the references to The Wizard of Oz throughout SG-1 a thing that Rick started and the writers went with, or were they all ad libs? Do you remember anything about The Wizard of Oz? Comment, Tor’s background is really amazing and cool.”

Tor Valenza:
Thank you. The Wizard of Oz… I remember, honestly, this was definitely during my time, and I do remember all of us very naturally– I don’t know if Rick came up with it, but I remember in the writers’ room a lot, we’d be referencing Wizard of Oz a lot. And I don’t know why. Maybe just because it’s, again, something that’s common for all of us. But there would be lines that– I’m mushy about being specific here. I remember that there was always a, “We’re not in Kansas anymore” type of, that was a reference a lot. And that’s very natural. You go through the gate, you’re never in Kansas anymore. You’re always going through the Wizard of Oz, and there’s always gonna be a road to things. Every mission is the Yellow Brick Road. And I think, Baum, that whole structure of The Wizard of Oz is just very iconic. It’s the man behind the screen and the Apophis, who’s really behind Apophis in a way? It’s just Goa’uld. That’s really The Wizard of Oz, and the human himself is actually very tame.

David Read:
That’s, that’s true. I also think the four characters also reflect Dorothy and her three companions too very, very well too. Although according to Amanda, Jack liked to be Dorothy, so there’s that. But yeah, I think it works. Tracy, “Do you have a favorite TV series that you like to go back and watch or a specific novel that you like to reread?”

Tor Valenza:
Ooh, boy. Yeah, in terms of series, I’m trying to think of the thing that I– The last one that made me anxious for the next episode always was Game of Thrones to be honest. And–

David Read:
How about that ending?

Tor Valenza:
Well, yeah, exactly. So, I… I think as a writer, that’s the other thing. As a writer, you always go, “You know, I wouldn’t have written it that way.” And it’s great that I can say that with– But I think anybody can say that. There’s fan fiction all the time, and Stargate has plenty of it too. But I think the same thing with… It’s funny, in terms of novels, I’m all over the place and I am, again, because of my podcast in some ways I love audio books now.

David Read:
Yeah. Me too.

Tor Valenza:
That’s kind of how I read these days. And one of the ones that I definitely re-listened to recently, because it’s so magical, is a novel called The Night Circus. So, if anybody’s ever– It’s a magical realism type of thing where you have two apprentices to– It’s hard to describe, but one of the older characters is the father of one of the apprentices, and he’s kind of a demigod in his own way. And the other one is a self-taught god. In other words, there are powers in the universe, and you can– He learned them and he can teach them to others. And so, these two decide that they’re going to bring up these young people, and they’re going to have– These two magicians continue to have contests between the natural abilities and the taught ones. And so, this is their… that last story about– They create a circus that is sort of like Cirque du Soleil, but a magical Cirque du Soleil. And these two keep showing off to each other, but they also fall in love. But it is so well, well-written and magical, and it’s all about imagination and writers and artists. So, it’s hard to describe. And it’s narrated by…

David Read:
Jim Dale.

Tor Valenza:
… Jim Dale.

David Read:
He’s magic in and of himself. He’s so good.

Tor Valenza:
So, if you listen to his Harry Potter versions in the US, again, he brings that same kind of great magical voice to that. So, I definitely– That’s one of those. Stephen King, I’m a big fan of. And one of his that I’m… I just, again, re-listened to was Billy Summers, which is not one of his typical– So, Billy Summers is about a hitman, and he’s hired for a hit. And, of course, something goes wrong.

David Read:
Of course.

Tor Valenza:
And he goes on the run, but… And he gets with them–

David Read:
2021? This is pretty new.

Tor Valenza:
Yeah. And I love that one. I think, in terms of a non-horror– And Stephen King is so, again, prolific and writes plenty of non-horror stuff. This is one of his thriller ideas, and it’s really good. And beyond that, I grew up with ironic stuff like Joseph Heller, so Catch-22. Gosh, The World According to Garp. I’m blanking, honestly.

David Read:
I’m not familiar.

Tor Valenza:
The World According to Garp? Gosh. John…

David Read:
It is…

Tor Valenza:
Cider House Rules…

David Read:
George Roy Hill?

Tor Valenza:
No.

David Read:
No, that’s the director. Written by Steve Tesich? Based on a novel by John Irving.

Tor Valenza:
John Irving.

David Read:
Took me a while to get there, man.

Tor Valenza:
No, terrible. No. Sorry that I’m not remembering the actual author who did it. But he’s all about irony and comedic irony, and that’s– If you listen to my podcast, it’s kinda like the Coen brothers meet solar. That’s what I’m trying to do a lot of times. But it’s also, again, educational about solar and things like that. But it’s just a fun– That’s my sense of things. I hope that people learn something. My first goal is to entertain them.

David Read:
It’s my last question before I let you go: anything new in the arena for Probably True Solar? The link is in the description below, folks, so you can go and check it out. And we’re also …

Tor Valenza:
Please do.

David Read:
… pulling it up here.

Tor Valenza:
I’m trying… So, there’s an 11-episode storyline called The Solar Heist, or How I Got into the Solar Business. So, cross your fingers. I’m trying to get attention for it. My old agent is pitching it around, so we’ll see if something goes there, but it’s a fun one. It has to do with a thief, and a solar developer get together for a heist initially. But really, it’s about our energy transition. So, I think people know that we’ve gotta start going from fossil fuels to clean energy, and it’s happening all around us. David, how many solar installations do you think there are in the US right now?

David Read:
Like major league?

Tor Valenza:
No, in total.

David Read:
On the roof of a house?

Tor Valenza:
On the roof of a house or in a field, anything.

David Read:
I would say 8,000?

Tor Valenza:
Five million.

David Read:
Five million?

Tor Valenza:
Over five million. There is a solar installation throughout the US that’s installed every 45 seconds or so.

David Read:
Wow. Man, was I low.

Tor Valenza:
That’s the statistic. And that’s it. Part of what my podcast is about is that solar’s invisible in film and TV today, even though it’s all around us and growing every day. It’s the number one source of new energy. So, if you’re building a new power plant these days, there’s a 90% chance it’s gonna be solar powered, with some kind of storage now being added. Or wind is something else, but again, solar is the cheapest form of new energy. So, we’re making this transition. Obviously oil companies and fossil fuel companies don’t like this transition, and that’s part of what this Solar Heist storyline is all about. So, it’s definitely a lot of twists and turns. And again, if you like the Coen brothers, it’s part of that. Take a listen. They’re all at the top of that probablytruesolar.com website, and let me know what you think, and please sign up for the newsletter to get future episodes, which I’m working on now.

David Read:
Absolutely. Sit down, strap yourself in, and give yourself two options. Do nothing or write. Yes.

Tor Valenza:
That’s what you gotta do.

David Read:
The description below has the link, so everyone, I recommend checking that out. Tor Valenza, I appreciate you sitting down with me once again, sir, and taking me through some of your Stargate memories. This was a real treat to have you back. It means a lot to have you.

Tor Valenza:
Thanks for having me and thanks for the great questions, and thanks for all the fans again for keeping this alive for so long. I don’t know of a lot of series that have multiple podcasts and things like that dedicated to this. I’m sure Star Trek, some of these around, but that Stargate is in that caliber.

David Read:
And inactive unlike Star Trek and Star Wars.

Tor Valenza:
Fill me in, David. Did I see rumors that another one was gonna go forward on Amazon?

David Read:
MGM, it’s a shingle under Amazon now, is creating something. What it is and when it will be coming out is continually batted about and changing. So, I and many others are like, when GateWorld announces it I’ll check it out. Until then it’s just a rumor because they can’t figure it out right now themselves. But something is coming. It’s just a question of what and when.

Tor Valenza:
I’m looking forward to that. And again, thanks everybody else for continuing to keep the stories alive, and watching ’em, and watching this. I appreciate you, like you said, keeping these behind-the-scenes stories alive as well. It was interesting to see. Again, I unfortunately some of those journals were corrupted but…

David Read:
Isn’t that sad?

Tor Valenza:
… the ones that I did find were interesting to see. I totally forgot about that “Urgo” reference from before. So, I thought that was interesting too.

David Read:
That was a great story to share, and that’s why I love doing this. Because every once in a while, you come out with a nugget that’s like, “Oh, that was a thing, and that grew a little bit into that. “You never know for sure …

Tor Valenza:
You never know.

David Read:
… what you’ll find. Thank you, Tor. I’m gonna go ahead and wrap the show up on my end, but I appreciate you stopping by once again.

Tor Valenza:
OK. Thanks again. Yep, bye.

David Read:
Be well, sir. Bye-bye. Tor Valenza, writer and senior story editor for Stargate SG-1. Really appreciate you guys tuning in for this episode. I’m on a bit of a hiatus this month getting some things taken care of. San Diego Comic Con is gonna be happening next week, and hopefully we’re gonna be sending you some short clips from the convention of all the little things that are happening at that event. And then on Sunday, the 28th at 10:30 in the morning our own panel, the Dial the Gate’s celebration of the 30th anniversary of the Stargate franchise will be taking place. I’ll be posting more details on that very shortly here on our social media. Everyone’s like, “Where’s the information?” It’s available now online, but I will be posting about it here shortly. Next week we have a pre-recorded interview with Torri Higginson, Elizabeth Weir in Stargate Atlantis. That’s gonna be Saturday, July the 27th at 10:00 AM Pacific Time. If you like the episode click Like, click Subscribe. If you wanna see more information about upcoming episodes you can go to dialthegate.com. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. My profound appreciation to my moderators, Antony, he’s been really helping out from behind the scenes. Thank you so much, sir, and Tracy, you both made this episode possible. Moriko Moonlight, first live interview, welcome. Appreciate you tuning in. And that’s what we’ve got for you. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate, and I will see you on the other side.